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Charliegrs posted:So the USSS relies on the agents to manually back up their texts as opposed to an automated backup solution that surely every other department in the government uses.... The texts have been Epstein'd
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Jul 20, 2022 15:51
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LegendaryFrog posted:The USSS explanation is already in the article linked. Yeah, about that... https://twitter.com/amandacarpenter/status/1549520487486734337
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Jul 20, 2022 15:58
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Charliegrs posted:So the USSS relies on the agents to manually back up their texts as opposed to an automated backup solution that surely every other department in the government uses.... Those solutions are Insufficiently Tactical, obviously.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:21
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Piell posted:Yeah, about that...  Uhhh, not to sound almarmist or anything but in history "Praetorian Guard/ Palace Guard showing clear signs of disloyalty" is a BIG old red flag for most empires and civilizations, like the "Heads on spikes" level red button. These fucks should be investigated and USSS should be purged. Not sure why our decorum addled boomers think we as a Civilization are just special and safe from palace coups. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 17:39 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 16:32
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LegendaryFrog posted:Now they could be lying about whether this purge was pre-planned (and I’d guess they almost certainly are), but there is almost certainly a paper trail of some kind about this directive. I think it depends on how many months "months" actually accounts for. If "months" means "since November", well it was perfectly obvious Trump was planning crimes by then.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:36
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LegendaryFrog posted:The USSS explanation is already in the article linked. I doubt it'll be as simple as that. It's pretty well-known that asking people to voluntarily upload their stuff to something is a piss-poor way to implement a mandatory requirement. If you're required by law to retain records, then either you set up a system to do it automatically without human intervention, or you send the managers to go breathing down everyone's necks and looking over people's shoulders as they personally verify the uploads.
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Jul 20, 2022 16:44
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Well yeah that's what you'd normally do. If we're required to retain messages for litigation, they'd just copy everything off Exchange and not force all employees to print out their emails or something. If it turns out that the USSS retention method was "agents copy and paste messages into google sheets" I'll poo poo myself and eat it on camera. If that timeline is correct and they wiped everything ten days after repeatedly being asked to retain the messages, that's really bad
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Jul 20, 2022 16:59
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mobby_6kl posted:
taking notes "Sir/Madame, would you be eating the pants you were wearing at the time, or just the poo poo from when you poo poo yourself?"
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Jul 20, 2022 17:24
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TulliusCicero posted:
So when you are calling for purges, that is you not being alarmist? It seems pretty apparent that this was an intentional effort by someone in the USSS to avoid complying with the subpoenas from the Jan 6 committee. It's good that this is being investigated by the National Archives and it will be interesting to see what exactly they determine the reason behind this kind of behavior was. Even if the decision to purge the phones was planned months in advance, that doesn't really mean anything. Based on what the committee has discovered, the planning for jan 6 was definitely started many months prior. So it is definitely a big red flag that warrants a complete investigation.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:26
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Grip it and rip it posted:So when you are calling for purges, that is you not being alarmist? No, that's me being a historian. My concern is there seems to be a sizable contingent of USSS that was willing to along with Trump and actively covered things up, to the point Mike Pence KNEW not to go with them. That to me is a historical crisis of the palace guard, and those people should not be anywhere near the Presidency. Pence, when given the choice between getting in a car to what should be the relative safety of Secret service agents or stay in the ongoing attempted coup with armed lunatics outside the Capitol, decided to take his chances with the lunatics. That really needs to be investigated. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 17:48
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I don't mind if the Secret Service stays in existence, but they have to fire literally everybody. Every last one of them, no purge, just completely raze it to the ground and rehire/rebuild it, use an independent board to do it if you have to.
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Jul 20, 2022 17:58
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worth noting that on 1/6 secret service emphatically did the right thing wrt trump
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Jul 20, 2022 18:01
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Herstory Begins Now posted:worth noting that on 1/6 secret service emphatically did the right thing wrt trump Don't care, everybody gotta go. Things like this continue to rot and fester. If I was POTUS (lol), I'd name a bipartisan commission to both remake the entire agency and deal with the immediate issues that will arise while that's being done.
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Jul 20, 2022 18:09
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https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1549808771249180672?t=6u8Q4vau6Abu4Cku6e-7Vg&s=19
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Jul 20, 2022 18:36
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Seems more like a "hey guys, make sure you back up your messages! If you don't they'll be gone forever and nobody will be able to see anything you texted on the big day! Remember, there's only one point of failure, so if you don't upload them, that's it, they're gone, and nobody would be able to find them again!"
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Jul 20, 2022 18:38
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TulliusCicero posted:No, that's me being a historian. Yeah, it's an extremely obvious and common red flag. That there is literally any possibility that Pence might have been kidnapped is grounds for a mass purge (in case anybody needs clarification, a "purge" means termination of employment and potential criminal charges for any attempted destruction of evidence/obstruction of justice, nothing too spicy).
