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BiggerBoat posted:That was just rough. I don't even mind taking shots at liberals but at least be be funny about it. The thing about "conservative comedy" is that the first word is always more important than the second
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Jun 23, 2022 21:50
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-Blackadder- posted:I'm a bit hazy but I feel like during most of Obama's terms Hannity was the king over there. Tucker had his own show too, though I think it initially took him a while to crawl his way back from the curb stomping he got from Jon Stewart. Hannity, O'Reilly, and Beck were the biggest names for a while during Obama. After Tucker left cross-fire he went and started The Daily Caller, and notably was not on FNC that often. That's why it was very surprising when he started doing Fox & Friends. He was independently wealthy and already had his own RWM empire. Wtf was he doing as the 4th wheel on the show with the biggest fuckups and dipshits. He was biding his time, making nice at the network for the slot he has now. And in hindsight, that Crossfire clip is most embarrassing for Jon Stewart because it turned out that, even though we all smugly laughed at the time, Tucker was right and Stewart withered away ineffectually. Edit: Listening to it again, and this kind of call for liberal respectability politics has not aged well at all. This entire thing was a loving dead end. ErIog fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 00:49
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ErIog posted:And in hindsight, that Crossfire clip is most embarrassing for Jon Stewart because it turned out that, even though we all smugly laughed at the time, Tucker was right and Stewart withered away ineffectually.
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Jun 24, 2022 02:25
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You have to contrast that with television and television news commentary especially being dying forms. The most popular show on television isn’t getting a fraction of the viewers that a moderate success would have gotten 15 years ago. I won’t downplay the danger of someone like Carlson having a large audience, but he’s more of a symptom than a cause, insofar as people maybe take the time to care about him after they’ve already been radicalized. He’s not the one driving polo dads to buy 20 guns and scream the n-word.
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Jun 24, 2022 02:37
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Yeah as cable news continues to decline Stewart and Tucker have proven equally bad at adapting to the new world where journalism comes in podcast form. It's just that Tucker is in a better position because the 5 million who watch him every night will probably keep their cable subscriptions until six months after their deaths
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Jun 24, 2022 02:42
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FlamingLiberal posted:There was a good article published a couple of months ago about how Stewart's career has gone since leaving TDS, and it's pretty depressing. The author contrasts it with the whole Crossfire incident and how Tucker is now more popular than ever and essentially the highest profile right-wing media person. Stewart made a massive mistake leaving the Daily Show right on the doorstep of the Trump era. By contrast, Stephen Colbert ended the Colbert Report at the right time on the other side of Escalator Day because his jump to The Late Show gave him a massive platform to try and speak out against shitstains like Trump and Carlson with. Ironically, the only people whose careeres Jon Stewart derailed by chokeslamming Crossfire through a table were the two liberal hosts, Paul Begala and James Carville.
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Jun 24, 2022 03:13
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It seems like the beginning of Trump Era was all that Stewart had prepared for with ages of The Daily Show. Hopping off just before that seems so silly in hindsight especially. It was, to me, his moment and he failed it.
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Jun 24, 2022 03:17
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FlamingLiberal posted:There was a good article published a couple of months ago about how Stewart's career has gone since leaving TDS, and it's pretty depressing. The author contrasts it with the whole Crossfire incident and how Tucker is now more popular than ever and essentially the highest profile right-wing media person. Ok so first things first, Tucker Carlson is a White Supremacist. Period.
