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Desantis will win because this is the hell timeline and only bad things can happen.
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Sep 1, 2022 03:50
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Murgos posted:This is amazing. They are asserting that the fact that the records are ‘presidential records’ completely overcomes any notion of national secrets. Combined with that they use president to refer to Trump in the present tense and it’s like they are insisting that Trump is the president and so has a right to presidential records. I just finished. Kept having to stop and rewind cause this is like some pennywise clown shoes horsepucky. The whole argument rests on the assumption that everything is his, we presume because he's the REAL president. loving nuts.
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Sep 1, 2022 03:59
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Murgos posted:This is amazing. They are asserting that the fact that the records are ‘presidential records’ completely overcomes any notion of national secrets. Combined with that they use president to refer to Trump in the present tense and it’s like they are insisting that Trump is the president and so has a right to presidential records. Remember how he insisted two of his passports are valid?
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Sep 1, 2022 04:46
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Murgos posted:His passports were mixed in with the classified documents. How does your passport get mixed in with documents you don’t have or didn’t know were there? "I had people who took care of that for me, I had no idea where my passports were." This was actually even true while he was president. All your personal effects go into storage and your documents etc are taken care of for stuff like international travel. quote:The White House’s advance staff keeps it locked up in the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, along with the passports of other White House staffers. Also amusing and presumably why he was so attached to it: quote:According to the White House, which demystified the process in this very helpful video, Obama’s passport was newly minted when he became president. It’s just like yours: It has his photo and he’s signed it and everything. Except that his says: “THE BEARER IS THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES.”
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Sep 1, 2022 05:32
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Do you get a new one when you lose the election? Because I see him parading that one around and saying SEEE I'm the president. Would be a neat souvenir though.
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Sep 1, 2022 06:02
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cr0y posted:Do you get a new one when you lose the election? Because I see him parading that one around and saying SEEE I'm the president. I doubt they give you one; you're a plebe now and get to go through the process like anyone else. Also I think if it hasn't been ten years since you got your civilian passport/renewed it, it'll still be good once you're a private citizen again.
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Sep 1, 2022 06:05
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Automata 10 Pack posted:I think the “DeSantis is weak, actually” posts are 100% purestrain cope and all hinge on Republicans willing to choose a vacuum than someone trying to be parallel to Trump and Democrats willing to be as energized to opposing him as they are for Trump. idk i notice most of the people saying desantis is a juggernaut all happen to be from the south east and especially florida. I literally haven't heard his name in the wild a single time in the north west.
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Sep 1, 2022 06:12
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Also what the gently caress is trump's even attempted defense at this point? That document spread was about the worst possible combination of stuff you could possible find someone hiding
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Sep 1, 2022 06:15
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Also what the gently caress is trump's even attempted defense at this point? That document spread was about the worst possible combination of stuff you could possible find someone hiding The defense seems to be that it's fake news because Trump didn't actually store them on the floor
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Sep 1, 2022 06:17
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Also what the gently caress is trump's even attempted defense at this point? That document spread was about the worst possible combination of stuff you could possible find someone hiding That they are simultaneously his and declassified and also planted. It's just throwing poo poo against a wall hoping something will stick. He doesn't have a single unified defense strategy.
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Sep 1, 2022 06:18
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Herstory Begins Now posted:idk i notice most of the people saying desantis is a juggernaut all happen to be from the south east and especially florida. I literally haven't heard his name in the wild a single time in the north west. Yeah, in New England the only people who know who DeSantis is are doomer Twitter roses. Everyone else is like "who?" and his charisma-vacuum schtick isn't going to change that readily.
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Sep 1, 2022 06:21
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Also what the gently caress is trump's even attempted defense at this point? That document spread was about the worst possible combination of stuff you could possible find someone hiding He still thinks he's the president. He thinks he can possess classified documents because he's still the president. That's probably his defense.
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Sep 1, 2022 07:37
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Charliegrs posted:He still thinks he's the president. He thinks he can possess classified documents because he's still the president. That's probably his defense. yes, but he's not offering that defense to a judge - he's offering it to qultists and chuds and maga and gop and brietbart and sinclair and over a billion sockpuppets and newsmax and oann and oath keepers and proud boys and klansmen and antisemites and neonazis and militiamen He's made no effort to persuade a judge of this claim. e - Treason. e2 - I keep calling it his 'new-Q-lore option' hoping some lovely rag will use it in a headline someday Uglycat fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 07:48
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I'm actually not seeing how he slithers out of this. 'Ah, nevertheless...' is still lurking. I think his best bet is stalling as hard as he can and praying the next President pardons him before he sees federal prison. Of course Trump wants that next President to be Trump, but if he loses the GOP nomination to (say) De Santis, he would be ill placed to run as a third party - the price of a pardon would likely be lockstep support by Trump of the GOP candidate, no?
