READ OP! War in Ukraine: a distressed blender making too many margaritas at once

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Saladman: Jan 12, 2010

mobby_6kl posted:

We have this law that in apartment buildings, you basically pay at least the average (or some similar calculation) heating bill, even if you're not using it at all. It's intended to prevent free riding off your neighbors but ends up encouraging energy consumption. Hopefully they're thinking of changing this at least temporarily.

I think it's like this everywhere in Europe ��I don't think it's even possible to bill individually except for the small minority of people who live in single family homes. At least everywhere I've been, I'm pretty sure the meter for heating gas is one for the entire building. Maybe I should double-check that, although it would certainly be unfair to ground-floor apartments to meter heating prices individually.

Also one problem of having a little Putin doll sitting on top of a radiator, aren't people going to want to turn the radiator all the way up to melt him?

# ? Sep 20, 2022 11:29

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 02:31

Atreiden: May 4, 2008

Saladman posted:

I think it's like this everywhere in Europe ��I don't think it's even possible to bill individually except for the small minority of people who live in single family homes. At least everywhere I've been, I'm pretty sure the meter for heating gas is one for the entire building. Maybe I should double-check that, although it would certainly be unfair to ground-floor apartments to meter heating prices individually.

Also one problem of having a little Putin doll sitting on top of a radiator, aren't people going to want to turn the radiator all the way up to melt him?

We have individual meters on each radiator in the appartement complex I live in here in Copenhagen. Haven't turned mine on for years and get money back each year because they overestimate my heating use. I totally leech of the people living around me.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 11:37

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Saladman posted:

I think it's like this everywhere in Europe ��I don't think it's even possible to bill individually except for the small minority of people who live in single family homes. At least everywhere I've been, I'm pretty sure the meter for heating gas is one for the entire building. Maybe I should double-check that, although it would certainly be unfair to ground-floor apartments to meter heating prices individually.

Also one problem of having a little Putin doll sitting on top of a radiator, aren't people going to want to turn the radiator all the way up to melt him?

What? No, only hovels not refurbished in decades have shared utilities meters for anything here at least.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 11:51

Atreiden: May 4, 2008

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1572163073712046082

# ? Sep 20, 2022 11:53

Tafferling: Oct 22, 2008; DOOT DOOT
ALL ABOARD THE ISS POLOKONZERVA

cinci zoo sniper posted:

What? No, only hovels not refurbished in decades have shared utilities meters for anything here at least.

There are ways to mitigate the ground floor syndrome, I live in a building with a 30% communal and 70% individual utility costs.I think it's a good middle ground.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:04

SlowBloke: Aug 14, 2017

Saladman posted:

I think it's like this everywhere in Europe ��I don't think it's even possible to bill individually except for the small minority of people who live in single family homes. At least everywhere I've been, I'm pretty sure the meter for heating gas is one for the entire building. Maybe I should double-check that, although it would certainly be unfair to ground-floor apartments to meter heating prices individually.

Hard nope, every apartment in Italy built after the nineties has individual electricity and heating meters since it's actually cheaper on the constructor(it's either a dedicated heating meter or thermostatic valves everywhere in each flat).

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:05

Warbadger: Jun 17, 2006

Valtonen posted:

APU was taken out at the m1a2 though, and just Now being reintroduced in the M1AC - a Note as a former m1a2sepv2 user.

And no, there is no time ”going Cross-country” where the turbine gets *more* fuel-efficient on long-term average than a turbodiesel. There is always so much lull and so many temporary wtf-maybe-halts-lets-see-If-we-Keep-going-this-way that the idle guzzle of the turbine just isnt as efficient- Especially when longer range movements are usually tied to roads to let the supply train stay along. Literally the only example of this long of a Cross-country hike wouldve been the massive flank across desert preceding 73 easting abd similar desert hikes. In eastern/central European terrain diesel will be more fuel-efficient 11 out of 10 Times.

Granted, battery longevity issues on later m1 platforms were not just due to turbine But a logical continuity of the post-1980 development that multiplied the amount of electronics in the tank itself. M1 baseline had a single thermal camera, and batteries to match. Fast forward to 2020 and an m1a2sepv2 has What, three to four, depending on the configuration.

