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https://twitter.com/Leigh_Phillips/status/1557423036235517952 I was looking at Leigh Phillips twitter feed after reading his Newstatesman article and its sort of hard to take him seriously due to stuff like this, it seems like he just holds a jumble of confused opinions based on a deaf sense of workerism, ie there's intrinsic value to mining because its perceived as a major part of historic, stereotypical working class culture, especially in places like Britain. Yes mining isn't going to actually go away but I think its probably quite important to keep it at a minimum because its negative environmental effects are really hard to fight.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 02:57 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 07:08 |
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A big flaming stink posted:We have been shown over and over again that scientists' models of the effects of climate change have grossly underestimated the magnitude of those changes. You'd be a fool to assume that truly catastrophic effects are decades away May you show us a few report that shows earlier estimates and impacts of global warming were incorrect single report beyond a sensational Guardian article? Be specific, what catastrophic effects are decades away?
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 02:58 |
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A big flaming stink posted:how r u, the main disconnect between you and other posters in this thread is that you approach legislation like this under the mindset of "any progress is progress, and incremental efforts can compound on themselves" while many others tend to view these acts as "if things dont meet a certain threshold, our civilization is irrevocably hosed" and conclude these acts fall far short of that threshold I kind of agree with you here. I do indeed think that any progress is progress, and that incremental efforts over time compound on themselves and become something much bigger than they may have been to start with. As to your own view, well, I grappled with and endured a lot of depression about the very real possibility that our civilization is hosed. Indeed. Here's a few thoughts I have about that, today: 1) The future is not written in stone, it hasn't happened yet, so effort and progress are still worth making and fighting for. 2) "Irrevocably hosed" could mean a lot of different things. If it means anything other than "utter extinction of human beings" then I would say that any progress we can make as quickly as we can make it is still absolutely valuable in and of itself, because changes today mean the bar is lowered in the future. This progress that we're making today in the form of the IRA is a solid first step, even as a compromise with some bitter concessions. 3) If we are indeed "irrevocably hosed" the way you seem to be implying, which from what I'm picking up is fairly apocalyptic / extinction of humanity, then I myself, one man, cannot stop it. If it is on its way no matter what then it still seems to me that we should take every action we can as soon as we can to try to mitigate it and pray for a miracle while we're at it. I'll take whatever progress is possible today, fight for whatever progress is possible tomorrow, and never give up.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 03:22 |
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i would like to point out our civilization, as in how it is organized currently, is what is irrevocably hosed, i fully expect the human species to survive
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 06:38 |
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How are u posted:Since this is more of a fact-based climate change discussion thread rather than whatever that other thread is, could you provide some evidence that we'll be living in a "Mad Max-like hellscape" 20 years from now? Or define what you mean by that? Our great great grandfathers would be amazed to see the ease with which we draw clean potable water from a tap in our home, or switch on lights with barely a thought to the fact. Our great great grandkids will be amazed at the ease with which we drew clean potable water from a tap in our home, or switched on lights with barely a thought to the fact. Seriously, we're living in an era of comfort and ease that will be looked at with critical contempt by future generations.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 07:15 |
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How are u posted:Since this is more of a fact-based climate change discussion thread rather than whatever that other thread is, could you provide some evidence that we'll be living in a "Mad Max-like hellscape" 20 years from now? Or define what you mean by that? Other posters have done a better job at this (and props to 'em) but all I'll say is some towns in France actually ran out of drinking water this summer.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 07:35 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:May you show us a few report that shows earlier estimates and impacts of global warming were incorrect single report beyond a sensational Guardian article? Be specific, what catastrophic effects are decades away? Pretty sure the catastrophic effects are here, now. Just turn on any report on tv about farmers in France or Italy right now (hint: crops are failing). Hell, in the Netherlands farmers mixed with the alt-right are fighting tooth-and-nail against having to sell some animals for the climate goals.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 07:50 |
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Vitamin Me posted:Pretty sure the catastrophic effects are here, now. Just turn on any report on tv about farmers in France or Italy right now (hint: crops are failing). Hell, in the Netherlands farmers mixed with the alt-right are fighting tooth-and-nail against having to sell some animals for the climate goals. It's not just crops failing due to lack of water, it's also river transport(which includes lignite on the Rhine for germany) being impossible for the standard boats which is messing up logistics big time.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 10:56 |
