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Just Another Lurker posted:Their Red Line: a stream of bloody piss in the snow. much like the Terrance Malik movie, a bunch of dudes wondering why they are getting blowed up and shot all the time
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Jul 6, 2022 20:22
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Willo567 posted:Other than targets in deep Russia, which would be extremely unlikely what advantage would ATACMS have over HIMARS? The Kerch Straight Bridge and Sevastopol come immediately comes to mind. In fact, it would appear that the Russians are getting extremely concerned about the vulnerability of their bridge in particular.
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Jul 6, 2022 20:29
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What seems to be particularly 'not reading the room' is seemingly suggesting that if Russia breaks a future treaty and invades Ukraine again, then the West should react by... doing less than it's doing now.
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Jul 6, 2022 20:33
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ZombieLenin posted:The Kerch Straight Bridge and Sevastopol come immediately comes to mind. The bridge for sure would be a lucrative target and a 300+ km range would allow reaching it. Whether it could be hit and some effect be made is another matter. Hitting a bridge is difficult. And to destroy it you need a big warhead - the bigger, the better. Otherwise you might make a hole in the pavement and a day later it's operational again and you have just wasted a multi-million missile. ATACMS doesn't have a very large warhead, at most 560 kg from what I have read, which is puny against bridges. Sevastopol is a bit difficult in that it houses the Black Sea fleet and possibly nuclear weapons too. It would be an escalation where Russia might respond with nuclear weapons. In either case both are high value point targets that would be shrouded with missile defenses, so actually reaching anything is not guaranteed. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 21:05 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 21:00
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Of course, and people were literally worried Russia was going to invade the Baltic States a few days ago. Again, Russia does not have the capacity to defeat the UA. It cannot fight NATO and their own failures in Ukraine make this perfectly obvious. The Russian Army has broken itself in Donbas to the point it is stripping away troops and equipment from its NATO borders in an attempt to reinforce their Ukraine war. Another thing this shows you is that Putin never felt threatened by NATO. Russia wants Ukraine for completely imperialist reasons. Nenonen posted:Sevastopol is a bit difficult in that it houses the Black Sea fleet and possibly nuclear weapons too. It would be an escalation where Russia might respond with nuclear weapons. Russia will not respond with nuclear weapons, full stop, with anything short of a nuclear attack on Russia. Ukraine has made it perfectly clear that Sevastopol has remained part of Ukraine, and all of the conditional weapons deliveries from the United States where the condition was the weapon would not be used on targets in Russia explicitly excludes Crimea… Because Russia might call it Russia proper, but this is not recognized by anyone except Russian clients. ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 21:28 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 21:21
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ZombieLenin posted:Of course, and people were literally worried Russia was going to invade the Baltic States a few days ago. They are trying to get convicts to fight because nobody wants to join the military. The fact they are even doing this is not a great sign for their ability to field an army.
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Jul 6, 2022 21:24
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They have to keep this thing going..the pop is fully mobilized to be pro war. The outliers have been disappeared. The diehards are separated from the moderates significantly but the moderates fear the state apparatuses grip on culture.
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Jul 6, 2022 21:24
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:They have to keep this thing going..the pop is fully mobilized to be pro war. The outliers have been disappeared. The diehards are separated from the moderates significantly but the moderates fear the state apparatuses grip on culture. I don't think they have that wide a grip, the population isn't pro war, they just don't give a drat. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 21:28
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Nenonen posted:The bridge for sure would be a lucrative target and a 300+ km range would allow reaching it. Whether it could be hit and some effect be made is another matter. Hitting a bridge is difficult. And to destroy it you need a big warhead - the bigger, the better. Otherwise you might make a hole in the pavement and a day later it's operational again and you have just wasted a multi-million missile. ATACMS doesn't have a very large warhead, at most 560 kg from what I have read, which is puny against bridges. ATACMS are straight up ballistic missiles which AD doesn't work on, or only rare and expensive units can (in theory lol). In fact it's US Army doctrine to target AD with them. Bridges are really strong though. ATACMS is the equivalent of a Harpoon anti-ship missile for context.
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Jul 6, 2022 21:33
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:They have to keep this thing going..the pop is fully mobilized to be pro war. The outliers have been disappeared. The diehards are separated from the moderates significantly but the moderates fear the state apparatuses grip on culture. Americans were extremely pro-war until their children started coming back from Iraq missing limbs. Full mobilization means many more dead and maimed Russians
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Jul 6, 2022 21:39
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It's also not all roses for the Ukrainians with the populace left in the east. From what I've seen in BBC etc. reporting from Lysychansk (right before the evac) was that the few people that remained are there because they fear being 'deported' into Ukraine, that they will never come back. They all appeared very wary of the UA and some outright blamed them for everything. Of course it's straight up the die hard believers etc. but they are the only ones who are left it seemed like. It's not exactly an ideal environment for the UA. Victis fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Jul 6, 2022 |
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Jul 6, 2022 21:50
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ZombieLenin posted:Russia will not respond with nuclear weapons, full stop, with anything short of a nuclear attack on Russia. Crimea is one thing, but the Black Sea Fleet base is another. It has been under Russian control forever and it is vital for their operations in the area. It is a big part why Russia invaded the Crimea in the first place. Obviously they should relocate, but they haven't. Sevastopol is a pretty drat good location in many ways.
