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csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

PBCrunch posted:

it would be so gratifying to alert the cops and see these creeps get arrested

lol at the idea that cops will help

Your best approach (barring actually locking the doors and not keeping valuables in plain sight) is to get a fake ADT sign and illuminate the area with a floodlight. You’ll be better protected than people who do not have those things thus making your cars a less desirable target.

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Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!

Fill the car with wasps, OP.

cruft
Oct 25, 2007

This is my new favorite song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1vuz8EtC9s

Slanderer
May 6, 2007

Foxfire_ posted:

System-on-chip => A single IC that contains processor, RAM, program storage, maybe power regulator stuff. You are intended to put the chip on a PCBA you design
System-on-module / computer-on-module => A small board that collectively contains those things. It does the harder to manufacture/layout parts of a design (e.g. how to connect DDR4 RAM chips to a processor). You are intended to connect it to slot it into a PCBA you design with your custom bits. Even cheap ones are ~$30. Fancy ones are expensive (ones we use at work are ~$200 for a quad core ARMv7 @ 1GHz with 2GB of RAM)

I've never heard of "system in package"



OK, i looked it up and i hadn't misunderstood

quote:

A system in package, or SiP, is a way of bundling two or more ICs inside a single package. This is in contrast to a system on chip, or SoC, where the functions on those chips are integrated onto the same die.

SiP has been around since the 1980s in the form of multi-chip modules. Rather than put chips on a printed circuit board, they can be combined into the same package to lower cost or to shorten distances that electrical signals have to travel. Connections historically have been through wire bonds.

While SiP saw limited adoption in its earliest forms, there has been much work done on improving this concept recently with 2.5D and 3D-ICs, as well as package-on-package and flip-chips. There are several key drivers for these changes:

PBCrunch
Jun 17, 2002

Lawrence Phillips Always #1 to Me
The guy looking for a Linux thing might want to check out: https://onion.io/

God drat! The Omega 2 is $50 now? I remember them selling for like $10 years ago. Nevermind, a new Super Omega 2 is $50. The regular one is $25.

PBCrunch fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Aug 10, 2022

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

I'm using KiCad 6 to design a complicated board for the first time (last one I did just to try it out was pretty simple) and god I feel like they found every little complaint or annoyance that affected me personally in 5 and fixed it, it's incredible.

I have nothing constructive to add I'm just very happy and need to tell someone.

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
I totally agree. There are still a couple nice extras they could steal from Altium, but they really got all the useability features to make it a solid tool for complicated stuff

Spatial
Nov 15, 2007

Awesome. I've really got to upgrade soon.

Splode
Jun 18, 2013

put some clothes on you little freak

Shame Boy posted:

I'm using KiCad 6 to design a complicated board for the first time (last one I did just to try it out was pretty simple) and god I feel like they found every little complaint or annoyance that affected me personally in 5 and fixed it, it's incredible.

I have nothing constructive to add I'm just very happy and need to tell someone.

This is really good to know, as Altium is getting worse and worse every update. It continues to run like poo poo even on very powerful computers, and the 365 stuff they've introduced and tricked most companies into using is incredibly half baked. It's very obvious now that nobody at Altium actually uses their software now.

I'm just waiting for a personal project to come up where I need a custom circuitboard so I can try KiCAD. If it's good I may try and introduce it at work. (It being free makes that not an impossible sell)

cruft
Oct 25, 2007

Splode posted:

This is really good to know, as Altium is getting worse and worse every update. It continues to run like poo poo even on very powerful computers, and the 365 stuff they've introduced and tricked most companies into using is incredibly half baked. It's very obvious now that nobody at Altium actually uses their software now.

I'm just waiting for a personal project to come up where I need a custom circuitboard so I can try KiCAD. If it's good I may try and introduce it at work. (It being free makes that not an impossible sell)

I bet you could find someone who'd sell it to you as part of a package that comes with a support contract.

