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tsob posted:His art-style works fine in shows where the characters are more exaggerated, and can be more expressive. It works in s-CRY-ed, Heroic Age and Majestic Prince as examples, because those have a focus on comedy or over the top action that means characters are a lot more emotive in general. It's just shows like Gundam SEED or Fafner that are trying to be more muted and reasonable in their depiction of people and conflict where it doesn't work so well. It's never beautiful by any stretch, but it's not distractingly bad in the right show either and it even does well to highlight some parts of the action. I hate it in all those shows too.
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Jul 25, 2022 17:39
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I also really liked Seed but I will admit that I have much higher tolerance for the melodramtic teen soap bullshit in it than others. I like it because I really dig a lot of the character interactions and dynamics - I'm not a fan of Kira on his own but the way other characters interact with him and how he responds sometimes work for me. Like Flay is awful but her whole thing with Kira works for me because I think the way she weaponizes her pain, bigotry and Kira's guilt in the first half is interesting. I also really like Cagali and back half Lacus has some really great, to me, moments. I think once Seed gets past the awful pacing in the beginning and gets to Earth it really picks up but I definitely get why people don't like it and can't get past that point. Also agreee that the art is pretty bad and the remaster's CGI is incredibly awkward and not great. The random ultra-gore also is pretty offputting when it pops up. Destiny though was a huge let down since it takes all that's even mildly interesting about Kira, all of his mistakes and doubt and any sense of any flaw, and throws it out to make him perfect and it's boring. Cagali and Lacus are just...there. Athrun could have had an interesting arc where he tries to figure his poo poo out but instead he's just wishy washy. Even Cagali going through a political marriage, melodrama soapy bullshit I like because I imprinted on questional shojo manga, bugged me instead. Just very little about Destiny ended up appealing to me in the end. The show also felt meaner. Either way I've spent too much time on coming up with ways to say I just really didn't like Destiny when I can think about Gundam I did like, actual quality be damned.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:32
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Seed is aggressively ugly and unpleasant to watch and the story and character work is so poor that it doesn't make up for it.
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Jul 25, 2022 18:37
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Vanilla SEED is fine, not amazing but it’s got some decent stuff. It suffers from early 2000s syndrome but it’s nowhere near the level of dreck like Victory or 083
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Jul 25, 2022 19:11
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Seed as a franchise is less than the sum of its parts. None of the ideas are independently terrible, but the execution tends to be bland (Seed) or awful (Destiny). Seed itself ends up aggressively average because of this in my eyes. I still enjoy watching it (especially the Ocean dub; I like Athrun's VA alright?) from time to time. Destiny actually fakes you out at the start thinking that it might be aping Zeta and then pulls the rug out from under you as soon as Kira shows up again. I'm still mad about the Athrun/Shinn story we didn't get because Kira had to steal all the oxygen in the room. To me that's the greater sin and if Destiny had been done differently, Seed would just be a matter-of-fact "yeah, it happened, it's not bad." Destiny is a bit like the Mass Effect endings in that way; it retroactively poisoned the stuff that came before it.
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Jul 25, 2022 20:30
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RevolverDivider posted:Vanilla SEED is fine, not amazing but it’s got some decent stuff. It suffers from early 2000s syndrome but it’s nowhere near the level of dreck like Victory or 083 0083 has a lot of narrative vices, but it still has the virtue of being absurdly pretty, with some of the best looking action scenes in Gundam. SEED, by contrast, tops out at "okay", with weak action even when it isn't resorting to stock footage. It depends on what you're looking for and all, but 0083 is much better than SEED in its specialty, even if it's worse in other areas.
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Jul 25, 2022 22:58
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I like SEED, I will probably never fully rewatch it, but it is fine. Dub Rau is priceless.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:11
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tsob posted:
I think the issue is more that he was the lead writer of Code Geass and Valvrave, both were completely original properties, and both really leaned into those SHOCKING TWISTS. Several other original works he's been a notable member of the staff in (particularly looking at Kabaneri and Guilty Crown here) also had similar issues. Whereas something like Lupin or several adaptations he's also been heavily involved in leave far less room to toss in gamechanging twists because they're either a continuing franchise or mostly following a story already written. None of this is to say Witch will be bad or anything, but it's a combination of being an original work and he's the lead writer, which hasn't really been a thing since Valvrave.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:14
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Im going to assume that the producer has more impact on the general tone of mainline series vs new IPs since more money is invested on them.
