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Waffleman_ posted:The beginning of RoS is a lot like the beginning of CCA, in that a previous villain is just back, gently caress you, go with it.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:24
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They shoulda revealed Palpatine had been dead the whole time but a group of insane Sith were still perpetuating his ideas as if he was alive and worshiping his corpse as a totemic object. You could've not killed the achievement of Luke in the OG trilogy and gained some parallels with the Jedi trying to cling ineffectually to the old teachings when they don't apply any longer, hell even with the First Order clinging to the old Empire
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Aug 28, 2022 02:28
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Maybe make that rhe Knights of Ren so they could have been Like Relevant
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Aug 28, 2022 02:29
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Kanos posted:I was willing to give them a pass on 7 being an inferior soulless rehash of 4 because I understood that they basically had to re-introduce the franchise to a new generation, and it did introduce some new characters and dynamics that I looked forward to them exploring(mostly Finn and Poe). I'd say that 7 being so soulless ends up being worse because it spends so much time recycling ideas for no payoff. Obviously the OT wasn't exactly tightly plotted but they made up for that and managed to jam plot points together for an entertaining story.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:32
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Waffleman_ posted:The beginning of RoS is a lot like the beginning of CCA, in that a previous villain is just back, gently caress you, go with it. At the very least Char Aznable wasn't dumped down a giant shaft into the center of a moon sized space station that exploded. The end of Z Gundam was all coded that he'd survived.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:32
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Omnicrom posted:At the very least Char Aznable wasn't dumped down a giant shaft into the center of a moon sized space station that exploded. well, maybe he should have been.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:37
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Waffleman_ posted:Maybe make that rhe Knights of Ren so they could have been I for one appreciate the Jobbers of Ren
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Aug 28, 2022 02:37
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finn should have waverider crashed palpatine
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Aug 28, 2022 02:38
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Gaius Marius posted:The most baffling thing about the whole new trilogy is that at no point did Disney decide to get at least a basic outline of what the trilogy would be and get everyone on the same page. You buy one of the biggest franchises of all time and then treat the movies the way I treated my homework. I wish that Treverrow had been allowed to do the last one, it wouldn't have been good, but at least it would be good bad instead of bad bad What I've heard from actor interviews, which may or may not be true, is that there was a rough plan when Abrams started, and then Johnson decided to do his own thing, and then that wrecked all the third movie plans and left us with the shitshow that is Rise of Skywalker. As for Last Jedi, I thought it was a good Jedi plot combined with a terrible Resistance plot when I first saw it, but with more distance, even the Jedi stuff fell apart. The thing that stands out most to me in hindsight (and that makes me have the least patience for its defenders) is how little it left future films to work with.. The villains are all dead or jokes, the heroes have been shown to have no way to win without a blatant deus ex machina since they've been reduced to a dozen people in a van against an empire that took over the galaxy in five minutes, and everyone's arcs seem to have concluded. It's the opposite of Empire, and not just in being poo poo where Empire was good. Empire ended in a rough place for the core characters (Luke down a hand, Han in carbonite, Lando's kingdom snatched away from him), but the last shot showed a bigger Rebel fleet than any we'd seen before, suggesting that fighting the Empire was a real possibility. However, Darth Vader's big reveal threw everything we knew about Luke's history into question, giving exciting and concrete narrative hooks for the next film. Last Jedi, meanwhile, annihilated any way for the Resistance to win, since the entire galaxy except a couple child slaves (who were less important to the Resistance than the weird horse things) likes the First Order more than the Republic, and the Resistance lost most of its troops and all its capital ships for nothing. However, all the protagonists are fine and have no urgent losses or worries, with Rey having been told that she's the best Jedi ever and has nothing more to learn (unlike Luke, who ran off before his last lesson, giving more obvious hooks), Finn being in a romantic relationship with shockingly little chemistry, and Poe having learned his lesson that you shouldn't let people die to achieve military victory, but only in the course of pointless military defeats. We don't even have a big question at the end waiting to be built on, since Rey rejected Kylo and had the whole backstory explained in (very un-Star Wars) flashbacks. Even if we took it as a given that Last Jedi is a good movie, it's also a conclusive movie, leaving no good launchpad for a direct sequel, let alone a trilogy finale. Also Booky posted:finn should have waverider crashed palpatine ...But yeah. Gundam. I like the one where the child soldier is exposed to the traumatizing effects of war as his closest companions die in front of him.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:45
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I think I remember even at the time, I thought people calling it actually the best Star Wars was a bit of an overcorrection and my defense was actually "it's just a movie please calm down" because it was an exceptionally exhausting time to exist on the Internet.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:54
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:well, maybe he should have been. Definitely would have saved a lot of people some headaches.
