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Shimrra Jamaane posted:It’s like poetry it...wait that doesn’t rhyme at all. It's a modern poem, it's not supposed to rhyme 
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Aug 22, 2022 12:53
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:It makes total and perfect sense that Aegon's Conquest was motivated by a desire to save Westeros, a continent he had no stake in, from an existential threat that were in no way a threat to Valyria or anywhere besides Westeros. You see, that's why as soon as Aegon became king, he told no one else about this threat and allowed knowledge of the threat to become a thing of literal myth and legend that no one took seriously. It's also why he and his heirs - all of whom were informed about the threat - allowed the literal bulwark that stood between Westeros and the threat to become undermanned and underfunded and to fall into disrepair, manned now largely by literal criminal scum rather than by knights and nobles. And why in either the three decades of Aegon's own direct rule and the three centuries of his descendants' rule, not a single Targaryen ruler did anything to try and address the threat. And, most of all, it checks out because in the end the threat was defeated in no way by the actions of any Targaryens but instead by a teenage assassin trained from an entirely unrelated family trained by an entirely unrelated sect of assassins. Oh come on put some effort into your criticism. Aegon did have a stake in Westeros - Valyria was gone and he lived on a tiny little island with no army next to a massive continent ruled by multiple warlords. Why would he have a practical stake in conquering a place like that? And how could Westeros be an existential threat to Valyria when there hadn’t been a Valyria for a 100 years? And it’s made clear that he did tell people about the dream - whomever his heir was at the time. If he told no-one, no-one would know. Also Night’s Watch hadn’t really fallen into disrepair yet and wouldn’t for a few more generations, folks like Alysanr were selling all their jewels to make them new castles. I guess your last point isn’t completely stupid and easily refuted, though. Also, paragraph breaks make things easier to read.
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Aug 22, 2022 13:40
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Why did the Targaryans allow the Starks to whither and die and with them the Nights Watch long before the craziness that caused them to forget the prophecy happened?
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Aug 22, 2022 13:58
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'What if William the Conqueror had a dragon' was fine, maybe George 'Author of the Mercy Chapter' Martin should finish his books before retroactively changing anything
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Aug 22, 2022 14:07
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One of the reasons he wont finish them is because he is retroactively changing stuff Its part of his gardening
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Aug 22, 2022 14:14
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Elias_Maluco posted:One of the reasons he wont finish them is because he is retroactively changing stuff I want GRRM to announce he’s beginning the entire series from scratch so as to better fit his newly developed vision.
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Aug 22, 2022 14:26
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I was watching some GRRM interviews and he said "maybe Aegon did foresee what was coming and wanted to unify the 7 kingdoms in preparation for it"
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Aug 22, 2022 14:32
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Typo posted:I was watching some GRRM interviews and he said "maybe Aegon did foresee what was coming and wanted to unify the 7 kingdoms in preparation for it" Since GRRM hasn’t publicly produced any loving new material from the main series since ADWD was published 11 years ago (remember that every Winds preview chapter is poo poo cut from either Crows or Dance) everything he’s said about the plot for a decade regarding his intentions or ideas should be treated as poo poo he only just recently thought of. So yeah he was talking about this dumb prophecy thing maybe being a thing around the time Fire and Blood was published in 2018. That doesn’t mean he had any inkling of it back when he wrote Swords in 2000.
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Aug 22, 2022 14:39
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Typo posted:I was watching some GRRM interviews and he said "maybe Aegon did foresee what was coming and wanted to unify the 7 kingdoms in preparation for it" Yeah no, that’s some George Lucas wannabe poo poo.
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Aug 22, 2022 14:57
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Why would you unify the kingdoms if the best course of action is just to train a bunch of spunky teenage ninja girls and give them dinky volcanic knives? Without the dragons the others could only stand under the wall and yell insults at the nightswatch like that scene from the holy grail. It's like GRRM sort of forgot that his story had no payoff and ended with an icy fart.
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Aug 22, 2022 15:08
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Aegon the Conquerer is Darth Revan got it.
