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https://twitter.com/fineanddanya/status/1603312903196532736?s=20&t=TMZZhoCGEXa7MrUZ4Z773w
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Dec 16, 2022 02:05
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uber_stoat posted:https://twitter.com/fineanddanya/status/1603312903196532736?s=20&t=TMZZhoCGEXa7MrUZ4Z773w This sent me on a hunt to see what kind of paranormal things the French do have, and I found this sassy Mac Tonight looking rear end in a top hat:  That's the Nain Rouge aka the Red Dwarf, a harbinger of terrible things ranging from battles in the 17-1800s up through a bad ice storm a few decades ago. Apparently he only has a secondhand French connection though: while he is allegedly from Normandy his actual popularity is associated with the French population associated with Detroit, MI over the last few centuries.
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Dec 16, 2022 02:24
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The Spanish had the mythical basajauns (male) and basanderes (female) who were hairy folk who lived in the deep woods and may have built the ancient megaliths and taught agriculture and ironworking to humans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basajaun It's pretty much a variation on the 'wild man of the woods' or 'woodwose' myths you get throughout England and Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_man
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Dec 16, 2022 02:44
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There's lot of weirdness behind Australia's Yowie, beyond just the gloss of "Australian Bigfoot." Though I guess it is like Bigfoot in that the indigenous myths are way more varied than "unknown hominid," going through ogres/demons/weird guys over the hill. One pseudoscientific idea is that the Yowie is a marsupial hominid which is fun. There are tons of frontier Australian newspaper accounts in the 1800s of weird poo poo that gets filtered into compilations nowadays. Author John Lemay has a good series of "Cowboys and Aliens/Dinosaurs" that reprints American accounts, with one volume on Aus/NZ - bear in mind he doesn't really analyze them at all and lots of old newspapers just made stuff up whole cloth - it's not even that Jonquil P. Bussyman was lying about seeing a UFO or a monster, it's that he never even existed in the first place. In the Aus/NZ volume he mentions the Zuiyo-maru carcass and calls the scientific explanation "the old basking shark canard," somewhat tongue in cheek, but still.
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Dec 16, 2022 03:51
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uber_stoat posted:https://twitter.com/fineanddanya/status/1603312903196532736?s=20&t=TMZZhoCGEXa7MrUZ4Z773w Obviously similar things exist in a lot of cultures but I really think we often undersell just how much the whole cryptid/UFO/conspiracy thing is a phenomena of North American and to a lesser extent British and other Anglophone culture. A friend of mine from Morocco was recently asking about what's going on with Trump hiding top secret documents in Mar a Lago and I made a joke about how one silver lining of the Trump presidency is that we at least know that the government isn't actually conspiring with aliens because he definitely would have casually mentioned that "Nobody gets along better with the aliens than me because they respect me so much," etc. That comment immediately derailed the conversation into "Why do you Americans obsess over UFOs and aliens so much? It's like you've got a UFO religion in your culture."
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Dec 16, 2022 22:17
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stereobreadsticks posted:Obviously similar things exist in a lot of cultures but I really think we often undersell just how much the whole cryptid/UFO/conspiracy thing is a phenomena of North American and to a lesser extent British and other Anglophone culture. A friend of mine from Morocco was recently asking about what's going on with Trump hiding top secret documents in Mar a Lago and I made a joke about how one silver lining of the Trump presidency is that we at least know that the government isn't actually conspiring with aliens because he definitely would have casually mentioned that "Nobody gets along better with the aliens than me because they respect me so much," etc. That comment immediately derailed the conversation into "Why do you Americans obsess over UFOs and aliens so much? It's like you've got a UFO religion in your culture." Lots of open country with nothing in it that wasn't originally ours and we haphazardly expanded into without looking at it too closely, lending a slight sense of Lynchian unease and fear that out there is something we as a culture have no long generational experience with, hiding just out of sight. Over time this mutated into having a more cosmic scale with the Space Age.