Which brings the counterpoint that at least m1 had *some* baseline allowance for further increase in electricity consumption/system upgrade leeway.

I am not expert, But my money is on t-72 as a platform having somewhere between ”none” and Negative five” on that part.

Yeah, that makes sense. I was basing that off some evaluation trial results comparing the Leo 2(A4?) and M1A2. It was a lot less of a difference in MPG off-road. If they were using a known route it would have cut down on the factors you describe.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:10

lilljonas: May 6, 2007; We got crabs? We got crabs!

cinci zoo sniper posted:

What? No, only hovels not refurbished in decades have shared utilities meters for anything here at least.

Not if you have district heating, like a lot of urban centres here in Sweden. I get my heating through hot water from a central furnace in the city, and the cost is a charge that everyone in our apartment building share. It's dirt cheap and very efficient compared to heating individual buildings. As long as we have trash to burn we're free from Putin's terror.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:19

cgeq: Jun 5, 2004

Fat Samurai posted:

Asking people to consume less seems political suicide.

Why don't they just do a media blitz to get the populace on their side? You'd think having cheaper energy would be more popular.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:22

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

lilljonas posted:

Not if you have district heating, like a lot of urban centres here in Sweden. I get my heating through hot water from a central furnace in the city, and the cost is a charge that everyone in our apartment building share. It's dirt cheap and very efficient compared to heating individual buildings. As long as we have trash to burn we're free from Putin's terror.

Just goes to show how insane it is to say "I assume it's like this everywhere in Europe", to which the answer is always "no"

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:22

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

lilljonas posted:

Not if you have district heating, like a lot of urban centres here in Sweden. I get my heating through hot water from a central furnace in the city, and the cost is a charge that everyone in our apartment building share. It's dirt cheap and very efficient compared to heating individual buildings. As long as we have trash to burn we're free from Putin's terror.

We have individual meters for centralised heating as well, since different apartments can have different coefficients applied, based on heat consumption (=external wall surface area), or opt out of centralised heating, or increase/reduce its consumption via thermostat-equipped radiators, central-heating connected towel dryers (don�t recommend having those flood your apartment with hot water, that was not a fun 2017 morning for me), and so on. Functionally you�re right that the central authority is going to bill just the building, but the internal billing in the buildings is far from always going to be a function of just an apartment�s volume, in a true geometrical proportion.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 12:37 on Sep 20, 2022

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:27

bad boys for life: Jun 6, 2003; by sebmojo

Atreiden posted:

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1572163073712046082

What does "voluntary surrender" mean exactly? Does that mean they will imprison you if you have to surrender if you're being overrun, or if you surrender without an immediate need?

Translations are always finicky.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:27

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

bad boys for life posted:

What does "voluntary surrender" mean exactly? Does that mean they will imprison you if you have to surrender if you're being overrun, or if you surrender without an immediate need?

Translations are always finicky.

The latter, so when you just walk over and surrender because you can�t be arsed anymore, for example.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:30

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

bad boys for life posted:

What does "voluntary surrender" mean exactly? Does that mean they will imprison you if you have to surrender if you're being overrun, or if you surrender without an immediate need?

Translations are always finicky.

Whatever the state prosecutor decides after you get back in POW exchange. Refer to the Red Army practice from WW2 when recaptured prisoners were sent to Gulag unless they could prove innocence.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:32

mlmp08: Jul 11, 2004; Prepare for my priapic projectile's exalted penetration; Nap Ghost

Small update, highlights then excerpts as I choose.

