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Neurolimal posted:
Having Ukrainian as one's native language does not mean one doesn't know Russian. Basically everyone is at least bilingual.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:21
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Results of the (still ongoing) UN Human Rights investigation in Ukraine https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1542093072498032640?s=20&t=9CTmOj-lPFB2TZLXcQRJCg The report in question is at this link - it's a PDF: https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/country-reports/situation-human-rights-ukraine-context-armed-attack-russian-federation Note it only covers from the start of the war through May 15th, so it's likely only gotten worse. Point 9 of the executive summary: quote:OHCHR has documented and verified allegations of unlawful killings, including summary executions of civilians in more than 30 settlements in Kyiv, Chernihiv, Kharkiv and Sumy regions, committed while these territories were under the control of Russian armed forces in late February and March. In Bucha alone (Kyiv region) OHCHR documented the unlawful killings, including summary executions, of at least 50 civilians. Most victims were men, but there were also women and children. As the recovery, exhumation and identification of mortal remains is not yet over, the scale is yet to be fully assessed.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:28
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Now I fully understand why everyone is so gung-ho about the HIMARS. If they are given the GPS guided missiles it's basically almost as good as having CAS where they can take out with precision various artillery and strong points while the Russian's cant reliably shoot back. Which means they have to risk their air force to go after the HIMARS or engage in infiltration tactics to try to sneak behind enemy lines and take them out which I think may not be within Russia's capabilities right now. If you draw out their front a little further from railway yards then you can just use intelligence and drone surveillance to spot supply convoys, fire missiles that hit the right spots and effectively interdict Russian supply lines without risking anything.
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Jun 29, 2022 17:31
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Kaal posted:You’re referring to a CBU-97 or its derivative the CBU-105. Introduced in 1992, it’s a sensor-fused weapon that can be guided over a target area, where it releases a number of dividing sub-munitions that target vehicles via laser infrared pattern-matching and fire explosive penetrators down at them. A Joint Firepower F-15E weapons officer kept trying to tell a bunch of us that while impressive, you basically had to have the stars align (weather, target type, air defenses, enemy movement, enemy formation, ROE, etc) for such a weapon to be as amazing and game-changing as the marketing department would have you believe compared to just using more typical bombs or missiles.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:11
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mlmp08 posted:A Joint Firepower F-15E weapons officer kept trying to tell a bunch of us that while impressive, you basically had to have the stars align (weather, target type, air defenses, enemy movement, enemy formation, ROE, etc) for such a weapon to be as amazing and game-changing as the marketing department would have you believe compared to just using more typical bombs or missiles. Yeah I could believe that. It seems like an effective weapon, but how many times are you really going to come across an entire tank company that is tightly clumped together during active fighting? Even the Russians at their most incompetent have mostly been spreading out along roads. And when you do a cost comparison between a $750,000 CBU-105, and a non-sensor-fused $25,000 CBU-103, one starts to question the value of investing in such an expensive munition. The Air Force used them during the invasion of Iraq, and they’d certainly have used them in any Fulda Gap-scenario, but there’d be real sustainment issues with trying to use a weapon like that over multiple months. The enemy would quickly learn to remain spread out, forcing pilots to choose whether to use such weapons on only a handful of armored targets at a time.
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Jun 29, 2022 18:29
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KitConstantine posted:Russian officers excel at coming up with new money-making ventures Wait, is the soldier implying that the 'transferred' people are instead transferred to the afterlife, along with their family?