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Jul 26, 2022 00:40
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For some horrible reason I watched Valvrave when it aired; I can recall nothing else of it.
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Jul 26, 2022 02:44
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ninjewtsu posted:what the hell happened in uma musume season 2 that made it jump from s1's 286th place in sales all the way to number 1 Had gacha stuff included for Granblue Fantasy IIRC.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:03
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Im going to assume that the producer has more impact on the general tone of mainline series vs new IPs since more money is invested on them. Looking at the interviews for Iron Blooded Orphans, it does look like the writers and director had a lot of freedom, to the point it was the writers, not the producer, who toned down the ending. Hard to know exactly what the rules are, but we know Code Geass had a lot of studio interference early on in season 2, and IBO seems to have had less, so it seems there's not a hard line between "New IP" and "Mainline" in terms of writer freedom. As for Lupin, the writer did do a lot of SHOCKING TWISTS! (Lupin is dead! Lupin has a long lost relative who could have been Lupin III instead and who he did crimes with back in the day! Lupin and Fujiko got married! That isn't Lupin's real face!) but it worked in the context of the show. Even within Code Geass, some of the shocking twists worked and made the show a massive hit, while others... were less good. We'll see what we see.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:26
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Given Geass and Valvrave imma assume the Witch of Mercury is a real witch, broomstick and all.
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Jul 26, 2022 03:53
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Valvrave was the one with space vampires? Neat idea but I recall dropping that one real quick once the main character "lost control".
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Jul 26, 2022 03:58
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Azubah posted:Valvrave was the one with space vampires? Neat idea but I recall dropping that one real quick once the main character "lost control". "VAmpire Link Vessel Rune Activate Vital Engine". I thought that General Unilateral Neuro-link Dispersive Autonomic Maneuver was bad. I am sure I watched some of valrave, but that poo poo is lost in some Dark History mind wipe, because I straight up could not name a character, place or thing from that show if you put a gun to my head.
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Jul 26, 2022 04:28
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there was a delinquent with a cool multi-arm mech? yeah, that's all i've got.
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Jul 26, 2022 04:31
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ManSedan posted:For some horrible reason I watched Valvrave when it aired; I can recall nothing else of it. Azubah posted:Valvrave was the one with space vampires? Neat idea but I recall dropping that one real quick once the main character "lost control".
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Jul 26, 2022 04:45
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I vaguely recall something about the robot being powered by memories or some such and there was a montage of losing the last of his personality in the final battle or whatever set to sad music. Then I promptly forgot everything else about the show. Oh, I guess I remember L-Elf was cool or something, but for the life of me I can't remember what for.
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Jul 26, 2022 04:49
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Valvrave was really bluntly intended to be a 'vampire mecha' show where you watched the good guy hero protagonist gradually fall into being a genuine Dracula type and then at some point (probably after the infamous 'lost control' scene) they backed the gently caress off that and made it about a dude piloting a robot that eats his memories but he's actually a super cool heroic guy in the most boring way imaginable. And it's a shame because the core concept is really interesting. Focusing on a Kira-style protagonist whose hypocrisy and flaws are an actual fundamental part of the character and lead to his eventual downfall could have been really interesting. The first episode drives it hard home when the moment his ideals are pushed he presses the Dark Pact button (and turns out to have done so for no reason) and there was a lot of room to genuinely do something unique. (Well, semi-unique, Geass was already doing "What if the generic Gundam protagonist was an insane hosed up mess of a human being and the rival character" but still.) Sadly it just ended up being a boring meaningless show with absolutely no coherent plot whose most memorable moments are insanely loving tasteless edgy bullshit for no reason. AGE ironically comes closer to the idea it is going for with Flit's journey from excited Gundam protagonist to bitter old genocidal madman but it isn't quite willing to pull the trigger on making Flit irredeemable. Flit is so close to being a really genuinely interesting character even with Age's writing mess and it's incredibly frustrating he doesn't stick the landing because they actually come really close to it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 04:58 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 04:50
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is valvrave the morbius of mechas
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Jul 26, 2022 04:55
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AtheistMantis posted:I vaguely recall something about the robot being powered by memories or some such and there was a montage of losing the last of his personality in the final battle or whatever set to sad music. Then I promptly forgot everything else about the show. So, would you say your own memories of the show were consumed?
