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Enjoy posted:The UNSC is for avoiding nuclear war. It's necessary to recognise that Russia has the ability to end the world, and there should be a place to resolve disputes without things going that far. To add a slight tangent to this, the Libyan war was only allowed to start because Russia decided to abstain their UNSC vote instead of their usual veto. Sometimes even the bad guys' presence at the table can be necessary to prevent some conflicts. Libya would not be the destabilized & splintered country it is today if the UN did not receive authorization to 'intervene on humanitarian purposes'. It's a lesson Russia would heed properly. It's also a bit like how David Cameron wanted to start a war with Syria but was not allowed to by parliament. Democratic institutions and votes are vital. Exclusion benefits no-one. Russia needs to keep their place at the table for better or worse.
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Oct 9, 2022 16:28
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Be careful scrolling today, videos going around on Twitter and telegram of Russians murdering civilians at Izyum and throwing the corpses downhill into a mass grave
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Oct 9, 2022 16:34
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tehinternet posted:Not much difference doing this vs hitting a bridge that has civilian traffic on it TBH. Intentionally causing one death when you’re going to be killing at least a handful of people with a missile strike, artillery or drone strike doesn’t strike me as any more egregious. Dead is dead whether it was an oopsie or intentional. I dunno, at least for me a suicide bomber doesn’t necessarily bother me. Some Ukrainian guy, 35, wife and children killed by a Russian air strike, seems like an appropriate response. Killing some random Russian civilian truck driver, like Pablo Escobar’s plane bombing, kind of horrific. I feel bad for the car that got incinerated too, but I could watch videos all day of occupied Russian military tanks getting blown to smithereens. I’m sure everyone had their own "NMS" threshold. Still, I don’t blame Ukraine for doing it and I think they made the right call even though 2 or 3 Russian civilians were killed in the attack. I never found the anti-Hiroshima bombing arguments very convincing either, but I found the Nagasaki and Dresden arguments more greyzone - but again just my own threshold. Vv Vv yeah getting empty Russian military equipment blown up is definitely the top choice of the several potential outcomes. Saladman fucked around with this message at 17:17 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 16:52
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HonorableTB posted:Be careful scrolling today, videos going around on Twitter and telegram of Russians murdering civilians at Izyum and throwing the corpses downhill into a mass grave Is this Zhorin one where he caused outrage by calling them "civilian occupiers" or a new one?
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Oct 9, 2022 17:03
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Saladman posted:I dunno, at least for me a suicide bomber doesn’t necessarily bother me. Some Ukrainian guy, 35, wife and children killed by a Russian air strike, seems like an appropriate response. Killing some random Russian civilian truck driver, like Pablo Escobar’s plane bombing, kind of horrific. I feel bad for the car that got incinerated too, but I could watch videos all day of occupied Russian military tanks getting blown to smithereens. I’m sure everyone had their own "NMS" threshold. Still, I don’t blame Ukraine for doing it and I think they made the right call even though 2 or 3 Russian civilians were killed in the attack. I never found the anti-Hiroshima bombing arguments very convincing either, but I found the Nagasaki and Dresden arguments more greyzone - but again just my own threshold. It's always horrible when civilians are killed. It's pretty sad when anyone is killed, even Russian soldiers - everyone would prefer they surrendered and survived. In this case, the fact is that these people are transporting goods and travelling to and from occupied territory in an active war zone. There's an inherent danger in doing this. I doubt it's a coincidence that Ukraine did this at 5am or whatever when there was almost no traffic on the bridge but at some point you have to take your shot to try to reduce the number of your own civilians who are being killed by Russia and liberate your territory
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Oct 9, 2022 17:08
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Aertuun posted:You don't need to build a "bomb" and smuggle it anywhere. At the very simplest, you just need to get some sort of detonation device onto a truck full of (the right kind of) fertilizer. yeah i'm familiar with ammonium nitrate Ammonium nitrate as an explosive is pretty much always mixed with something, eg anfo, because it doesn't ignite that readily? and if you've got the sophistication to launch an attack against a highly defended target you've got the sophistication to make the stuff into a far more effective and reliable form. I'm deeply not sold on the idea that a truck loaded with pure AN fertilizer was the method, honestly getting a big ANFO bomb past lovely russian bridge security seems more likely. Or a small ANFO bomb in with a bunch of other AN or w/e. In any event this comes back to the core point that we still don't have an explanation that is head and shoulders a better explanation than any other. Truck bomb may well be the explanation, but announcing your plans to blow the bridge six months in advance, repeatedly, and then making your plan 'fuckit we'll just drive a truck bomb through a security checkpoint who won't suspect a thing' doesn't seem like an especially high probability plan. Especially to do so at the exact moment that there's a fuel train stopped on the bridge. That said, lol if they big brained it 'what if we combined a train full of fuel and a truck full of AN.' Hell, you could even use a separate source of ignition. maybe neonen's shitpost was right that it was an 'all of the above' attack Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 17:10
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FishBulbia posted:Is this Zhorin one where he caused outrage by calling them "civilian occupiers" or a new one? I think that’s the same, and that the video is from Kupyansk.