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Jun 29, 2022 18:29
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I think he's saying they're just moved to a different part of Ukraine that might be just as dangerous
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Jun 29, 2022 18:38
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TipTow posted:I understood your original post but I bet Cinci is quibbling over "Ukrainians who don't [i.e., can't] speak Russian," which those maps don't discuss, only native/primary language. I don't think that really affects your overall point but is probably factually incorrect. The issue with all of these language maps is they always give a false appearance of homogeneity , Kyiv for example is like 50-75% Ukrainian speakers (many of whom also speak Russian daily). Not really captured by just blue. Nor does it capture things like this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarians_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surzhyk FishBulbia fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 19:17
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Neurolimal posted:
Oh my god This is the level of understanding of Ukraine of people who will eagerly tell you about the Holodomor or any eastern European topic
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Jun 29, 2022 19:40
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Kaal posted:You’re referring to a CBU-97 or its derivative the CBU-105. Introduced in 1992, it’s a sensor-fused weapon that can be guided over a target area, where it releases a number of dividing sub-munitions that target vehicles via laser infrared pattern-matching and fire explosive penetrators down at them. Kaal posted:Yeah I could believe that. It seems like an effective weapon, but how many times are you really going to come across an entire tank company that is tightly clumped together during active fighting? Even the Russians at their most incompetent have mostly been spreading out along roads. And when you do a cost comparison between a $750,000 CBU-105, and a non-sensor-fused $25,000 CBU-103, one starts to question the value of investing in such an expensive munition.  Owling Howl posted:Support for the defense of Ukraine is not contingent on reforms. Like no one demanded Ukraine ratify the Istanbul Convention in exchange for X number of howitzers. Support for Ukraine will continue whether they reform or not.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:43
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Re: the language stuff, I read this article a while ago and wondered how accurate it is. It’s very interesting.https://insightonukraine.com/2022/04/07/how-the-war-in-ukraine-is-impacting-language/ Also, all of the Ukrainians I have met (before the war) speak exclusively Russian at home. My (largely baseless) assumption is that Ukrainian is a language spoken by hill bumpkins in private setting and it is viewed as kind of useless/cringey by young people, unfortunately like many less prestigious, dying languages. I am a hill bumpkin so please don’t take offense to that comment if you speak Ukrainian and you are not a hill bumpkin.
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Jun 29, 2022 19:56
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FishBulbia posted:We'll countinue to attempt war crimes but may be also bad at doing them Russia's big 'we weren't trying to blow up the shopping center, we were aiming for the hospital half a block away' energy
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Jun 29, 2022 20:12
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Chill Monster posted:Re: the language stuff, I read this article a while ago and wondered how accurate it is. It’s very interesting.https://insightonukraine.com/2022/04/07/how-the-war-in-ukraine-is-impacting-language/ Well you are probably the most wrong poster yet (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 29, 2022 20:16
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:First GIS result for Рядовой Чмоня Honestly I am happy for Chmonia. He is an LDNR schoolteacher caught on the street and press-ganged into war (like majority of their forces). And surrendered asap. Hopefully they wont recruit him again. Sekenr fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 20:25
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Chill Monster posted:Re: the language stuff, I read this article a while ago and wondered how accurate it is. It’s very interesting.https://insightonukraine.com/2022/04/07/how-the-war-in-ukraine-is-impacting-language/ You're thinking of Ruthenian, which is what I spoke the majority of when I lived in Zakarpattya. More like mountain bumpkins.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:29
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Chill Monster posted:Re: the language stuff, I read this article a while ago and wondered how accurate it is. It’s very interesting.https://insightonukraine.com/2022/04/07/how-the-war-in-ukraine-is-impacting-language/ I read an article a while back that talked about this and it was like you wrote with the hill bumpkin bit, until around 2014. Since then people, especially young people make an effort to learn and speak Ukrainian, especially if they were raised speaking Russian. Not because of some kind of social or political pressure, but to set themselves apart from the Rashists across the border.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:31
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You could go to basically any former ussr country and make your way with Russian, at least before the war. language is not a perfect proxy for identity.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:31
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Why Ukraine wants more HIMARs, explained via .gif https://twitter.com/COUPSURE/status/1542203947615756289?s=20&t=wQw4AN0IaiHUyzXjd5nckA
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Jun 29, 2022 20:37
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Chill Monster posted:My (largely baseless) assumption is that Ukrainian is a language spoken by hill bumpkins in private setting and it is viewed as kind of useless/cringey by young people, unfortunately like many less prestigious, dying languages.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:43
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Kraftwerk posted:Now I fully understand why everyone is so gung-ho about the HIMARS. I wonder how good HIMARS is for counter-artillery. While it's obviously very accurate and very long-range, when you're that far away, any projectile will take a while to fly to the target won't it? How close do you generally have to get to do effective counter-artillery, i.e. to have your shells/rockets/whatever land before the enemy arty scoots away? (A quick google search gave me a very useful answer:  )
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Jun 29, 2022 20:47
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jaete posted:I wonder how good HIMARS is for counter-artillery. While it's obviously very accurate and very long-range, when you're that far away, any projectile will take a while to fly to the target won't it? Rather than counterbattery fire I suspect theyd be going after ammo dumps, supply areas or some behind the lines infrastructure that fuels the artillery barrages.
