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Shoigu ain't gonna be president, the army doesn't like him because he never served.
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Sep 24, 2022 11:57
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Zedsdeadbaby posted:The Germans were training with wooden guns not that long ago, because a certain unpopular and widely-considered-serially-incompetent defence minister at the time totally gutted military spending. You'd be surprised how many countries totally neglect their militaries during peacetime. One of the very very small number of things Trump had a point about. Nah the world would be a much better place if more countries followed Germany's example and "neglected" military spending.
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Sep 24, 2022 11:57
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Det_no posted:Much as I'd like to point to Russia and laugh, those lovely rusted guns are probably for training. I remember the Ukrainian militia trained with wooden guns earlier this year too. Wooden guns would be a lot less dangerous than this garbage.
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Sep 24, 2022 12:12
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BabyFur Denny posted:Nah the world would be a much better place if more countries followed Germany's example and "neglected" military spending. It would, but those countries would also quickly get invaded and occupied by the countries that don't neglect military spending. As Russia has proven, we have not reached the end of history just yet, and opportunistic land grabs are absolutely still on the table in 2022.
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Sep 24, 2022 12:23
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Deltasquid posted:It would, but those countries would also quickly get invaded and occupied by the countries that don't neglect military spending. As Russia has proven, we have not reached the end of history just yet, and opportunistic land grabs are absolutely still on the table in 2022. Nah as Russia has proven this year is that their conventional army is no danger to NATO and there's no reason for Germany to spend more on its army.
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Sep 24, 2022 12:25
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spankmeister posted:Shoigu ain't gonna be president, the army doesn't like him because he never served. Also, race.
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Sep 24, 2022 12:28
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BabyFur Denny posted:Nah as Russia has proven this year is that their conventional army is no danger to NATO and there's no reason for Germany to spend more on its army. If every country in NATO freeloaded like that Ukraine would have been overrun
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Sep 24, 2022 12:41
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LochNessMonster posted:I believe Russia literally ran out of paper as early as March. If it's available it's probably scarce and likely to be part of embezzlement schemes from government officials. My guess it it's not being "wasted" on things that will help the special operation. Uh, no. They were having difficulties with making white printed paper sheets, due to a dependency on bleach imports from Finland, but that’s a few steps removed from running out of paper. gay picnic defence posted:People can probably tell from the accents of the people speaking but it wouldn't surprise me if it's just hosed up equipment found somewhere recently liberated in Ukraine rather than videos from Russian mobilised troops Russian servicemen speaking with distinct Russian accents. They’re saying a tank crew got issued that and told to gently caress off with words “but you have a tank” when the new owner complained, summarising. Det_no posted:Much as I'd like to point to Russia and laugh, those lovely rusted guns are probably for training. I remember the Ukrainian militia trained with wooden guns earlier this year too. Doesn’t sound like they’re training guns. Enjoy posted:Minister of Defence under President Shoigu? Uh no, this is an utterly deluded tangent, starting from both being incompetent even for “Putin’s lackeys” category of public officials, and ending with neither of them being an ethnic Russian. Shoygu survived in MoD only because he was ready to work overtime to grease every pocket, by, not in the least, dropping an army modernisation program that actually went after grifters and structural bloat.
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Sep 24, 2022 12:45
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BabyFur Denny posted:Nah the world would be a much better place if more countries followed Germany's example and "neglected" military spending. I agree wholeheartedly but unfortunately that's not how the world works. As long as there are bad actors such as Russia there will be a necessity to maintain defensive capabilities. What would happen to Taiwan for example, if they neglected their military spending? China is not benevolent and does not subscribe to your way of thinking. Not to mention that this thread is precisely about a nation that has been invaded by another and is always seeking new armaments from allies.