https://www.defense.gov/News/Transc...round-briefing/

Highlights:
-Russian military continues to miss Putin's deadlines and fail to meet strategic objectives and struggles with manpower requirements to fill units it has
-Russia has been targeting civilian infrastructure in retaliation after Ukraine retook Kharkiv Oblast west of the Oskil River
-Ukraine mostly consolidating gains in Kharkiv, some fighting vicinity Kupiansk, Russia has taken "a few hundred" meters vic Bakhumut, Ukraine continues assault in Kherson
-The fight is far from over
-Western tanks are under consideration in longer term, but SDO points out that Ukraine can sustain Soviet-model tanks today, so they remain the focus for immediate supply, as changes to NATO model weaponry takes time both in training of operation but training and stocking of maintenance and logistics.
-When asked about giving Ukraine longer range artillery options, SDO reaffirms that the US will provide GMLRS and that future capabilities that might one day come to be are open-ended, but that for now the US is providing GMLRS. (my note: I am increasingly close to not posting ATACMS updates anymore, because they have been asked and answered almost every press conference for a couple months now, and the answer is always some wording of the same: The US has made a decision not to field ATACMS to Ukraine, and the US does not wish to explain that decision in any detail beyond saying GMLRS is sufficient for Ukraine's needs)

quote:

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: Hello, good afternoon. Just a few things from me today to -- to kick things off.

The bottom line, as we look at the battlefield, is that Russia is failing in its strategic objective. On September 1st, you might recall President Putin called for the entirety of Donetsk province to be under Russian control by September 15th, but Putin's forces clearly have failed to deliver.

We're seeing the Kremlin increasingly straining to find new recruits to fill out their thin ranks, and the Russians are performing so poorly that the news from Kharkiv province has inspired many Russian volunteers to refuse combat.

Now, many of you have likely seen the video circulating on social media of the private military contractor, Wagner's leader Prigozhin, trying to recruit Russian prisoners as well as Tajik -- Tajiks, Belarusians, and Armenians to join the fight in Ukraine.

We believe this is part of Wagner's campaign to recruit over 1,500 convicted felons but many are refusing. Our information indicates that Wagner has been suffering high losses in Ukraine, especially and unsurprisingly among young and inexperienced fighters.

Meanwhile, from the Ukrainians, we continue to see their high morale as they continue to push forward in a very deliberate fashion. In eastern Ukraine, Ukraine now controls all its territory west of the Oskil River and is -- has liberated over 300 settlements in Kharkiv province. If you look at the geography, this is more than Rhode Island and Delaware combined, in U.S. terms.

But we all know that this fight is far from over. Now we're seeing the Russians retaliating for Ukrainian gains, they're targeting critical and civilian infrastructure. So we here at the Department of Defense will continue -- we will continue to provide Ukraine with what they need for their current fight, when they need it.

I know that last week, you heard (inaudible) detail the most recent security assistance package provided for Ukraine's critical needs. It was a $600 million package and the 21st presidential drawdown package. And we will continue to also work on Ukraine's mid and long term needs, even as we support their fight today.

And that's it from me for now. Look forward to your questions.

SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL: Thank you, ma'am. Ladies and gentlemen, just a -- a few things to add to that.

In terms of -- just a -- a quick walk around the battlefield -- and again, for tactical level detail, I'd refer you to the Ukrainians -- but in the vicinity of Kharkiv, we assess that the Ukrainians continue to make efforts to consolidate their gains and are holding the border to the southeast. We've observed fighting in the vicinity to the east of Kupiansk. In the meantime, the Russians continue to attempt to shore up their -- their defensive lines and -- and solidify their position.

In the vicinity of Lyman, east of Izyum, we do see continued fighting, to include artillery. Meanwhile, in the Donbas region, near Bakhmut, the Ukrainians have continued to effectively defend against continued Russian attacks, although we have seen Russian forces make some minor gains, in terms of territory, but we're talking a few hundred meters, nothing considerably substantial at this stage.

In the vicinity of Kherson, we continue to see deliberate and calibrated operations by the Ukrainians and we have observed Ukrainians continuing to liberate villages in this area.

On the air side, we have -- we do assess that Russians continue to conduct airstrikes that are impacting civilian infrastructure -- for example, most recently striking a dam near Kryvyi Rih and a power plant -- near a power plant in Mykolaiv -- and this disturbing pattern, which includes strikes that hit power stations last week, continues to show Russian forces' disregard for civilian life.

...