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Oct 9, 2022 17:21
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Herstory Begins Now posted:yeah i'm familiar with ammonium nitrate It isn't the worst plan. If you are at the checkpoint and they find it you just detonate and gently caress up the checkpoint bad enough it's going to stop traffic going across for a while and slow down all shipments in the future as security is trebled.
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Oct 9, 2022 17:21
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cinci zoo sniper posted:I think that’s the same, and that the video is from Kupyansk. So for a bit more context, the claims going around are that the source of the video is Ex-Azov commander Maksym Zhorin, and that the metadata shows that it was recorded today, less than an hour before it was uploaded - the implication being that his unit has been murdering pro-Russian civilian collaborators rather than the video coming from a captured Russian phone. If I'm repeating something that's been debunked, let me know.
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Oct 9, 2022 17:41
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D-Pad posted:It isn't the worst plan. If you are at the checkpoint and they find it you just detonate and gently caress up the checkpoint bad enough it's going to stop traffic going across for a while and slow down all shipments in the future as security is trebled. Yeah I don't think it's a horrible plan, I'm just not sold that it's good enough that you bank everything on it because you get one really good shot at the bridge so it better be your best shot.
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Oct 9, 2022 17:44
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Saladman posted:but I could watch videos all day of occupied Russian military tanks getting blown to smithereens. that is not healthy imo. Unfortunately this war is going to scar a lot of people, and social media is a prime reason for it. This poo poo is completely desensitizing and in a very different way than watching a war history documentary or sth. T_T Dante80 fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 17:52
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Dante80 posted:that is not healthy imo. Unfortunately this war is going to scar a lot of people, and social media is a prime reason for it. This poo poo is completely desensitizing and in a very different way than watching a war history documentary or sth. Lol, my parents bought me bomb damage videos from Iraq 1 published by, or at least endorsed by, the us military. At best social media is just amplifying and expanding the pool of content. The bloodlust is, sadly, not new. e: the only difference was a shittier soundtrack and it was in english Bel Shazar fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 17:59
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Herstory Begins Now posted:eg where scorch marks at? I cant seem to find it, but earlier there was a photo posted somewhere in the thread with a post-explosion view from far above showing huge scorch marks on the road. Herstory Begins Now posted:In any event this comes back to the core point that we still don't have an explanation that is head and shoulders a better explanation than any other. If we can fairly confidently rule out a missile and a boat, then we get there by elimination. Ukraine does not have the capability (that we know of) to fire missiles that powerful all the way to that bridge, and there is no visible damage under the bridge from a boat. (Plus if you think a truck bomb is far-fetched as plans go, well trying to sneak a boat bomb unnoticed under there is a lot less plausible) Also, if Russia's guards at the road checkpoint were lazy and incompetent, Ukraine would have definitively determined that with a lot of test runs before really going for it. After the guards glance into a test truck for the 5th time before waving you past, you can probably start planning your truck bomb. Rigel fucked around with this message at 18:14 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 18:09
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If it was a truck bomb, was it coming from the Crimean or Russian end of the bridge, out of curiosity?