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Sep 24, 2022 12:51
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Atreiden posted:If every country in NATO freeloaded like that Ukraine would have been overrun Yeah but they didn't so what for should Germany start building tanks now
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Sep 24, 2022 12:58
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BabyFur Denny posted:Yeah but they didn't so what for should Germany start building tanks now To fulfill their commitment to the common defense. I get you want to be edgy and think Germany should freeload, while the rest lift the burden of defense.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:00
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BabyFur Denny posted:Yeah but they didn't so what for should Germany start building tanks now Ah, the tragedy of the commons
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Sep 24, 2022 13:01
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Atreiden posted:To fulfill their commitment to the common defense. I get you want to be edgy and think Germany should freeload, while the rest lift the burden of defense. Defend from what? The Russians are no longer a threat anyone needs to take seriously. If anything, there's even less need for an adequate military than a year ago.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:01
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BabyFur Denny posted:Defend from what? The Russians are no longer a threat anyone needs to take seriously. If anything, there's even less need for an adequate military than a year ago. Tell that to the Ukrainian orphans “produced” every day.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:07
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beer_war posted:Wooden guns would be a lot less dangerous than this garbage. Don't think there's much of a danger assuming they're not shooting them (and I would assume they're not firing even blanks with junk like this), though no doubt the rust will make their clothes dirty. There's an obvious advantage over wooden ones though: they weigh and feel the same as a real gun.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:10
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BabyFur Denny posted:Defend from what? The Russians are no longer a threat anyone needs to take seriously. If anything, there's even less need for an adequate military than a year ago. Ask the French Third Republic.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:12
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BabyFur Denny posted:Defend from what? The Russians are no longer a threat anyone needs to take seriously. If anything, there's even less need for an adequate military than a year ago. Huh? Ukraine may stay independent because of a massive military buildup and support from allies. They lost Crimea years ago because of their inadequate military.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:17
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BabyFur Denny posted:Defend from what? The Russians are no longer a threat anyone needs to take seriously. If anything, there's even less need for an adequate military than a year ago. Even a dying, limp bear can snap your ankles in half if you get careless enough. Plus, you never know what can happen. Fascist regimes fall, but they can also rise. And, as Cinci pointed out, Russia is still actively invading Ukraine. Even now that it looks like it's heading for disaster, they could rebuild. The dead German empire transformed to the nazi reich in 20 years, and surpassed the predecessor in almost every way. I personally am likely to be alive in 20 years, and I hope you will too, and as many Ukrainians as possible. Upgrading a military takes many years. After the eventual victory, it's not going to be the "end of history" this time either.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:18
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Keisari posted:The dead German empire transformed to the nazi reich in 20 years, and surpassed the predecessor in almost every way. I personally am likely to be alive in 20 years, and I hope you will too, and as many Ukrainians as possible. Upgrading a military takes many years. Other than technology, which is simply a factor of the march of time, the Kaiserreich was vastly more successful than Nazi Germany in almost every way.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:20
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Charlz Guybon posted:Other than technology, which is simply a factor of the march of time, the Kaiserreich was vastly more successful than Nazi Germany in almost every way. Well, yes, I left the "almost" there since I remember reading they had a lot of stuff much better together back then, and much nazi success was due to them inheriting a good Prussian system and traditions etc, but I'm not going to derail the thread any further on that part  But, they still came back guns blazing and started krieging everywhere, and we don't know what happens when this all goes to poo poo for Russia. They just might get a guy in charge that makes Putin look like a gentle uncle, and go for a rematch So yeah, keep making guns, keep sending them to Ukraine and destroy Russia's army so thoroughly that they won't be able to do this poo poo again for as long as possible, hopefully ever.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:25
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I think none of these, even mine really help address BabyFur's issue, so let me describe it the other way. It is not easily forgotten that in a time of crisis, Germany struggled to supply Ukraine and actively funded the invasion due to that particular line of thinking. The Eurozone as a concept is lucky to survive and I think the small powers in Europe all have second thoughts about German leadership in the continental project. The bargaining powers of France, China, Britain and the US have increased relative to Germany if any of them come to disagreement.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:29
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Turning away from Germany aye? It's Luxembourg's time to shine!
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Sep 24, 2022 13:35
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piL posted:I think none of these, even mine really help address BabyFur's issue, so let me describe it the other way. It is not easily forgotten that in a time of crisis, Germany struggled to supply Ukraine and actively funded the invasion due to that particular line of thinking. The Eurozone as a concept is lucky to survive and I think the small powers in Europe all have second thoughts about German leadership in the continental project. The bargaining powers of France, China, Britain and the US have increased relative to Germany if any of them come to disagreement. On policy level, the matter is not even this, but simply that Germany is expected to have a functional military, and not having one breaks the “social contract” of collective defence provisions of NATO and EU. Struggle to supply Ukraine they did, but it wasn't their legal obligation to do so. It's more practical to ask how one would feel if Germany takes 5 months to dispatch 5000 helmets and 4 howitzers, just slightly exaggerating the numbers and timelines here, in response to, e.g., a theoretical Syrian invasion of Cyprus.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:40
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Russian servicemen speaking with distinct Russian accents. They’re saying a tank crew got issued that and told to gently caress off with words “but you have a tank” when the new owner complained, summarising. More evidence they're struggling with basic tactical tasks. As much as I used to joke about "death before dismount", you actually dismount a lot as a tanker.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:41
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BabyFur Denny posted:Yeah but they didn't so what for should Germany start building tanks now Ah, the ever present FYGM argument, used my good people everywhere.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:42
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Zat posted:Don't think there's much of a danger assuming they're not shooting them (and I would assume they're not firing even blanks with junk like this), though no doubt the rust will make their clothes dirty. There's an obvious advantage over wooden ones though: they weigh and feel the same as a real gun. With everything we've seen of Putin's Russia and especially its military lately, I would assume they choose the dumbest, cruelest path of action available to them in any given situation.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:42
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spankmeister posted:Shoigu ain't gonna be president, the army doesn't like him because he never served. Yup. The specific reason why Shoigu is in the position he is in is that he cannot possibly be anything more. Literally no-one in the entire state would support him or follow his orders. Kadyrov isn't leaving Checnya either. He is equally hated, and the only reason he is valuable is that he's keeping Chechnya quiet. Also, he is practically a king of his own region, no job other than the President of the entire country would be a step up. If he's actually seeking to break with Putin, it's not because he wants a better job, but because he's expecting Putin to fall and wants to prepare for the aftermath. (Whoever replaces Putin will likely hate Kadyrov, but Kadyrov will be useful for them for the exact same reasons he is useful for Putin. I expect the relationship to continue.) And that's if he is actually trying to break with Putin. He often pushes back somewhat, only to reverse course later. I think the point is to get bribed to toe the line.