QUESTION: Yes, thank you very much. I have two questions. There was a strike near by a nuclear power plant today in Ukraine. Do you have anything on that? And my second question to the senior defense official, we talked about mid and long-term needs. How close are we, to these concentrations and can you just detail up what are we talking about mid and long-range and long-term needs. Thank you.

SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL: OK. Thanks, Kasim. I'll take the first question and then I'll turn it over to the senior defense official. So the -- we assessed that the strike hit a sub power station near the power plant but did not directly strike the power plant. So again, causing some damage there but something we'll continue to keep an eye on. But let me turn it over to the senior defense official for your second question.

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: Sure. So in the long-term we foresee Ukraine as having enduring security needs for a strong Ukrainian armed forces. We certainly recognize that we are providing Ukraine with capabilities that they're using in the fight today. Some of these capabilities will be depleted by the current fight and they'll need to be replaced.

Some of the capabilities that Ukraine is using today are soviet type weapons that will be hard to replace with -- with, you know, Russian -- originally Russian manufactured type weapons and we�ll want to help Ukraine to transition some of their force structure to capabilities that are compatible with NATO.

So in all of these areas we're looking to make sure that we're making investments today so that through the long-term procurement process, Ukraine will have the capability -- capabilities it needs down the road, not just days or months, but also years.

QUESTION: Yes, this is for the senior defense official. You mentioned that you're providing Ukraine with what they need, when they need it. Now there were three Ukrainian parliament members in town last week meeting with members of Congress. They're pushing for tanks. And they say there's some support on the Hill.

Is that something under consideration by either DOD or the administration? Could you address that?

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: Sure. So we agreed that armor is a really important capability area for the Ukrainians. Now they've largely been relying on Soviet type tanks and we've spent a good deal of effort in encouraging countries largely in Europe who have some of these, you know, formally Russian made tanks to provide them to Ukraine to supplement Ukraine's existing tank inventory.

But as I said before, when we look at Ukraine's longer term needs, we recognize that there will be a day when they may want to transition and may need to transition to, you know, NATO compatible models. We're always very cognizant though with any new equipment that we provide to Ukraine or that our allies, our partners provide that there is substantial training, maintenance and sustainment -- and sustainment consideration.

So we want to make sure that when we provide capabilities that all of these are taken into account.

QUESTION: Well, again, are you at least considering tanks as they are requesting or is that a non starter?

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: Tanks are absolutely on the table along with other areas. We're looking at the entirety of the Ukrainian armed forces and considering for the future what -- what capabilities they will need and how the U.S. and our allies will be able to support Ukraine in building out those capabilities.

QUESTION: OK. So again, for the future but not for the current fight in the coming months, correct?

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: In -- in terms of the immediate fight the -- the tanks that are available that could be provided very quickly with little to no training are soviet type tanks but we're certainly open to other options provided that the training, maintenance and sustainment can be taken care of.

...

SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL: Thank you. Let's go to Barbara Starr, CNN.

QUESTION: Hey, this is Oren with Barbara here. I was wondering if we could get an update on Russia's use of Iranian drones in Ukraine. The administration had downgraded intelligence that they were -- Russia was negotiating with those drones and then they purchased those drones. And there were some reports that they had been used. Do you have an estimate on how many, have they been used extensively, where and -- and in what timeframe have you seen them used? Thank you.

SENIOR MILITARY OFFICIAL: Yeah, thanks, Oren. What I can tell you is that we have seen the -- the press reporting on this certainly. We continue to monitor information coming from the battlefield and we do know that Russia intends to employ this capability in Ukraine.

But in terms of anything beyond that at this time, I don't have any -- I don't have any information to provide in regards to actual battlefield employment. Thank you.

...

Q: Hi. A question for the Senior Defense Official -- you talked about long range weapons needs by the Ukrainians. Does that still include any kind of a rocket or a missile that has a longer range than the GMLRS that you're currently giving them?

And I think it's our understanding that the Ukrainians continue to press for longer range systems beyond the GMLR. What's the rationale for that? Is that also on the table? Any comment on that? Thanks.