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Sep 1, 2022 07:51
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Anyone here understand federal sentencing guidelines enough to explain what minimum/maximum sentencing is for the charges listed? Particularly interested in minimums. Ah 18 USC s 793 
Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 07:55
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Rust Martialis posted:Of course Trump wants that next President to be Trump, but if he loses the GOP nomination to (say) De Santis, he would be ill placed to run as a third party - the price of a pardon would likely be lockstep support by Trump of the GOP candidate, no? lol at thinking that Donald J. Trump will continue to honor the terms of any agreement the nanosecond the president signs that pardon
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Sep 1, 2022 07:57
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Herstory Begins Now posted:idk i notice most of the people saying desantis is a juggernaut all happen to be from the south east and especially florida. I literally haven't heard his name in the wild a single time in the north west. That's why I compare to Walker, he had the same exact pattern of "hurt vulnerable people, throw red meat to the right, become the center of everyone's hopes and fears, but really only in his state/region." Had some things shaken out differently, he could have won the presidency. And he could have done a lot of damage in that office, as he did as governor. If he'd won the nomination he would have had the full backing of national Republicans and without the divisiveness the Trump nomination had. While he'd have probably done less damage than Trump in terms of destabilizing the country, radicalizing the right, and generally sowing chaos, he might have managed a lot more calculated and lasting harm with less popular backlash too. But he didn't have Trump's decades of being a household name. He didn't have the "successful businessman ready to clean house on those politicians" myth to sell to the rank and file voters. He didn't have Trump's ability to be such a blindingly stupid rear end in a top hat that blindingly stupid assholes instantly recognized him as their kind. He didn't have the talent/popular appeal to bully everyone in his party to backing his whims or at least not speaking against him, even when he was working against the party. He didn't get massive free coverage from mainstream media outlets willing to give him the benefit of the doubt even when they should know better. Most importantly, he never showed any sign of driving non-voters or occasional voters to the polls to vote for Republicans the way Trump did. All of that is also DeSantis. The difference is just pre-Trump vs post-Trump rhetoric and policies. Which is itself a definite gap since the party has become more openly fascist since Walker was the guy to look out for. And no one I've seen had denied that he's a young successful politician on the short list of people who might be a future Republican president. Or that he'd do a lot of harm in that position. It's just that casting him as the next Trump or the prophecied competent fascist that will be everything Trump tried to minus the shooting himself in the foot requires ignoring a lot of how Trump succeeded.
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Sep 1, 2022 08:11
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They knew he had the documents. I wonder if they ever tried to tempt him with an agent offering to buy state secrets. Was there any sting along the way or is it just documents. I believe him and his handlers would be dumb enough to bite if the bait was ever offered.
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Sep 1, 2022 09:26
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Lol. Literally deploying the "...some light treason" defense https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1565038382849265664
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Sep 1, 2022 09:55
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Charliegrs posted:Have any actual lawyers weighed in on whether it was really an admission of guilt that Trump said the documents were in boxes? (I don't know if the defendant can request these cases be tried by a judge, but that seems like a silly choice here because...) The more important question is if the statements and collected evidence will be sufficient to convince beyond a reasonable doubt. Unfortunately the reality of this situation is that there is no reasonable random sample in the country at this point. By definition at least 1/5 (or up to the "30% trump base") are not reasonable. Trump could shoot them in court and they'd still sit in the jury room and argue that he was drugged by the deep state drone control program. He would actually be smart to request a speedy trial. The longer it takes to get to court, the more chance everyone has to mentally comprehend the extent of his crimes. Everyone is slowly turning on him, and more time means more foxlose viewers seeping into oann/whatever. Even though that Q crowd will flail and whine, being presented with more and more evidence from their own 'community' will eventually have an effect.
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Sep 1, 2022 10:59
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cr0y posted:That they are simultaneously his and declassified and also planted. It's just throwing poo poo against a wall hoping something will stick. He doesn't have a single unified defense strategy. yeah I'm used to a lot of hypocrisy and mental gymnastics from RWM in general but the obfuscation they've been attempting with this story is some next level poo poo. Or as Trump would say "the worst anyone's ever seen in all of human history"
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Sep 1, 2022 11:28
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When everybody told him the election fraud claims weren't true, trump ignored them and demanded the only claim his administration would make going forward was election fraud. He wouldn't let his staff do anything that defied the election fraud claims, even though they all knew it wasn't true. Here at maralago I'll bet it's the exact same story. Every insider is desperately trying to convince Trump to take a more effective defense, to try different tactics, and to make tiny concessions in his narrative to overcome the DOJ. And Trump throws his cheeseburger at the wall screaming "I am the president and if you say otherwise you're fired." Trump is his own worst enemy and always has been.
