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Will the floor be covered in concrete? Thats what they did and then the polished it, so its as protected as a few inches of concrete can be. im sure you can use a thermal camera after to find the right spot to put the bottom of the staircase so you don't end up on a pipe.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:23
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blindjoe posted:Will the floor be covered in concrete? Thats what they did and then the polished it, so its as protected as a few inches of concrete can be. Yeah a concrete screed over. Then tiles and/or timber. I shouldnt really have a staircase as it supposed to be a bungalow but I'm already sneaking upstairs. In theory I know exactly where the pipes are so shouldnt be an issue.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:27
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I just read this whole thread instead of working for several hours. I like your thread NJAN99, thank you for sharing your quick 6 month build.
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Dec 21, 2022 01:32
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Interesting that you would do timber over the heated floors, the bare polished concrete did a good job of feeling warm when you walked on it, does wood floors let much heat through? I have 3/4" maple on our floors, and it does a great job of insulating from feeling cold. Tiles would be fine, it would transmit the heat without issue.
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Dec 21, 2022 02:12
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How do you know all these lines will work? Are they multiple systems / runs are all tied into the same place? Is the break room going to get heated floors?
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Dec 21, 2022 05:02
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Sorry I realise I used rhetorical you, something which I do a lot. I do wish they hadn't run any underfloor pipe under the actual kitchen benches in our house, the insides of the drawers get warmer and onions for instance never last long in there. As someone already mentioned.
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Dec 21, 2022 05:33
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insulate and refrigerate your drawers and pantry, duh
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Dec 21, 2022 11:07
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everdave posted:How do you know all these lines will work? Are they multiple systems / runs are all tied into the same place? Is the break room going to get heated floors? not sure about the question. But the 12 zone manifold has 12 unbroken (no joins) 100m pipes looped between it, eventually with actuators on each loop so it can determine which loops need water (which rooms are cold). Then a pump and stuff connected between the two banks of the manifold to complete each loop. I'm not describing it very well. I'll find a diagram. So its all one system that pumps water through whatever loops are open (as their local thermostat or whatever control system has requested heat). And as part of the system its pumping that used hot water back to the heat store to be replenished by newly heated water from the heat store. In summer its theoretically going to switch round and do this with chilled water. In terms of them working there shouldnt be an opportunity for them to fail with no joints below the slab. But in an attempt to make sure I need to pressure test the whole lot first. Which involves attaching a pressure gauge, pumping in mains water up to about 3 bar on each loop sequentially until the whole lot is filled and pressurised. Then leave it overnight and make sure theres no pressure drop. It stays pressurised for the screed pour to make sure nothing gets squished.  So theres the mains hose (yellow) on one end and a drain hose connected to the other for if I need to releave pressure or whatever. And the pressure gauge bottom left. Without the pump connection attached between the banks of the manifold the only way to fill between is to open corresponding valves to open a heating loop.  So one by one open top and bottom valves and turn on mains water to fill. Except it all goes wrong obviously and I piss water all over the place several times.  Mains pressure blew the hose off the connection so put a cable tie on it to try and hold it on.  Works.  All the zones filled. If it keeps this pressure for a few hours or overnight then should be good. The breakroom is not part of the system. Although I did inherit a chimenea with the land so can plug that in and burn through some of my logs. For all the workers I have. NotJustANumber99 fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Dec 21, 2022 |
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Dec 21, 2022 23:07
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Hydroponics system going into your plant room looking mighty fine
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Dec 22, 2022 06:36
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That plant room floor is going to be hot enough to cook an egg. Are you using in floor thermometers or room stats?
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Dec 22, 2022 13:27
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I dunno what he uses but I prefer the setup my house has, no internal sensors, just an external sensor. An adjustable heating curve tied to outdoor temps decides how warm water to send into the floor. Is it -20 outside then send water out that's 26C, for instance. That way I don't get a bunch of annoying feedback loops like the heating system slows down because I am supplementing it with firewood and the indoor temps rising. Such interference can be a PITA when you use the internal temperature and have more than one heating system in your house.
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Dec 22, 2022 13:32
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What happens if one of them leaks, do you just rip the floor up?
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Dec 22, 2022 13:35
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You sob gently and then cry more fully.
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Dec 22, 2022 13:41
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That's when you realize the superiority of radiators. I assume these lines will be covered in concrete too. So the whole floor will be a big thermal mass.