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Drought just got officially declared in South-East England
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 13:46 |
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smug n stuff posted:Here’s an interesting read: https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2022/08/would-there-be-climate-change-under-socialism quote:The difference between capitalism and socialism with respect to climate change (or any other environmental problem) is that under the latter, once any ecological threat from a technology is discovered, the main barrier to switching away from that technology is the speed with which scientists and engineers can develop alternative technologies that don’t cause the identified harm while still delivering the same benefit. This is all hypothetical speculation of course but here's a fun article I read just today which is about whale hunting. Let's see what happened when everyone realized we murdered almost all the whales. https://arstechnica.com/science/2022/08/the-soviet-union-once-hunted-endangered-whales-to-the-brink-of-extinction/ quote:By the mid-1950s, even longtime whalers had to admit that big whales were becoming too scarce for their industries to be profitable. All nations except Japan began to ponder the end of whaling.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 19:56 |
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https://twitter.com/grist/status/1558157372165705730?s=21&t=i9IM54niWHPI1ksEHIHR8A
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:13 |
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Uranium Phoenix posted:I'm going to address the bolded claim, which I think is completely wrong. I agree that it's completely wrong and that was intended to be obvious irony. VOTE HARDER. I don't think any of the things you suggested are capable of meaningfully moving the bar at this point, either, but we might as well try because it's better than doing nothing! I'm a lot more focused on forming the kinds of networks that might make life here more tolerable under some foreseen eventualities than any kind of activism, but ultimately it comes down to trying to see what can be sourced locally, what can't be that we can just start living without now, and other things that are broadly aligned with making things more "sustainable". I will just personally be shocked if that matters, because I do generally think we're beyond hosed, I just don't let that be a reason to not be thoughtful and forward looking. Sharkie posted:Yep! Low-income households would only have to pay 70% of the cost of installing rooftop solar panels (they'd have to pay 100% up front but then they get a tax credit). If there's sufficient incentives for us to get out from under owning an oil tank and get a heat pump plus solar instead that would be great but I am not holding my breath. I don't think it's going to matter too much in terms of not having massive global famines etc in mine and my children's lifetimes, but it would probably make us generally healthier and let me not spend $6/gal on filthy poo poo I hate ordering. Cabbages and VHS fucked around with this message at 20:18 on Aug 12, 2022 |
# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:13 |
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BIG HEADLINE posted:Oh, whew. False alarm, everybody! The apocalypse is cancelled! username/post edit: LOL! They couldn't even get through the subheadline without walking it back astronomically
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 20:21 |
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theCalamity posted:https://twitter.com/grist/status/1558157372165705730?s=21&t=i9IM54niWHPI1ksEHIHR8A It's just funny at this point.
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 23:13 |
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https://www.tagesschau.de/inland/tote-fische-in-der-oder-hintergrund-101.html ah dang somebody killed the Oder
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 23:32 |
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Vitamin Me posted:Pretty sure the catastrophic effects are here, now. Just turn on any report on tv about farmers in France or Italy right now (hint: crops are failing). Hell, in the Netherlands farmers mixed with the alt-right are fighting tooth-and-nail against having to sell some animals for the climate goals. Okay but how does this dispute earlier estimates? Crosby B. Alfred posted:May you show us a few report that shows earlier estimates and impacts of global warming were incorrect single report beyond a sensational Guardian article? Be specific, what catastrophic effects are decades away?
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# ? Aug 12, 2022 23:47 |
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not sure where else to put this, but i follow them for climate change reasons so figured i'd try here https://twitter.com/EviationAero/status/1558241665717981184 this thing has been in-the-works with articles and renders for nearly a decade, they're finally gonna try and fly it this weekend if you want a hardcore deep dive into how the battery and body and engines were all designed together, this is a presentation the founder and former ceo gave to/at stanford a few months ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECLVueViDe0&t=3770s he got fired by the lead investor a week later, and the first flight got delayed, but it looks like this weekend may finally be it tldw for the video: - 9 passengers - 500 miles range - 800kwh li-ion battery MightyBigMinus fucked around with this message at 02:00 on Aug 13, 2022 |
# ? Aug 13, 2022 01:57 |
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Okay but how does this dispute earlier estimates? My whole point was that it doesn't matter what things were estimated, and if the actual results are greater/lesser..because we already are suffering disastrous effects. Anyway, I always pictured climate coverage to become like in the movies, where if there's an invasion or something all the tv networks shout about it lol. In reality, the earth can burn up and it will still be 1% of news between celebrity gossip and talkshows.
