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BIG HEADLINE posted:Still has to be transported, so I can't imagine it's much better than beef. The transportation part is completely negligible though according to those results 
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Jul 13, 2022 06:31
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In other news, given enough time, we won't have to buy weed killer anymore: https://www.usnews.com/news/health-news/articles/2022-07-12/weed-killer-glyphosate-found-in-most-americans-urine With regards to cattle, remember they require a metric fuckton of water and feed, regardless of which species they are.
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Jul 13, 2022 06:36
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:
It affects all farmers whether they grow 50 or a 1000 acres. It reduces yield per acre which obviously impacts them financially so of course some are upset. While fertlizers are critical and irreplaceable in our food system they are subject to diminishing returns and have environmental costs so for wider society it makes sense to optimize tradeoffs. Agriculture is economically irrelevant in most modern economies and Europe has good food security so chosing to reduce food production to limit environmental damage is a viable option but obviously it's unpleasant for farmers.
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Jul 13, 2022 07:13
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Oracle posted:So where’s bison fall on this burger chart? I think everyone would agree that they healthier and more environmentally sustainable, but establishing numbers is tricky. I've generally seen figures that would establish that bison has about half the CO2E of cows, though the ranges can be inexact. A lot of the virtues and drawbacks of bison are also true of free-range grass-fed cows, and many modern bison herds are actually hybrids. The meat is lower in calories and fat, the use of antibiotics and crowded feedlots is mostly eliminated, and the water and land impact are significantly reduced. But they grow slower, the taste is slightly different, and they still represent a sizable carbon source. https://buffalobillfoldcompany.com/american-bison-cattle-emissions/ https://mrdrscienceteacher.wordpress.com/2019/09/21/bison-vs-cow-greenhouse-gas-emissions/ https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/energy-and-environment/2018/2/2/16934232/holistic-grazing-bison-south-dakota-climate-change BIG HEADLINE posted:With regards to cattle, remember they require a metric fuckton of water and feed, regardless of which species they are. Bison are typically pasture-raised, since they do so well on the plains and resist fencing, so they usually subsist on grass and wheat rather than corn or soy feed. They certainly require lots of food and land, but grass and even hay is much more water and energy efficient than corn and soy.
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Jul 13, 2022 12:04
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Cows can be fed commercially available seaweed supplement to reduce methane by 80%. Evidently the active ingredient has been identified and reproduced in the lab so ideally not too far away from being available cheaply and easily (supplement licks are already common for feedlot and grazed cattle). Such intense feed lotting is quite specific to the US. Places like Australia do use feedlots to finish off cattle increasingly but a lot of cattle are still raised on stations on land unviable for cropping (or even sheep or other animals).
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Jul 13, 2022 13:44
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Welp, pack it in: https://www.washingtonpost.com/us-policy/2022/07/14/manchin-climate-tax-bbb/?utm_source=reddit.com No climate mumbo-jumbo and certainly none of that "taxing the rich" nonsense. You have to love that for want of a spine, the future was lost.
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Jul 15, 2022 07:16
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"I will gladly kill us all Tuesday for a dollar today."
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Jul 15, 2022 13:10
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Any sort of effective and non-regulatory-captured climate change legislation was doomed the moment Biden won the primary. I’m kind of curious when the American Empire will overtly go full-on “if you want to continue to drive SUVs then vote to for me to take the rest of the world’s resources for ourselves!” style gently caress-you, got-mine accelerationism.
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Jul 17, 2022 23:23
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jeeves posted:Any sort of effective and non-regulatory-captured climate change legislation was doomed the moment Biden won the primary. SUVs didn't exist in 1776 but otherwise 
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Jul 17, 2022 23:31
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Sharkie posted:SUVs didn't exist in 1776 but otherwise
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Jul 18, 2022 02:23
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They drove muscle cars back then, it’s well documented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqWxgCZ1TQE
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Jul 18, 2022 10:42
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jeeves posted:I’m kind of curious when the American Empire will overtly go full-on “if you want to continue to drive SUVs then vote to for me to take the rest of the world’s resources for ourselves!” style gently caress-you, got-mine accelerationism.
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Jul 18, 2022 15:24
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New tug builds are going hybrid and will be zero emissions on some services (local moves) DE with gensetsets with Zdrives and big LI batteries / electric motors. Watching a presentation on it now. Also all tugs need COI from USCG starting... today.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:23
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Looks like the push is zero emissions for short seas shipping think tugs and ferry. IMO looking for all shipping to be 50% at 2050. They probably actually have regulatory ability to make that happen too.