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Jul 20, 2022 18:39
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mdemone posted:Don't care, everybody gotta go. Things like this continue to rot and fester. If I was POTUS (lol), I'd name a bipartisan commission to both remake the entire agency and deal with the immediate issues that will arise while that's being done. Looking forward to the new, upgraded Transparent Service
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Jul 20, 2022 18:51
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Guys, I dunno if having this secret police named the SS and staffed with goons loyal to a white supremacist fascist was a good idea (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jul 20, 2022 18:52
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mdemone posted:I don't mind if the Secret Service stays in existence, but they have to fire literally everybody. Every last one of them, no purge, just completely raze it to the ground and rehire/rebuild it, use an independent board to do it if you have to. You think arbitrarily firing every SS agent, people who have committed their entire lives to obtaining the positions they now have, is somehow going to lead to a better formation of that organization? Why would smart or talented people want to work for an agency where they can be arbitrarily dismissed based on pure speculation? Jaxyon posted:Guys, I dunno if having this secret police named the SS and staffed with goons loyal to a white supremacist fascist was a good idea How are the secret service "secret police" beyond having the word "secret" in their name?
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Jul 20, 2022 19:09
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Grip it and rip it posted:You think arbitrarily firing every SS agent, people who have committed their entire lives to obtaining the positions they now have, is somehow going to lead to a better formation of that organization? Why would smart or talented people want to work for an agency where they can be arbitrarily dismissed based on pure speculation? Because they actively participated in a coup and helped cover it up (if they were individually responsible for uploading their own texts it means literally nobody did that) Like, sure, sucks for them, but the status quo is you can't tell who was so personally loyal to Trump they tried to overthrow the government and who wasn't. Not really worth the risk
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Jul 20, 2022 19:10
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If an organization is really corrupt then yeah it might be worthwhile just firing everyone and starting over. That said I'd wait for an investigation of what exactly happened there. We don't really have anything 100% clear other than that some messages haven't been found (yet).Xiahou Dun posted:taking notes
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Jul 20, 2022 19:14
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Lemming posted:Because they actively participated in a coup and helped cover it up (if they were individually responsible for uploading their own texts it means literally nobody did that) How did they participate? they forcibly stopped trump from carrying out his desired actions that day. like the usss is kind of a clown show a lot of the time and has certainly never passed up a columbian hookers and cocaine party even once, but at least on 1/6 they were one of the few agencies that did what it was meant to do Given that they actively worked against trump on 1/6, idk if it's reasonable to jump to 'they're all compromised fire everyone.' Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 19:19
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Lemming posted:Because they actively participated in a coup and helped cover it up (if they were individually responsible for uploading their own texts it means literally nobody did that) As a general rule, I don't actually like the Secret Service and think it's a bad organization in need of lots of reform, if not a complete over-haul or dismissal and shifting its duties onto other groups, possibly including a new group. I'm emphasizing this because I want it understood that I'm not in any way defending the Secret Service and I in fact agree it's hosed up. Getting rid of an entire organization and all staff like this is a loving terrible idea. You're wildly overcorrecting and poo poo is absolutely stupid. It'd be like getting rid of the entire postal service just to remove Louis DeJoy. If nothing else, the Secret Service does a lot of poo poo besides protecting a president! mobby_6kl posted:
crossing out old notes, writing "coward" and then underlining it several times
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Jul 20, 2022 19:24
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Yes it's a loving terrible idea and would end in disaster, also I can't think of any ideas that don't.
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Jul 20, 2022 19:27
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mdemone posted:I don't mind if the Secret Service stays in existence, but they have to fire literally everybody. Every last one of them, no purge, just completely raze it to the ground and rehire/rebuild it, use an independent board to do it if you have to. I hope you can make peace with the fact that literally nothing like that is going to happen, ever
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Jul 20, 2022 19:33
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Herstory Begins Now posted:How did they participate? they forcibly stopped trump from carrying out his desired actions that day. like the usss is kind of a clown show a lot of the time and has certainly never passed up a columbian hookers and cocaine party even once, but at least on 1/6 they were one of the few agencies that did what it was meant to do They lost *every single text message*. That doesn't happen without either a top down wipe without a single person making any backup themselves, or coordination between everyone to not back anything up. And no, they did not actively work against Trump as a whole. Did we already forget that Pence was explicit about not wanting to go with them because he was pretty sure they were just going to kidnap him?
