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wedgie deliverer posted:The first generation of American kids who trained in BJJ from a young age are gonna be insane. Niche sport, with the resources and psycho sports parents of bigger sports behind them. Cole Abate is just the first. we have a 15 year old who isn't even allowed to have a blue belt yet and who is competitive with the purple and brown belts.
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Aug 23, 2022 17:03
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Xguard86 posted:We've got a 17 year old who's like 6ft 4 and beats pretty much the entire gym. Another who's not quite as gigantic or good but can compete vs grown men already. We got a 14 year old that is like 1/3 my weight and already dominates me with speed. Its loving scary what he will be like in 10 years.
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Aug 23, 2022 17:13
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CommonShore posted:we have a 15 year old who isn't even allowed to have a blue belt yet and who is competitive with the purple and brown belts. Yeah the belt system becomes pretty broken in such cases
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Aug 23, 2022 17:30
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Count Roland posted:Yeah the belt system becomes pretty broken in such cases I really like how in Judo brown belts often are allowed to just compete with black belts at most tournaments. BJJ might benefit from a similar approach, with fewer divisions and more competition. Yes, there will be skill gaps. The point is to let people compete through those gaps.
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Aug 23, 2022 17:34
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Yeah Judo just has two belt rank divisions - beginner and advanced, which splits around green or blue belt depending on the age division. By "competitive" for this kid I mean just in the gym. He (like me) is one of these people who doesn't give two shits about competition anymore. He did some youth wrestling and bjj competitions, and got some gold medals, but then decided it wasn't for him. Now just likes to show up to the gym and grapple with friends.
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Aug 23, 2022 17:50
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Thinking about it and I've actually trained under two mid 20's BB who were age limited and got their belts on their 18th birthdays. Just at the edge of that generation.
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Aug 23, 2022 19:59
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Any advice on new white belts twice your size and athletic ability and nearly half your age? I'm just about demoralized. My technique is good enough to work for about two minutes and then I'm hosed. I just did nothing but heavy defense after that 2mim and kept telling them to chill out when they were ripping arm bars like it's the ADCC finals. Eventually gave up rolling today and yesterday before class was over, especially because I'm fresh off a knee injury. That was in the back of my mind the entire time they mauled me. Talked to the coach about it so he can address the situation but at the new spot my rolls look like they're gonna be hella limited. Guess it's a good time for me to consider bjj as self defense against angry gorillas. EDIT: these kids don't mean any malice. They just don't know how to dial it back. They're kinda freaked out and have some ego I think.
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Aug 24, 2022 03:30
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knuthgrush posted:Any advice on new white belts twice your size and athletic ability and nearly half your age? I'm just about demoralized. My technique is good enough to work for about two minutes and then I'm hosed. I just did nothing but heavy defense after that 2mim and kept telling them to chill out when they were ripping arm bars like it's the ADCC finals. Eventually gave up rolling today and yesterday before class was over, especially because I'm fresh off a knee injury. That was in the back of my mind the entire time they mauled me. You have the right to refuse to roll with people you don't think are safe. This isn't fight club, and good for you for bringing this up to your coach. That being said, if you do want to roll them, you're going to spend 90% of the time on top. You do not, repeat do not go for subs until the very end of the round. A sub causes a reset, which is the last thing you want. Rather you gotta wear their rear end out with heavy positions and take the starch outta them. If that's not possible, then yeah, you're gonna have a bad time.
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Aug 24, 2022 03:49
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I very much agree with this sentiment - never accept bottom. They want to walk forward on their knees? Time to work those snapdowns to front headlock or arm drags. Go for exhaustion, not quick taps. Craig Jones' Power Ride is a really good reference for this. It's a bunch of really tiring pins that will net you zero points in actual competition but will make your opponent either wear your weight or flail to try to get out and waste a lot of energy. Once you've got them nice and gassed, that's the time to work into that submitting position. When they sound like they just finished a 800 yard sprint, get that tap. Repeat. Then again, this can also reinforce a couple of bad habits: stalling, and being more focussed on winning the practice roll than learning. Also agreed on "if you don't feel safe rolling with them, then don't." There's no shame in that.