Which means, at least in this country, that he's playing the media game on easy mode. In Media, just like in Politics, Race baiting is one of the lowest, most no-effort ways of getting an audience. So I don't really feel the need to be all that impressed with Tucker Carlson's amazing talent for being a racist that gets other racists to watch his racist show. As for Stewart, I personally would've liked for him to have stuck around as well, I think he would have been a critically important voice during the Trump years. While everyone else was enjoying the easy money and low hanging fruit of just endlessly dunking on Trump and his ridiculous behavior, I think Stewart, who was always shrewder than Colbert, would've seen through Trump's buffoonish exterior to the true threat that he was. But instead Stewart made the personal choice to leave the business and travel a different path. And in 2019, after nearly a decade of fierce advocacy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uYpDC3SRpM Jon Stewart-Backed 9/11 First Responders’ Bill Passes After Emotional Congress Speech So it seems to me, and I think probably many others, that Stewart's life, career, and civic contributions after TDS were not depressing or a failure, to be contrasted with successful Nazi, Tucker Carlson, but rather they were pretty loving heroic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-1tEWSuNsk -Blackadder- fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 05:22
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I was always a little peeved by Stewart's "Hey, we're just comedians" spiel every time someone would bring up how TDS was lapping most actual news programs in terms of viewer trust and journalistic integrity. It just struck me as kind of a lovely, spineless "but I don't wanna be responsible" whinging, a complete refusal to step up. I've wondered whether that lead into his retirement, but on the other hand, I don't really give enough of a poo poo about him anymore to find out.
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Jun 24, 2022 06:02
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Agents are GO! posted:I was always a little peeved by Stewart's "Hey, we're just comedians" spiel every time someone would bring up how TDS was lapping most actual news programs in terms of viewer trust and journalistic integrity. It just struck me as kind of a lovely, spineless "but I don't wanna be responsible" whinging, a complete refusal to step up. I always interpreted what he was saying more as a condemnation of the news industry itself than an excuse for him not doing more. It certainly SHOULD have been a warning sign for news outlets that maybe they should do something different, yet here we are.
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Jun 24, 2022 06:37
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Truspeaker posted:I always interpreted what he was saying more as a condemnation of the news industry itself than an excuse for him not doing more. "Hey man, Joe Rogan *says* he's just a dumbass who likes getting high no one of his 200 million podlisteners should take him seriously"
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Jun 24, 2022 09:49
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It also doesn't help that Stewart quite clearly bought into "BOTH SIDES" so heavily that he thought the main problem was that they weren't being polite. Not that they were irreconcilable and the system they existed within was fundamentally rotten to the core.
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Jun 24, 2022 10:36
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-Blackadder- posted:Ok so first things first, Tucker Carlson is a White Supremacist. Period. Nobody's saying Tucker is great. They're just saying his theory of the case was a lot more correct than Stewart's in the long run. Liberals spent like a decade, and still are, being polite to fucksticks like McConnel and Manchin and Boehner. What we got out of it was Trump and blocked SCOTUS noms as the GOP slid further away from caring about respectability. If Democrats had been more militantly partisan and opportunistic we wouldn't be facing a lot of the policy crises we're currently facing. There are levers of power Democrats have just refused to use, even to correct prior GOP abuses of those levers. So what we've gotten is a decline into whatever the GOP wants, with some short breaks when the Dems hold power. This poo poo didn't work in 2004, and it's worked worse every passing year. It's not all Stewart's fault, but he's certainly emblematic of the core problems. FilthyImp posted:It definitely was, but at the same time shrugs off some of the responsibility bestowed upon him. That's the most charitable reading of it, but it's hard not to feel like it's the standard Democratic playbook of nothing ever being anyone's job so you can't hold them responsible. ErIog fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 13:12
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-Blackadder- posted:I just remember this immortal classic. I never saw the clip that went with it. Asking for the brown mustard is correct. Delis are too Jewish for Hannity.
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Jun 24, 2022 13:34
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Also being somewhat fair to Jon Stewart he did specifically retire to spend time on his wife's animal sanctuary.
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Jun 24, 2022 13:42
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I don';t think anyone would've predicted Carlson to be where he is now. Not that long ago he got booed at CPAC because he said the right needed to have serious publications akin to the Times. I'm not sure if he just had the Dinesh meltdown in slow motion but there definitely was a period where he wanted to be taken seriously by the mainstream.