There are entire companies who do nothing but this, because there are so many other companies who can't wrap their heads around using free/libre software.

e: Oh, you said "it being free", not "if being free". Can't delete a post, may as well keep it. Happy Friday.

Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003
Has anyone used one of these fancy TMC2208 type stepper drivers? The behavior is really weird when it comes to the powerdown/stationary mode. If I set the hold current to zero (so it can freewheel when not being driven) it loses all torque when driving as well. That would SEEM to imply that it thinks it's going stationary in-between steps. But the stationary flag is never set and the time between step pulses is way, way too close together (500 hz) to trigger the stationary detection based on the math (default is like 400milliseconds between steps = stationary)

But there's a separate value for ramping the braking force down, that is supposed to happen AFTER the main stationary delay, and if I increase the current ramp-down time, I can restore drive torque... which certainly seems to imply it's taking effect between each individual step. But I sure as poo poo can't figure out why.

ANIME AKBAR
Jan 25, 2007

afu~
Does Kicad support exporting anything beyond gerbers, like IPC 2581 or ODB++?

ANIME AKBAR fucked around with this message at 15:27 on Aug 13, 2022

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS

ANIME AKBAR posted:

Does Kicad support exporting anything beyond gerbers, like IPC 2581 or ODB++?

Looks like no, not yet.

Issue tracker:
https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/2019
https://gitlab.com/kicad/code/kicad/-/issues/1954

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.




Good start. Good loving start.

Cojawfee
May 31, 2006
I think the US is dumb for not using Celsius
What is that blue stuff

PokeJoe
Aug 24, 2004

hail cgatan


did you leave a cap on it

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Whoever came up with the idea of surface mount is a complete shithead. I hate this finicky bullshit.

PokeJoe posted:

did you leave a cap on it

Yes :(

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Christ, I just tried to solder SMD ICs to some adapters. That was possibly the worst experience I've ever had soldering. This poo poo is meant for machines, not humans.

I called it quits right after I got hot flux on my finger trying to desolder the chip (they're all probably hosed tbqh) by trying to corral a whole bunch of solder into one blob and wicking it away. It still hurts.

Spatial
Nov 15, 2007

You'd think it would be made of silicone so it wouldn't melt. lmao.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

That's basically how my first attempts went, but as I got better at it with practice I absolutely prefer SMD to everything else now :v:

You do need particular tools though, like something that made a big difference for me was getting these really fine-point tweezers:

https://www.amazon.com/PHONEFIX-Precision-Motherboard-Fingerprint-Microscope/dp/B078CR1HVF/

Which can hold tiny things just right without trying to flip them or ping them across the room etc.

Also it's way easier to use solder paste and a hotplate/heat gun, then touch up everything with a soldering iron afterwards, but that's a somewhat bigger investment so eh.

Charles Ford
Nov 27, 2004

The Earth is a farm. We are someone else’s Ford Focus.

Pollyanna posted:

Whoever came up with the idea of surface mount is a complete shithead. I hate this finicky bullshit.

My dad worked for Philips back when they were first making the push to surface mount (which I think as a company they were very invested in). He designed a PCB using the parts he was required to use, sent it off for layout and assembly, and when it came back, it didn't work at all...unless you pushed down on the chips. The assembly department were apparently still hand-soldering it as they either hadn't figured out or received the equipment to do it the "right" way. My dad still has a mistrust of surface mount due to all that business.

I've never had much bother removing surface mount chips, I just use a hot air gun to get it nice and loose (problem is sometimes small nearby components can also fly away, though it's fairly easy to control). Actually soldering the stuff down is a nightmare.

Spatial
Nov 15, 2007

For desoldering SMD chips you probably want a hot air gun not a soldering iron.

There is an easy mode with SMD: low temperature solder paste, a cheap hot plate and some fine tweezers. Plus a tiny stick to apply the paste.

