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Uranium Phoenix posted:I'm going to address the bolded claim, which I think is completely wrong. I think they were being facetious, OP. But also I love this study and love your analysis
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Jul 6, 2022 18:31
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Going vegan is way more effective
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Jul 6, 2022 20:32
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Enjoy posted:Going vegan is way more effective Do you have any other cards to play?
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Jul 6, 2022 20:48
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CommieGIR posted:Do you have any other cards to play? I don't want to get too far ahead in case I make people feel bad
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Jul 6, 2022 20:54
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how do you know someone is vegan? don't worry, they'll find a way to let you know
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Jul 7, 2022 04:46
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Sir Kodiak posted:You've presented evidence that voting isn't particularly effective, but I can't seem to find the part of your post where you show that something else is more effective. Wouldn't that be a necessary part of an argument that voting is not the singular most effective thing you can do to fight climate change? I don't know why I haven't seen it this way before, but it seems that a cursory look at the prior *looks at other screen* All Of History indicates that revolution gets the goods. Like, it's tautological, but every time we're able to complain "huh that vote didn't work," it's also true that a revolution didn't happen and this goods weren't got.
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Jul 7, 2022 04:56
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:how do you know someone is vegan? https://www.fao.org/publications/card/en/c/CB7033EN/
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Jul 7, 2022 06:59
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The most effective action you can take is [not allowed on this forum].
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Jul 7, 2022 07:05
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Thorn Wishes Talon posted:how do you know someone is vegan? Thanks for posting, sentient Boomer chain email from 2004
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Jul 7, 2022 09:10
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Probably one of the most effective is mandatory superannuation combined with it being portable like it is in Australia. Voting with your life savings does change behaviors! I work in private sector and the big super funds absolutely do challenge and validate measures towards climate, people trafficking, etc if they have got money invested in you. As they are also some of the cheapest sources of capital, it means that companies do go along with the compliance costs that come with this. As both the super fund and the business are after outcomes rather than funding a cottage industry, the compliance activities tends to be sufficient rather than needlessly laborious. Saying that, I take a dim view on anyone that argues against voting. Literally spent more effort than it takes to vote (in a sensible place with straight forward voting like Aus) on arguing against it. And even in Australia you don't have to vote. You are quite legally entitled to show up, get your name marked off the election roll, receive you ballot paper and put it in the box unmarked - job done. Revolutions don't have predictable results. Libya is enjoying a revolution right now. Having the time of its life now that it finally played the secret card that wins at solving problems.
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Jul 7, 2022 09:58
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Electric Wrigglies posted:Probably one of the most effective is mandatory superannuation combined with it being portable like it is in Australia. Voting with your life savings does change behaviors!
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Jul 7, 2022 16:05
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cat botherer posted:I'm not going to say "don't vote," but there is zero chance that the current liberal capitalist system will effectively fight climate change. The scale of changes that need to be done are so enormous that it just about constitutes a revolution in itself - a total change of how we produce, our productive relations, and our lives. The whole "voting" thing isn't going great right now, and it won't improve. Rolling the dice on a revolution is something that makes sense at this point. Barring something more major happening, betting on a revolution is as unlikely as capitalism saving us from itself.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:17
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CommieGIR posted:Barring something more major happening, betting on a revolution is as unlikely as capitalism saving us from itself.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:24
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cat botherer posted:Major things are happening on the political front, but the outcome looks to be more along the lines of fascism. There's good signs of rapidly increasing worker solidarity though. A left revolution is something that would only happen on a longer horizon, probably after things have effectively balkanized. Still, the drop in production from that kind of chaos could be counted as a Pyrrhic victory. Worker solidarity, yes, worker revolution, no.
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Jul 7, 2022 16:41
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As relevant now as ever
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Jul 7, 2022 23:15
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Endjinneer posted:As relevant now as ever ahh that is why voting is so repressive in the US vs other nations. Has there been a revolution that turned anything positive other than the French revolution?
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Jul 8, 2022 00:30
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The French Revolution lead to Napoleon so no.
