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M_Gargantua
Oct 16, 2006

STOMP'N ON INTO THE POWERLINES

Exciting Lemon
It's semicomatose Gideon accompanied by Alectos curious ghost and I will stand by that prediction until proven wrong in three weeks. Harrow is happily napping in Alectos place back home.

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Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
With Gideon's titty mags, apparently

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004

M_Gargantua posted:

It's semicomatose Gideon accompanied by Alectos curious ghost and I will stand by that prediction until proven wrong in three weeks. Harrow is happily napping in Alectos place back home.

What what?

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA
Spoilers abound, so I won't bother obscuring anything.

rohan posted:

I’m not sure it can be anything but this, given the sample chapter’s reference to Nona’s hair growing unusually quickly.
That was something Ianthe did to Harrow's body and doesn't necessarily imply that anyone in particular is behind the handlebars. We know that the Body has been tagging along with Harrow and taking some action:

HtN posted:

“YOU’RE SURE,” HARROWHARK SAID. “Of course I’m not sure,” said Dulcie Septimus. “But I’m a necromancer of the Seventh House—or I was, when I was alive. Abigail couldn’t have felt what I felt, when we both looked outside. I’m not an expert with revenant spirits, but I know a little something about puppeting. And your body’s not being puppeted, Harrow—something is moving it around, and not a fragment. It’s not the ghost either, because it didn’t feel anything like the Sleeper.”
Pretty sure she's not just referring to Gideon, though it's somewhat ambiguous.

Gideon, meanwhile:

HtN posted:

The final thing I saw was a great sunshiny light: a blurred figure, hazing in and out around the edges. At first it looked to me like a woman—a grey-faced, dead-eyed woman, with a face so beautiful it almost went out the other side and became repellent; a woman with my eyes, dimmed dark yellow in death, whose hair fell in wet leaden hanks. I realised with exhausted indignation that, at the end of everything—after all I had been through—after the last word, the last strike, the last drop of blood in the water—your bullshit dead girlfriend had come to claim you.
Harrow and Gideon's fates are unclear, but seems safe to assume brokebrained Alecto is in control.

Keret
Aug 26, 2012




Soiled Meat
I for one am very here for Harrow's bizarre sitcom-living-room brain/body, where people just kind of keep showing up unannounced and sticking around.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
hnnnnnng I said I wouldn't spoil anything but okay okay it's forums moderator Sebmojo inside the body of forums moderator Sebmojo

SurreptitiousMuffin fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Aug 25, 2022

cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies


That's the beauty of Taz's writing — even when something catches you completely off guard, you can see all the clues there in retrospect once you know.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010

cptn_dr posted:

That's the beauty of Taz's writing — even when something catches you completely off guard, you can see all the clues there in retrospect once you know.
oh god the bit where Richard Lowtax Kyanka returns from the River only for BoE to show up led by forums moderator sebmojo who unleashes a planet-shattering thanergy wave, just artistry, old mate is a master of planting and payoff

cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies


There's better-than-even odds that John Gaius, Necrolord Prime, God-Emperor of the Glorious Resurrection etc etc was a Goon.

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."

cptn_dr posted:

There's better-than-even odds that John Gaius, Necrolord Prime, God-Emperor of the Glorious Resurrection etc etc was a Goon.

Would you have to avert that dark future by banning him, or by asking him to become moderator of ADTRW?

cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies


God knew.

disposablewords
Sep 12, 2021

Rand Brittain posted:

Would you have to avert that dark future by banning him, or by asking him to become moderator of ADTRW?

It's too late, he's already set on that path from the day he dropped the :10bux:.

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:

cptn_dr posted:

God knew.

DreamingofRoses
Jun 27, 2013
Nap Ghost

Cugel the Clever posted:

Spoilers abound, so I won't bother obscuring anything.

That was something Ianthe did to Harrow's body and doesn't necessarily imply that anyone in particular is behind the handlebars. We know that the Body has been tagging along with Harrow and taking some action:

Pretty sure she's not just referring to Gideon, though it's somewhat ambiguous.

Gideon, meanwhile:

Harrow and Gideon's fates are unclear, but seems safe to assume brokebrained Alecto is in control.

Honestly, I think the implication of Nona laughing at all the butt jokes means that it’s probably Nav. Is there any evidence that Alecto has any ability to affect Harrow besides the visions? It’d be a fun low-stakes thing to bet on.

DreamingofRoses fucked around with this message at 09:56 on Aug 25, 2022

GoodluckJonathan
Oct 31, 2003

Would someone mind doing a quick bullet points of wtf happened in harrow because I'll be damned if I could figure out what was going on by the end.