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Dec 22, 2022 14:06
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Bobby Deluxe posted:What happens if one of them leaks, do you just rip the floor up? They’re less likely to leak because they’re each one continuous pipe from the manifold and back again. No underground connections to worry about.
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Dec 22, 2022 14:26
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His Divine Shadow posted:That's when you realize the superiority of radiators. Its all going to be covered in a big slab of screed concrete yeah. One big radiator. CancerCakes posted:That plant room floor is going to be hot enough to cook an egg. Both. I'm not familiar with slab sensors but going to put them in anyway and figure out later how exactly to control everything. Better to have them and not use them than always be wishing I had them. The slab sensors are stupid expensive for what they are so I'm just going to buy the components and make my own. From looking at googles and forums people say to just run them in some spare underfloor heating pipe. Partly because they fail and you'll want a way to pull them out and replace them. And seeing as I've made them myself presumably they're even more likely to fail and need to be replaced by the expensive ones. I'll cap off and tape the ends before screeding.  I figure a sensor per room or zone whichever is more suited in each instance. So for the smaller rooms I can wallchase down from the attic space and then out a little into the slab allowing them to be pushed/pulled from above.   Depending on the room layout, whether I run it under or around the heating pipes.  This leaves the vaulted space with its 3 or 4 zones and no attic space above to run down from. So the answer seems to be the kitchen island that I'm already running data and power to. I'll have the sensors poke up here, collect them all and send over the data connection back to server cabinet in attic/plant room which ever is better. The first two nearby zones are easy enough but the two further away ones I can't reliably push the sensor down without it jamming up. So solution. Do a loop with a pull chord in. All these run on top of the heating pipes and will get encased in the screed.   Bobby Deluxe posted:What happens if one of them leaks, do you just rip the floor up? Nothing can go wrong bobby.
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Dec 22, 2022 23:00
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Nothing can go wrong bobby. Famous first words.
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Dec 23, 2022 19:51
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dangit bobby,
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Dec 23, 2022 20:04
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Happy christmas everyone. I will not be pouring the screed myself! This is a bit of an odd decision as I have done this before so you'd think I might as well do this myself. But I still wasn't sure what was going on. Last time my dad and I did it ourselves, a relatively smaller area and we mixed the whole lot ourselves really dry in an electric mixer and laid it ourselves gradually in like probably 4 goes. This time I kind of thought just give it to someone else, their quote seemed like not so much money and they'll be pros (lol) and get it done however. With hindsight, I'm sure you've already guessed, I regret this decision. Not hugely just a bit. Waste of probably 2k and still work to do to get it right so the time savings are kind of also diminished, although still exist. Right so first issue, I wanted them to do all the levels. But at the last minute I'm not confident about them doing that. I'm going to mark up the levels myself as there is some variation and with the bifolds already fitted we absolutely have to fit under the reveal by at minimum 15mm to get floor tiles laid and fit under the bifold doors. so lasers.  Wasn't really sure what they wanted but decided to set a line all around the house, totally level (to the best of my abilities) that fits all my door threshold requirements but a metre higher so they can measure down from that. So having identified the riskiest high point under the bifolds, I'll then transfer that around. Absolute Max Screed + 1 metre.   Happy enough with that, I'm still a little unsure how this is going to work. OK so final phone call and yeah its a really dry screed delivered and dropped by the front door OK. Wish I had fully understood this earlier.  So tarp out, lol far too small. Usual issues getting truck in, not a big deal now. Then wait for the actual screeders to turn up...   They do and immediately want to leave to find somewhere that sells fags. OK whatever I'm paying fixed price but ffs. So when we get going one lad shovels, one wheelbarrows/does gently caress all and one does the screeding.  It is hard, back breaking(ish) work I know.  They get on pretty well. I've also blocked out certain bits I don't want them doing. The showers are going to be inset into the floor wetroom showers with a slope so I'll do that myself later.  Theyre making these day joints into each room but I'm a bit dubious about how much screed we're getting through as I know I only have two days labour on this and well, they didnt arrive early.  I get them to show me the plans they have been given that I havent seen and they arent following about what order to do things in as today is supposed to be a bigger pour than tomorrow. end of the first day (like 3pm) so 4 hours after they started. And yeah whats done looks pretty good but you can't get in there and really look as can't walk on it yet.  But theres no way this is working. They've laid less than half the floor and the plan says that tomorrow's screed load is smaller than todays. I mention all this to them and say its really important. They assure me it will get fed back and don't worry. Theres always one young lad. Who'se actually quite old and got 5 kids and knows eveything and needs to tell me about it. But hasnt charged his stereo or phone so I have to lend him mine. Anyway. second day. Up early for the truck and yeah its got almost twice as much screed as the previous day, OK good.   