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Dec 16, 2022 22:22
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https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/1411671138355253256?s=20&t=j795666ZWa8q6sD_B1vMAA On that topic, here's a map of every UFO report from 1906 to 2014 which kind of backs up my opinion about all of this being an American cultural phenomena. By far the most reports are in the US, Canada, the UK, and Ireland. Reports in continental Europe seem to be heaviest in countries with the closest ties to the Anglophone world, with the Netherlands leading the pack and reports gradually fading out from there. Similarly, in Latin America it seems that the most reports are in Mexico and Puerto Rico with fewer reports the further you get from the US. And in the Middle East, Asia, and Africa there seem to be notable clusters in Israel, Japan, India, Malaysia, and South Africa, all countries with close cultural ties to either the US or UK and likely with similarly exagerrated exposure to American and British media. stereobreadsticks has a new favorite as of 23:50 on Dec 16, 2022 |
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Dec 16, 2022 23:46
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New Zealand has some surprisingly lit up parts on that map.
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Dec 17, 2022 00:09
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stereobreadsticks posted:https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/1411671138355253256?s=20&t=j795666ZWa8q6sD_B1vMAA That's a neat map. I knew things were really US-centric, but that really makes it pop out. I have no idea what aliens' fascination with the midwest is, though, I'm from there and it ain't that great.
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Dec 17, 2022 00:13
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I guess aliens are pretty racist. Greys? More like whites.
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Dec 17, 2022 00:15
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The_Doctor posted:New Zealand has some surprisingly lit up parts on that map. The NZDF recently declassified all their files on UFOs, so I suspect that probably skews the numbers a bit — lots more available data. As far as I know you can only access the records in hard copy, so you have to go into the National Archives to read them. I keep meaning to do that, I work just across the road from them and it seems like a great way to spend a few hours.
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Dec 17, 2022 00:32
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stereobreadsticks posted:https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/1411671138355253256?s=20&t=j795666ZWa8q6sD_B1vMAA LOL now compare that to the maps of reported bigfoot sightings: Snowglobe of Doom posted:Bigfoots have been reported in every US state and East Texas is a real hot spot. They've been holding bigfoot conferences/conventions in Texas for several decades now LOL LOL LOL that's amazing
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Dec 17, 2022 03:57
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Oh and here's the animated version of that UFO sightings timeline map: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL4H6saFyv4
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Dec 17, 2022 04:35
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Maybe the aliens just really like McDonald's.
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Dec 17, 2022 06:12
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They're after our sodium
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Dec 17, 2022 06:23
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Aliens feed on alienation obviously
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Dec 17, 2022 07:35
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stereobreadsticks posted:https://twitter.com/qikipedia/status/1411671138355253256?s=20&t=j795666ZWa8q6sD_B1vMAA Well I guess we know where the main X-COM base is.
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Dec 17, 2022 12:44
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I wish Scandinavia had some wacky cryptids that people were still hunting for in modern times. Where's my Discovery show about plucky Norwegians investigating a new troll sighting every week?
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Dec 17, 2022 12:56
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My uncles legit went out to hunt the östmark Bigfoot lol
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Dec 17, 2022 13:01
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PurpleXVI posted:I wish Scandinavia had some wacky cryptids that people were still hunting for in modern times. there's a new movie about trolls out, I assumed they were all over the place out there. Like squirrels.
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Dec 17, 2022 13:09
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Captain Hygiene posted:That's a neat map. I knew things were really US-centric, but that really makes it pop out. I have no idea what aliens' fascination with the midwest is, though, I'm from there and it ain't that great. Aliens, like all sentient life in the multi-verse, love a tater tot hotdish.
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Dec 17, 2022 16:40
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PurpleXVI posted:I wish Scandinavia had some wacky cryptids that people were still hunting for in modern times. I also wish Trollhunter was a documentary. I loved that movie when it came out.
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Dec 17, 2022 18:23
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Captain Hygiene posted:That's a neat map. I knew things were really US-centric, but that really makes it pop out. I have no idea what aliens' fascination with the midwest is, though, I'm from there and it ain't that great. You could some reasonable and plausible criticisms of the map: reporting and literature is very US-centric (or Western-centric). Cultural interpretations of UFO sighting could shape how (and whether) people report and phrase sightings. Population density will have an effect. Conversely, compare UK and Western Europe to the US and UFOs look like a very American idea.
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Dec 17, 2022 23:33
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nonathlon posted:You could some reasonable and plausible criticisms of the map: reporting and literature is very US-centric (or Western-centric). Cultural interpretations of UFO sighting could shape how (and whether) people report and phrase sightings. Population density will have an effect. The data is taken from NUFORC. The map shows not that the UFO is strictly cultural bound towards Anglo-US populations, but the inescapable truth that if you don't understand where your data is coming from then applying it will only lead you to false conclusions.