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Aug 24, 2022 03:58
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Speaking of being exhausted, I think I just completed one of the toughest competition classes Ive ever been through. My instructor is old school Brazilian insane (but Im glad to have him teaching me). Banging the shinai on the ground "30 MORE SECONDS!!! PASS!!!! PASS!!!!! MOOOOOOVE!!". me: 
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Aug 24, 2022 06:29
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against guys like that when on bottom I just constantly move backward and try to slip onto their backs and/or guillotine them. Butterfly guard and z guard work particularly well for me.
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Aug 24, 2022 14:58
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Plenty of good advice above. I'll usually pull guard against those kinds of guys 'cause my standup game is weak and even though I'm confident in my breakfalls, there's still too much of a risk of them landing sideways on my knee or something. If they try to pass low, all of the stuff CommonShore listed is great, as are arm drags and reverse kimuras. Closed guard is good too if your legs are long enough, but it becomes even more important with big guys to cut an angle, get off your back, and control their posture. If they try to pass standing, the tripod sweep is a great equalizer and sets you up nicely for leg entanglements, which is another good way to keep them from putting weight on you. Shin-to-shin guard is another solid option--low singles, wrestling up on a double leg if they step too narrowly for a second, etc. If you're in the gi, gripping the lapel tail from there makes it even better. Ultimately, though, it's not your responsibility to roll with anyone whom you don't trust to do so safely. I don't know if it works with yours and the gym's schedules, but you could try going to other sessions that might have demographics closer to yours, or failing that, see if another gym is a better fit.
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Aug 24, 2022 16:48
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Hello grapple thread. I'm a crummy and hurt hobbyist judoka who hasn't done anything in years. I usually lurk because I have nothing valuable to contribute but today I have a request for advice from you. I have my son in BJJ. It's a really good class and I really like the instructor, who is a very dedicated purple belt and excellent with kids. My son is eight and has attended class for a year. Personality wise, he enjoys sparring but is, you know, eight years old, so effort and focus is a bit spotty. All ok stuff, no complaints here. He also swims a bit so he's got decent conditioning but not a lot of raw power. Other than that he avoids physical activity and is not a natural athlete. There's an issue with one of the students he spars with. She is a wrestler who started taking BJJ to supplement her grappling, which I really respect. She's about 11 and a good bit bigger than my son. As I mentioned she's in the youth wrestling program and in competitions so she's got great conditioning and strength. It's quite the uphill battle. The issue is this: during open sparring she keeps selecting my son, then just flattening him out and pinning him, and then doing absolutely nothing else. She's not going for submission, or doing BJJ. It's a pure wrestling technique into a pin and then sits there. What is weird is that she's using BJJ with kids her size, it's only my son that this is occurring with. She also doesn't do this with any other little kids. This is causing a great deal of distress to my son. There's a couple of things exacerbating this situation. The first is, you're not allowed to say no to a sparring request. I suspect this is because in the kid's class and there was some previous shenanigans with cliques or whatever. Fine, ok, but that means my son can't dodge her. The second issue is that the coach (who again I must stress I really like) is a "never say die" type who doesn't think you should tap from pressure and encourages the kids to give it their all. So his advice to my son is to try to create space from the bottom, but the mechanical and physical disadvantages here are enormous and he is unable to do so. The third issue is that my son is a "never say die" type himself who won't tap until his opponent is locked in really tight as well, even though I've had the coach repeatedly talk to him about this. He will simply lay there thrashing in the pin with a miserable look on his face. Which brings us to the fourth issue: my son is now getting bummed out and negative toward BJJ because every session comes with a free 3 minute drill of getting absolutely demolished by this wrestler, headlocked, snapped down, pinned and unable to escape despite his best efforts. It's caused some actual tears outside the