PDP-1
Oct 12, 2004

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.
For small parts you just have to choke up on your soldering iron grip as demonstrated in this stock photo made by someone who clearly knows how electronics work.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

You can get solder paste in syringe tubes so I just put a little dispensing needle on it and apply it like that. I've even got a little thing for hooking the syringe tube up to compressed air and a foot pedal so I can just kinda go *pssht* and apply a precise little blob of it wherever I want.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I think what upsets me the most is that all the hot iron insanity almost assuredly annihilated some of those ICs via sheer heat exposure.

Shame Boy posted:

That's basically how my first attempts went, but as I got better at it with practice I absolutely prefer SMD to everything else now :v:

You do need particular tools though, like something that made a big difference for me was getting these really fine-point tweezers:

https://www.amazon.com/PHONEFIX-Precision-Motherboard-Fingerprint-Microscope/dp/B078CR1HVF/

Which can hold tiny things just right without trying to flip them or ping them across the room etc.

Also it's way easier to use solder paste and a hotplate/heat gun, then touch up everything with a soldering iron afterwards, but that's a somewhat bigger investment so eh.

Doesn't help when my shaky-rear end hands ruins every mount I try, even with some alligator clamps and holders. (The one I have is actually not heavy enough and it'll tip over real easy which sucks.)

I think I'll investigate this solder paste and heat gun proposal...

Charles Ford posted:

My dad worked for Philips back when they were first making the push to surface mount (which I think as a company they were very invested in). He designed a PCB using the parts he was required to use, sent it off for layout and assembly, and when it came back, it didn't work at all...unless you pushed down on the chips. The assembly department were apparently still hand-soldering it as they either hadn't figured out or received the equipment to do it the "right" way. My dad still has a mistrust of surface mount due to all that business.

good, gently caress smd

quote:

I've never had much bother removing surface mount chips, I just use a hot air gun to get it nice and loose (problem is sometimes small nearby components can also fly away, though it's fairly easy to control). Actually soldering the stuff down is a nightmare.

Can confirm.

Spatial posted:

For desoldering SMD chips you probably want a hot air gun not a soldering iron.

There is an easy mode with SMD: low temperature solder paste, a cheap hot plate and some fine tweezers. Plus a tiny stick to apply the paste.

guess ill buy more poo poo!!!!

PDP-1 posted:

For small parts you just have to choke up on your soldering iron grip as demonstrated in this stock photo made by someone who clearly knows how electronics work.



I almost did this once. Once.

Shame Boy posted:

You can get solder paste in syringe tubes so I just put a little dispensing needle on it and apply it like that. I've even got a little thing for hooking the syringe tube up to compressed air and a foot pedal so I can just kinda go *pssht* and apply a precise little blob of it wherever I want.

The biggest problem I have is that the component is so small that I will inevitably knock it out of alignment and trying to fix it will always end up like this:



No, I still can't get it off. I can't even tell if there's solder left or not.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution
For something that large I've had good luck rubber-banding it into place before tacking down a couple of legs

ante
Apr 9, 2005

SUNSHINE AND RAINBOWS
Tack opposite corners first


That's very doable with an iron - intentionally use way to much, and then solder wick it off

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Pollyanna posted:

The biggest problem I have is that the component is so small that I will inevitably knock it out of alignment and trying to fix it will always end up like this:



No, I still can't get it off. I can't even tell if there's solder left or not.

Not sure if that's in reply to my solder paste stuff or just a separate thought, but if its the former: you put the solder paste down first, and then use fine tweezers to plop the part down on top, then nudge it a lil' into place, then heat everything up to melt it. The nice thing about the solder paste method is once it melts the surface tension just kinda like, tugs everything into the right place as long as it's sorta close to where it needs to be.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

Pollyanna posted:

I almost did this once. Once.

I do it maybe once every year or so :v:

My fingers are now durable enough that I can very briefly touch the soldering iron tip without burning them though so that's fun.