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Aug 28, 2022 02:57
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i have never seen a Star Wars beyond a few mins of TFA and i think the last like, 20 mins of RotJ?? p sure i absorbed info about it by osmosis and google tho
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Aug 28, 2022 03:03
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Booky posted:i have never seen a Star Wars beyond a few mins of TFA and i think the last like, 20 mins of RotJ?? p sure i absorbed info about it by osmosis and google tho It's probably worth watching the original and Empire if you can find the original versions and have a few hours to kill. Like the original Gundam, they're very good, and they provides context for a lot of later pop culture references that you never would have recognized without firsthand experience. For example, until I went through the original Gundam, I never recognized that Julieta's last conversation with Mikazuki was an echo of Amuro and Lalah's talk asking how Amuro could fight with no family and no homeland to ground him. (And, like Amuro, Mikazuki realized his place to return to due the conversation. It was just, unlike Amuro, he didn't make it back.)
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Aug 28, 2022 03:07
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chiasaur11 posted:Even if we took it as a given that Last Jedi is a good movie, it's also a conclusive movie, leaving no good launchpad for a direct sequel, let alone a trilogy finale. I can't agree with that at all. It pretty conclusively set up a villain and 'the heroes have lost their support structure, how do they succeed from here' is a pretty great setup for a film, especially since TLJ left it with a very blunt "They will have to actually work with the downtrodden and the helpless to overcome the elite" message. At worst they needed a time skip to set up enough of a new status quo for the new film to work on but but that isn't a bad thing for Star Wars to do. Especially in the era the films were being made "The main villain is a desperate manchild who weirds immense power in a destructive and pointless way, how do you overcome that, especially when the rich and elite of the galaxy are perfectly fine with wars going on as long as they are selling weapons" is a super-good hook for a story, especially one where you are theoretically taking Jedi away from "the elite soldiers of the government" and back to "The wandering monks who follow the guidance of their god to do good."
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Aug 28, 2022 03:08
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Nu Star Wars was worth it for the two scenes of Luke Astral Projecting himself to death and Sidius making very very big For e Lightning
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Aug 28, 2022 03:28
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War and Pieces posted:Nu Star Wars was worth it for the two scenes of Luke Astral Projecting himself to death and Sidius making very very big For e Lightning I remember the Luke scene was very cool.
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Aug 28, 2022 03:39
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FYI, Gundam Info's got G-Gundam again. I also forgot how OTT G-Gundam gets with it's mains. Domon's whole hallucinatory meet up with his family after being shanghai'd back to Neo-Japan is a loving trip. Also George is great and strong and has wonderful hair. Tulalip Tulips fucked around with this message at 06:23 on Aug 28, 2022 |
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Aug 28, 2022 04:16
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ImpAtom posted:The New Republic fell faster in the EU than it did in the sequel trilogy. The Legends New Republic existed for 22 in-world years across 12 years of real-life publication history from 1991 to 2003, during which time many viewpoint characters were intimately involved with its politics, diplomacy, and governance. In contrast, the Disney New Republic existed for 1 hour, 10 minutes, and 50 seconds, entirely in the year 2015, and except for a 13 second scene immediately prior to the destruction of its capital world, entirely offscreen and irrelevant to the characters, despite its 30-year in-universe history.
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Aug 28, 2022 07:08
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ImpAtom posted:"What if Han Solo was replaced by Not Han Solo who is the Johnny Ridden to Han's Char." Now I want to see Johnny Ridden meet Dash Rendar.
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Aug 28, 2022 07:37
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Waffleman_ posted:The beginning of RoS is a lot like the beginning of CCA, in that a previous villain is just back, gently caress you, go with it. Now, now, Char did return as a villain with no explanations given. Palpatine's a much classier guy who hinted his return via Fortnite.  chiasaur11 posted:What I've heard from actor interviews, which may or may not be true, is that there was a rough plan when Abrams started, and then Johnson decided to do his own thing, and then that wrecked all the third movie plans and left us with the shitshow that is Rise of Skywalker. This is something I find hard to believe, given that Abrams is infamous for never coming up with a structure to his stories, much less how to resolve the mystery elements he's introducing.
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Aug 28, 2022 07:55
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I wish Abrams hadn't made Mission Impossible III because now I need a * when I write "Abrams had never made anything that isn't trash*"
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Aug 28, 2022 15:22
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Anshu posted:The Legends New Republic existed for 22 in-world years across 12 years of real-life publication history from 1991 to 2003, during which time many viewpoint characters were intimately involved with its politics, diplomacy, and governance. It had the most insane parade of challenges, too. Ex-Imperials makes sense but superweapons were just all over the place, ancient Sith Lords came back to possess people, multiple evil clones, extragalactic invaders, and I don't know what else. I didn't even read past the New Jed Order/Vong stuff but I think something like Cthulhu showed up? Basically, the New Republic faced more challenges in those two decades than the Old Republic faded in its thousands of years. Kinda ridiculous but that's the comic book logic they were working with. At least Legacy skipped forward a bit, although it honestly should have skipped forward farther.
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Aug 28, 2022 15:49
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Gaius Marius posted:I wish Abrams hadn't made Mission Impossible III because now I need a * when I write "Abrams had never made anything that isn't trash*" Dude mission impossible III sucks total rear end
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Aug 28, 2022 17:56
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Phillip Seymour Hoffman being a terrorist. Billy Crudup being an rear end in a top hat. Cruise, the saviour of cinema, doing some crazy poo poo. Proto Jesse Pinkman. A forbidden Ye track. What more can you want out of a movie.