dojo (he hides it in class). She's not nice to him, folks. I've got to be honest here, that there's an emotional component that's coming up as well. It's really personally angering me to see this wrestler quite literally sprint over to my son during open sparring so she can pick him and smash him as her rest roll, because it's having such a negative impact on him mentally. I'm not going to act on anger but I do want some advice. As I see it the two paths forward are: 1) Talk to the coach about this dynamic. This would be the third time I've talked to the coach specifically about situations involving my son over the last year. The first was a kid who did dangerous neck cranks on him when he first started. The resolution here was that the kid was talked to, then he quit because it turns out that this particular kid was actually trying to hurt the others, that's why they were there. The second was a beefy kid judoka who kept pinning him with a Kese Gatame and doing nothing else, so a bit like this current situation. This wasn't just my son in this case, the kid was doing it to everyone and it was causing problems. The resolution there was that they taught the entire class how to handle it. What's keeping me from this is that I don't want to be considered a problem or helicopter dad who comes running to the coach whenever there is a problem. This dojo also has a judo side I want to attend eventually and there's a ton of overlap between the Judo side and the BJJ side, so I don't want a reputation. 2) Talk to my son about his lack of tapping and how it's hurting him. I'm already doing this but I could step it up to consequences tier and force compliance. I don't want to do that. To be honest, he's always struggled with "the shame" (his words) of tapping even though I've pointed out that black belts have tapped thousands of times to get there. This will always be a struggle at this age, as he's eight so he's not rational about this, it just feels really bad to him to quit. In many cases that's an admirable thing. I'm seriously worried about sending him the wrong signal here and telling him to give up because in 95% of situations not quitting is the right move. And I'm worried by the time I get through to him about this particular situation it will be too late and BJJ class will have been poisoned for him. So I really don't know what to do. Perhaps there's a third option I haven't even considered, and this thread has always given out very grounded advice, so I'm asking for some. This is the closest we've ever gotten to quitting BJJ and this is a big part of it, and I don't want that to happen. Thanks for any input.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:02
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:1) Talk to the coach about this dynamic. This is the correct path forward. You need to find the best environment for your son to learn and work with his coaches to create that environment. Kids are weird and bad at communicating their feelings - something very obvious to you might not be obvious to anyone else.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:11
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That is an extremely good post and I'm not at all trying to short change it with a brief reply, but I want to ask: what are your options for other gyms? Are there any nearby he could visit and try? Edit: we have a smaller than average kid in our big kids (7 -12ish) class that everyone, especially the otherwise timid children with less confidence, always wanna select and go HAM on. We assign out partners, and don't assign him to unsafe people, and there's even an understanding among our more proficient and experienced kids that there's such a thing as taking it easy on someone newer or smaller without being condescending about it, which is an extremely gratifying attribute to see them developing. Jack B Nimble fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 18:12
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Tacos Al Pastor posted:We got a 14 year old that is like 1/3 my weight and already dominates me with speed. Its loving scary what he will be like in 10 years. A week ago I us sparred with our newest and youngest blue belt. He's 16 and started one year ago. He didn't know a single move back then and now he's competition blue belt and gave me one hell of a lesson on the mat. Then again I noticed that he was a serious opponent to our older black belts as well. He was not not submitting our BB's, but I noticed they had to change from a friendly sparring to their A-game. The thing is, that the 16 year old kid has been training in the competition team and he has trained literally every day. Young, fast and strong. I fear what comes next. Also, our 13 year old girls had to change from junior team to adult competition team. The junior comps and junior training are no challenge anymore. They are already submitting adults.