One Legged Ninja
Sep 19, 2007
Feared by shoe salesmen. Defeated by chest-high walls.
Fun Shoe

Every time I look at this photo I see something new. Better make sure your 555 is torqued to 225 ft/lbs before you hammer it home. And twist your wires together firmly with your linesman's. Also, there is an iron plugged into that 400° base. Is it the one being held? :shrug:

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000

A soldering iron scope probe is awesome for testing your circuit live while you solder it. Though it's obviously not hooked up to either the scope or the iron controller. WTF is the scope even reading? It has a probe connected to the reference thingy but not any of the inputs? :psyduck:

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


I've managed to pry off all the ICs. Intact and healthy, who knows. Now I gotta design some circuits for them. This is still in the OP but oh my lord is it jank, any chance there's a nicer piece of software out there now? My own stuff isn't gonna be anything more complex than what I can fit on a piece of stripboard.

EDIT: Fritzing works!

everyone posted:

tipz

Once I calm down and get less offended by things Not Being Idiot Proof, I'll try it out again!

Pollyanna fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Aug 15, 2022

PDP-1
Oct 12, 2004

It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

One Legged Ninja posted:

Every time I look at this photo I see something new. Better make sure your 555 is torqued to 225 ft/lbs before you hammer it home. And twist your wires together firmly with your linesman's. Also, there is an iron plugged into that 400° base. Is it the one being held? :shrug:

I assure you that this is the proper setup for soldering your PDIP to a plastic breadboard by placing the tip of the iron on top of the package. Granted, the PDIP may not be connected with the right torque in this photo, that is likely what's preventing the soldering iron from wirelessly transmitting a well compensated square wave to the scope that has no other visible inputs.

Splode
Jun 18, 2013

put some clothes on you little freak
It is absolutely possible to solder many surface mount parts by hand, until you get to stuff where the pads are under the part; then you have to use hot air or an oven.

However, while you're learning how to solder surface mount parts I highly recommend sticking to components with just two pads, like resistors and capacitors. As you practice you can work your way down from relatively large parts like 1812 all the way down to 0402. There's also 0201 and 01005 but that is getting pretty gnarly.

I believe there are practice boards you can buy for this purpose.

Once you've got the hang of two leads, something like that tssop package won't seem quite so daunting. But there's no shortcuts, it just takes practice.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

I didn't even catch that it was a TSSOP, I'd probably stick to SOIC until you get the hang of it. You can get most things in SOIC and it's got twice the pin pitch so it's a lot easier to wrangle.

Rescue Toaster
Mar 13, 2003
Drown the fucker in flux. It's the only way to be sure.

Positioning & tacking is definitely the hardest part, once it's lined up if you use lots of flux it's really not hard to do the rest of the legs even with 0.5 pitch parts. Again, assuming it's lined up. For parts that don't have a thermal pad underneath, presumably you could use a tiny spot of some kind of putty to keep it from flying around at the slightest touch, though it would have to hold up to the temperatures of soldering without turning into goo.

Also I really recommend a microscope, I got one of those HAYEAR ones w/ a barlow lens and man is it nice to not have to hunch over it with magnifying goggles on.

csammis
Aug 26, 2003

Mental Institution

Pollyanna posted:

Now I gotta design some circuits for them. This is still in the OP but oh my lord is it jank, any chance there's a nicer piece of software out there now? My own stuff isn't gonna be anything more complex than what I can fit on a piece of stripboard.

EDIT: Fritzing works!

Bit of a learning curve but Kicad 6 is good and free and possibly way overkill for what you want to do right now

cruft
Oct 25, 2007


This hurts just to look at.

Also, what's with the torque wrench?

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

cruft posted:

This hurts just to look at.

Also, what's with the torque wrench?

One Legged Ninja posted:

Better make sure your 555 is torqued to 225 ft/lbs before you hammer it home.

It's just common sense

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cruft
Oct 25, 2007

Shame Boy posted:

It's just common sense

Makes me wonder if somebody's made a hidden picture book for engineers.

IN THIS PICTURE: a big ol' mess

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