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Jul 8, 2022 01:13
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Electric Wrigglies posted:ahh that is why voting is so repressive in the US vs other nations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-54c0IdxZWc
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Jul 8, 2022 01:50
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Pretty stunning article about the state of severe drought in the southwest https://www.newyorker.com/news/letter-from-the-southwest/the-water-wars-come-to-the-suburbs Paywall but easily bypassed with 12ft.io Genuinely jokerfied at some of the quotations  And it ends with them assuming the local gov will bail them out quote:“We got two great offers in, and neither of them cared about the water situation. They believe that the county is not going to let five hundred homes next to one of the wealthiest cities go without water.” A big flaming stink fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 03:06
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Electric Wrigglies posted:ahh that is why voting is so repressive in the US vs other nations. The Russian, Chinese (Communist), and Cuban revolutions.
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Jul 8, 2022 03:59
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Electric Wrigglies posted:ahh that is why voting is so repressive in the US vs other nations. point to a country on a map at random it didn't always exist there's quite a few examples of good and bad
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Jul 8, 2022 04:49
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Pobrecito posted:The Russian, Chinese (Communist), and Cuban revolutions. The Russian one was good for ethnic Russians and the Chinese one was good for ethnic Han otherwise a bit mixed. I completely forgot Cuba though so that is on me - if the US was not so ideologically opposed to other influences inside its sphere, it would have jumped the Cuban people much more than it did anyway.
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Jul 8, 2022 13:01
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https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1545345583262695424 absolute and utter insanity from every possible angle.
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Jul 8, 2022 18:06
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1545345583262695424 They are bailing out their coal industry and basically giving up on their emissions goals. Its beyond insane. https://twitter.com/ToreBear/status/1545067778524291072?s=20&t=daNkHe5RBXnxWTtfDRNGqQ The Dutch are asking Germany not to close their last nuclear plants during the gas crisis. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 18:06
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CommieGIR posted:They are bailing out their coal industry and basically giving up on their emissions goals. even from a perspective that doesnt give a poo poo about emissions, decommissioning baseline power generators while they're at risk of political embargo from russia is insane from the basic perspective of not having your citizens freeze to death
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Jul 8, 2022 18:15
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A big flaming stink posted:https://twitter.com/mark_lynas/status/1545345583262695424 Lol Lmao Wrap up all your moderate predictions, we're going for Flambée Earth
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Jul 8, 2022 18:36
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CommieGIR posted:Worker solidarity, yes, worker revolution, no. This is sentiment that has been always expressed by upper-middle class/middle class liberals/moderate socialists and why they have always favored reactionaries. I mean it why you have guys like Toussant Louverture going, hey you guys have to go back into the worst kind of slavery imaginable because it is the only way for Haiti to economically viable or the SPD supporting of the Freikorps blowing away real leftists. Violence is acceptable and as long as it only goes one way and we don't hear about it too much.
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Jul 9, 2022 21:36
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MinutePirateBug posted:This is sentiment that has been always expressed by upper-middle class/middle class liberals/moderate socialists and why they have always favored reactionaries. I mean it why you have guys like Toussant Louverture going, hey you guys have to go back into the worst kind of slavery imaginable because it is the only way for Haiti to economically viable or the SPD supporting of the Freikorps blowing away real leftists. Violence is acceptable and as long as it only goes one way and we don't hear about it too much. No I'm saying that a workers led revolution isn't happening. There's a lot of strikes and Union talk, but nothing in the way of revolution. Maybe hold back on slinging labels around and making assumptions.
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Jul 9, 2022 21:38
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CommieGIR posted:No I'm saying that a workers led revolution isn't happening. There's a lot of strikes and Union talk, but nothing in the way of revolution. I mean I am upper-middle class Liberal, I am just disgusted by myself and my peers.
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Jul 9, 2022 22:13
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Electric Wrigglies posted:Probably one of the most effective is mandatory superannuation combined with it being portable like it is in Australia. Voting with your life savings does change behaviors! There is also the carnation revolution in Portugal in 1974, illiteracy in Portugal was like ~20% before the revolution and material conditions were some of the worse in Europe, also it was beneficial to the people they colonized. Also the South Korean revolution in 1960 was reasonable. Like a big determining factor of how things go for people in 21st-20th century revolutions is what the West does in terms of interference.