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# ? Aug 13, 2022 06:17 |
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What's the fail state of the incrementalist argument? At what point can a person proclaim poo poo's hosed without someone chirping about 10% emission reductions among beet canneries or some other hopeful gibberish? Will we be subjected to breathless reports about how rising deathtolls bring us ever closer to Paris goals? If they truly "never stop fighting" regardless of magnitude can we just replace them with an asterisk that reads "*Doom not absolute" in the footnotes? It contributes just as much to the conversation.
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 04:33 |
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shadow boxing the tone police never gets you anywhere
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 05:13 |
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https://twitter.com/guardian/status/1558526972371914754
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 06:18 |
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The thing I hadn't considered was the fact they can't run nuclear power plants because of how low and hot the rivers are. Kind of starts a chain of thought where you consider how climate change can gently caress other non polluting energy sources.
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 08:38 |
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So what you're saying is "cheap airline tickets to Europe soon?"
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 08:50 |
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a pipe smoking dog posted:The thing I hadn't considered was the fact they can't run nuclear power plants because of how low and hot the rivers are. Kind of starts a chain of thought where you consider how climate change can gently caress other non polluting energy sources. I think we've talked about this exact thing in the thread.ike rivers being too hot to effectively cool the reactor down due to climate change
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 08:55 |
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a pipe smoking dog posted:The thing I hadn't considered was the fact they can't run nuclear power plants because of how low and hot the rivers are. Kind of starts a chain of thought where you consider how climate change can gently caress other non polluting energy sources. Nuclear power isn't non-polluting at all, unless nuclear waste isn't "pollution" to you.
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 09:52 |
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Well, it's a pretty small issue. https://twitter.com/MadiHilly/status/1550148385931513856 His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Aug 14, 2022 |
# ? Aug 14, 2022 09:54 |
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Criss-cross posted:Nuclear power isn't non-polluting at all, unless nuclear waste isn't "pollution" to you. I guess pollutants by definition are interacting with the environment, so properly stored nuclear waste would not be a pollutant no
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 10:02 |
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Well, the most relevant thing here is that nuclear waste has no particular effect on the climate.
Clarste fucked around with this message at 11:16 on Aug 14, 2022 |
# ? Aug 14, 2022 11:13 |
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unless you count waste-heat, which you should
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 15:26 |
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MightyBigMinus posted:unless you count waste-heat, which you should This is just like the climate change deniers who think the world is getting warmer because there's more geothermal heat.
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 15:34 |
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Vitamin Me posted:My whole point was that it doesn't matter what things were estimated, and if the actual results are greater/lesser..because we already are suffering disastrous effects. There will be disastrous effects even under 1.5C but that doesn't mean it's going to end up like Mad Max or the Day After Tomorrow. Hell, even if we miss the Paris Accord it's unlikely that'll occur but it'll depend. Those in the Northern or Southern Hemisphere may not much of a difference. On the other hand, those near the equator right next to the ocean aren't going to have the best time.
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 17:54 |
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I thought the Mad Max comparison was mostly about societal breakdown which one could argue that we're beginning to see the beginnings of right now.
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 18:15 |
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There's no consensus on what it means because half the posters here have only seen Fury Road.
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# ? Aug 14, 2022 19:10 |
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https://twitter.com/YanQinyq/status/1559588325157126146 WSJ claims Germany plans to keep nuclear plants going, Germany says they haven't decided yet.
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# ? Aug 16, 2022 18:27 |
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Have the Germans finally decided to stop punching themselves in the balls?
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# ? Aug 16, 2022 18:45 |
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cat botherer posted:Have the Germans finally decided to stop punching themselves in the balls? This will be a sea-change in the German porn industry. But anyway, I really hope this is the case
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# ? Aug 16, 2022 18:49 |
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Biden signed the IRA into law a few minutes ago. This is a pivotal day for the USA in our fight to transition to a new clean economy. It's a lifetime's work, and this is just the beginning.
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# ? Aug 16, 2022 21:45 |
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How are u posted:Biden signed the IRA into law a few minutes ago. This is a pivotal day for the USA in our fight to transition to a new clean economy. It's a lifetime's work, and this is just the beginning. This will do nothing to avert the coming climate catastrophe. We simply do not have the time for incrementalism, and the climate does not give a drat about what is politically possible.
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# ? Aug 17, 2022 06:10 |
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A big flaming stink posted:This will do nothing to avert the coming climate catastrophe. We simply do not have the time for incrementalism, and the climate does not give a drat about what is politically possible. Pretty sure he was being facetious.
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# ? Aug 17, 2022 06:12 |
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# ? Jun 8, 2024 07:08 |
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Failed Imagineer posted:This will be a sea-change in the German porn industry.
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# ? Aug 17, 2022 15:16 |