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Aug 24, 2022 18:13
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Jack B Nimble posted:That is an extremely good post and I'm not at all trying to short change it with a brief reply, but I want to ask: what are your options for other gyms? Are there any nearby he could visit and try? I don't feel short changed and appreciate all input. Thank you. There's a place that's closer, but it's some real Cobra Kai poo poo that's way too aggressive. This current gym is really really good for him in terms of environment. My son is actually a very tender soul who feels bad for getting submissions on the rare occasion he gets them, he likes just applying techniques and really loves escapes. I have jokingly referred to one of his systems as the "R.L. Stine sequence" where he gets mount, moves up, and then....proceeds to ask the kid about their favorite books. He's the kid that every new student gets assigned as their very first training partner, as he has decent mechanics and knowledge but is pretty gentle on offense. However he also has a will of steel, and even the big kids admire how long he'll hang in a choke, or some of the scrambles he manages to pull off (when they pick him as their rest roll they usually go pretty hard on him at first because he specifically asks them to, but after one sub - if they can get it - they go easy on him and just teach him moves or drill stuff with him and he's fine with that). I'm actually very proud of him, he's got a good heart. So this latest development is really weighing on me. I guess I'm going to have to talk to the coach. He and I have a good relationship and he knows I care, so I guess I'll just have to damp down my worries and talk about this. I will still work on the tapping thing too. Megaman's Jockstrap fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Aug 24, 2022 |
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Aug 24, 2022 18:32
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Thanks for the tips, y'all. Not accepting bottom definitely seems like the way to go. I rarely try to sub new folks, i just try to take it easy and put them in positions that let them work what they're learning or that set them up for subs on me so they can enjoy that. I take my hard rolls with the upper belts. I do have some apprehension that if I try to wear them out wrestling or taking their back, they're just gonna get frustrated and try harder to gently caress me up. I think mount is the best option. The last time I had one of these encounters, I managed to sweep the dude and just lay on him the rest of the round and he mellowed out on the next roll. I might try that. These dudes don't seem to have any chill though. One of them dropped on me so hard in side control it nearly cracked my ribs and they rip arm bar attempts like they want to mount my limbs above their fireplaces as trophies. One of the guys I quit rolling with mid-roll after asking him to calm down twice and I won't roll with him again. I'll give the other guy another chance, though. I have no issue not rolling with certain people, I've done it before. And usually new folks are cool and i can control them OK when they spaz but most new folks aren't 6'5 no neck mutant monsters with seemingly endless gas tanks. I miss the crew at the previous gym but I'm gonna keep showing up here. I think the tide can turn and a good group will settle in over time.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:23
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If the coach is worth his salt he won't judge you for speaking up about this. The older kids going after a particular smaller kid is a common problem in teaching grappling to kids that age and it's something that the coaches need to stay on top of. That girl 100% needs a talkin' to if she's targeting him, especially when it's an 11 year old going after an 8 year old. Would the same situation fly if it were an adult heavyweight blue belt and a welterweight white belt? Hell no. Shouldn't fly in the kids class either. Mind you, 1 and 2 aren't mutually exclusive. It doesn't hurt to tell your son that in practice a tap means "we've learned what we can from this position today, so it's a waste of time to stay here for the rest of the round and we should restart." It's a good habit to start early.
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Aug 24, 2022 19:52
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CommonShore posted:Mind you, 1 and 2 aren't mutually exclusive. It doesn't hurt to tell your son that in practice a tap means "we've learned what we can from this position today, so it's a waste of time to stay here for the rest of the round and we should restart." It's a good habit to start early. This is a really great way to frame it and one that I have not tried before. Thank you.