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Jun 29, 2022 20:49
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mlmp08 posted:This is basically one of those stories NCOs tell, but it’s never really been true and it definitely isn’t now. It was closest to true when M270s were firing unguided cluster munition fire missions in Desert Storm across large defending Iraqi formations and fortifications. Well that depends on a few things. No one HIMARS is going to be capable of grid saturation, so when the “NCOs” are telling that story, they are telling a story about how multiple systems can be used to completely saturate a grid; and the United States Armed Forces can field more than the two that have been given to Ukraine. Also, I beg to differ. There are absolutely times when you might want an entire grid completely “removed.” It all depends on the tactical situation. Final protective fire is a case in point where a grid has to be immediately overwhelmed to save either an infantry formation or an artillery emplacement itself. And, while I never served in the infantry, my guess is that those NCOs commenting about grid removal are basically telling the men under them, if the poo poo gets really bad the pull string make boom guys can completely gently caress up the other guy… What they probably don’t mention is that the friendly infantry will likely me in that same grid.
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Jun 29, 2022 21:00
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Chill Monster posted:Re: the language stuff, I read this article a while ago and wondered how accurate it is. It’s very interesting.https://insightonukraine.com/2022/04/07/how-the-war-in-ukraine-is-impacting-language/ Ehh most of Ukrainian TV has been in Ukranian for as long as I remember so it is far from "country bumpkin" language when you hear it daily. Without doubt, Putin would love to see it go the way of Irish Gaelic. My aunt from Mariupol made concrete effort to learn Ukranian properly when she went for get higher education at Kharkiv university (dont remember for what exactly, exams or final thesis). That was around 15 years ago so requirements only got stricter I believe. fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 21:01
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jaete posted:A quick google search gave me a very useful answer: Are you sure? I can't tell. Sometimes google is as dense as I am.
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Jun 29, 2022 21:02
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Looks like we're approaching a compromise deal re: Kaliningrad. The whole transit mess seems to be an unintended consequence of the fourth sanctions package coupled with insufficient guidance from the Commission; offering belated clarity to defuse the situation now is a very good thing and doesn't undermine the stated intention of the sanctions package since the restriction on goods headed for export will remain in effect. No one needs a pissing contest in the Baltics; especially not an unintended one. https://twitter.com/shashj/status/1542215292084011008?s=20&t=VSbXPEb1mBOccDc4SQWhOg
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Jun 29, 2022 21:04
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jaete posted:I wonder how good HIMARS is for counter-artillery. While it's obviously very accurate and very long-range, when you're that far away, any projectile will take a while to fly to the target won't it? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M270_Multiple_Launch_Rocket_System quote:The GMLRS has a minimum engagement range of 15 km (9.3 mi) and can hit a target out to 70 km (43 mi), impacting at a speed of Mach 2.5. This would be a little less than 1 km/sec. I don't have the faintest idea how to count the total flight time of a rocket from its impact speed, presumably the rocket engine accelerates at least for the first half and then for the last half of flight gravity aids in maintaining speed so it could be close to average speed??? In that case flight time would be around Nenonen fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 21:24
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ZombieLenin posted:Well that depends on a few things. No one HIMARS is going to be capable of grid saturation, so when the “NCOs” are telling that story, they are telling a story about how multiple systems can be used to completely saturate a grid; and the United States Armed Forces can field more than the two that have been given to Ukraine. He was saying they don't delete a grid; even in numbers, against a foe that has dug in even remotely properly. You don't think 60k shells a day does not give a good approximation of what it would be like under that sort of indirect firepower?
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Jun 29, 2022 21:25
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TipTow posted:I understood your original post but I bet Cinci is quibbling over "Ukrainians who don't [i.e., can't] speak Russian," which those maps don't discuss, only native/primary language. I don't think that really affects your overall point but is probably factually incorrect. Yeah russian is widely spoken in pretty much all of ukraine. Obviously it is somewhat less socially popular now post-2014, but if anything it's still remarkably widespread even in light of the first russian invasion. A large majority of Ukranians speak russian.