Lads turn up. smoke.  It's all going pretty well though. I hate getting involved and float about a bit but leave them to it checking everyone is happy from time to time. Young lad is loving annoying me now. I'm still carefully stepping over my underfloor heating pipes which he notices so makes a point of ramming into them with a wheelbarrow and saying how I don't need to worry. Like? wtf. If I were to do this again maybe I would just throw people offsite. But hes just kind of a cowboy and tis too late I'm already paying for that. But like why don't you realise this is my house and maybe loving just i dunno.... read the room a little?  Like you can see there. The pipes getting kicked out of place and I've gone round and dragged things back as I've noticed them but its really just unnecessary. Like just have the slightest care and attention. I didn't meticulously lay these out according to my expensive and exact plan just for some clod hooved fuckwit to come in and blast them all out of place because...? I dunno even why you are doing that? God knows what all the bits I haven't seen ended up like. We do get the plant room done too which I had kind of written off, even though I'd included it just because I'd had enough.   So its all screeded!  And theres poo poo loads left... Well I dunno why you should listen to me you lot are the professionals I'm not paying for it. I, of course, pay for it. I was going to quickly spread it around with the digger. But it breaks down and won't move. So do it by hand to fill in bits of the drive. This will all be futile and for nothing.  But... FLOOR! pretty pleased I guess? despite my tone here. I come back in a few days later to run a level across bits of it and check things out. Its pretty mediocre  Its supposed to obtain SR2 which is like 5mm over 2metres or something. Whatever maybe it does. From the bits I measure I don't see how. Whats most important though is the high point under one corner of the bifold where I absolutely need as much depth as I can get. We had a lot of discussions before they came to site about it. Also they did actaully stop and come to talk to me and say they reckoned they couldnt get 15mm under the level I needed, maybe only 13 or 14. I OKed it. Guess where that shot of the level is from? Yeah it literally slopes up at that point. Like the point I am definitely going to check. I can try and ground it back down I guess, not the end of the world. But as I look around at the perimeter of the rooms, just anywhere where a bit of care and attention could have been deployed to achieve a decent job. It hasnt.  Bits of edge insulation and stuff dragged away and screed behind it and so on, I can deal with it all but its just a lovely messy job that had I done it myself would have taken longer but been done to a higher standard. Standard disappointment really. merry loving xmas NotJustANumber99 fucked around with this message at 02:42 on Dec 31, 2022 |
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Dec 31, 2022 02:35
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I am beginning to think that other people are a bad idea.
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Dec 31, 2022 02:46
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Standard disappointment really. 
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Dec 31, 2022 08:30
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This was the lol I come into the thread for. The rest was genuinely lovely, sorry about the screeding 99
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Dec 31, 2022 09:47
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The folks who did the ground floor screed on mine used a pumped liquid screed, and were done in a couple hours. Levels better too. Downsides; you need better prep than my builders did (they were about as diligent as yours) and you can’t walk on it for 3 days. It also needs the top sanding off afterwards before being tiled, and obviously dumps a lot of moisture into the property that you then need to manage/extract. Seeing your dry screed go in I’d probably still go liquid pour again if I had to do it again, but prep the area myself.
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Dec 31, 2022 11:07
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I've never even heard of dry screed before and was like WTF?
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Dec 31, 2022 12:14
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His Divine Shadow posted:I've never even heard of dry screed before and was like WTF? Have you not been reading the thread or what
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Dec 31, 2022 16:38
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fridge corn posted:Have you not been reading the thread or what Not that closely I guess, it's been used before?
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Dec 31, 2022 18:22
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It can be deadly Assassin's Screed
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Dec 31, 2022 18:45
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His Divine Shadow posted:Not that closely I guess, it's been used before? I think that was more of a, "this thread is only comprised of wtf and weird building techniques unseen before by our mostly american eyes" Thanks for the floor heating journey OP 
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Dec 31, 2022 18:58
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heck I'm not even american
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Dec 31, 2022 21:05
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No actually it was a joke about 99s posting being a dry screed but nvm
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Dec 31, 2022 21:05
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fridge corn posted:No actually it was a joke about 99s posting being a dry screed but nvm I got it! 99 my condolences on the concrete grinding in your future. When I had to do that on some excess self levelling concrete it was the dustiest experience of my life.