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Aug 22, 2022 15:52
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emanresu tnuocca posted:Why would you unify the kingdoms if the best course of action is just to train a bunch of spunky teenage ninja girls and give them dinky volcanic knives? Without the dragons the others could only stand under the wall and yell insults at the nightswatch like that scene from the holy grail. It's like GRRM sort of forgot that his story had no payoff and ended with an icy fart. Yeah this is definitely my biggest issue with the last scene of that episode. It would have been really cool and ominous foreshadowing if they hadn’t totally hosed up the ending with hastily written fanservice-y bullshit. As it stands I feel like continuing to watch this series after that final scene would be like…. I don’t know, willingly sitting down and listening to a really long shaggy-dog story when you already know that the ending will have absolutely nothing to do with any of the cool and mysterious prophecy/foreshadowing about icy threats to the world of men. Really, the more I think about the stupider and more pointless that scene (and the whole series) becomes.  Also it actually kinda really bothered me that Rhaenys was referred to several times as “The Queen who never was” when I thought it was pretty clear that this was a POSTHUMOUS title awarded to her by history - wouldn’t make a lot of sense to call her that while she was still alive and the succession still in doubt, as Corlys points out in the episode it’s not as if her claim (or the claim of her son Laenor) were totally dead and buried at this point. On a practical level I understand labeling her that way instead of just calling her “Princess Rhaenys” given that the ostensible protagonist is named Princess Rhaenyra. Let’s see… I actually quite enjoyed the jousting scene between Cristen Cole and Daemon - smart of them to set that conflict up right away because I think the idea is that those two guys end up hating one another so loving much they drag the entire rest of Westeros into it. I mean there’s going to be a very obvious love triangle between those two and Rhaenyra which will turn toxic and bad when Cole finds out Daemon has been “training” her and she throws herself at him - or something like that, the details are intentionally murky in the book. But anyway, it was a cool jousting scene and that part of the episode I found quite enjoyable. It was also fun just seeing all these characters brought to life, on a basic level.
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Aug 22, 2022 16:25
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700 foot wall that needs an elevator to get to the top. But let’s put a bigass door in the middle I guess.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:17
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Elias_Maluco posted:One of the reasons he wont finish them is because he is retroactively changing stuff well it is important in gardening to fling poo poo everywhere
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Aug 22, 2022 17:27
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anyways i'm gathering you all didn't like the episode. I'm not gonna bother with it for now considering there's so much good stuff out there
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Aug 22, 2022 17:29
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kaworu posted:Oh come on put some effort into your criticism. Aegon did have a stake in Westeros - Valyria was gone and he lived on a tiny little island with no army next to a massive continent ruled by multiple warlords. Why would he have a practical stake in conquering a place like that? And how could Westeros be an existential threat to Valyria when there hadn’t been a Valyria for a 100 years? Fair,, I forgot Aegon and friends were already on Dragonstone. And why did he tell only his heirs, no one else? Not the people he was uniting solely to fight this great threat? "I'm bringing you all together to fight an existential threat. No, I will not tell you what this threat is. In fact, forget I said any of this. I'd rather you all resent me as a conqueror rather than as the benevolent dictator I am." There is no loving way to jive this retcon with the behavior of the Targaryens in general and Aegon in particular.
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Aug 22, 2022 17:47
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Shageletic posted:anyways i'm gathering you all didn't like the episode. I'm not gonna bother with it for now considering there's so much good stuff out there I liked it fine.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:33
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let's just ignore this retcon it's dumb af it's better when Aegon was the answer to "what if William the conqueror had dragons" and the answer was "they would have the same motivation as the historical William but only now he can beat bigger armies since he has dragons" it's like if you think about it obvsly it dragons existed the nobility would use them to carve out their own kingdoms. Fire and Blood actually did a pretty good job in drawing out how -governing- a meidival kingdom would be like if you had dragons. Sure you can burn down armies in the field against you but how do you deal with guerrilla bands who just refuse to fight in the open field against you but keep murdering your governors and ambush your soldiers? How do you deal with the church excommunicating the king? What about succession crisis within the dragon-riding nobility? What about if some town refuses to pay their taxes because their charter from 100 years ago kind of sort of grants them immunity from said taxation. You can't possibly burn them all down. Eventually you are going to have to come to the sort of uneasy comprimise between the crown and other elements of feudal society that historical monarchs came to. "Well actually PROPHECY" is :facepalm: Typo fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 18:34
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Guys… it wasn’t that bad. If in four-five more episodes it faceplants, then ok. But no sense in writing it off already. I quite liked this episode overall.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:41
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The one part that is kind of interesting is seeing actual tamed dragons. Watching the tenders handle them was kind of cool.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:42
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The first eps is 9.1 on IMDB atm But since the critics had the first 6 eps for all we know it rly falls apart lol
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Aug 22, 2022 18:45
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I still enjoy Game of Thrones, the books and the show. I have issues with the last few seasons but still enjoyed it overall. I also hope one day the story is completed, but we’ll see. I have Fire and Blood on hardback but haven’t read it and as of yet haven’t seen the new show. Maybe one day I will. That’s all for now.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:56
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Typo posted:let's just ignore this retcon it's dumb af I don’t mind the prophesy as dumb as it is if it worked as good dickhead justification that a ruling family with dragons tells themselves to justify their actions. Even in the current setting it works. The issue is GOT is out and it’s their to paint here as the in the right heroine instead of a bunch of scheming shits.