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Jul 26, 2022 04:58
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ImpAtom posted:Valvrave was really bluntly intended to be a 'vampire mecha' show where you watched the good guy hero protagonist gradually fall into being a genuine Dracula type and then at some point (probably after the infamous 'lost control' scene) they backed the gently caress off that and made it about a dude piloting a robot that eats his memories but he's actually a super cool heroic guy in the most boring way imaginable. Huh. You know, I really thought that the bullshit moment in that series happened in like... episode 2, not near the mid season break. Explains why I watched at least that far, because normally I drop poo poo that takes that particular edge, and for the life of me I couldn't think why I got past it.
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Jul 26, 2022 05:03
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Caros posted:Huh. You know, I really thought that the bullshit moment in that series happened in like... episode 2, not near the mid season break. Explains why I watched at least that far, because normally I drop poo poo that takes that particular edge, and for the life of me I couldn't think why I got past it. Yeah I am pretty sure at least part of the reason for the massive retooling is because that happened just before the break and I don't think I've ever seen such an immensely negative response to a plot point in both Japan and America. I don't think any series could genuinely survive that loving poo poo happening in it.
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Jul 26, 2022 05:06
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It wasn't even due to feedback about the "lost control" scene, because at the very least the rest of S1 had been finished before they possibly could have gotten feedback about that. Instead, the fallout of the incident was completely dropped/resolved in the very next episode in just about the worst way possible and then never brought up again. Hell, the scene was edgy bullshit but they'd actually loving DONE something with the fallout that affected the show going forward it at least would have been something. And then S2 came along and all the rules about how the powers worked seemingly completely changed... repeatedly. S1 was at least mostly coherent in how it handled the powers, and the SHOCKING TWIST at the end at least didn't contradict anything that had already happened. S2? Lol. And that's just the plot point about how they're powered, not even getting into any of the other gargantuan messes that were S2's plot. And Mr. Egg was just an absolutely terrible protagonist in general. I wouldn't even call him a Kira knockoff or whatever, because he wasn't even really a pacifist as just utterly cowardly and wishy washy for no given reason. "Don't interact with me or activate another Valvrave, because I'm a monster and it'll make you one too!" he screams, because a message on a loving computer screen stated something unsettling and he can now regen and possess people. Like if that'd come after he'd actually almost inadvertently done something to someone on his side it'd be one thing (and he did end up having a couple losses of control before the big incident, they just got contained), but no he's whining about it from the very start. edit: To be clear, I think it's reasonable for a character to maybe be wary of suddenly gaining regen/possession/etc. through an extremely shady method, rather than happily jumping headfirst into them like #2, but if you're going to have them immediately go into a rant about how horrible everything is instead - when at that point the new powers are the only thing that's stood between everyone you care about and a group of psychos hellbent on massacring them, and there's been no real detrimental effects yet - you might want to give some background context for why they're this traumatized. Assuming you're trying to write a decent protagonist, at least. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 05:25 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 05:17
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Caros posted:"VAmpire Link Vessel Rune Activate Vital Engine". 
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Jul 26, 2022 05:42
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If you remove the rape from valvrave it would be one of my favorite shows ever made Alas
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Jul 26, 2022 05:43
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Imo the crazy twists writing style is really fun if a little dumb (maybe not great fit for gundam). Haruto climbing out of his robot at the end of episode one only for l-elf to immediately stab him through the heart the moment he touches ground, then shoot his body 3 times for good measure, was some funny rear end poo poo. Triply so when haruto got the gently caress back up and bit him. I want more of that poo poo please
ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 05:47
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AtheistMantis posted:Oh, I guess I remember L-Elf was cool or something, but for the life of me I can't remember what for. In the first episode L-Elf deduces that there is a secret underground military research facility beneath the main characters' school by observing the spacing of the sprinklers watering the school fields He's the middle school oc you made a week after watching death note for the first time essentially played completely straight ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 05:51
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AtheistMantis posted:
L-Elf was basically Lelouch ramped up to 11, only with equivalent physical capabilities too. Plus a portion of Ledger Joker bullshit of basically magicking up what he needed, where he needed, immediately. The dumbest/funniest scene involving him was probably when he was tied to a steel folding chair, somehow managed to unscrew one of the screws with just the tips of his fingers, somehow managing to throw it directly up hard enough to shatter a light with literally just the tips of his fingers and no leverage whatsoever and then of course catch super large glass shards and kill everyone. And then magic up several hundred kilos of explosives spread over like 30 floors of a building within a few minutes so he can blow it up while bungee jumping to the bottom. It is funny, but it's yet another issue with the show in that it's incredibly tonally dissonant. Like, he's literally comics Batman in terms of absurdity, in a show where everyone else basically operates under normal human in a mecha series rules.