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Jul 6, 2022 21:59
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CommieGIR posted:They are trying to get convicts to fight because nobody wants to join the military. I am reminded of being in college around 2005 and I was buying some DVDs for Best Buy. Two Marine recruiters were standing in line behind me, and one said, “we really have a problem. Nobody is interested at all. They all keep saying they ‘don’t want to go die in a stupid war…’” That was in the middle of Iraq and Afghanistan, wars that lasted a decade and cost only 7,000 or so American lives total. Russia has lost 30,000 in a few months. I’m not surprised Putin has had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to try and find people to fight his imperialist war; and he knows exactly what would happen if he actually did what he would need to do—full mobilization. He knows he cannot get away with it.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:06
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https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1544688810478510083?s=20&t=a4a5fi4kmaAjtiKQbmmpmQ Ukrainians have some sort of newer SAMs
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Jul 6, 2022 22:09
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CommieGIR posted:https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1544688810478510083?s=20&t=a4a5fi4kmaAjtiKQbmmpmQ It must be those Norwegian NASAMS its gotta be.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:15
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CommieGIR posted:Ukrainians have some sort of newer SAMs I wouldn’t call what’s likely an S-300 that new, but they’re still pretty capable.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:26
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KitConstantine posted:Things you do when you care about other countries Wow, this seems incredibly short-sighted on the Russian regime's part. Relations between Kazakhstan and Russia have been deteriorating since this war started, but this is a sign that things are getting really bad. As goofy as the Western Bloc countries look with their disagreements and the German government acting like goobers, they are nowhere near this bad. The Russian government might damage European markets in the short term and prop up the currently declining price of oil with this move, but they're going to have absolutely no allies after this and just a handful of exploitative, distrustful trading partners. This also seems like it is just going to give the Chinese and Indian government further leverage over the Russian government since they will be able to say "WELL, WE CAN NOW GET OIL FROM KAZAKHSTAN TOO, SO YOU'D BETTER GIVE US AN EVEN BETTER DISCOUNT NOW" The Russian government r a bunch of noobs
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Jul 6, 2022 22:48
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They haven't had to have such a threat since Nazi Germany. The optics of the comparison are difficult at best but I mean they are using the same old tricks over and over again because nothing else is in their pockets. Kill a guy sabotage a plant destroy a polish radio tower etc. Fuel supply to Europe probably isn't going to cause some smashing wave to come down on the Ukraine support.
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Jul 6, 2022 22:57
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T-62M at the front https://twitter.com/UAWeapons/status/1544797070883684353?cxt=HHwWgoCwwYqwnPAqAAAA
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Jul 6, 2022 23:18
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Charlotte Hornets posted:T-62M at the front I'm no sort of professional tankman but I think that tank was unoccupied when it got blowed up.
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Jul 6, 2022 23:33
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Charlotte Hornets posted:T-62M at the front That's a hell of a shot
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Jul 6, 2022 23:37
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I'm no sort of professional tankman but I think that tank was unoccupied when it got blowed up. I'm with you on that one, looks more like an abandoned tank somebody found in the field. But no matter what somebody is having fun with explosives.
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Jul 6, 2022 23:43
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Willo567 posted:https://twitter.com/AP_Europe/status/1544720396343250944 Apparently they are threatening to send 16th century conquistitor Lope Aguirre at us
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Jul 7, 2022 02:21
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Is Russia just printing rubles and counting in the lack of financial reporting to slow the rate of effective inflation? Or are these just steps to return to a centralized command economy?
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Jul 7, 2022 02:21
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Ynglaur posted:Is Russia just printing rubles and counting in the lack of financial reporting to slow the rate of effective inflation? Or are these just steps to return to a centralized command economy? They are getting close to the point where raw materials to make a lot of basic consumer goods are about to run out. Their economy is going to crash and burn before the end of the year. They don't want any statistics or data coming out while they tell their citizens to shut up and be good patriots when they ask why everything sucks.
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Jul 7, 2022 02:27
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Chill Monster posted:Wow, this seems incredibly short-sighted on the Russian regime's part. Relations between Kazakhstan and Russia have been deteriorating since this war started, but this is a sign that things are getting really bad. As goofy as the Western Bloc countries look with their disagreements and the German government acting like goobers, they are nowhere near this bad. The compressor repair delay may be a real issue. Siemens builds a ton of those, and have openly said they're cutting Russia's access to parts and materials off - Russia could be stuck waiting for a widget, or it could have been shut down by software (remotely or not) due to a needed repair and Siemens isn't cooperating on the issue. If that's the case, it would be an example of companies pulling out of Russia having an actual effect.
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Jul 7, 2022 02:40
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Another dawn is breaking in Kyiv, and it's still Ukrainian.   