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Aug 22, 2022 18:59
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Pros: -The visual design is quite good. Sets feel real and populated with people, which is nice after how empty of life late GoT scenes were. Clothing is good, armor is good. Lines are fine, but there is the problem with sound and delivery from some actors. -The birthing scene was powerful and incredible. -The pre-release hype of Paddy Considine as Viserys was earned. He definitely is a highlight. Cons: -The intro was weak. It was basically one of those cliche old "IN THE BEGINNING" exposition dumps and came off as amateurish. Compare it to the excellent first scene of GoT and there's no real competition as to which one's better. The ending was also a bad hook to the next episode. S1E1 of GoT ended with a child catching the queen and her brother screwing and the brother kills him. This one ends with fantasy prophecy that culminates in the episode of GoT that finally had average people realizing the show was in decline. -There's no real fun. People are dying and smirking and fuming and there's some lightheartedness, but Episode 1 of GoT had a lot of just fun moments that made the characters pop. -This is my personal hang-up but I do not like -The sound design is par for the course with bad modern sound design, too. Why do doors in movies and TV these days open and close at the volume of a sonic boom while people whisper at each other from across the room? Overall, I think it's okay, I just don't think it has a hook. I remember book fans and people like Lindsay Ellis rolling their eyes at the original series' selling line of: "It's fantasy for people who hate fantasy." Their response usually didn't really address the point that Got felt human and tangible, and not full of weighty, faux-classical monologues about "WHY DOTH WE FIGHT?" I think this feels like fantasy for people who don't love or hate fantasy, but kind of like fantasy. Pennsylvanian fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 19:05
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Pennsylvanian posted:
I am nitpicking here, but we haven’t seen D’arcy yet. She will be playing Rhaenyra after a time jump at some point this season. Your points about the young Rhaenyra actress, I agree with though
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Aug 22, 2022 19:12
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MrMojok posted:Guys… it wasn’t that bad. If in four-five more episodes it faceplants, then ok. But no sense in writing it off already. Maybe I'll watch when season 2 is about to come out if the thread doesn't hate it
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Aug 22, 2022 19:12
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MrMojok posted:I am nitpicking here, but we haven’t seen D’arcy yet. She will be playing Rhaenyra after a time jump at some point this season. My mistake. I didn't check close enough. disaster pastor posted:Quick note: Emma D'Arcy uses they/them. Also my bad. Pennsylvanian fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Aug 22, 2022 |
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Aug 22, 2022 19:18
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Quick note: Emma D'Arcy uses they/them.
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Aug 22, 2022 20:40
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Watched the dragon fuckers show because there was nothing else on on a Sunday night. Not really sold on it yet, but whatever, Warner Bros. is going to cancel it anyway so they can get a tax write off, but Matt Smith playing a charismatic cuckoo for cocoa puffs motherfucker might be enough to keep me tuning in. I want to see him gently caress everything up in comically grotesque ways. Love how they started the show off with basically a written apology going "We're sorry those other two dipshits made Dany go crazy and then killed her, please love us again."
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Aug 22, 2022 22:24
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I like hearing Graham McTavish grumble his way through roles.
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Aug 23, 2022 03:01
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Arc Hammer posted:I like hearing Graham McTavish grumble his way through roles. I thought I recognized that bald dude
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Aug 23, 2022 03:34
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The more I think about the Targ prophecy retcon the less it makes sense: - There are at least a handful of examples of Targ lines of succession getting muddled or contested, kings dying abruptly without designated heirs, etc. By all accounts the secret would've been lost way before the Targ civil war. - There was not a Targ on the throne when the Night King went down, so either that part was a lie or the big victory was a fake out. - There are several accounts of Targs dragons refusing to go north of the wall, and Targs seemingly have no interest in either dragonglass or the Children of the Forest, aside from Bloodraven. Even Aegon only stayed in the north long enough to hear fealty oaths before bouncing. - Where do all the other religions fit into this? The fire priests are obviously the real deal, but apparently none of them thought to get close to a Targ for several centuries? My guess is that the prophecy as it has been stated so far is incomplete - there's going to be something else added that makes it Jon being half Targ, half Stark more significant, and that aspect is going to be the lead in for whatever spin-off vehicle Harrington is developing. The whole thing reeks of GRRM getting insecure and now flailing in an attempt to once again "subvert expectations". The show ending didn't really suck you see, the American Tolkien was just three steps ahead of you with a bunch of material that none of the other books even hinted at and that can only be properly developed and revealed through an as yet undetermined number of spin-offs! Talk about going out sad.