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: Sure. Right now, our focus is really on the capabilities that we see as most useful in the current fight, and it is the -- the GMLR that -- that -- the HIMARS are able to employ that we've seen be so incredibly effective in the Ukrainian offensive near Kharkiv, as well as in -- in the south. We see Ukraine making very effective use of the GMLRS. So that is the focus of our security assistance packages right now.

Q: Right, that's right now, but you said that there are other programs that are on the table for longer-term. Are there any longer range systems that are on the table for the long-term?

SENIOR DEFENSE OFFICIAL: I would say that our -- our -- our longer term look at the Ukrainian future force is -- is exploring a wide range of options, but I don't have any -- any options for that longer term to convey today.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:37

Sri.Theo: Apr 16, 2008

lilljonas posted:

Not if you have district heating, like a lot of urban centres here in Sweden. I get my heating through hot water from a central furnace in the city, and the cost is a charge that everyone in our apartment building share. It's dirt cheap and very efficient compared to heating individual buildings. As long as we have trash to burn we're free from Putin's terror.

It�s the same in Copenhagen (we burn waste which is keeping fuel costs down right now) but we still have individual metering.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:41

dr_rat: Jun 4, 2001

cinci zoo sniper posted:

The latter, so when you just walk over and surrender because you can�t be arsed anymore, for example.

fatherboxx posted:

Whatever the state prosecutor decides after you get back in POW exchange. Refer to the Red Army practice from WW2 when recaptured prisoners were sent to Gulag unless they could prove innocence.

Yeah the difference between how it is written and how it will be instituted. I doubt the Ukrainian army is going to be giving the Russians much information on how each individual POW surrendered whenever they do an exchange.

Anyway just looked it up, seems the current Russian prison system has about half a million prisoners, so Russia probably could if it wanted to add quite a few thousand more without particularly noticing. Certainly not going to help them get more people in the army though.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:43

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

Nothing says the goons are grown up now as getting riled up about heating billing methods :allears:

In other news:
Russian-backed separatists in Kherson say they will hold vote on joining Russia
MOSCOW, Sept 20 (Reuters) - Russian-installed officials in the Kherson region of Ukraine said they have decided to hold a referendum on joining Russia and have urged the Kremlin to give its permission as soon as possible, the separatist head of the region said on Tuesday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-backed-separatists-kherson-say-they-will-hold-vote-joining-russia-2022-09-20/

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:43

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Atreiden posted:

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1572163073712046082

I wonder if this is a deliberate prelude to mobilisation, a contingency in case they decide to go with full mobilisation, or a signal to the Ukraine/the west that they'll do it if they're pushed?

Some of those items would probably be useful for them even without mobilising though, being able to threaten troops with prison for refusing to fight, or surrendering might slightly ease their manpower issues. Or maybe it'll just increase the resistance against fighting since the refuseniks have less to lose.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:44

TulliusCicero: Jul 29, 2017

mobby_6kl posted:

Nothing says the goons are grown up now as getting riled up about heating billing methods

In other news:
Russian-backed separatists in Kherson say they will hold vote on joining Russia
MOSCOW, Sept 20 (Reuters) - Russian-installed officials in the Kherson region of Ukraine said they have decided to hold a referendum on joining Russia and have urged the Kremlin to give its permission as soon as possible, the separatist head of the region said on Tuesday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-backed-separatists-kherson-say-they-will-hold-vote-joining-russia-2022-09-20/

Something you do when the war is going GREAT! :shepface:

Why does Russia think these bullshit referendums have any standing at all to the world? Everyone knows they rig everything all the time anyway.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:45

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

fatherboxx posted:

Whatever the state prosecutor decides after you get back in POW exchange. Refer to the Red Army practice from WW2 when recaptured prisoners were sent to Gulag unless they could prove innocence.

So pretty soon their options will be -

" refuse to fight, get gulag'ed",

"enlist, go fight, get captured/surrender, POW swap then get gulag'ed"

"enlist, go fight, die" ?