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Jun 29, 2022 21:34
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https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1542245708111265793 well he's not wrong
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Jun 29, 2022 21:51
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Nenonen posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M270_Multiple_Launch_Rocket_System
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Jun 29, 2022 21:53
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Electric Wrigglies posted:He was saying they don't delete a grid; even in numbers, against a foe that has dug in even remotely properly. You don't think 60k shells a day does not give a good approximation of what it would be like under that sort of indirect firepower? Is that a question? I’ve never been under any sort of artillery fire, let alone saturation fire—which is absolutely a thing. I’m not quite sure it matters how well ‘dug-in’ you are, nor whether or not the incoming fire is rocket fire or fire from tube artillery. The intention of saturation fire is to disrupt as much as it is to destroy, and I’m guessing reducing a grid to rubble does a fine job of disrupting the poo poo out anyone unlucky enough to be under it and still alive when it’s over. Furthermore, as I was saying, there are times when saturation fire is used on forces who are attacking—eg final protective fire—where the men and machines you are shooting at are the opposite of dug in.
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Jun 29, 2022 21:55
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DTurtle posted:Umm, 70 km at 1 km/s takes 70 seconds. Well maybe in your seconds  (luckily nobody noticed that I originally typed that as 1 km/h  )But anyway, we are talking about a few minutes response, perhaps.
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Jun 29, 2022 21:59
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Re: The grid deleting conversation My engineer detachment has dug fighting positions for armored/mechanized units before. "Elbow room" for tanks is ideally 500m between fighting positions. The amount of space involved is staggering in an armored fight and density is relatively low. Maybe 4 tanks and a platoon of infantry in a kilometer grid. Granted, this was wide open terrain and not Ukrainian forests and cities. But precision is definitely the name of the game in either case.
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Jun 29, 2022 21:59
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Remember those videos of like over a dozen tanks congested in an area under artillery fire? Thats the kind of thing sensor fused weapons would be perfect versus. There was a weird sensor-fused artillery deployed thing called Brilliant Anti Tank that was meant to be launched by an MLRS derivative but was cancelled after the Cold War. The guys who coined calling the old M26 the "grid square remover" were wildly optimistic when they decided to call it that Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jun 29, 2022 |
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Jun 29, 2022 22:30
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https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1542252789342011393 Things are looking pretty grim. I don't think there was much question that it would almost certainly fall, but the speed is alarming even after Severodonetsk.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:06
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the holy poopacy posted:https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1542252789342011393 From what I've been reading they basically made the decision to evacuate both at about the same time as they were getting getting pressure from the flanks. I don't think looking at this as an additional rapid fall is quite right.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:14
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the holy poopacy posted:https://twitter.com/JulianRoepcke/status/1542252789342011393 https://news.sky.com/video/ukraine-war-skys-alex-crawford-reports-from-lysychansk-as-russian-troops-close-in-on-city-12642696 They're affecting a slow withdrawal. Warning, the report is amazing but made me want to vomit due to how sad it all was. I can't help but feel I helped do this in my small way by not helping stop it.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:16
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I hope the withdrawal is/was successful. But if they couldn't hold the flanks with Lysychansk as a bulwark, that doesn't bode well for their ability to hold Russia to the new line either. I guess the hope/assumption is that Russia will be focusing on Donetsk next and not as concentrated on pushing further from Luhansk, but if Ukraine also shifts its defensive focus there this is not necessarily an improvement for their prospects in this direction.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:32
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the holy poopacy posted:I hope the withdrawal is/was successful. But if they couldn't hold the flanks with Lysychansk as a bulwark, that doesn't bode well for their ability to hold Russia to the new line either.. The problem is that the Russians didn't attack through Lysychansk. With the river on one side, they could have potentially held out there indefinitely, but the Russians were already across the river to the south and once they pushed through there the fight for the city became hopeless and pointless. Losing the city is very unfortunate, but one large advantage that lines further to the west will have is not having their forces stretched out over a long supply lane that will always be in danger of being cut or struck by bomb or shell. I imagine the defenders are going to notice a big difference with them not being struck from multiple directions.
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Jun 29, 2022 23:52
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Dirt5o8 posted:Re: The grid deleting conversation A mech cavalry troop had a frontage of 10km and typically had 8-12 vehicles on that frontage. A mech company had a frontage of maybe 3-5km, and might put 8 vehicles on that frontage. Mech forces fight very dispersed.
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