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Jul 19, 2022 20:34
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We need nuclear tugs. Like Russias nuclear icebreakers. I am only half kidding
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Jul 20, 2022 22:11
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Ship to shore nuclear plants
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Jul 21, 2022 04:33
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CommieGIR posted:We need nuclear tugs. Like Russias nuclear icebreakers. That reminds me that I need to keep checking to see if the NS Savannah has tours again. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYj4F_cyiJI
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Jul 21, 2022 05:42
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BIG HEADLINE posted:That reminds me that I need to keep checking to see if the NS Savannah has tours again. It was a mess the last time I was onboard in 08.
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Jul 21, 2022 07:12
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https://twitter.com/s00nd/status/1549968904163819521 Its quite amazing to me that we still have people who go all in for the 'Climate Change isn't real' bullshit in 2022 and can get tons of support with seemingly no pushback despite everything without even giving the slightest backing towards their position at all. Edit: while I'm here I wanted to bring up a character named Michael Shellenberger, he's one of the most malignant pundits I've ever encountered and he never seems to be properly called out on anything. He's claimed to be an environmentalist but for the last 20 years the only thing he seems to do is present himself as some maverick truth teller who's telling you what they don't want you to know about climate change, one of the worst lukewarmers I can think of anywhere, desmog has an extensive list of the moronic positions he's taken over the years: https://www.desmog.com/michael-shellenberger/ quote:The following is from an article Shellenberger originally published at Forbes, \32 which was later retracted (in Shellenberger’s words, “Censored”). He later republished the article at Environmental Progress33 and elsewhere. He wrote:34 He's made it his schtick for years to write books an articles complaining about 'alarmism' on behalf of environmentalists, and he constantly tries to present it as if he's a guy who used to be one of those crazy environmentalists but grew some sense when he saw that they were all just too crazy! Sorry for misleading you, but I cried wolf on the global dangers of climate change The Death of Environmentalism: Global Warming in a Post-Environmental World Apocalypse Never: Why Environmental Alarmism Hurts Us All A lot his work has been torn apart by actual scientists of course who point out that he endlessly cherry picks and simplifies the topic to sell his narrative: https://climatefeedback.org/evaluat...climate-change/ https://www.currentaffairs.org/2020/09/the-last-ditch-talking-point-on-climate-change There's not a single environmentally related topic where he won't complain about the pernicious influence of some sort of green cabal, and he jumps on every possible opportunity to push such talking points whether California wildfires: https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/1305968124852711424 Dutch farmers: https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/1547029721430589447 Or the Sri Lankan crisis where of course he has no interest in examining the situation in any depth other than the organic farming mandate which he blames on western environmentalists and not much else: https://michaelshellenberger.substack.com/p/green-dogma-behind-fall-of-sri-lanka?utm_medium=email He's very pro-nuclear, which is commendable, but like seemingly every pro-nuclear guy I seem to encounter he's rabidly opposed to any other renewable energy sources and seemingly any efforts to reduce overall energy consumption or really take any serious environmental stance: https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/1548910544345829378 https://twitter.com/ShellenbergerMD/status/1550213592359657476 He also ran for governor of California and failed amusingly recently, his whole campaign was based on California's homelessness crisis which he, predictably, decided had nothing to do with the rancid inequality in the state with entrenched interests doing all that they can to fight any efforts to make wider, cheaper housing, oh no, what instead he focused on is the idea that all homeless people are dangerous drug addicts and drugs are why they are homeless, so he basically promised a punitive war on drugs and the homeless to sort out the problem all the while railing against 'progressive wokeness' which he blames for the situation for not taking a hardline enough stance against homeless people and drugs: https://www.sfchronicle.com/opinion/openforum/article/Michael-Shellenberger-s-narrative-of-California-17172493.php He even wrote a book complaining about ' Why Progressives Ruin Cities' called San Fransicko. Perhaps unsurprisingly he's been on Rogan multiple times to peddle his bullshit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hatkGFTPyUE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsTDA2DT72k I can't overstate how much I hate this lump of poo poo. It would almost be better if he was just an out and proud denialist but there's a particularly insidious quality to him where he touches upon lots of genuine problems, and even solutions wrt nuclear energy, but always twists it to present this bullshit lukewarmist perspective where climate change isn't really a problem despite what those crazy hippies will tell you, we'll just let the free market innovate our way out of any potential problems and besides the effects won't be near as bad as you've been told by those apocalyptic nuts. So don't listen to the woke mob and vote for me as governor and we'll brutalize the homeless and let whatever happens to the environment in an unrestrained hyper capitalist environment happen! Like I said, just the lowest form of scum, I really wish there were more groups that specifically called out the poo poo he's been peddling because he has tons of followers, especially on places like twitter, and he never gets any significant blowback from any of the crap he's pushing. khwarezm fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jul 22, 2022 |
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Jul 22, 2022 12:21
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Guy appears to be an opponent of basic protections like masking in schools, so it really is true that there's idiots in every field and level of education.