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Jun 24, 2022 13:45
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I'm not sure the Stewart Daily Show line of just playing Fox News clips and laughing at them all day did anything positive. The show started getting really bad once that became standard, every episode content. If anything it might have made the situation worse by not taking it seriously and making people complacent to increasingly insane right-wing media narratives/propaganda.
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Jun 24, 2022 14:02
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Mercury_Storm posted:I'm not sure the Stewart Daily Show line of just playing Fox News clips and laughing at them all day did anything positive. The show started getting really bad once that became standard, every episode content. If anything it might have made the situation worse by not taking it seriously and making people complacent to increasingly insane right-wing media narratives/propaganda. I know many people personally who were born in privileged white neighborhoods and by watching Jon Stewart had their political awakening, ending up as Bernie voters.
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Jun 24, 2022 14:40
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As much as I like Stewart, I think what we're missing here is that there is a good shrewd news-comedian who sees through bullshit, and it's John Oliver on Last Week Tonight. Stewart was funny, and is funny, but suffers from Aaron Sorkin Syndrome, where the only thing required to convince a wrong republican of the truth is a pithy speech or a good bon mot.
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Jun 24, 2022 15:19
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Oh boy https://twitter.com/SCOTUSblog/status/1540336880188801026
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Jun 24, 2022 15:25
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Neito posted:As much as I like Stewart, I think what we're missing here is that there is a good shrewd news-comedian who sees through bullshit, and it's John Oliver on Last Week Tonight. Stewart was funny, and is funny, but suffers from Aaron Sorkin Syndrome, where the only thing required to convince a wrong republican of the truth is a pithy speech or a good bon mot. I always though Cody Johnson and Some More News was better because there was this anger to him that a lot of other people who spun off of Stewart just didn't have, even well into the Trump years. Then again, I mostly had to stop watching all those types of shows because in 2016, it just made me mad/nervous. After Trump won, I basically stopped listening and watching political content for awhile for my mental health.
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Jun 24, 2022 17:43
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litany of gulps posted:Slate actually ran an analysis of Gutfield just the other week: This is really poor analysis and their conclusion--"right wing comedy plods along, growing in stature and influence"--is completely at odds with reality. Comparing Gutfield's nightly ratings to Colbert's is much more apples-to-oranges than they'd like to admit. For one, Colbert faces actual competition in his slot from Kimmel and Fallon (though Fallon isn't as expressly political as Colbert and Kimmel). It also doesn't consider all the other ways people consume these shows outside their nightly broadcasts. Their joke analysis is not good. To be fair, explaining a joke most often robs that joke of its humor, so it's hard to write a joke analysis that convinces the reader of the joke's humor. But their comparison to "Fun With Real Audio" is another poor one. "Fun With Real Audio" showed the illogic of its subjects by letting the audio run unedited over a cartoon that highlighted its oddities. Gutfield's bit tries to build a logical frame for an edited series of non-sequiturs. And I don't think that joke intends to "lay bare the artifice of linguistic convention that underpins all communication." That words are invented malleable things whose meaning comes from their interinanimation with other words is not the intention behind anything coming from the "define woman" crowd. And the idea that right wing comedy is "growing in stature and influence" is simply absurd. Right wing comedy's peak of stature and influence was probably the Blue Collar Comedy Tour. Dennis Miller went from hosting Weekend Update to being a sometimes guest on a few right wing talk shows. Jimmy Kimmel has done everything he can to disavow The Man Show, which was Adam Carolla's peak. As much as he pisses people off doing it, Dave Chapelle's attempts to speak and walk through his confused ideas about trans people aren't right wing comedy. And even if it were, his Netflix specials don't have the reach or influence of his old show. South Park continues to truck along, but it's not the giant it once was, and I'd argue that Trey and Matt's peak of being right-leaning in their humor came long ago with stuff like the Museum of Tolerance episode of South Park and Team America. They're right that Gutfield's absurdism is stylistically closer to Tim and Eric than Jesse Watters and Steven Crowder, but a successful time slot on Fox News, a channel designed to milk every viewer they can out of a single demo and then pass that viewership from show to show isn't a sign of some great "stature and influence".
