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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJq-_3kvJYQ Some of the crossovers in this are fairly funny.
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Jul 19, 2022 00:50
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chiasaur11 posted:They do talk about intimidation tactics, though. They have Sumeragi give a little speech about why the A-Laws attacked. It's just really stupid intimidation tactics, since it shows their hand without presenting an overwhelming advantage.
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Jul 19, 2022 01:10
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NikkolasKing posted:This should be the universal opinion. I see people say "00 S2 wasn't so bad" then they immediately concede the undeniable fact that it ruined all the characters and I'm like "why isn't it total garbage that should be ignored again?" Creating a strawman to rail against is stupid as gently caress.
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Jul 19, 2022 01:15
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Also my next plan is to get back into G, which I got a couple episodes into before 00 came along. I'm also beginning a watchalong of 0079 on Saturday as part of my weekly Synchtube and kinda wanna watch the Unicorn OVAs at some point as opposed to 0093 on Toonami now that I have UC context.
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Jul 19, 2022 01:22
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Smart choices all around.
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Jul 19, 2022 01:33
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00S2 and Destiny are on the same level of bad for me but I like season 1 of 00 a lot more then SEED so 00S2 annoys me more. Both have good suits though
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Jul 19, 2022 01:33
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Gaius Marius posted:I just don't understand why you think the ALaws need to be holding anything back. The Gadessa isn't their magic bullet wonder weapon that they can only operate in the most desperate of circumstance. It's just another suit, there's no irony to be had The Gadessa is, as far as the show has indicated, the most advanced prototype the A-Laws have ready for deployment. I'm sure they'll pull more and more advanced Mobile Suits straight out of their collective asses, because that's Gundam 00 season 2 all over, but for now it's the best counter they have for the Gundams. (I'd say "other than raw numbers", but season 2 doesn't seem to think much of that so far.) This puts it in a similar role to the Gundams in season 1, a super prototype with unknown capabilities with an outsized impact on the battlefield. In season 1, it was repeatedly emphasized how Celestial Being wanted to keep as much secret about the Gundams as possible. Operation time, thrust power, environmental conditions they could operate in, everything. When a member of Celestial Being revealed some new ability, they were either in a desperate situation, or were punished for tipping their hand, because if your enemies, say, know you have a range of 2 miles, then they'll keep their ammunition depots three miles away so you can't blow them up. Meanwhile, the A-Laws just fly up, go "We have a MS with a beam shield and boosters allowing this speed!" and gently caress off without doing any damage. Information control is a key part of war, and they just surrendered the specs for their new machine without a fight. (The irony is that Celestial Being spent season 1 being the people pulling out new super robot tricks weekly, and now someone's doing the same thing to them. Not a hilarious irony or anything, but better than rain on your wedding day.)
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Jul 19, 2022 02:46
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RevolverDivider posted:00S2 and Destiny are on the same level of bad for me but I like season 1 of 00 a lot more then SEED so 00S2 annoys me more. Both have good suits though Destiny almost actively makes SEED worse, Whereas 00 S2 is just a meh season compared to the setup from s1. 00S2 > Fighters TRY > Destiny; and for what it is worth I am actually pretty fond of SEED.
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Jul 19, 2022 03:08
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The situations aren't really comparable. Celestial Being in S1 was obsessed with operational security and concealing what their suits and weapons could do because they were fighting literally the entire world with four people and a support staff and their only chance of not dying was by keeping the details and capabilities of their super technology secret. The very nature of their objectives and the vastness of the opposition meant that even if they won a battle convincingly, their enemies would have more than enough resources and remaining force to study the aftermath and develop countermeasures. On the same note, they had enormously limited supplies and effectively no replacement capability, so even a single unit permanently lost would be an incalculably devastating blow to their combat power and overall mission objective. The A-LAWS are effectively the world government, with functionally infinite resources. Their only credible opposition is Celestial Being, which is a tiny terrorist organization with a clear and simple lose condition. If A-LAWS develops a new wunderwaffen and throws it at CB, they don't really care about it showing off its specs, because if they beat CB in a fight that's the entire ball game and the war is over. Similarly, it's not a big deal if they lose the unit or reveal its specs, because they have a research and development and replacement pipeline that CB cannot match. If CB scopes out the Gadessa and discovers its weaknesses and limitations or destroys it, oh well, A-LAWS can easily afford to develop and build a new and better suit based on that information. As an example, let's say A-LAWS develops five incredibly expensive monster of the weak mobile suits and throws them at CB and the first four of them blow up and die without accomplishing anything but the last one of them manages to cripple the Cherudim or seriously damage the Ptolemaios before it also blows up and dies. That's an enormous win for A-LAWS. Kanos fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jul 19, 2022 |
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Jul 19, 2022 03:10
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ImpAtom posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJq-_3kvJYQ Some of the crossovers in this are fairly funny. It just occurred to me, they absolutely could and should put Re Rise in these crossover games.