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:47

OddObserver: Apr 3, 2009

mobby_6kl posted:

Nothing says the goons are grown up now as getting riled up about heating billing methods

In other news:
Russian-backed separatists in Kherson say they will hold vote on joining Russia
MOSCOW, Sept 20 (Reuters) - Russian-installed officials in the Kherson region of Ukraine said they have decided to hold a referendum on joining Russia and have urged the Kremlin to give its permission as soon as possible, the separatist head of the region said on Tuesday.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russian-backed-separatists-kherson-say-they-will-hold-vote-joining-russia-2022-09-20/

Reuters continues being trash. "Russian-backed separatists" for literal occupation government?

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:48

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Failed Imagineer posted:

So pretty soon their options will be -

" refuse to fight, get gulag'ed",

"enlist, go fight, get captured/surrender, POW swap then get gulag'ed"

"enlist, go fight, die" ?

Life is cheap in Russia, more so when it's just a bunch of ethnic minorities that no one in Moscow gives a gently caress about.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:49

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

gay picnic defence posted:

Life is cheap in Russia, more so when it's just a bunch of ethnic minorities that no one in Moscow gives a gently caress about.

No doubt, I'm just struggling to see how that approach incentivises anything but mass draft refusal

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:50

gay picnic defence: Oct 5, 2009; I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Failed Imagineer posted:

No doubt, I'm just struggling to see how that approach incentivises anything but mass draft refusal

By making the gulags worse than fighting and dying I guess.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 12:59

Haystack: Jan 23, 2005

TulliusCicero posted:

Why does Russia think these bullshit referendums have any standing at all to the world? Everyone knows they rig everything all the time anyway.

Gotta maintain kayfabe.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 13:01

Shifty Pony: Dec 28, 2004; Up ta somethin'

TulliusCicero posted:

Something you do when the war is going GREAT!

Why does Russia think these bullshit referendums have any standing at all to the world? Everyone knows they rig everything all the time anyway.

I mentioned earlier that it really seems like the pressure for a referendum is coming from the occupation governments. A whole bunch of traitors and collaborators getting nervous about not officially being Russian citizens.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 13:03

fatherboxx: Mar 25, 2013

Referendums and "legal" annexation lets them station conscripts there, i.e. use as cannon fodder

Failed Imagineer posted:

No doubt, I'm just struggling to see how that approach incentivises anything but mass draft refusal

At this point it is mainly to scare refuseniks who are already serving.

fatherboxx fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Sep 20, 2022

# ? Sep 20, 2022 13:04

spankmeister: Jun 15, 2008

lilljonas posted:

Not if you have district heating, like a lot of urban centres here in Sweden. I get my heating through hot water from a central furnace in the city, and the cost is a charge that everyone in our apartment building share. It's dirt cheap and very efficient compared to heating individual buildings. As long as we have trash to burn we're free from Putin's terror.

Maybe in a district-heated hovel, but in my district-heated apartment, each radiator has individual heat meters that wirelessly transmit your usage and you're billed accordingly.

So, in short:

Failed Imagineer posted:

Just goes to show how insane it is to say "I assume it's like this everywhere in Europe", to which the answer is always "no"

# ? Sep 20, 2022 13:07

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

Putin addresses the nation tonight, likely imo to announce his intention to annex DNR and LNR

# ? Sep 20, 2022 13:29

Atreiden: May 4, 2008

https://twitter.com/meduza_en/status/1572201364754669568

# ? Sep 20, 2022 13:31

FishBulbia: Dec 22, 2021

Atreiden posted:

https://twitter.com/meduza_en/status/1572201364754669568

https://twitter.com/GazetaRu/status/1572195608483479557

Russian stock market seems to be expecting mobilization as a result

# ? Sep 20, 2022 13:32

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

Yeah, starts smelling like �referendums� + mobilisation of conscripts into the areas could be the play to try to freeze this conflict, given that they confirmed 2nd and 3rd readings of the refusenik law in a minute. Besides the audacity of it as is, Zaporizhzhia �referendum� is particularly galling, as they are occupying just a handful of rural counties there.

Going to drop a preemptive reminder that I�ll be doing strafing runs on any nuke chat more involved than �Russia will threaten� until they�re basically flying.