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Jun 24, 2022 19:46
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Vahakyla posted:I know many people personally who were born in privileged white neighborhoods and by watching Jon Stewart had their political awakening, ending up as Bernie voters. That's great, but it probably could have happened without the DS brainlessly gawking over Fox News clips every day as well, which was my contention with the writing. Jon Oliver or even Cody Johnston do a much better job these days and have the appropriate response to RWM bullshit.
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Jun 24, 2022 19:55
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BigRed0427 posted:I always though Cody Johnson and Some More News was better because there was this anger to him that a lot of other people who spun off of Stewart just didn't have, even well into the Trump years. I agree with all of this. Cody is among the best of them, but political comedy feels like anything but these days. I know it's comforting to try to laugh instead of cry but things are kind of terrifying for a lot of people right now! I try to just barely skim news a couple times a week now and it's still super stressful for me. I can't really enjoy the comedy side of things because it's just getting harder to find the humor in it all, lately. The Supreme Court is going to set us back 100 years for probably the next 100 years.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:01
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BigRed0427 posted:I always though Cody Johnson and Some More News was better because there was this anger to him that a lot of other people who spun off of Stewart just didn't have, even well into the Trump years. Cody Johnson and John Oliver are exceptionally good because while they understand the value of being funny, being funny is secondary to actually communicating the issues and making people aware of the problems and covering the situation. John definitely jokes around more than Cody does, but they're both very clearly incensed by the topic of discussion and want something done about it, and are willing to do what they need to do to communicate the severity and scale of the issue to the viewers. John Stewart and Stephen Colbert's shows are written more like being funny is superior to communicating the issues, and I think that's where it falls flat. We need levity when discussing the horrifying poo poo going on day to day, but too much levity and you're almost mocking/downplaying the situation. In short, hire Cody Johnson as the co-host for John Oliver so we can have the ultimate late night show, and so Cody can get that cash without having to deal with sketchy youtube ad revenue.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:05
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I think The Colbert Report was also potentially problematic because there is no satire with right-wingers, they don't understand it, and they literally thought Colbert was right-wing and was saying things that they agreed with, not mocking them. In that way it comes off similar to The Chapelle Show, where the intent may have been to just have some fun at the time, but ended up as a possible net-negative to society.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:13
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Mercury_Storm posted:I think The Colbert Report was also potentially problematic because there is no satire with right-wingers, they don't understand it, and they literally thought Colbert was right-wing and was saying things that they agreed with, not mocking them. In that way it comes off similar to The Chapelle Show, where the intent may have been to just have some fun at the time, but ended up as a possible net-negative to society. Whenever I think about trying to use subtle satire with regards to conservatives, (especially with things like Colbert or Chapelle) I always end up thinking about this quote from Mother Night: Mother Night by Kurt Vonnegut posted:"And do you know why I don't care now if you were a spy or not?" he said. "You could tell me now that you were a spy, and we would go on talking calmly, just as we're talking now. I would let you wander off to wherever spies go when a war is over. You know why?" he said. I guess context is important, the main character is a spy who was put in place by the allies to give secret messages to those working undercover in Nazi Germany during WWII. His cover was as a blowhard Nazi propagandist.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:20
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Jon Oliver's show is about politics and issues, the weekly format caters to this and gives them time to produce informative segments. The Daily Show and the Colbert Report were not, they are specifically critiques of the media, both directly and through parody/satire. They would pick out clips from the past couple days and riff on the topics of the hour. It doesn't bother me that some people didn't get the joke with Colbert. It wasn't very many people, and if they weren't watching Colbert they'd probably be watching Hannity.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:31
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Mercury_Storm posted:I think The Colbert Report was also potentially problematic because there is no satire with right-wingers, they don't understand it, and they literally thought Colbert was right-wing and was saying things that they agreed with, not mocking them. In that way it comes off similar to The Chapelle Show, where the intent may have been to just have some fun at the time, but ended up as a possible net-negative to society. The other problem is you couldn't even do the Colbert Report now without just being a outright Nazi character.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:35
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Groovelord Neato posted:The other problem is you couldn't even do the Colbert Report now without just being a outright Nazi character. Didn't comedy central try a Alex Jones parody for a bit after the Daily show? What the hell is even after the daily show now?