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Oct 9, 2022 18:16
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Tomberforce posted:If it was a truck bomb, was it coming from the Crimean or Russian end of the bridge, out of curiosity? Russian. We know the truck it was on (if it was a truck bomb).
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Oct 9, 2022 18:17
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It seems bad that the commander in chief of the Ukrainian armed forces is posting a picture of himself where you can zoom in and see for yourself a swastika on his bracelet. https://twitter.com/CinC_AFU/status/1578083916296192000 (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2022 18:19
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evilweasel posted:Russian. We know the truck it was on (if it was a truck bomb). Acquiring explosive materials on the Russian black market is probably easier on the Russian mainland than it would be on Crimea I assume. They'll probably be more on the lookout for partisan activity there, but the black market for stolen military supplies must be huge in Russia overall.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:24
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One big indicator towards the theory that the truck driver didn't know is the fact that the truck didn't do anything at all unusual before the explosion. Even pulling over to the inside shoulder would have drastically improved the odds of taking out both spans.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:25
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:It seems bad that the commander in chief of the Ukrainian armed forces is posting a picture of himself where you can zoom in and see for yourself a swastika on his bracelet. I do not see a swastika even magnified as far as it will go on my computer.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:25
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Rigel posted:I do not see a swastika even magnified as far as it will go on my computer. Works easier on a phone but oh yeaaaaa it's there.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:27
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adebisi lives posted:Works easier on a phone but oh yeaaaaa it's there. Yep, you are right, it is a lot clearer on a phone. weird, wonder why the magnifier sucks on a PC.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:29
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:It seems bad that the commander in chief of the Ukrainian armed forces is posting a picture of himself where you can zoom in and see for yourself a swastika on his bracelet. Thought the man was Jewish?
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Oct 9, 2022 18:31
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Rigel posted:If we can fairly confidently rule out a missile and a boat, then we get there by elimination. Ukraine does not have the capability (that we know of) to fire missiles that powerful all the way to that bridge, and there is no visible damage under the bridge from a boat. (Plus if you think a truck bomb is far-fetched as plans go, well trying to sneak a boat bomb unnoticed under there is a lot less plausible) I saw some speculation that it was ATACMS, but yeah that indeed doesn't seem super likely as the bridge is just almost barely in range, and the CEP on ATACMS is 9 metres (Wikipedia info) so that sounds like it's fairly likely that the missile would just miss the bridge altogether. There are apparently airburst variants of ATACMS though... but still too little info, further speculation will probably just devolve into clancychat.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:31
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Rigel posted:Yep, you are right, it is a lot clearer on a phone. weird, wonder why the magnifier sucks on a PC. I had the same problem at first because Twitter goes to some lengths to force you to view a compressed version of an image, but yeah, if you go to the original tweet on Twitter rather than an embed, open the image in a new tab, and then zoom in you can see it pretty clearly.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:32
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Just Another Lurker posted:Thought the man was Jewish? Commander in chief and president aren't the same title in most countries, that's not Zelensky.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:32
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adebisi lives posted:Works easier on a phone but oh yeaaaaa it's there. It's a simple enough shape to appear randomly on a bracelet that appears to otherwise be random patterns. I'd love to know who's analysing every pixel of every photo released by Ukraine in order to find evidence to support an obvious Russian smear justifying a genocidal war of conquest.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:33
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Chalks posted:It's a simple enough shape to appear randomly on a bracelet that appears to otherwise be random patterns. I do enjoy occasionally the game of zooming in on photos of Ukrainian troops to play where's Waldo with black sun and death's head patches so I'm sure I'm not the only one. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Oct 9, 2022 18:37
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Chalks posted:It's a simple enough shape to appear randomly on a bracelet that appears to otherwise be random patterns. It's very obviously not random patterns, and if I were a Ukrainian general with absolutely no Nazi sympathies I would simply not post pictures of myself that provide Russia with evidence of one of their stated reasons for invading my country.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:38
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I agree it doesn't look good but on closer inspection it's possible it could be an unfortunate result of some sort of pattern not intended to be a swastika, like 4 intertwining roots or something. The lines don't look like engravings but rather the shadows between 4 rounded pieces.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:39
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Tarezax posted:I agree it doesn't look good but on closer inspection it's possible it could be an unfortunate result of some sort of pattern not intended to be a swastika, like 4 intertwining roots or something. The lines don't look like engravings but rather the shadows between 4 rounded pieces. Stolen from the Cold War thread but it seems like it might just be this bracelet and a bad reflection/blurry image making one of the bits look more swastiky. https://twitter.com/paul_lehelbakh/status/1579154941574545408
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Oct 9, 2022 18:40
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Has russia been posting any updates on their bridge repairs yet?
