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freebooter posted:I would've said Aliens Didn't all the marines in Aliens get slaughtered due to overconfidence and the survivors were saved by a space trucker and a little girl?
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Aug 21, 2022 09:53
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It's a thing because people have been raised on pro-military propaganda. It's not just because of the movie Starship Troopers; it's because we live in the kind of society that Starship Troopers depicts.
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Aug 21, 2022 10:53
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thotsky posted:It's a thing because people have been raised on pro-military propaganda. It's not just because of the movie Starship Troopers; it's because we live in the kind of society that Starship Troopers depicts.
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Aug 21, 2022 12:13
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BlankSystemDaemon posted:Wait, Heinlein was trying to say something in his books? Who knew! well, it's the movie that's a parody. the book is more like an angry letter suggesting that useless academy graduates got a bunch of people killed for no reason in korea and Vietnam dressed up as a sci fi novel. frankly heinlein is probably right about that. it doesn't have much else to say politically from what i remember other than the generic veteran opinion that being in the military makes you special
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Aug 21, 2022 12:49
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Larry Parrish posted:well, it's the movie that's a parody. the book is more like an angry letter suggesting that useless academy graduates got a bunch of people killed for no reason in korea and Vietnam dressed up as a sci fi novel. frankly heinlein is probably right about that. it doesn't have much else to say politically from what i remember other than the generic veteran opinion that being in the military makes you special
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Aug 21, 2022 13:08
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Larry Parrish posted:well, it's the movie that's a parody. the book is more like an angry letter suggesting that useless academy graduates got a bunch of people killed for no reason in korea and Vietnam dressed up as a sci fi novel. frankly heinlein is probably right about that. it doesn't have much else to say politically from what i remember other than the generic veteran opinion that being in the military makes you special Western society fell, because we stopped beating our kids, is what I remember.
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Aug 21, 2022 13:13
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genericnick posted:Western society fell, because we stopped beating our kids, is what I remember. i don't think people stopped that before he died, and definitely didn't stop that when he wrote the book lol
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Aug 21, 2022 13:16
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Larry Parrish posted:i don't think people stopped that before he died, and definitely didn't stop that when he wrote the book lol Heinlein posted:"Law-abiding people," Dubois had told us, "hardly dared go into a Though it's been decades by this point and I didn't remember the context. It's the teacher guy giving a lecture, but I vaguely remembered it coming from an authorial voice?
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Aug 21, 2022 13:40
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That lecture is absolutely intended as voice of author IMO, it's the closest the book gets to "definitive" history
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Aug 21, 2022 14:31
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It’s also written for the same reading level as the juveniles, poo poo Citizen of the Galaxy was IMO higher-level prose. And a better book.
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Aug 21, 2022 14:48
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never reading heinlein seems like a good decision so far
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Aug 21, 2022 16:41
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Doktor Avalanche posted:never reading heinlein seems like a good decision so far Starship troopers has a weird "beat your children" and "military pseudofascism is the way to go", but also prominently says this ubermensch culture that's better than liberal democracy is full of child abduction/rape/murder and random street violence. The moon is a harsh mistress is all about how libertarianism/anarchism is the way to go, but also prominently features group marriages to 13 year olds and the tacit acknowledgment that this only works with a Deus ex controlling everything behind the scenes. Stranger in a strange land probably has a bunch of inherent contradictions but I never managed to finish it cause it's really kinda dry and boring. I keep getting told it's a classic though. A better author might have written these contradictory things intentionally to make you think but Heinlein 100% just never noticed I'm sure.
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Aug 21, 2022 17:52
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Dune (#1) by Frank Herbert - $4.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B7NPRY8/ A Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire #1) by George RR Martin - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000QCS8TW/ Neptune's Brood by Charles Stross - $4.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00AR2RZ4K/
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Aug 21, 2022 18:11
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RDM posted:Nah you should read Heinlein's three good books, cause for their time they're not overly problematic, and they are classics. stranger in a strange land is all about how actually not being a group sex enjoying old man is really more of a social construct. also i remember a really cringe scene where a middle eastern character gets mad at not-Heinlein for being a filthy westerner who can't understand morality and his self insert goes actually I've read the Quran in the original Arabic'
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Aug 21, 2022 18:20
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Larry Parrish posted:stranger in a strange land is all about how actually not being a group sex enjoying old man is really more of a social construct. also i remember a really cringe scene where a middle eastern character gets mad at not-Heinlein for being a filthy westerner who can't understand morality and his self insert goes actually I've read the Quran in the original Arabic' It's been a long time since I read it but JOB: A Comedy of Justice didn't suck to me.
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Aug 21, 2022 18:32
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CaptainCrunch posted:Joel Shepherd's Spiral Wars? Yeah. I think it might be okay popcorn if it weren't intentionally written as a doorstopper, but as it is, I just can't get into any of Shepherd's books. Can't win 'em all when it comes to pulp.