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Jul 19, 2022 03:21
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Zedd posted:Destiny almost actively makes SEED worse, Whereas 00 S2 is just a meh season compared to the setup from s1. I really liked the political setup at the start of Destiny. The war ended inconclusively so everyone knows it could kick off again at any point. There are factions on both sides who are like, "we went through all of that for nothing?" And the armament limits imposed by the peace treaty just spurred more technological innovation since there was a limit on the number of MS each side could have they wanted those MS to be as powerful as possible. That all felt like a really natural development after the end of SEED
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Jul 19, 2022 03:26
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Gripweed posted:I really liked the political setup at the start of Destiny. The war ended inconclusively so everyone knows it could kick off again at any point. There are factions on both sides who are like, "we went through all of that for nothing?" And the armament limits imposed by the peace treaty just spurred more technological innovation since there was a limit on the number of MS each side could have they wanted those MS to be as powerful as possible. That all felt like a really natural development after the end of SEED The beginning arc of Destiny is legit very good Gundam stuff and is well executed, which honestly makes the show's slow slide into poo poo even more painful.
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Jul 19, 2022 03:34
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Kanos posted:The beginning arc of Destiny is legit very good Gundam stuff and is well executed, which honestly makes the show's slow slide into poo poo even more painful. Which is exactly why I take so much more issues with Destiny. It had so much potential.
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Jul 19, 2022 03:41
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Kanos posted:The situations aren't really comparable. Yes, but that's why they shouldn't be using them as monsters of the week. With proper support, the Gadessa could have destroyed Celestial Being. Instead, it showed its limits in a context where it couldn't secure the kill, making it less likely to do damage in the future. Similarly, if they'd waited to deploy the Trilobites, six of them could have probably taken down the Ptolemy. Instead, the first one taught Celestial Being their limits, so they could be used for an escape route. The A-Laws are conducting this war in the most quarter-assed way imaginable, which means they're losing billions of dollars in equipment for no gains. And the A-Laws don't have unlimited resources, although that changes by the episode because they're written so poorly. One week, they can get six Trilobites no problem. The next, they're dependent on the Halevy family fortune to get anything done. Even if they were the whole of Earth's military, rather than a variably-sized sub-branch, they'd have resource limits. Super prototypes (in theory) take time and money to develop, money that could go to more cruisers, or better training programs, or any number of other things. Best to try to use them to actually accomplish something, rather than throw it away on going "Neiner neiner!" In other words, they're not fighting like an army. They're fighting like Doctor Hell.
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Jul 19, 2022 03:43
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They do have unlimited resources, even if they do have a few weird throwaway lines about Louise's donations(which make almost no sense because even a very rich multi-national conglomerate isn't going to be able to donate enough money to make a noticeable change in the budget of a highly militarized world government with the power of taxation). They build multiple death star superlaser terror weapons and an entire fleet of suicide mobile suits that have tau drives. It's not even a Titans situation, where the Titans are still actually subordinate to the real Federation government. The A-LAWS are 100% running the show and the only reason the non A-LAWS forces still exist is because there hasn't been a real reason to absorb them or disband them yet. The non-A-LAWS forces are still using Tierens and poo poo.
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Jul 19, 2022 04:06
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Kanos posted:They do have unlimited resources, even if they do have a few weird throwaway lines about Louise's donations(which make almost no sense because even a very rich multi-national conglomerate isn't going to be able to donate enough money to make a noticeable change in the budget of a highly militarized world government with the power of taxation). They build multiple death star superlaser terror weapons and an entire fleet of suicide mobile suits that have tau drives. Yeah, that's not making it look any better. The Titans have infinite resources except when they don't, they can't spare a single Mobile Suit to recover their only living super soldier, but they also don't notice the loss of one of their super soldier, they make note of how expensive developing new machines is before fielding six of the things, they have an Innovator as a pilot before making the decision they have to go to the Innovators for help... They're just as strong or as weak as they need to be for a given scene, and that makes the whole show worse.
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Jul 19, 2022 05:05
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I really am suprised that people think 00 s2 and destiny are the same level of bad. S2 of 00 is okay at worst. Destiny is so infuratingly bad. The fights are reused animation garbage, a ton of characters behave inconsistently.The show wants you to root for a bunch of hypocritical morons. It's on a completely different level.