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Dec 18, 2022 00:15
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The animated timeline map shows that UFO sightings exploded across the US after the 1947 Roswell incident which was obviously a gigantic influence in putting the idea of UFOs into people's heads but I'd also be interested to know how all the other potential factors increased in the post-war period, eg: commercial air flights. From a quick googling the first commercial jet airliners (de Havilland DH.106 Comet) entered service in 1949
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Dec 18, 2022 06:01
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:The animated timeline map shows that UFO sightings exploded across the US after the 1947 Roswell incident which was obviously a gigantic influence in putting the idea of UFOs into people's heads but I'd also be interested to know how all the other potential factors increased in the post-war period, eg: commercial air flights. From a quick googling the first commercial jet airliners (de Havilland DH.106 Comet) entered service in 1949
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Dec 18, 2022 06:05
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Lord Hydronium posted:I believe that Roswell was actually pretty obscure at the time and only got hyped up later as the big canonical UFO event. The big thing in 1947 was the Kenneth Arnold sighting, which invented the term "flying saucer" and basically started the UFO craze. That's my recollection too. And didn't Arnolds sighting get changed or published such that it created the canonical idea of a UFO - i.e. what he actually reported is different to what the classic story now says I once knew someone doing a thesis on how popular culture shapes individual UFO reports and what people say / think they saw, e.g. greys, little green men, robots, benevolent Nordics. But it would have to be very difficult to pick those effects apart.
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Dec 18, 2022 10:31
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Weirdly enough there's a lot of parallels with the history and evolution of Santa Claus mythology. There'd been similar mythical character around the world and Saint Nicholas became the basis for a lot of the stories throughout Europe but Santa Claus was pretty much an Americanized version (based on Dutch immigrants' stories of Sint Nicolaas AKA Sinter Klaas which eventually got anglicized to Santa Claus) and then various US authors and newspaper illustrators fleshed out the story with details like the reindeer and the workshop at the North Pole and the elves and then Coca Cola used that imagery in an ad campaign and pretty much cemented the modern idea of Santa into people's heads. And then cultural imperialism spread the US Santa Claus back to the rest of the globe.
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Dec 18, 2022 10:53
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PurpleXVI posted:I wish Scandinavia had some wacky cryptids that people were still hunting for in modern times. There was a documentary about a crew trying to find the Seljord Sea Monster, but it evolved into a documentary about how lovely the leader was and that everyone hated him. Snowglobe of Doom posted:Weirdly enough there's a lot of parallels with the history and evolution of Santa Claus mythology. There'd been similar mythical character around the world and Saint Nicholas became the basis for a lot of the stories throughout Europe but Santa Claus was pretty much an Americanized version (based on Dutch immigrants' stories of Sint Nicolaas AKA Sinter Klaas which eventually got anglicized to Santa Claus) and then various US authors and newspaper illustrators fleshed out the story with details like the reindeer and the workshop at the North Pole and the elves and then Coca Cola used that imagery in an ad campaign and pretty much cemented the modern idea of Santa into people's heads. Alhazred has a new favorite as of 12:41 on Dec 18, 2022 |
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Dec 18, 2022 12:34
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nonathlon posted:That's my recollection too. And didn't Arnolds sighting get changed or published such that it created the canonical idea of a UFO - i.e. what he actually reported is different to what the classic story now says Arnold's craft were crescent shaped and moved "like skipping saucers" which got garbled into flying saucers
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Dec 18, 2022 15:26
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Lord Hydronium posted:I believe that Roswell was actually pretty obscure at the time and only got hyped up later as the big canonical UFO event. The big thing in 1947 was the Kenneth Arnold sighting, which invented the term "flying saucer" and basically started the UFO craze. When I was doing research in the Betty & Barney Hill papers over the summer, I actually came across an account of Roswell from a 1967 UFO magazine, which really surprised me. It was really brief, acknowledged it as mistaken identity for a balloon, and located it at Fort Worth. It was really interesting to see an example of how (little) Roswell lingered even in the UFO field prior to it getting revived in 1978.