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Jul 22, 2022 13:43
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That, or he's also got an MA in Gettin' Paid from the Frito Bandito School of "I Like Money." Those aren't contrarian tweets, they're digital semaphore for "CALL ME, USE ME, I WILL HELP SELL YOUR BULLSHIT."
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Jul 23, 2022 00:30
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Azy88IiVqU
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Jul 23, 2022 22:36
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khwarezm posted:Like I said, just the lowest form of scum, I really wish there were more groups that specifically called out the poo poo he's been peddling because he has tons of followers, especially on places like twitter, and he never gets any significant blowback from any of the crap he's pushing. It's weird how social media has made some bizarre real world characters that are likely funded by anti-climate groups. Alex Epstein is another who's a bit clever with arguments but fundamentally wrong.
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Jul 24, 2022 21:26
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https://twitter.com/MadiHilly/status/1550148385931513856 The replies to this thread are some of the most frustrating poo poo I have ever seen. The number of people claiming nuclear plants are cost prohibitive makes me want to thrash them Motherfuckers, if we keep making decisions on power generation based on cost we are going to boil ourselves alive
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Jul 25, 2022 00:54
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Don't tell her about the Hanford Site.
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Jul 25, 2022 02:32
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The issue is that intelligence is for some people a blanket identity. If a person is intelligent, they are always intelligent, and are always wise, knowledgable, and insightful in all contexts. And what they fail to understand is that there are multiple intelligence, and true wisdom comes from being a critical thinker who is always learning and questioning, especially themselves. It's why you can have Jordan Peterson a mediocre psych professor bully a trans student, suddenly become famous, and claim that the very idea of the climate doesn't exist despite that clearly not being true and him clearly having no understanding of climate, and there are people who listen to him because he's a professor!
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Jul 25, 2022 03:33
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Freakazoid_ posted:Don't tell her about the Hanford Site. Completely different from Nuclear Power. If you want a better example of poor environmental management tied to nuclear try the Navajo Uranium mines. Hanford was almost entirely nuclear weapons production, and has nothing to do with spent nuclear fuel
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Jul 25, 2022 04:25
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Timeless Appeal posted:The issue is that intelligence is for some people a blanket identity. If a person is intelligent, they are always intelligent, and are always wise, knowledgable, and insightful in all contexts. And what they fail to understand is that there are multiple intelligence, and true wisdom comes from being a critical thinker who is always learning and questioning, especially themselves. Yeah the error of "I am good at x which society values highly means I am smart, and smart means I am good at everything, hence I should bring my brilliance to y." is an absolute classic. STEM-lords (of whom I am sadly counted) are a very common one for this, I'd guess because they've got skills in an area which society calls "smart" and then internalise that as general ability. Luckily I'm garbage at everything, including the things that I'm good at, so I tend to make that mistake less.
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Jul 25, 2022 05:01
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The Hanford disaster stems from taking essentially zero responsibility whatsoever. It's the fossil fuel stand-in of nuclear history.
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Jul 25, 2022 05:31
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Timeless Appeal posted:The issue is that intelligence is for some people a blanket identity. If a person is intelligent, they are always intelligent, and are always wise, knowledgable, and insightful in all contexts. And what they fail to understand is that there are multiple intelligence, and true wisdom comes from being a critical thinker who is always learning and questioning, especially themselves. Hence the saying "Take an expert outside their field and you are talking to a loving idiot". Proven time and time again by successful medical doctors killing themselves in light aircraft crashes in the US.
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Jul 25, 2022 08:20
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hooman posted:Yeah the error of "I am good at x which society values highly means I am smart, and smart means I am good at everything, hence I should bring my brilliance to y." is an absolute classic. STEM-lords (of whom I am sadly counted) are a very common one for this, I'd guess because they've got skills in an area which society calls "smart" and then internalise that as general ability. If this is about my Shellenberger post, I think it goes further than just some guy who overestimates his smarts in one field compared to another and not really being aware of the full truth, its a lot more sinister, he's trying to push a damaging and extremely misleading position because it's advantageous to him and wherever he's likely getting a lot of his support from, and I think from what I've read about him he has enough awareness about the intricacies of climate change issues that he almost certainly knows the counter arguments but just ignores them to sell his specific brand of snake oil. That's why he pisses me off more than almost any other lukewarmist or denialist out there, I think he does know the truth about the research and knows it well enough that he also knows how to twist and bend the figures to shore up his position with people who don't have the time or background to fully inform themselves, like the responses to his crap from actual scientists and such are often very technical and couched in careful language because Shellenberger throws in just enough good faith reasoning that the responses often treat him like a good faith actor to some degree, when he most certainly is not(though there has been less and less tolerance for his nonsense as time goes on). Its why a lot of his rhetoric revolves around the idea that 'I used to be part of the crazy environmentalist cult, I apologize on their behalf for fear mongering about the end of the human species!', he actually has spent a lot of time attaching himself to soft environmentalist movements where the usual MO was that the right application of technology through the free market would solve everything for us, its why he has his one good quality of nuclear evangelism, that's a common position among right leaning libertarian solutions to the Climate crisis. Bjorn Lomborg is also like this, the ones who are more informed on these issues and exploit that knowledge to cherry pick the right stats and mislead people in a way that other scientists have to go into some detail that's often lost on the common man to debunk are by far the worst. Its a lot easier for them to go on Rogan or make an inflammatory tweet about how crazy environmentalists are lying about California wildfires which will be heard by a million people and get tens of thousands of likes on Twitter than it is for their opponents to debunk this stuff in a way that people will actually see it. Its notable that in both cases they adopt the persona of being these maverick truth tellers who are taking on the environmentalist establishment who's dogma's have jeopardized the science and destroyed countries, and they are the only adults left in the room to tell you the truth.