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Aug 21, 2022 23:14
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I enjoyed Artifact Space by Miles Cameron even though (because) it was a rags to riches brilliant-heroine-against-dastardly-villains story. I think I just felt so lovely about where the protagonist started that I was relieved to see her make friends, save the day and find love-ish. Sometimes a good ol catharsis is all right.
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Aug 22, 2022 00:01
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General Battuta posted:I enjoyed Artifact Space by Miles Cameron even though (because) it was a rags to riches brilliant-heroine-against-dastardly-villains story. I think I just felt so lovely about where the protagonist started that I was relieved to see her make friends, save the day and find love-ish. Sometimes a good ol catharsis is all right.  And then it practically ends on a cliffhanger  Apparently he's planning two sequels, Deep Black and one as-yet-untitled one.
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Aug 22, 2022 00:16
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I'm incredibly burnt out on serious Malazan stories by Steven Erikson, and just want more Bauchelain and Korbal Broach, gay murderbros at large vs serious Malazan with it's incredible amount of wish-fullfillment/mary sue-style characters that keep cropping up.
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Aug 22, 2022 02:16
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ToxicFrog posted:
prioritising his (quite good) chivalry series though, with one book left to write before getting back to Deep Black and has written a sort of bronze age quasi historical piece in the meantime too.
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Aug 22, 2022 04:36
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General Battuta posted:I enjoyed Artifact Space by Miles Cameron even though (because) it was a rags to riches brilliant-heroine-against-dastardly-villains story. I think I just felt so lovely about where the protagonist started that I was relieved to see her make friends, save the day and find love-ish. Sometimes a good ol catharsis is all right. ToxicFrog posted:
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Aug 22, 2022 10:05
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ToxicFrog posted:
At least he writes fast. Counting all the books he writes as Christian Cameron, he's put out more than a book a year for the past decade and change.
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Aug 22, 2022 10:58
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Was there ever a conversation about Pierce Brown in this thread? I'm almost finished with the last book in the Red Rising trilogy and I can't believe I haven't heard of these books before. Theyre very well paced. The characters are all interesting. When people die, and they do a lot, they stay dead. After the first book it's like the Expanse meets Spartacus. The only thing I can think of that might have turned people off was the on the nose world-building about social mobility and identity politics.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:33
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It's come up a few times. I liked the first three books but didn't have much desire to start the second trilogy set 30 years later or whatever
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Aug 22, 2022 17:37
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AARD VARKMAN posted:It's come up a few times. I liked the first three books but didn't have much desire to start the second trilogy set 30 years later or whatever The first trilogy is a bit like Star Wars with fighting a mean Emperor. The second trilogy is about the messy business of actually trying to govern and I'm liking it a lot more than the first trilogy.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:54
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There's one Heinlein book where everyone lives in a cool post scarcity utopia. I don't remember the whole plot but I think they want to build a giant orrery to model the solar system (or maybe the whole galaxy). The purpose of their government economy department is to try to spend as much money as possible because they have too much of it. It was bizarre because it had this almost star trek like idyllic future but also very particular gender roles - men were expected to walk around armed and challenge each other to duels for their honor, but women could wear a bulletproof vest or something. I recall the narrator comments once that so-and-so is cowardly because he wears a <technonabble>, like a WOMAN. No idea what this book is called.
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Aug 22, 2022 19:33
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VostokProgram posted:There's one Heinlein book where everyone lives in a cool post scarcity utopia. I don't remember the whole plot but I think they want to build a giant orrery to model the solar system (or maybe the whole galaxy). The purpose of their government economy department is to try to spend as much money as possible because they have too much of it. It was bizarre because it had this almost star trek like idyllic future but also very particular gender roles - men were expected to walk around armed and challenge each other to duels for their honor, but women could wear a bulletproof vest or something. I recall the narrator comments once that so-and-so is cowardly because he wears a <technonabble>, like a WOMAN. I think that's the novel that got published posthumously. For Us, the Living maybe. EDIT: In googling this I'm reminded that For Us, the Living was his first novel that somebody went and found later to publish. I have also learned that the Heinlein estate has published an alternative version of Number of the Beast called Pursuit of Pankera that I guess has the same first 150-ish pages as the original but diverges completely from the first book after the Gay Deciever first jumps to an alternate reality. Danhenge fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 20:06
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VostokProgram posted:There's one Heinlein book where everyone lives in a cool post scarcity utopia. I don't remember the whole plot but I think they want to build a giant orrery to model the solar system (or maybe the whole galaxy). The purpose of their government economy department is to try to spend as much money as possible because they have too much of it. It was bizarre because it had this almost star trek like idyllic future but also very particular gender roles - men were expected to walk around armed and challenge each other to duels for their honor, but women could wear a bulletproof vest or something. I recall the narrator comments once that so-and-so is cowardly because he wears a <technonabble>, like a WOMAN. _Beyond this Horizon_. Perhaps most notable as the source of the quote ‘an armed society is a polite society’. Which, to be fair to Heinlein, does come from the mouth of a character who has never visited America.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:29
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Oh right, I forgot about that one.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:30
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Danhenge posted:I have also learned that the Heinlein estate has published an alternative version of Number of the Beast called Pursuit of Pankera that I guess has the same first 150-ish pages as the original but diverges completely from the first book after the Gay Deciever first jumps to an alternate reality. Too many uses of Burroughs and Doc Smith to clear the rights, IIRC.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:41
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ulmont posted:Too many uses of Burroughs and Doc Smith to clear the rights, IIRC. Which, now that I think about it, probably describes my feelings on Heinlein pretty well!