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Aug 24, 2022 20:09
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:kid grappling Ill be honest: I see most of this as a coaching problem and not so much a kid problem. While he should be creating space, the assumption is always that the person on the bottom should be the one moving (creating space) and never the one on top. You got the pin right? So you shouldn't have to move? WRONG. Jiu Jitsu is about constant movement, not just from the person on bottom, but from the person on top as well. If this girl isnt moving past the pin, then how is her jiu jitsu improving? Shes not gaining anything either and neither is your son. This coach should not be under the assumption that someone that is in a dominate position that is outweighing the bottom person is somehow doing "good" or "winning". A good school will show that there are transitions from kesa to say north south or back to side control or taking the back. This will give your son chances to practice his escapes from those positions too and to remember them through the transitions. This is an important part of training for everyone, adults included. If you get a submission, great, but holding a pin as a bigger kid is just unacceptable to me. I would be yelling at her to move to the next transition if I was coach. What does the coach do when he sees this behavior happen?? If hes worth a poo poo, he should be at least seeing it. In the gym I am in, kids are matched up by either belt rank or size. Same goes for the adults for the most part. If he is not matching them up by size and experience, he is doing the kids a great injustice IMO. Its more important for each kid to be given the opportunity to show that they can escape a pin, even if it means someone much larger letting off a bit so the kid can practice his move. I understand sparring is preparation for competition, 100%, but there is also an aspect that kids should want to have fun, and fun partially means improvement and the self confidence that brings. These are the things I would be bring up with the coach: 1. Matching sparring by belt rank 2. Matching kids by size. If one kid outweighs another by 30 lbs that probably is not a good matchup. 3. Pinning someone for 1 or 2 minutes during a five minute sparring round probably isnt helping any kid. Encourage them to move. Also if there are cliques, GTFO out of there. I mean it, from personal experience. Cliques are the death of any gym and will divide it. Avoid these places at all costs. Also how is this girl doing against the higher ranked kids in that age at are her weight? Is she getting her rear end kicked?
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Aug 25, 2022 00:07
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100% a situation where the coach should be choosing all the matchups, or at the least be splitting the kids into smaller pools by size and experience. I had a coach who did that with most of the adult classes, and he was an active fighter on the UFC roster at that point. With children’s classes it’s more important.
02-6611-0142-1 fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 00:14
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02-6611-0142-1 posted:100% a situation where the coach should be choosing all the matchups, or at the least be splitting the kids into smaller pools by size and experience. I had a coach who did that with most of the adult classes, and he was an active fighter on the UFC roster at that point. With children’s classes it’s more important. I would say from the gyms perspective, its even more important. Most of the revenue for a gym comes from the kids classes, so if you're losing kids and their parents due to this nonsense, its going to hurt the bottom line of the gym more than if this was happening the adult classes. Also the parents talk to each other. Exoduses, sometimes happen en masse. Pyle posted:A week ago I us sparred with our newest and youngest blue belt. He's 16 and started one year ago. He didn't know a single move back then and now he's competition blue belt and gave me one hell of a lesson on the mat. Then again I noticed that he was a serious opponent to our older black belts as well. He was not not submitting our BB's, but I noticed they had to change from a friendly sparring to their A-game. The thing is, that the 16 year old kid has been training in the competition team and he has trained literally every day. Young, fast and strong. I fear what comes next. There is definitely this dividing line where they were young teenagers and then they become young adults that could totally tap you if you get lazy. Tacos Al Pastor fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 00:24
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Didn't have to sit on the big dude tonight. The other one didn't show up. When class started he was complaining about being really sore and I mentioned off hand that maybe it was partially from going full bore in rolls. I dunno if the coach talked to him but I wasn't intending to roll with him. He walked up to me far less aggressively than before and politely asked if I'd roll and I agreed to but I told him not to try to kill me again. He nodded and we had a good roll so I dunno. Coach was observing the whole time. Maybe dude burned himself out? Maybe coach talked to him? Maybe he realized that he could throw me around with only two fingers? Glad it's resolved, though.
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Aug 25, 2022 04:06
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Kid BJJ The kids class at my gym (both my kids did years of that class before moving to the adult class) doesn't even let the kids choose their partners. The professor does that depending on size/skill/etc. I can't imagine letting little kids have complete freedom in selecting training partners. Separately, it's very lol to see 14 year olds who are as big as grown men and doing high level BJJ with their kid belts in the adult class. spacetoaster fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Aug 25, 2022 |
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Aug 25, 2022 04:44
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I think talking to the coach is best. I will say I taught my kids classes to focus a lot on pinning opponents which seemed safer and better. Imo the fact she is pinning your son who is smaller and not say doing actual subs isn't a problem but I'm only going off of what you wrote and don't see it the same way you do when it's live. Maybe talk to her parents and the coach and just say "ok so it's fine to pin but ease up after say 10 seconds or so" so she doesn't feel like she's punished for doing something that is, imo, safe and reasonable for her to do? That's just a thought I'm spitballing and is entirely reasonable to ignore.