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Jul 7, 2022 02:55
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:I'm no sort of professional tankman but I think that tank was unoccupied when it got blowed up. Google says it was 91F yesterday in kharkiv , and the T62M is a 60 year old tank with no air conditioning. The hatches being left open doesn't mean the tank is empty. saratoga fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jul 7, 2022 |
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Jul 7, 2022 02:58
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saratoga posted:Google says it was 91F yesterday in kharkiv , and the T62M is a 60 year old tank with no air conditioning. The hatches being left open doesn't mean the tank is empty. Isn’t a lack of air conditioning a common factor in most military vehicles? They’re not exactly luxury cars.
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Jul 7, 2022 03:10
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Kraftwerk posted:Isn’t a lack of air conditioning a common factor in most military vehicles? They’re not exactly luxury cars. Most modern MBTs have Air Conditioning for the obvious reason that they may get sent somewhere hot to fight, and the hotter it is inside, the harder it will be to focus on fighting. But I suspect the T-64s being pulled out of cold storage do not.
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Jul 7, 2022 03:12
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CommieGIR posted:Most modern MBTs have Air Conditioning for the obvious reason that they may get sent somewhere hot to fight, and the hotter it is inside, the harder it will be to focus on fighting. Fair enough, but does the A/C actually work and keep the cabin comfortable?
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Jul 7, 2022 03:17
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Kraftwerk posted:Fair enough, but does the A/C actually work and keep the cabin comfortable? No
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Jul 7, 2022 03:21
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Rigel posted:They are getting close to the point where raw materials to make a lot of basic consumer goods are about to run out. Their economy is going to crash and burn before the end of the year. I'd like to believe this, but China, India, Thailand and the rest of the manufacturing world are happy to substitute. The world will continue to buy Russian energy so they'll have revenue to buy the consumer substitutions. It won't be a healthy economy but it shouldn't be so dire as to "crash and burn".
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Jul 7, 2022 03:29
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CommieGIR posted:Most modern MBTs have Air Conditioning for the obvious reason that they may get sent somewhere hot to fight, and the hotter it is inside, the harder it will be to focus on fighting. I thought the air conditioning had more to do with the NBC protection. Like, if you're going to be bottled up in a tank in a post-nuclear battlefield to keep from getting irradiated, you're going to need something to recirculate the air inside the tank anyway. There's not much difference between a HVAC and an air filtration system.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:03
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https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1544868417521459206 I was kinda pissed at Turkey but apparently these were moved in from a canal/river system, not the Straits. Still kinda pissed at Turkey but I guess this isn't on them.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:03
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Time to smoke some more naval ships. Russia is probably going to have to start pulling border garrisons from more than just Finland to keep it going. Obviously over the last week they've been trying to refresh their btgs and are being required to relegate strategic reserves from their areas to do so. What's next? Will we start seeing the loving police be conscripted to special assignments? The prisons getting cleared out? It will fast become a wild time if Russia has to start pulling security State apparatuses to the front. My theory is that if Russia cannot unwrangle Ukraine they will experience ultra federalization where they're literally border checkpoints between provinces and certain provinces may become depopulated due to lack of rail transport. Especially with the fact that Russian rail transport operates solely off of foreign parts manufacturers. There's been murmurs in Russian news that regional leaders are stocking food and necessary medical supplies in the expectation that they may not be able to get these kinds of things transported to them later on.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:10
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Young Freud posted:I thought the air conditioning had more to do with the NBC protection. Like, if you're going to be bottled up in a tank in a post-nuclear battlefield to keep from getting irradiated, you're going to need something to recirculate the air inside the tank anyway. There's not much difference between a HVAC and an air filtration system. It's not just NBC. Fans and AC are also important to keeping computers and crew from overheating. This can vary from keeping it just cool enough to be tolerable (common in ground vehicles), comfortable-ish (comm suite etc), to downright loving cold (naval warship control centers, complex server centers).
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Jul 7, 2022 04:16
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Russia plans to conduct a naval invasion of Alaska. Which would probably have a more suicidally resistant population than ukraine as there's less to do in Alaska than Ukraine.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:21
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Young Freud posted:I thought the air conditioning had more to do with the NBC protection. Like, if you're going to be bottled up in a tank in a post-nuclear battlefield to keep from getting irradiated, you're going to need something to recirculate the air inside the tank anyway. There's not much difference between a HVAC and an air filtration system. No. All BMP's and tanks etc. have overpressure based NBC protection. But that is a far cry from having air conditioning. During cold war that wasn't given much thought because the main theatres for armoured conflict were thought to be in moderate climates where having a heating system was a bigger issue during winter. I remember that in 1990's it was reported that Australia installed air conditioning in their Leopards. And of course the US wars in Iraq and Afghanistan put focus on the matter. But as for the T-62? Could be abandoned or just temporarily empty or occupied with hatches open, there is nothing in the video that tells us what its previous condition is. Tank crews don't spend 24/7 inside their vehicle.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:29
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I know the Leopard 2A6s that were used by Canada in Afghanistan didn’t have air conditioning so the crew wore cooling vests until A/C could be retrofitted to them. The Leopard 2A7s have the A/C units from the Greek 2A6Ms.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:32
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