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Jul 9, 2022 22:25
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^ I mean, look at the US SCOTUS and other red-aligned state courts disassembling the principle of democratic elections and tell me with a straight face the by US isn't in a slow burn revolution right now.
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Jul 10, 2022 00:05
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I am not sure what the right word for it is, right-wing revolution? counter-revolution? coup d'etat?
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Jul 10, 2022 04:46
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MinutePirateBug posted:I am not sure what the right word for it is, right-wing revolution? counter-revolution? coup d'etat? Very much the latter-most. This isn't a revolution they're planning, no matter how much they convince themselves it is, it's a deliberate subversion of the rule of law in their ideological favor. And the opposition is just letting it happen and putting the onus on ~the people~ to ~just vote~.
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Jul 10, 2022 04:52
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Right-wing revolutions are almost never the will of the majority of the people so yeah it's basically almost always just some form of coup.
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Jul 10, 2022 04:53
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Very much the latter-most. This isn't a revolution they're planning, no matter how much they convince themselves it is, it's a deliberate subversion of the rule of law in their ideological favor. uh, the army is not involved? So it would be closer to a revolution than a coup d'état. It may not be exactly what a lot of people wanted from a revolution but hey, this goes back to my original point that everyone is all for a revolution unless it is them getting put up against the wall to be shot*. Most revolutions don't involve the great majority of people either. I was in Egypt when Mubarak was ousted. Literally watching the smoke rise over Tahir Square from my room on my way to work and could get a coffee from a quiet peaceful street maybe three blocks away and you wouldn't know you were in a country wide revolution (one of my workers got shot dead during it though). The people's outcome from that revolution was to vote in a very conservative fundamental government that then effectively suffered a coup d'état themselves to put the original people (aside from Mubarak himself) back in charge. *Bit like how the survivalists' kid themselves that a nuclear war would not see them dead in the first wave or within the first week or two at most.
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Jul 10, 2022 11:11
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Just watched a festival documentary called Atomic Hope, which is about the fringe pro-nuclear environmental movement. I guess maybe they would want you to be hopeful about the nuclear future, but to me it was just extremely blackpilling that our best hope of avoiding annihilation is only being promoted by a tiny group of super-dweebs who are hated by all the other environmentalist groups. It also ends with some disturbing statistics and a montage of existing nuclear plants being decommissioned and blown up, which yeah left me in the same nihilistic headspace as when I finished The Uninhabitable Earth. Watching this in the same week as the news from Germany has recracked my ping. Doc is worth a watch if/when it gets a wider release tho.
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Jul 10, 2022 13:01
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Electric Wrigglies posted:uh, the army is not involved? So it would be closer to a revolution than a coup d'état. Give it time. January 6th failed only because the rear end in a top hat who "does everything on the cheap" figured he didn't have to pay anyone off. He also treated military leadership like dogshit. Just because it's going slowly and stupidly doesn't mean it's still not a coup.
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Jul 10, 2022 15:49
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cat botherer posted:I'm not going to say "don't vote," but there is zero chance that the current liberal capitalist system will effectively fight climate change. The scale of changes that need to be done are so enormous that it just about constitutes a revolution in itself - a total change of how we produce, our productive relations, and our lives. The whole "voting" thing isn't going great right now, and it won't improve. Rolling the dice on a revolution is something that makes sense at this point.  https://twitter.com/TheStalwart/status/1544253716492177411?s=20&t=38TuBY1gcq3skOFop671gA
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Jul 11, 2022 01:18
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Peak oil may be a ways off, but we do appear to have hit peak fossil financing.
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Jul 11, 2022 01:22
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It does but that's a double edged sword. Poorer countries won't be able for afford energy and it'll make oil and gas executive even more loving rich plus you'll have a bunch of anti-environmentalist politicians elected into office.
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Jul 11, 2022 02:12
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