Monaghan fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 19, 2022 |
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Jul 19, 2022 05:50
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Monaghan posted:I really am suprised that people thing 00 s2 and drstiny are the same level of bad. S2 of 00 is okay at worst. Destiny is so infuratingly bad. The fights are reused animation garbage, a ton of characters behave inconsistently.The show wants you to root for a bunch of hypocritical morons. It's on a completely different level. Yeah I'm way kinder on Destiny than the majority of people and I still wouldn't put 00S2 in the same solar system of lovely as Destiny gets. 00S2 is absolutely disappointing and formulaic compared to S1, but it executes its formula passably well, manages to have a couple of decent character arcs, has a cast of villains that are fun to see get punked, and has a very solid finale with some really good fight choreography.
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Jul 19, 2022 10:59
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Iirc, the Gadessa is pretty explicitly not an ALaws designed suit, its manufactured directly by Ribbons on the Celestial Being mothership independently from ALaws, who build all their poo poo from reverse engineered tech they got from the kyrios and the initial squads of GN-X Corner gave them
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Jul 19, 2022 14:49
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Gaius Marius posted:Creating a strawman to rail against is stupid as gently caress. Monaghan posted:S2 of 00 is okay
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Jul 19, 2022 17:58
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:Iirc, the Gadessa is pretty explicitly not an ALaws designed suit, its manufactured directly by Ribbons on the Celestial Being mothership independently from ALaws, who build all their poo poo from reverse engineered tech they got from the kyrios and the initial squads of GN-X Corner gave them Yeah it's part of the whole "Licensed Officer" that iirc are only the Innovade suits and Graham's Mr Bushido midlife crisis are mostly part of.
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Jul 20, 2022 01:32
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https://bandai-hobby.net/item/5180/ Figure-Rise Miorine. She comes with what looks like a trowel and a watering can, so maybe she likes to tend to plants
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Jul 20, 2022 03:45
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Waffleman_ posted:https://bandai-hobby.net/item/5180/ Is it just me or does the engineering on the figure feel worse than Suletta or Valdilena from 86?
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Jul 20, 2022 03:59
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Zedd posted:Yeah it's part of the whole "Licensed Officer" that iirc are only the Innovade suits and Graham's Mr Bushido midlife crisis are mostly part of. The whole License thing is such a childishly-dumb rear end-pull of a concept too. "Yeah this character can do whatever they want, and be where we want them for the plot, because we wrote it so they have a license to literally do anything they want to.
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Jul 20, 2022 11:41
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Eh, it's basically a special forces agent with enough pull that regular forces can't push him around. It's James Bond with his license to kill.
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Jul 20, 2022 12:16
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Zedd posted:Yeah it's part of the whole "Licensed Officer" that iirc are only the Innovade suits and Graham's Mr Bushido midlife crisis are mostly part of. Soma also has a license, but the MARIE plot arc happens pretty early. Neddy Seagoon posted:The whole License thing is such a childishly-dumb rear end-pull of a concept too. "Yeah this character can do whatever they want, and be where we want them for the plot, because we wrote it so they have a license to literally do anything they want to. It's honestly weird because they don't really do anything meaningful with the concept so I don't even know why they introduced it. Graham and the Innovades don't really need an excuse to tell anyone trying to give them orders they don't want to follow to gently caress off, and Soma drops out of A-LAWS very early.
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Jul 20, 2022 12:17
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The whole License thing is such a childishly-dumb rear end-pull of a concept too. "Yeah this character can do whatever they want, and be where we want them for the plot, because we wrote it so they have a license to literally do anything they want to. The thing is, doing it for one pilot is amusing, in a Ron Swanson way. This one person is so good that even this totalitarian military organization is willing to throw up its hands and let him fight however he likes because there's no replacing him. But then throwing it in for other pilots removes the fun "We had to make a special rule just for the weirdo" aspect, and just further detaches the plot from any grounding.
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Jul 20, 2022 12:22
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Aren't Graham and Soma two of the only pilots who showed any proficiency at taking on Gundams? Beyond Ali, who works directly for Ribbons, rather than being part of the normal armed forces anyway. They both have friends in high places within the new armed forces, and show a dedication to hunting Gundams for their own reasons too. So the license is probably just a fancy title to go with the job of "hunt Gundams and Celestial Being", with the ability to tell commanders to go hang if it gets in the way.
tsob fucked around with this message at 12:29 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 12:26
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Wait What the hell is this licensed officer stuff? Don't remember that at all.