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Jul 26, 2022 06:08
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Ibblebibble posted:Had gacha stuff included for Granblue Fantasy IIRC. Season 1 had gacha too - Season 2 sold more cause it was a really good sequel
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Jul 26, 2022 06:10
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https://twitter.com/kthorjensen/status/1355250657612099588
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Jul 26, 2022 07:01
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Technically incorrect. The behind the scenes features on the first edition laserdisk of "Stop Making Sense" confirms that it only had one Ahab reactor. SatoshiMiwa posted:Season 1 had gacha too - Season 2 sold more cause it was a really good sequel That's even less useful as an explanation. There's "Sold more" and there's "set sales records for anime DVDs in an era of massively declining home video sales". Something weird was happening with Uma Musume's DVD sales, and I have no idea what.
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Jul 26, 2022 08:09
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https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2022-02-21/moon-gundam-manga-gets-1st-animated-footage-in-u.c-engage-game/.182865 Looks pretty
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Jul 26, 2022 08:18
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chiasaur11 posted:That's even less useful as an explanation. There's "Sold more" and there's "set sales records for anime DVDs in an era of massively declining home video sales". The Uma Musume mobile game came out after season 1, and it was absolutely massive. There was a big player base specifically after the Uma Musume bonuses and also interested in those characters, so the discs sold. 1st Stage Midboss fucked around with this message at 10:14 on Jul 26, 2022 |
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Jul 26, 2022 09:29
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1st Stage Midboss posted:The Uma Musune mobile game came out after season 1, and it was absolutely massive. There was a big player base specifically after the Uma Musume bonuses and also interested in those characters, so the discs sold. That scans. It's still a staggering amount of success, but it's at least enough of an explanation that it's within the normal possibility space, even if it's on the far end.
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Jul 26, 2022 09:56
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chiasaur11 posted:So, would you say your own memories of the show were consumed? I think it ate my memories of Buddy Complex too. I am so not cut out to be a mecha anime historian.
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Jul 26, 2022 13:21
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chiasaur11 posted:0083 has a lot of narrative vices, but it still has the virtue of being absurdly pretty, with some of the best looking action scenes in Gundam. SEED, by contrast, tops out at "okay", with weak action even when it isn't resorting to stock footage. 0083 also has a  soundtrack.
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Jul 26, 2022 13:26
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Ehhhh I wouldn't go that far. It has some all time great OP and ED songs but the only memorable music from the show itself comes from riffs on those same openers and ending tunes like Back to Paradise or when Magic plays over romantic footage of Kou and Kelly building a war crimes machine. Most of the battle music or suspense stings can't really hold a candle to something like 08th MS Team which has a much stronger overall score.
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Jul 26, 2022 13:42
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chiasaur11 posted:0083 has a lot of narrative vices, but it still has the virtue of being absurdly pretty, with some of the best looking action scenes in Gundam. SEED, by contrast, tops out at "okay", with weak action even when it isn't resorting to stock footage. Does it matter though? Do people actually watch (or re-watch) shows just to appreciate the animation, regardless of the quality of the story? I can certainly imagine watching something that looked horrendous if the story was engaging, but I cannot imagine watching something beautiful if the story was dog poo poo. I suppose there must be people like that, but it just seems so pointless to me, and I imagine at most that I'd just watch clips of the best bits, which will almost certainly be fights, on YouTube. I don't think I've ever even done that for anything whose writing I genuinely don't like though. Which I would assume is because the fights mean nothing if there's no emotional investment in the story or characters.
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Jul 26, 2022 14:01
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Lord Koth posted:It is funny, but it's yet another issue with the show in that it's incredibly tonally dissonant. Like, he's literally comics Batman in terms of absurdity, in a show where everyone else basically operates under normal human in a mecha series rules. this wasn't an issue it was the best part
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Jul 26, 2022 14:04
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