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Aug 23, 2022 03:52
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Mat Cauthon posted:The more I think about the Targ prophecy retcon the less it makes sense: I mean, if House of the Dragon is both canon to and congruent with Game of Thrones, then the prophecy is absolute bullshit anyway because we've seen it come to fruition*, and the actual end game is either "The cousin of Prince That Was Promised shall bring the dawn while the Prince That Was Promised screams at a dragon corpse for ten minutes" OR "The Princess Who Was Promised shall bring the dawn by buring down King's Landing for no reason and then getting stabbed to death by her nephew." Truly, this was a Song of Ice and Fire. The songest of Ice and Fire that was ever sung. nine-gear crow fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 04:10
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Finished watching the first episode. Not GOT season 1 tier but better than most dreck, by a slim margin. The show does have bright spots with the casting of Considine and Smith being the standouts. The CGI was dogshit and really emphasized how the CGI industry has been ground into a fine paste in the last five years. The golden dragon looked as bad as the golden dragon from The Witcher that everyone made fun of next to Drogon. You can't rely on visuals to sell your show when they look terrible (like Matt Smith's halloween costume armour at the joust) so you're left with the acting and the writing. It's not season 8 levels of bad, yet. More like Season 6 where it's definitely gone downhill but not quite at the bottom just yet. I fully expect to plumb that depth before long though.
Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Aug 23, 2022 |
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Aug 23, 2022 04:24
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The retconning is a way to disavow the ending of GoT and say the true ending is in the books ASOIAF, and once he just rewrites them 2 more times he'll totally wrap up everything in a satisfactory way. Totally. If only those pesky nerds would let him finish his in-city castle then he'd be able to focus and concentrate. Once the construction is done. On that. And his other railroad, which he needs.
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Aug 23, 2022 05:53
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The only good scene in the show: https://twitter.com/ChaseJSuddarth/status/1561568294225715201/video/1 The wigs are so bad that it actively detracts from the scene since it looks so out of place. It’s like seeing a Starbucks mug or someone wearing a digital watch.
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Aug 23, 2022 06:09
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I thought the prophecy was kind of dumb, but it does have some book references and to me at least I just see it as some dhalfassed justification for their rule that they tell themselves so they can feel good about being evil black-armored dragon dictators. They are the evil empire they just need to pretend to themselves that they are good people. Maybe at some point Aegon the Conqueror actually believed this or something but at this point it's just a story that they tell their kids to basically lean on Divine Right in a show/book that for the most part ignores religion.
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Aug 23, 2022 06:34
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If that whole “prophecy” scene really is just a way for them to disavow the horribly lovely, rushed, botched and incomplete ending that was offered to us by Season 8 of the TV show, then quite frankly I am *all for it*; and more power to them. I’m not really sure that’s what the actual intention is, but I don’t see that as being creatively bankrupt or disingenuous or one more “the ending is still coming keep buying my poo poo!” scam from GRRM. Mostly because that ending offered by the TV show was really and truly awful, nonsensical, and unsatisfying in nearly every imaginable way. If I were in his shoes, I’d want to disavow it and label it is non-canon, which is what I sincerely hope he officially does.
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Aug 23, 2022 09:49
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As an aside and on some dumb Targ writing things, I was talking about this the other day with a friend and like, I feel like the Blackfyre Rebellion is kind of comically understated? Like what i mean is that if Aegon IV legitimizes all his bastards, the ensuing succession crisis when he died should have been far worse than the First Blackfyre Rebellion. Like it should have been a clusterfuck of open war or mass assassinations to make the Dance seem small scale. Even without Dragons. Like, even if you want to argue that 'oh, Westeros lucked out and most of Aegon's bastards were women and only Aegor and Daemon were willing to push their claims' so what? Aegon was well known to have basically used the nobility of Westeros as his pimps. Even if it's not true, it would be trivial for some ambitious lord to claim that they are one of Aegon's many bastards.
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Aug 23, 2022 12:46
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This show takes place 100% in the TV show canon. Is inseparable. It’s like the Hobbit prequel trilogy in relation to the LoTR trilogy. There is no getting around that ultimately all these plots in HoTD end in stupid unsatisfactory bullshit.
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Aug 23, 2022 13:01
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