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Aug 25, 2022 07:04
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I made a kid cry the other week. He got promoted to yellow belt and his coach recommended adults catch a round with him. I went over to the kids mat and asked him to come roll with me. I shut his game down and played mine in a very technical and gentle way but still not giving him an inch. Rounded ended and he left the mats without a handshake. I said whatever and started rolling with another adult but apparently he started crying and a lot of senior students saw. Not a great situation but I think he was caught up in his lil promotion and had a hard time processing I shut his game down effortlessly. I messaged the head coach and he didnt reply.
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Aug 26, 2022 03:30
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heeebrew posted:I made a kid cry the other week. He got promoted to yellow belt and his coach recommended adults catch a round with him. I went over to the kids mat and asked him to come roll with me. I shut his game down and played mine in a very technical and gentle way but still not giving him an inch. Rounded ended and he left the mats without a handshake. I said whatever and started rolling with another adult but apparently he started crying and a lot of senior students saw. Not a great situation but I think he was caught up in his lil promotion and had a hard time processing I shut his game down effortlessly. I messaged the head coach and he didnt reply. lol
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Aug 26, 2022 03:37
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awesome come meet your training partners this is gary, john, dennis 'the menace' haha, ted, the child mutilator, and gavin.
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Aug 26, 2022 03:39
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Every single one of my buddies loves this story and has nicknamed me the kid killer.
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Aug 26, 2022 03:49
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i would subscribe to kidkiller_bjj's instagram where he travels the country and refuses to humour children in grappling contests and i'm not even one of those psychos that loving hates kids.
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Aug 26, 2022 04:08
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I vote a rashguard that says "I heelhook children in gi" be added to the list of goon rashguards we should be able to purchase one day.
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Aug 26, 2022 04:17
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children's limbs are really resilient so you have to employ good technique to get that knee to really explode like the knee of someone who actually contributes to society
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Aug 26, 2022 04:20
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heeebrew posted:I made a kid cry the other week. He got promoted to yellow belt and his coach recommended adults catch a round with him. I went over to the kids mat and asked him to come roll with me. I shut his game down and played mine in a very technical and gentle way but still not giving him an inch. Rounded ended and he left the mats without a handshake. I said whatever and started rolling with another adult but apparently he started crying and a lot of senior students saw. Not a great situation but I think he was caught up in his lil promotion and had a hard time processing I shut his game down effortlessly. I messaged the head coach and he didnt reply. I know this type of kid. They dominate all the other kids on the mat but then when are presented with a real challenge, get pissy in the gym or cry at competitions.
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Aug 26, 2022 18:14
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Everybody needs to get owned once in a while 
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Aug 26, 2022 21:10
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Sherbert Hoover posted:Everybody needs to get owned once in a while This is why Ive never been a big fan of Ryans attitude. I am waiting for the day when a younger faster version of himself eventually taps him. In the end, old man time gets us all 
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Aug 27, 2022 18:00
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heeebrew posted:I made a kid cry the other week. He got promoted to yellow belt and his coach recommended adults catch a round with him. I went over to the kids mat and asked him to come roll with me. I shut his game down and played mine in a very technical and gentle way but still not giving him an inch. Rounded ended and he left the mats without a handshake. I said whatever and started rolling with another adult but apparently he started crying and a lot of senior students saw. Not a great situation but I think he was caught up in his lil promotion and had a hard time processing I shut his game down effortlessly. I messaged the head coach and he didnt reply.
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Aug 27, 2022 21:13
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Two weeks later, I remain split on feeling bad and also gently caress that kid.
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Aug 28, 2022 07:15
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heeebrew posted:Two weeks later, I remain split on feeling bad and also gently caress that kid. Empathy is good. Kids could also learn to toughen up just a little.
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Aug 28, 2022 16:40
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My thinking is that it's good to give the kid some humility but it's also good to let people enjoy promotion day. Still kinda funny.
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Aug 28, 2022 17:08
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