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Aug 22, 2022 22:21
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ulmont posted:Too many uses of Burroughs and Doc Smith to clear the rights, IIRC. Doesn’t the actual Number of the Beast novel have huge Burroughs/Lensman fanfic sections? Or is that what the new one cuts out?
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Aug 22, 2022 22:24
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Magician: Apprentice (Riftwar #1) by Raymond E Feist - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B073TJ3J3J/ How Long 'til Black Future Month? by NK Jemisin - $2.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07FSLQXY8/ The Gate of Gods (Fall of Ile-Rien #3) by Martha Wells - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FCKIAA/ Kiki's Delivery Service by Eiko Kadono - $1.99 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07ZC78XZF/
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Aug 22, 2022 23:13
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MartingaleJack posted:Was there ever a conversation about Pierce Brown in this thread? I'm almost finished with the last book in the Red Rising trilogy and I can't believe I haven't heard of these books before. Theyre very well paced. The characters are all interesting. When people die, and they do a lot, they stay dead. After the first book it's like the Expanse meets Spartacus. Is it the kind of on-the-nose where it'll make you sad by reminding you that real life is awful?
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Aug 22, 2022 23:22
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navyjack posted:Doesn’t the actual Number of the Beast novel have huge Burroughs/Lensman fanfic sections? Or is that what the new one cuts out? That’s what was cut out for the published version. Like even in published they briefly see Burroughs/Lensman worlds but in the original that’s where the back half of the book stays. https://www.tor.com/2020/04/09/long-lost-treasure-the-pursuit-of-the-pankera-vs-the-number-of-the-beast-by-robert-a-heinlein/
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Aug 23, 2022 00:01
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VostokProgram posted:There's one Heinlein book where everyone lives in a cool post scarcity utopia. I don't remember the whole plot but I think they want to build a giant orrery to model the solar system (or maybe the whole galaxy). The purpose of their government economy department is to try to spend as much money as possible because they have too much of it. It was bizarre because it had this almost star trek like idyllic future but also very particular gender roles - men were expected to walk around armed and challenge each other to duels for their honor, but women could wear a bulletproof vest or something. I recall the narrator comments once that so-and-so is cowardly because he wears a <technonabble>, like a WOMAN. Even after all the answers clarifying what Heinlein story that possibly was, that vague description feels like it came straight from one EE Smith's Skylark of Space books. Which makes sense since Robert Heinlein and EE Smith were best-friends-forever in reality.
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Aug 23, 2022 00:14
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It was definitely Beyond This Horizon, for the record. I remembered that once radmonger posted it
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Aug 23, 2022 00:52
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VostokProgram posted:Is it the kind of on-the-nose where it'll make you sad by reminding you that real life is awful? It's almost cartoonish in that aspect, it didn't really make me think about how hosed capitalism is I don't think. But I'm also terrible at critical thinking when it comes to media I consume.
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Aug 23, 2022 01:04
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More specifically, Skylark DuQuesne. The main white male "hero" lead of the series beams down to that planet layered head to toe in disguised forcefield technology and and frees a bunch of plot relevant psychic romani women by effortlessly shooting down anyone who gets in their way. There is a solar system sized orrery in Skylark DuQuesne too, and it is used to real-time monitor the enemy galaxy's status of being destroyed like how shift worker check-in/check-out tags work in a coal or salt mine. The psychic romani women are needed because amped up by super-technology they allow the 2 white hero leads + the series villain to form a group-mind that can literally transport planets and suns across billions of lightyears within pico-seconds so that an entire galaxy of evil aliens that threaten to discredit the white male American way of life can be genocided.
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Aug 23, 2022 01:06
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quantumfoam posted:More specifically, Skylark DuQuesne. Iirc in lensman they were hurling anti matter planets at each other by the third book, and it kept escalating from there
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Aug 23, 2022 01:36
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