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Oct 9, 2022 18:42
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Tarezax posted:I agree it doesn't look good but on closer inspection it's possible it could be an unfortunate result of some sort of pattern not intended to be a swastika, like 4 intertwining roots or something. The lines don't look like engravings but rather the shadows between 4 rounded pieces. No that makes too much sense, I personally think the guy is such a big Nazi that he simply couldn't help but publically display a swastika, just couldn't contain himself
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Oct 9, 2022 18:43
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Stolen from the Cold War thread but it seems like it might just be this bracelet and a bad reflection/blurry image making one of the bits look more swastiky. The lines aren't straight and the gaps aren't the same, either. Whatever it is, I don't think it's a swastika, unless it's very crudely drawn. Sir John Falstaff fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Oct 9, 2022 |
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Oct 9, 2022 18:45
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Dr Kool-AIDS posted:It seems bad that the commander in chief of the Ukrainian armed forces is posting a picture of himself where you can zoom in and see for yourself a swastika on his bracelet. So this is what morons gonna spend next few days doing to take attention from another missile strike on civilians?
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Oct 9, 2022 18:47
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https://twitter.com/paul_lehelbakh/status/1579163132123320320?s=20&t=RqI9AQ95eVKDxOhOI6JQOA Put your phone at arms length and squint, and imagine it sunlit. I could easily see a swastika appear under the right lighting. Also looking again at the original photo, I can see the shadow of the little divot of the nub in the center
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Oct 9, 2022 18:48
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Tarezax posted:https://twitter.com/paul_lehelbakh/status/1579163132123320320?s=20&t=RqI9AQ95eVKDxOhOI6JQOA I don't see it, but if it's just a really really specific weird coincidence that's a good thing.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:49
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Stolen from the Cold War thread but it seems like it might just be this bracelet and a bad reflection/blurry image making one of the bits look more swastiky. Looks similar, but I don't think it's the same exact bracelet. Also, looking at some other items Pakabone sell, you may start to wonder...  For reference, it's the same not-swastika Wagner's Rusich are using after retiring a slightly more obvious swastika as their logo. Scandinavian aesthetics were always popular among neo-nazis. Zaluzhnyi was never really outspoken about his ideological leanings outside of patriotism to Ukraine, so who knows how intentional it was. Sometimes coincidences happen, though. 
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Oct 9, 2022 18:51
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Just Another Lurker posted:Has russia been posting any updates on their bridge repairs yet? Everything is back to normal operations. https://twitter.com/Safeboom1/status/1579124421264306176 Depending on who you ask, the bridge either fine or it is still damaged and any traffic going across is slow and sparse.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:52
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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Stolen from the Cold War thread but it seems like it might just be this bracelet and a bad reflection/blurry image making one of the bits look more swastiky. I was thinking more along the lines of a Celtic knot with the swastika as the unintentional relief:  ...But who knows. Dude looks like no one to gently caress with while he's outflanking Russians.
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Oct 9, 2022 18:56
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I'm pretty sure its just the swirly symbol to the right of the center (third from the right) in this: It matches the angle pretty perfectly.
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