Simultaneously, it bears repeating that if they start the referenda now, they�ve all but admitted that they�ve lost, and at this point I don�t expect western powers to call on Ukraine to slow down at least until the border of Crimea, if they get that far. And even then, I�m not currently picturing them trying to ask Ukraine to abandon Crimea.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 14:24 on Sep 20, 2022

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:08

Patrocclesiastes: Apr 30, 2009

Putin's speech is actually the announcement to nuke Ukraine

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:12

Deltasquid: Apr 10, 2013; awww...
you guys made me ink!

THUNDERDOME

It�s such nonsense. Throw Russia into a forever hellwar, for what exactly? The privilege of speeding up the demographic crisis + feeding the American and European MIC for the foreseeable future?

I doubt conscripts are going to break the stalemate. I hope Chomsky et al call out Russia�s futile flailing as an unnecessary prolongation of a conflict they can�t win and a provocation of NATO�s legitimate security concerns.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:13

PederP: Nov 20, 2009

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Yeah, starts smelling like �referendums� + mobilisation of conscripts into the areas could be the play to try to freeze this conflict, given that they confirmed 2nd and 3rd readings of the refusenik law in a minute. Besides the audacity of it as is, Zaporizhzhia �referendum� is particularly galling, as they are occupying just a handful of rural counties there.

Going to drop a preemptive reminder that I�ll be doing strafing runs on any nuke chat more involved than �Russia will threaten� until they�re basically flying.

Simultaneously, it bears repeating that if they start the referenda now, and they�ve all but admitted that they�ve lost, and at this point I don�t expect western powers to call on Ukraine to slow down at least until the border of Crimea, if they get that far. And even then, I�m not currently picturing them trying to ask Ukraine to abandon Crimea.

Erdogan saying Putin should hand over Crimea has made it a lot harder for European countries to say that Russia should have it as a compromise.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:15

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

The big question in my thought experiment with, e.g., annexing Kherson into Russia �de jure� and then stationing conscripts there is the material base of it all. What�s going to hold the line in addition to what there is, Lada technicals where the �technical� part is a teenager hanging out of the window with an AK-74?

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 14:19 on Sep 20, 2022

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:17

mobby_6kl: Aug 9, 2009; by Fluffdaddy

cinci zoo sniper posted:

The big question in my thought experiment with, e.g., annexing Kherson into Russia �de jure� and then stationing conscripts there is the material base of it all. What�s going to hold the line in addition to what there is, Lada technicals where the �technical� part is a teenager hanging out of then window with an AK-74?

The other thing I don't get about this, sure this give them legal cover to send conscripts to Ukraine. But they're still conscripts, how is it going to look politically when middle class kids start getting killed there?

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:19

cinci zoo sniper: Mar 15, 2013

E: ^^^^^ The most salient point of them all, perhaps. Especially after Pugacheva weighted in against the regime.

PederP posted:

Erdogan saying Putin should hand over Crimea has made it a lot harder for European countries to say that Russia should have it as a compromise.

I agree. The strongest rhetoric I consider practically probable in the moment is to pressure Ukraine into being considerate about would-be evacuating colonists. But this is all really speculative, let�s wait for the evening news first, if any.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:19

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# ? Jun 1, 2024 02:31

Nenonen: Oct 22, 2009; Mulla on aina kolkyt donaa taskussa

cinci zoo sniper posted:

Yeah, at this point it would take a person that doesn't really exist, to not read between the lines, which leaves you with people zealous or desperate enough to require no substantial coercion.

Russia has been offering pretty big wages for their contract soldiers, though - $3000 per month, over three times the average salary. Some rural boy from Buriatia could only dream of such moneys in civilian life. On top of that there's also considerable signing bonuses. A sucker is born every minute, as they say (but they don't mention that they also die young).

Besides, Russia has one weird trick up its sleeve (NATO hates it): Crimea is a part of Russia! By their legislation, that is. And soon could be Luhansk and Donetsk, too! All conscripts vow to defend Mother Russia. Whether Russian command thinks Russian conscripts would be motivated to fight for e.g. Donbas when even the locals aren't staying in line is anyone's guess. But I suppose we will soon find out if they are that desperate.

# ? Sep 20, 2022 14:28

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