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Jul 25, 2022 11:36
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The key to creating a cult of misinformation online is realizing that you don't need to show up for your detractors. Show up for your nutters. Get debunked? Ghost that fork of the conversation. Articles call you on your poo poo? Ignore it, double down. Followers looking for certainty and affirmation of their current beliefs will follow a charlatan whose copium relieves their cognitive dissonance, especially if--as above--someone knows enough about a subject matter to know where to bend it to present convincing lies. Social media didn't introduce a new desire for nutter cope; people have always wanted it. All social media has done is create spaces where nuts can get their nutterbutter without shaming themselves before their local community, then grow those shameless fascistic spaces through engagement-driven marketing until the nutterbutter and copium is mainstream. Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jul 25, 2022 |
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Jul 25, 2022 19:01
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It turns out that telling generations of people who are plainly at fault for destroying the planet "Actually, it's not real, and if it was, you're not at fault" is really popular with those very people!
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Jul 25, 2022 19:08
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Potato Salad posted:It turns out that telling generations of people who are plainly at fault for destroying the planet "Actually, it's not real, and if it was, you're not at fault" is really popular with those very people! "Nooo, you didn't doom your future generations with your sloth, greed, and inaction! Die peacefully, knowing that your kids (and theirs) will fix it! Even though 'it' isn't happening! The ungrateful little shits need some character building anyway even if we're/you're wrong!"
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Jul 25, 2022 21:00
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BIG HEADLINE posted:"Nooo, you didn't doom your future generations with your sloth, greed, and inaction! Die peacefully, knowing that your kids (and theirs) will fix it! Even though 'it' isn't happening! The ungrateful little shits need some character building anyway even if we're/you're wrong!" I tend to look at intersectional theory in a post hoc lens too: the modern conservative movement is as much a plea for absolution as it is the dying hand of hirearchies playing grab-rear end for power.
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Jul 25, 2022 21:06
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https://twitter.com/AlexSteffen/status/1551701032945692673?s=20&t=E59Js4tMQUI3t_4Nu6DdFA
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Jul 26, 2022 01:05
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khwarezm posted:If this is about my Shellenberger post, I think it goes further than just some guy who overestimates his smarts in one field compared to another and not really being aware of the full truth, its a lot more sinister, he's trying to push a damaging and extremely misleading position because it's advantageous to him and wherever he's likely getting a lot of his support from, and I think from what I've read about him he has enough awareness about the intricacies of climate change issues that he almost certainly knows the counter arguments but just ignores them to sell his specific brand of snake oil. My post wasn't about Shellenberger specifically but about people more generally, but the explainer for him and Lomborg is appreciated. My alma mater tried to open the Bjorn Lomborg climate institute and got shouted out by literally everyone until they backed down. That institution is kind of notorious for being nothing more than money chasing elitist assholes though so it wasn't a great shock.
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Jul 27, 2022 06:37
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grass toucher posted:https://twitter.com/AlexSteffen/status/1551701032945692673?s=20&t=E59Js4tMQUI3t_4Nu6DdFA Shucks
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Jul 27, 2022 07:28
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Here's a better chart, https://twitter.com/embrein/status/1551691574534217729?s=20&t=z-CjimBNeWsYpHj1TU9_lA
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Jul 28, 2022 00:05
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I’m sorry but isn’t that basically someone sincerely recreating this cartoon?  Industrial society has a lot of dividends, but if they’re generated through unsustainable activity (and doled out incredibly inequitably across the population of the world) then…. what good has really been done? Bluntly to the point of your linked example, aren’t we just keeping all those (affluent) kids alive through childhood just to pitch them into the inferno of climate change with all its attendant food insecurity, political instability, disasters, violence, crumbling civil society etc.?
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Jul 28, 2022 19:00
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