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Sep 24, 2022 13:59
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Ynglaur posted:More evidence they're struggling with basic tactical tasks. As much as I used to joke about "death before dismount", you actually dismount a lot as a tanker. Also nice to get a full-length AKM as a tanker instead of say, an AKS-74U with a short barrel and folding stock, which I'm sure they have loads of somewhere.
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Sep 24, 2022 14:00
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piL posted:I think none of these, even mine really help address BabyFur's issue, so let me describe it the other way. It is not easily forgotten that in a time of crisis, Germany struggled to supply Ukraine and actively funded the invasion due to that particular line of thinking. The Eurozone as a concept is lucky to survive and I think the small powers in Europe all have second thoughts about German leadership in the continental project. The bargaining powers of France, China, Britain and the US have increased relative to Germany if any of them come to disagreement. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/09/fact-sheet-on-german-military-aid-to.html quote:Contrary to popular perception, Germany has delivered significant amounts of arms and equipment to Ukraine to aid the country in its fight against the Russian military. In fact, the volume of arms deliveries by Berlin exceeds that of every other country safe for the United States and the United Kingdom. https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1568978542859325441
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Sep 24, 2022 14:10
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Seeing still more indications that this partial mobilization isn't all that partial. Regional capitals are are still being largely spared to minimize political exposure https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1573314121285734401?s=20&t=6yOhRhnS13HIKLm6gPvatQ Edit: Surprised to see Israel still content to straddle the fence like this https://twitter.com/clashreport/status/1573358865751887872?s=20&t=m_YG1pA2NgBwVxprM4zeng
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Sep 24, 2022 14:11
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Tamba posted:https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/09/fact-sheet-on-german-military-aid-to.html Their help is useful, but nominal comparison doesn’t fairly reflect relative ranking, i.e., % of GDP contributed. https://www.ifw-kiel.de/topics/war-against-ukraine/ukraine-support-tracker/ Also, even nominally Germany is at 2.6 Latvias or 0.4 Polands. PerilPastry posted:Seeing still more indications that this partial mobilization isn't all that partial. Regional capitals are are still being largely spared to minimize political exposure Current rumour mill status is at September 28 federal border closure for mobilisation-aged adults, women including, under an assumption that “referenda” conclude by then. https://twitter.com/ian_matveev/status/1573650530081153026 cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Sep 24, 2022 |
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Sep 24, 2022 14:17
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Can someone point me to a good explainer for who Kardyrov is? A long article, a podcast, YouTube video don’t care. I know vaguely who he is from absorbing information about him from ITT and also reading through his Wikipedia page but I’m interested in learning more about him and more specifically what he does/did to get into his position and why he’s being supported.
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Sep 24, 2022 14:30
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Boris Galerkin posted:Can someone point me to a good explainer for who Kardyrov is? A long article, a podcast, YouTube video don’t care. I know vaguely who he is from absorbing information about him from ITT and also reading through his Wikipedia page but I’m interested in learning more about him and more specifically what he does/did to get into his position and why he’s being supported. https://www.rferl.org/a/profile-ramzan-kadyrov-chechnya-russia-putin/26802368.html looks alright for that purpose.
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Sep 24, 2022 14:38
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spankmeister posted:Also nice to get a full-length AKM as a tanker instead of say, an AKS-74U with a short barrel and folding stock, which I'm sure they have loads of somewhere. Yeah, M-16s in even spacious Abrams kind of sucked. Still, better than only having a pistol. An AKS would be great for vehicle crewmen.
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Sep 24, 2022 14:40
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As a finn i have gotten pretty vary of buying any weapons/weapon Systems from Germany or with German made components for FDF. Since FDF exists today 100% due to russian threat.
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Sep 24, 2022 14:51
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the heat goes wrong posted:No he wasn't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siim_Kallas Why are you white washing his collaboration with the occupation government? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Sep 24, 2022 14:51
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Atreiden posted:If every country in NATO freeloaded like that Ukraine would have been overrun  As long as every country includes just the US and UK
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Sep 24, 2022 14:55
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cinci zoo sniper posted:https://www.rferl.org/a/profile-ramzan-kadyrov-chechnya-russia-putin/26802368.html looks alright for that purpose. Thanks
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Sep 24, 2022 15:05
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https://twitter.com/JakeCordell/status/1573647765082628096?s=20&t=_b9VvA_9EcAc5oFyZC15Og
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Sep 24, 2022 15:27
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Lol https://mobile.twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1573035502818807809
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Sep 24, 2022 15:36
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