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Harrow made soup

90s Cringe Rock
Nov 29, 2006
:gay:
dios apate, minor

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




GoodluckJonathan posted:

Would someone mind doing a quick bullet points of wtf happened in harrow because I'll be damned if I could figure out what was going on by the end.

The plot lends itself neither to quick nor to bullet points, but chronologically (whatever that really means), this might be about right? It's not literally everything but it should be the major stuff. I'll uh spoiler tag it just in case for others

Harrow messes with her brain with Ianthe's help to forget Gideon and replace the word when heard with Ortus, and her memories with Ortus being her cav
Every time she is unconscious or whatever she creates a river manifestation with Abigail, Magnus, Ortus "remembering" a false Canaan house, they gradually figure out what's going on
On the mithraeum station the other lyctors gently caress around a lot, a resurrection beast is coming to kill them all
Gideon the First (she thinks his name is Ortus) tries to kill Harrow a lot, she tries to explode him with marrow soup
Cytherea's body gets inhabited with the ghost of Wake, a blood of eden commander who is also Gideon the Ninth's mom
Harrow's soul gets inhabited with the ghost of Wake, who tries to take over during those dream sequences
Abigail tries to banish it, they summon a lost ghost hero of the ninth, epic battle
A few of them go to help battle the beast
Harrow's soul ????????? ends up in the locked tomb with a sword and some porn magazines
Harrow's body ends up with Gideon the Ninth's soul in it, finds out Gideon's dad is god
Mercy tries to kill god
Augustine tries to kill god
Ianthe saves god
Nona exists

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

GoodluckJonathan posted:

Would someone mind doing a quick bullet points of wtf happened in harrow because I'll be damned if I could figure out what was going on by the end.

Harrow moves to the FF7 house.

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse

Cugel the Clever posted:

Spoilers abound, so I won't bother obscuring anything.

Gideon, meanwhile:

Harrow and Gideon's fates are unclear, but seems safe to assume brokebrained Alecto is in control.

I'm not sure how I completely memoryholed that last excerpt :monocle: you're probably right

team overhead smash
Sep 2, 2006

Team-Forest-Tree-Dog:
Smashing your way into our hearts one skylight at a time

silvergoose posted:

The plot lends itself neither to quick nor to bullet points, but chronologically (whatever that really means), this might be about right? It's not literally everything but it should be the major stuff. I'll uh spoiler tag it just in case for others

Harrow messes with her brain with Ianthe's help to forget Gideon and replace the word when heard with Ortus, and her memories with Ortus being her cav
Every time she is unconscious or whatever she creates a river manifestation with Abigail, Magnus, Ortus "remembering" a false Canaan house, they gradually figure out what's going on
On the mithraeum station the other lyctors gently caress around a lot, a resurrection beast is coming to kill them all
Gideon the First (she thinks his name is Ortus) tries to kill Harrow a lot, she tries to explode him with marrow soup
Cytherea's body gets inhabited with the ghost of Wake, a blood of eden commander who is also Gideon the Ninth's mom
Harrow's soul gets inhabited with the ghost of Wake, who tries to take over during those dream sequences
Abigail tries to banish it, they summon a lost ghost hero of the ninth, epic battle
A few of them go to help battle the beast
Harrow's soul ????????? ends up in the locked tomb with a sword and some porn magazines
Harrow's body ends up with Gideon the Ninth's soul in it, finds out Gideon's dad is god
Mercy tries to kill god
Augustine tries to kill god
Ianthe saves god
Nona exists


Two key bits not mentioned:

Midway through the story Harrow runs into Camila Hect who has Judith and Coronabeth in tow. Harrow confirms Palamedes spirit still exists linked to his bones.

At the end Gideon the First’s cavalier, Pyrrha Dve, takes control of his body and it becomes clear she’s done this a few times throughout the book.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

Also that God lied to everyone and you don’t need to murder your cav to become a Lyctor, which Palamedes seems to have figured out as well, even by the end of GtN when he’s confronting Ianthe after she eats Babs.

Luigi Thirty fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Aug 25, 2022

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Also that the sword was holding the spirit of wake, gideon nav is god's daughter, and harrow only got into the locked tomb because she had Gideon's blood under her fingernails after a fight

silvergoose
Mar 18, 2006

IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS




sebmojo posted:

Also that the sword was holding the spirit of wake, gideon nav is god's daughter, and harrow only got into the locked tomb because she had Gideon's blood under her fingernails after a fight

I mentioned the second one :p

Harold Fjord
Jan 3, 2004
I guess what I'm not following is when this big swap occurred. Has alecto just been following Harrow around until the end of htn? When did Harrow get locked into the tomb?