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Sep 1, 2022 11:52
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Judge Schnoopy posted:When everybody told him the election fraud claims weren't true, trump ignored them and demanded the only claim his administration would make going forward was election fraud. He wouldn't let his staff do anything that defied the election fraud claims, even though they all knew it wasn't true. Prester Jane’s extremist compaction cycle, except with ever dumber lawyers.
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Sep 1, 2022 12:15
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It appears the lawyers are both really bad at lawyering things like, say, knowing the applicable laws and also true believers.
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Sep 1, 2022 12:18
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cr0y posted:That they are simultaneously his and declassified and also planted. It's just throwing poo poo against a wall hoping something will stick. He doesn't have a single unified defense strategy. Yep. It's the old hydra of misinformation. Fifty different heads, fifty different spurious objections to the truth. If one gets rebutted, just deploy one of the other forty-nine. With so many separate arguments, there must be one of them with some merit, right?
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Sep 1, 2022 12:36
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That means they definitely made copies https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1565022466577145856
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Sep 1, 2022 12:46
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My "I did not fax a copy of ourspies.txt to Vladimir Putin" t-shirt has people asking a lot of questions already answered by my shirt.
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Sep 1, 2022 18:15
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Charlz Guybon posted:Lol. Literally deploying the "...some light treason" defense https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1565378364638126080 MAGA!
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Sep 1, 2022 18:16
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Main Paineframe posted:The government already knows that Trump still had the documents, and they wouldn't be moving forward unless they had sufficient leads on evidence that Trump personally knew about still having the documents. Surely "classified documents in my desk drawer next to my passports" is going to be pretty hard to argue away?
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Sep 1, 2022 18:25
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Oracle posted:"I had people who took care of that for me, I had no idea where my passports were." So you get the name of the person who was handling those documents, then you say you're going to charge them with these charges unless they cooperate, and they then testify that Trump directed them / had knowledge / whatever.
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Sep 1, 2022 19:34
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Like kajillions of goons, I know nothing about this but will nonetheless share my uninformed views. He could argue that he had no idea they were in there, and that someone else did it without his knowledge. It's certainly unlikely that lone staffers and secretaries were all snatching documents on their own without his knowledge and hiding them in his desk without him having any idea they were there, but it's not impossible for a good defense lawyer and a sympathetic client to convince a jury that it's possible, and that makes "beyond reasonable doubt" a tough standard to meet unless they've got something more solid that personally implicates him in the decision. Of course, "I had these highly classified documents so poorly secured that random workers were snatching them and hiding them around Mar-A-Lago and I had no idea" has some obvious limitations as a defense. Failing to properly secure classified documents is less bad than deliberately seeking to hide them from the government, but it's not exactly gonna get him off scot-free either. I doubt Trump will be satisfied with that, which means his poor lawyers will be forced to try a wilder and more novel line of argument.
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Sep 1, 2022 21:05
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Have there been any announcements regarding new January 6 hearings? It's September, when they said they'd get back to us.
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Sep 1, 2022 21:11
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House oversight committee getting financial records. This has been obstructed since 2019. https://twitter.com/nicholaswu12/status/1565329309593731073 Electoral college reform bill may have 60 senator support. https://twitter.com/burgessev/status/1565366200829370370
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Sep 1, 2022 21:21
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(Rescind. Apparently a typo...) Politico says the (T-appointed) judge may block doj review of documents for an unspecified time, but has not yet ruled on the question of special counsel. https://www.politico.com/news/2022/09/01/trump-lawyers-doj-court-00054521 There are conflicting tweets which has led to some confusion about whether or not the full list of documents will be made public. Confused-T appointed judge is confused. 
PhantomOfTheCopier fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Sep 1, 2022 |
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Sep 1, 2022 21:23
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....isn't the DoJ already reviewing them?
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Sep 1, 2022 21:41
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 Durr the article posted:A federal judge indicated Thursday that she’s seriously considering temporarily barring Justice Department investigators from reviewing material seized from Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate. She's trying to save face.
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Sep 1, 2022 21:49
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I thought they said they were done reviewing the documents? Is this all just showmanship bullshit that everyone's doing to appeal to whatever parties they're personally trying to appeal to?
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Sep 1, 2022 21:51
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She's gonna get appealed and overruled instantly.
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Sep 1, 2022 22:00
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Didnt Mazars cut ties with him months ago? I guess they would still have some data though. e: https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/15/politics/mazars-trump-letter-letitia-james/index.html
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Sep 1, 2022 22:05
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cr0y posted:....isn't the DoJ already reviewing them? Yes and I believe they have already completed their review. But, Trump wants a "Special Master" to review them because he supposedly doesn't trust the DOJ to review them properly. That was the purpose of today's court hearing. Of course the real reason is so he can gum up the works and add delay to DOJs investigation and probably dig up dirt on witnesses so they can be doxxed and threatened etc.
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Sep 1, 2022 22:06
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