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Jul 20, 2022 12:28
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Waffleman_ posted:Wait It's just an in-plot excuse for Soma, Graham, and the Innovade pilots who aren't Ribbons to be members of A-LAWS but be allowed to completely ignore any orders and do anything they want.
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Jul 20, 2022 12:33
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Graham is the Char, he doesn't need an excuse.
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Jul 20, 2022 12:34
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Waffleman_ posted:What the hell is this licensed officer stuff? Don't remember that at all. When Kati tries to order Graham to follow orders in their next operation after the first time he engages the 00 during season two, Mr. Bushido tells her that he refuses and has been granted a permit for independent action and that he doesn't have to follow her orders. In other words, that he is, in his own words "a one man army". Which is referred to as a license after that, rather than a permit. Including Graham calling it a license in that conversation too. The Innovades are also stated to hold such permits/licenses at various points, and Louise and Andrei are implied to be license carriers too at one or two points. I don't see anything about Soma being one though, after checking the sub files. Still, it may just be stated with wording I didn't think to check for or something. Regardless, it's basically an in plot excuse for named pilots to go off and do their own thing whenever they want; to have them focus on the Gundams and the Ptolemaios rather than the grander battles or anything, in order to facilitate fights. Which I'm fine with personally. It sounds silly, but it's not really any sillier than mechs in general and I think of it along the same lines as James Bond as a "spy" (agent, really) with his license to kill personally.
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Jul 20, 2022 12:45
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I've always thought the licenses were an interesting extension of the "ace pilot" idea, even if 00 didn't do a ton with them. It makes sense in a setting where 4 skilled pilots changed the world to try giving that same kind of freedom of action to your own top pilots.
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Jul 20, 2022 13:07
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1st Stage Midboss posted:I've always thought the licenses were an interesting extension of the "ace pilot" idea, even if 00 didn't do a ton with them. It makes sense in a setting where 4 skilled pilots changed the world to try giving that same kind of freedom of action to your own top pilots. SEED Destiny did something similar with the existence of FAITH, an organization where membership basically let you go "yeah whatever normal military dudes I'm in FAITH i do what i want".
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Jul 20, 2022 13:33
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It gave the innovades an excuse to join the military while completely dodging the whole grunt situation, and also the freedom to pursue their own goals. Mr. Bushido having one always felt more like a test/Ribbons found him amusing.
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Jul 20, 2022 13:55
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wdarkk posted:Is it just me or does the engineering on the figure feel worse than Suletta or Valdilena from 86? A lot of the energy was focused on making it so she can take her shoes off.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:23
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Kanos posted:SEED Destiny did something similar with the existence of FAITH, an organization where membership basically let you go "yeah whatever normal military dudes I'm in FAITH i do what i want". FAITH still had the trappings of a chain of command. The idea was that you were Durandal's personal agents and acted with his authority. So if some random colonel tried to tell you to do something you didn't think aligned with Durandal's vision for ZAFT, you could tell that colonel to gently caress off. It's not the strongest distinction though since the big difference between Durandal and Ribbons is that Durandal seemed way more personally involved in everything that was going on. I remember more scenes of Durandal visiting the front lines or doing military related things, while I remember Ribbons being extremely hands off except for sneering down from his Innovadesbunker and issuing evil bad guy orders. Functionally I don't think it was ever used that much in Destiny. Heine even comments on the lunacy of sticking four FAITH members on the same ship. Who are they gonna pull rank on? Each other? The characters in 00 use Licenses far more proactively to go do things, while FAITH members used it more as a shield to avoid getting punished as I recall.
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Jul 20, 2022 14:42
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Warmachine posted:FAITH still had the trappings of a chain of command. The idea was that you were Durandal's personal agents and acted with his authority. So if some random colonel tried to tell you to do something you didn't think aligned with Durandal's vision for ZAFT, you could tell that colonel to gently caress off. It's not the strongest distinction though since the big difference between Durandal and Ribbons is that Durandal seemed way more personally involved in everything that was going on. I remember more scenes of Durandal visiting the front lines or doing military related things, while I remember Ribbons being extremely hands off except for sneering down from his Innovadesbunker and issuing evil bad guy orders. Yeah it gets used a few times. Also the Minerva was basically supposed to be Durandal's go to especially considering the captain was his lost love
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Jul 20, 2022 14:56
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Did Patrick have a Licence? Outside of being the joke character he was the uhm... EUA? Ace. The movie giving him a custom MS with only shields and armor parts was p cute, they knew he would somehow manage to get it blown up.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:28
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Patrick has a wife.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:30
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