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Aug 28, 2022 18:11
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Anshu posted:The Legends New Republic existed for 22 in-world years across 12 years of real-life publication history from 1991 to 2003, during which time many viewpoint characters were intimately involved with its politics, diplomacy, and governance. I just want to say that this is the single most interesting out of context data point in this whole derail. Carry on.
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Aug 28, 2022 23:29
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Anshu posted:The Legends New Republic existed for 22 in-world years across 12 years of real-life publication history from 1991 to 2003, during which time many viewpoint characters were intimately involved with its politics, diplomacy, and governance. If by 'intimately involved' you mean 'failed constantly and repeatedly in every possible way' including Luke accidentally training a guy who blew up stars.
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Aug 29, 2022 00:09
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i believe that scenario falls under the words used yes
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Aug 29, 2022 00:17
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A lot of intimate involvement fails constantly and repeatedly, look at the divorce rates in this country!
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Aug 29, 2022 00:23
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ninjewtsu posted:i believe that scenario falls under the words used yes Then it doesn't make a lot of sense as a comparison point because the same is true of the new EU, we just don't see the stories. (Yet. I'm sure Disney has 8535 TV shows coming out that will cover every possible character in every possible timeline.) And in either case it's like the old "Every Gundam Show is pointless because (later show) shows stuff falling" when the point of success in a war story isn't peace forever. (Even Gundam Wing eventually brought back the drat robots.) Amuro/Banagher/Bellri/Loran/whoever having hope for the future isn't invalidated because the exact group they fought for probably falls sometime in the future. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 00:37
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i don't understand, the point was that old new republic was fleshed out with characters and drama and politics and actual stories being told in that time period, while the new new republic was quickly swept under the rug to make way for the new movies with no substance or thought put into it whether or not the characters in the stories involved were successful or competent seems like a complete non-sequitur?
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Aug 29, 2022 00:52
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Yeah for real I remember hearing “new republic” in tfa and being like “ cool wonder when we get to know what that I— hmm. Oh. Huh.” That the eu operates like an eu doesn’t seem to be a valid point in the discussion.
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Aug 29, 2022 00:59
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ninjewtsu posted:i don't understand, the point was that old new republic was fleshed out with characters and drama and politics and actual stories being told in that time period, while the new new republic was quickly swept under the rug to make way for the new movies with no substance or thought put into it Because the conversation was part of a thread about how disrespectful the new EU was because it killed off characters or invalidated their successes Like this entire derail waa born from someone saying the old EU used the characters better when the new and old EUs are 85% the same and the other 15% has nothing to do with movie characters ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 01:03 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Aug 29, 2022 01:00
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Who would win Luke Skywalker or the Turn A?
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Aug 29, 2022 01:17
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Warmachine posted:Who would win Luke Skywalker or the Turn A? It depends, can Turn-A time travel or shoot green electricity that kills anything instantly? The real question is if Jedi can use Newtype-use weaponry.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:21
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ImpAtom posted:It depends, can Turn-A time travel or shoot green electricity that kills anything instantly? Sub-question, can the Unicorn's NT-D also nullify the Force?
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Aug 29, 2022 01:22
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The NT-D is powered by Ysalamiri and the Sinanju is piloted by Chaar Aznable.
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Aug 29, 2022 01:24
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couldn't you just force zap or choke the pilot of a gundam
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Aug 29, 2022 01:57
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Booky posted:couldn't you just force zap or choke the pilot of a gundam Even so!
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Aug 29, 2022 02:23
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I didn't know that Miki Matsubara, the performer who sang "The Winner" and "Back To Paradise" as well as wrote "Men of Destiny" and did some work on Dirty Pair, died in 2004. 
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Aug 29, 2022 05:02
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ImpAtom posted:If by 'intimately involved' you mean 'failed constantly and repeatedly in every possible way' including Luke accidentally training a guy who blew up stars. Ah yes, "failing constantly and repeatedly in every possible way," like... defeating every revanchist Imperial warlord that tried to reconquer the galaxy (including a clone of Palpatine himself), overcoming several domestic and diplomatic crises before ultimately securing a peace treaty with a much reduced and somewhat reformed Imperial Remnant? Yes, they made a lot of mistakes along the way, and you could argue that they ultimately failed, but we got to see them strive for and achieve at least temporary success. In the Disney canon our first re-introduction to the characters has them as failures. Luke's new Jedi Order has already been destroyed, sending him into hiding; Leia has abandoned the New Republic as a failing government unwilling and unable to even attempt to defend itself, and Han Solo has let his and Leia's marriage collapse and backslid to where he was when we first met him. ImpAtom posted:[T]his entire derail waa born from someone saying the old EU used the characters better when the new and old EUs are 85% the same and the other 15% has nothing to do with movie characters You're wrong and dumb, like someone deciding that there's no difference between murder and a peaceful death in your sleep because the result is a dead body either way.
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Aug 29, 2022 06:32
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