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Jul 20, 2022 19:33
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mdemone posted:Don't care, everybody gotta go. Things like this continue to rot and fester. If I was POTUS (lol), I'd name a bipartisan commission to both remake the entire agency and deal with the immediate issues that will arise while that's being done. Could pair it with dismantling the rest of DHS while we're at it
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Jul 20, 2022 19:33
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Lemming posted:They lost *every single text message*. That doesn't happen without either a top down wipe without a single person making any backup themselves, or coordination between everyone to not back anything up. They did an acid wash on the servers, folks, it's the worst crime in American history, so sad
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Jul 20, 2022 19:51
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Failed Imagineer posted:They did an acid wash on the servers, folks, it's the worst crime in American history, so sad Acid wash jeans were in fact a crime against humanity and whoever first came up with the process should be tried at the Hague.
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Jul 20, 2022 19:52
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Lemming posted:They lost *every single text message*. That doesn't happen without either a top down wipe without a single person making any backup themselves, or coordination between everyone to not back anything up. You think federal police are routinely making redundant backups of official work correspondence?
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Jul 20, 2022 19:58
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Lemming posted:They lost *every single text message*. That doesn't happen without either a top down wipe without a single person making any backup themselves, or coordination between everyone to not back anything up. Was this a loss of every single message or just some of them? I believe that they turned over a bunch of messages and this was a request for any further messages that weren't turned over? I could be wrong though
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Jul 20, 2022 20:03
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Was this a loss of every single message or just some of them? I believe that they turned over a bunch of messages and this was a request for any further messages that weren't turned over? I could be wrong though Shh shh. No questions, we just gotta burn them all. Yes, even the anti-counterfeiting parts that everyone forgets are the actual primary job of the Secret Service. This is a reasonable position of a serious thinker.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:05
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Failed Imagineer posted:I hope you can make peace with the fact that literally nothing like that is going to happen, ever Oh most definitely. My emotional investment in this is actually much lower than you all might think. I've got two kids and I've had to shrink my focus over these last few years, thankfully.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:07
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Grip it and rip it posted:You think federal police are routinely making redundant backups of official work correspondence? Probably not for any given Wednesday but it strains credulity to say they just randomly lost all their correspondence from a coup which, if successful, they would have been an important part of Herstory Begins Now posted:Was this a loss of every single message or just some of them? I believe that they turned over a bunch of messages and this was a request for any further messages that weren't turned over? I could be wrong though https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jul/19/secret-service-one-text-message-january-6-committee quote:The Secret Service turned over just one text message to the House January 6 committee on Tuesday, in response to a subpoena compelling the production of all communications from the day before and the day of the US Capitol attack, according to two sources familiar with the matter. Sorry, my bad. They literally turned over one text message, not zero.
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Jul 20, 2022 20:07
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Lemming posted:Probably not for any given Wednesday but it strains credulity to say they just randomly lost all their correspondence from a coup which, if successful, they would have been an important part of that's one additional message from what they had previously turned over, I believe that article is unclear about that? Again I could be wrong though e on further reading: quote:But even as the Secret Service complied with the subpoena, and produced thousands of pages of documents related to decisions made on the day of the Capitol attack, the agency could provide just one text message, the sources said. Lemming posted:They lost *every single text message*. That doesn't happen without either a top down wipe without a single person making any backup themselves, or coordination between everyone to not back anything up. Pence was uncertain of what they would do, I don't believe he's ever suggested that they were going to kidnap him or that he thought that was likely. From what he was said, he was concerned that their procedures would not allow him back to the capitol. If he was concerned about kidnapping, the USSS would've been handled pretty differently after 1/6. I do think it's worth remembering that they actively obstructed Trump at the key moment. that said, there's very clearly something weird going on with the text messages Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jul 20, 2022 |
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Jul 20, 2022 20:09
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All of those things are absurdly, unequivocally damning
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Jul 20, 2022 20:17
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All of what things?
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Jul 20, 2022 20:17
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Pence was uncertain of what they would do, I don't believe he's ever suggested that they were going to kidnap him or that he thought that was likely. From what he was said, he was concerned that their procedures would not allow him back to the capitol. If he was concerned about kidnapping, the USSS would've been handled pretty differently after 1/6. I do think it's worth remembering that they actively obstructed Trump at the key moment. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make; this is literally the kidnapping. He had to be there to confirm the results, and the plan for the coup specifically involved removing Pence so they could replace him with Grassley or whoever so they could skip using the electors and go straight to voting using the House method
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Jul 20, 2022 20:19
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Herstory Begins Now posted:All of what things? The parts where they turned over no texts, slow walked the investigation, produced no action reports, and made it clear multiple times they needed to preserve communications and then deleted them anyway
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Jul 20, 2022 20:21
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Should any SS agents appear before the committee? E: and does the committee have meta data of which agents sent texts (and to whom) with a timeline?
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Jul 20, 2022 20:23
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