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
I think those are mysteries that are still waiting to be answered. You are on the same page as everyone else, in that regard.

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Roëmænce is ælive!

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Harold Fjord posted:

I guess what I'm not following is when this big swap occurred. Has alecto just been following Harrow around until the end of htn?
Unless the Body is a heretofore unintroduced character, yes.

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

I’ve been sick this week so I re-read Harrow too. I feel like Uchikoshi just buried me under 50 tons of oss.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010

Cugel the Clever posted:

Unless the Body is a heretofore unintroduced character, yes.
You know actual sort-of-spoiler here but I can tell you with 100% certainty it is not. You have all the pieces of that particular puzzle going into Nona, though the fun is in putting them together.

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

SurreptitiousMuffin posted:

You know actual sort-of-spoiler here but I can tell you with 100% certainty it is not. You have all the pieces of that particular puzzle going into Nona, though the fun is in putting them together.
My only other guess would be Anastasia, who conspired with Cassie to thwart John after his intervention to stop her achieving the perfect lyctoral process.

SurreptitiousMuffin
Mar 21, 2010
Ashamed to say I only just caught this

Rand Brittain
Mar 25, 2013

"Go on until you're stopped."
The thing about the Body being Alecto/AL is that the Body knows stuff that... honestly, the Body knows stuff that nobody really has an excuse to have put together, like telling Harrowhark to lie to Mercymorn about her age.

The Body, in the brief glimpse we get of her, also doesn't really match Mercymorn's (biased) description of AL as being "a monster" or "was never human".

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse
A popular theory I've been seeing on Tumblr is that the body in the Tomb is Anastasia and Alecto is actually housed somewhere in Canaan House
I kind of like this theory but I'm having trouble actually finding the posts :confused:

Edit: also this
https://gidykeon.tumblr.com/post/684871223273979904/new-theory-the-tomb-body-isnt-alecto-or

Happy Landfill fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Aug 26, 2022

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Happy Landfill posted:

A popular theory I've been seeing on Tumblr is that the body in the Tomb is Anastasia and Alecto is actually housed somewhere in Canaan House
I kind of like this theory but I'm having trouble actually finding the posts :confused:

Edit: also this
https://gidykeon.tumblr.com/post/684871223273979904/new-theory-the-tomb-body-isnt-alecto-or


quote:

one of the many reasons i love tlt is because any given female character has about a 75% chance of being a lesbian but like. ever since i’ve read it i can’t help but think about what it would be like if it was written by and for straight people. gideon would obviously be a man, a gary sue, and women would be throwing themselves at him 100% of the time. harrow would be a sexy but irrationally cruel bitch (even more so i mean) who becomes ~worthy of love~ through prolonged exposure to gideon’s goodness. ianthe would be the token and predatory lesbian. cam and pal would be in a relationship by the end. cytherea would be a villain mainly bc she seduced hapless gideon through her evil manipulative feminine wiles. harrow being in love with a female corpse is a horrifying and tragic part of her “madness.” i can’t stop thinking about this

Apart from a single gender swap, their version of TLT but for straight people is identical to the actual version lol

Luigi Thirty
Apr 30, 2006

Emergency confection port.

I’m gonna guess that Harrow’s soul swapped places with the one in the Tomb and Gideon is in the backseat again. Why it’s brokebrained, no idea. God did it because he sucks.

Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse

sebmojo posted:

Apart from a single gender swap, their version of TLT but for straight people is identical to the actual version lol

Male Gideon just feels so much less interesting, even though there was a brief moment in the beginning where that's what I thought

cptn_dr
Sep 7, 2011

Seven for beauty that blossoms and dies


https://twitter.com/ElixirLibris/status/1563342105157959684
If people are bored of this they can tell me, but I made another Locked Tomb cocktail

sebmojo
Oct 23, 2010


Legit Cyberpunk









Happy Landfill posted:

Male Gideon just feels so much less interesting, even though there was a brief moment in the beginning where that's what I thought

Oh for sure.

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Happy Landfill
Feb 26, 2011

I don't understand but I've also heard much worse

cptn_dr posted:

https://twitter.com/ElixirLibris/status/1563342105157959684
If people are bored of this they can tell me, but I made another Locked Tomb cocktail

I really hope your cocktails taste as good as they look because that is gorgeous!!

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