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Jun 24, 2022 20:52
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BigRed0427 posted:Didn't comedy central try a Alex Jones parody for a bit after the Daily show? The Opposition with Jordan Klepper but it failed because it didn't get as crazy as Jones let alone even crazier which is what it would need to do to succeed.
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Jun 24, 2022 20:56
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It's still a loving crime that The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore was canceled so hard and replaced by Klepper's, The Opposition. Though I will say Klepper's show afterwards, just called Klepper, of him using his whiteness to just walk in and document crazy MAGA poo poo and also get arrested with protesters was far more interesting than his attempt to be a parody of Alex Jones. Now he does segments called "Fingering the Pulse" https://www.cc.com/video/q418eg/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-jordan-klepper-fingers-the-pulse-mississippi-trump-rally Jiro fucked around with this message at 22:15 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 22:12
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I haven't watched TDS in forever; is Trevor Noah as bad as everyone says, or was a lot of that just "He's not Stewart"?
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Jun 24, 2022 22:27
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Neito posted:I haven't watched TDS in forever; is Trevor Noah as bad as everyone says, or was a lot of that just "He's not Stewart"? Edit: Well poo poo that's what happens when I don't pay attention to poo poo for a few years. Ugh Jiro fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 22:32
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Neito posted:I haven't watched TDS in forever; is Trevor Noah as bad as everyone says, or was a lot of that just "He's not Stewart"? He's anti-immigration and he also said a lot of stupid, racist poo poo over the years, which is incredibly depressing considering his background. Here's a funny old video of Erik's that showcases some of his older fuckups. https://youtu.be/Jq7Z9TVkDrI Screaming Idiot fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jun 24, 2022 |
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Jun 24, 2022 22:36
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This discussion made me look up info about The Opposition (which I only watched briefly before cutting off all political videos for my mental health), and wow, I really misremembered a lot about The Daily Show and it's spinoffs post-Trump. It didn't premiere until September 2017, but I had misremembered/assumed that it debuted MUCH closer to the 2016 election, and that the show was announced before the election took place. Like, I thought it was another South Park situation where the show was created and greenlit under the assumption that Hilary was going to win the election, hence the name "The Opposition".
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Jun 24, 2022 23:06
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The Nightly Show with Larry Wilmore was what happened in that time slot post Colbert Report. And it was a really really good loving show that deserved better. Especially with what was happening to Black America at the time.
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Jun 24, 2022 23:13
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The Lone Badger posted:Wait Gutfield is a real thing? I thought people talking about it on SA were, like, doing a bit. it is an SA bit, you just dont have high enough CIA-soro clearence.
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Jun 25, 2022 02:55
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PhazonLink posted:it is an SA bit, you just dont have high enough CIA-soro clearence. the shitpost edits at midnight
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Jun 25, 2022 13:36
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Josef bugman posted:It also doesn't help that Stewart quite clearly bought into "BOTH SIDES" so heavily that he thought the main problem was that they weren't being polite. Not that they were irreconcilable and the system they existed within was fundamentally rotten to the core. The "Rally to Restore Sanity" was an excellent parody of the sort of useless liberal milquetoast 'reasonable politics'. It's just a shame that Stewart didn't realist that's what he was doing.
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Jun 25, 2022 13:58
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