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Dec 18, 2022 15:33
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Dr. Jerrold Coe posted:Arnold's craft were crescent shaped and moved "like skipping saucers" which got garbled into flying saucers That's it. I think someone also did calculations on what Arnold judged to be the size and distance of the objects and found they were incompatible. He couldn't have seen something of that size at that distance. Which is not to say that he was dishonest but that pilots aren't foolproof observers. Roswell, and the English version in Rendlesham, are frustrating in that there's so little to them and they've been thoroughly debunked but fans keep coming back to them and endlessly resucitate the cases. Hesdalen valley is interesting, the Cash-Landrum incident is interesting. But instead they conjure up hazy conspiracies and unprovable testimony to bolster creaky cases.
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Dec 18, 2022 17:28
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I've always thought the theory that Kenneth Arnold saw a test flight of flying wing prototypes made a lot of sense. https://gritcitymag.com/2019/10/how-tacoma-gave-the-world-the-flying-saucer/
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Dec 19, 2022 02:46
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Doesn't really match his eyewitness account in how they moved or how fast he claimed they were moving. And when has anyone ever built an entire squadron of prototype aircraft at once? That's not how experimental aircraft testing has ever worked and it would be a terrible and illogical idea from a practical standpoint. Going through and reading his Fate magazine story and the other version in his book, it seems super obvious to me based on his description that he just saw a flock of high-altitude swans or geese that he thought were a lot father away and moving a lot faster than he immediately assumed. In his earliest interviews he even recognized that the formation resembled birds and the skipping reads a whole lot like flapping wings to me. Maybe they were distorted by thermals or the glass of his cockpit or the angle of the sun bouncing off of them or something. But like most of this stuff, the real answer is probably very mundane.
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Dec 19, 2022 03:51
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feedmyleg posted:Doesn't really match his eyewitness account in how they moved or how fast he claimed they were moving. And when has anyone ever built an entire squadron of prototype aircraft at once? That's not how experimental aircraft testing has ever worked and it would be a terrible and illogical idea from a practical standpoint. A good post, thanks for checking the original Fate story when I was too lazy
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Dec 19, 2022 03:59
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For my job, I've spent a lot of time in a plane actively observing for other aircraft and obstacles, and there's no way on earth I'd be able to reliably estimate sizes and distances for things even when I know the ground truth based on other available information. Especially so for things in the sky without any good frame of reference to judge from, but even for things on the ground sometimes. I can easily believe his sighting was based on a mistake like that. Details on size and speed that folks report for sightings from the ground also seem super questionable, it's tough enough to estimate anything while planewatching on the ground at an airport, to say nothing of just looking up into the sky from some other random location. And at night? Don't be silly.
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Dec 19, 2022 04:09
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Yeah the Corridor Crew guys debunked a bunch of the recent Pentagon UFO videos and they decided that one was probably a slow moving bird viewed from a fast moving plane, but the motion parallax effect made it look like the "UFO" was moving super fast https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHDlfIaBEqw&t=251s
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Dec 19, 2022 06:44
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It's two half bird shaped UFOs real close
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Dec 19, 2022 07:19
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Is there any source that’s a good comprehensive look at the Phantom Time/New Chronology/Tartaria conspiracy?
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Dec 19, 2022 15:09
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Chairman Capone posted:Is there any source that’s a good comprehensive look at the Phantom Time/New Chronology/Tartaria conspiracy? Unfortunately, not to my knowledge, I've mostly just read bits here and there about both and don't have a good single comprehensive source to point you too, but you can find plenty of stuff about both that's mostly skeptical/debunking just by Googling. I can tell you, though, that Phantom Time and New Chronology are actually two completely different crank pseudohistorical conspiracy theories and that "Tartaria" is connected to the latter but is also kind of its own thing these days; Phantom Time is the relatively more "plausible" one of the two; it asserts that the Pope and Holy Roman Emperor fabricated about 300 years of history between the 7th and 10th centuries to legitimize themselves. It's not true in any sense, but it's a little more self-consistent and a little less batshit than the New Chronology, which is the Russian nationalist conspiracy theory created by Fomenko (and popularized by Kasparov) that asserts that pretty much the entirety of history before 800-1000 AD is fictional and also "the Russian Horde" was the greatest empire in the history of the world.
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Dec 19, 2022 19:06
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