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Dec 31, 2022 22:12
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Oh I've had some dusty experiences, lol my love life this year
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Dec 31, 2022 23:10
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I'm generally pretty dulled to anything I read online but the guy just ramming the wheelbarrow over the floor heating pipes raised my dander a bit. (why is it this, of all things?) I guess because I see people being lazy and lovely regularly and it bugs me there too. But it's like god drat, come on, there was obviously a lot of work put into making those even to spread heat properly and ensure that nothing would leak etc.
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Jan 1, 2023 00:03
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aniviron posted:I'm generally pretty dulled to anything I read online but the guy just ramming the wheelbarrow over the floor heating pipes raised my dander a bit. (why is it this, of all things?) I guess because I see people being lazy and lovely regularly and it bugs me there too. But it's like god drat, come on, there was obviously a lot of work put into making those even to spread heat properly and ensure that nothing would leak etc. Same tbh. I think it's cause most people have dealt with ignorant tradies throwing their weight around at some point
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Jan 1, 2023 00:05
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This is why, even though you may not be a professional, if you are capable and have the time you do your own work. This is the level I've come to expect of hired out work unless you are paying a premium and supervision every last second and are able to kill a job and tell people to gently caress off/make them fix their poo poo. Most people can't do that on their one project where they're trying to build their own house. This entire thread is a study in getting hosed by not being in a position to say "hell no" starting with the ridiculous foundation.
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Jan 1, 2023 00:08
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I don't know jack about building stuff so I'm often not sure what's wrong with crappy construction until someone spells it out for me but I've really enjoyed this thread. My favorite part was that foundation. I really love that you're building a normal house on a thousand deep pylons strong enough to hold up a skyscraper, presumably because some bureaucrat somewhere read something wrong. My second favorite part was the contractually obligated luxury break room they never used. Again someone thinks you're building a skyscraper in this field. It's not really their fault though, just look at the foundation you're making! This shithead intentionally ramming your meticulously laid out heating pipes right in front of you to make a dumb point about their toughness, I guess, is my third favorite part. The sheer balls on that guy, just pointlessly antagonizing the dude paying him for no benefit at all. Honorable mention for the bricks that are weak as styrofoam. I don't know anything about them, but I imagine someone just kool-aid manning through your wall built on an indestructible foundation.
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Jan 4, 2023 20:35
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Happy new year. So floor mostly done. Havent fixed any of the issues, deal with as and when.  Time now to sort out the roof insulation to move towards getting plasterboard in and like I dunno finish building a house. Have fallen out with builders merchant we have been using so switch to another one and have to start the whole quote/whinge/get actual price bullshit dance all over again. And the new guys don't want to drive down the drive. So pretty much unloading everything at the roadside from now on. Which meh as long as theyre happy to wait for me. So heres everything I think we need in the ceiling/roof, unloaded from truck at the road and diggered round.  Digger round to the bifolds all the 100mm pir thats due to go in the lofted ceiling there so we can unload it by hand in through the bifolds. Best to get this undercover sharpish I reckon.  So I've got 100mm PIR for in between rafters in lounge. 70mm PIR for entire loft space down to eaves to keep an insulated envelope around everything in that wing, then 50mm PIR to go slung under the rafters in the lounge. Then mineral wool at 150mm for between loft and downstairs bedrooms and 200mm to be doubled up to 400mm everywhere else with a flat ceiling but no PIR loft above. All gets stacked inside somewhere    I am anticipating my planning to be dogshit and having to move all this several time before I install it. So to install the insulation in the vaulted area I need to get up there and the scaffolding is a ballache. I had a temporary floor here before but I have since built a roof out of it so I've also ordered a few more pieces of timber to rebuilt a temporary 2 bay floor between the oaks. I'll floor it with the same chipboard floor pieces I used previously and just have to move it up every now and again. Hopefully I can also keep it for when the plasterers come in if theyre prepared to work of it. Basically I won't use a plasterer that isnt lol.  OK so in the vaulted area I'm putting 100mm PIR inbetween the 150mm rafters flush to their underside so I need to go around everywhere and install little knobs of batten to shove these up against. the blue bits  Then its try and find the best, most efficient, least rubbish way to fit the PIR insulation in. The internet experts on youtube talk about like an expanding tape thingy that you stick all around the insulation but its expensive as gently caress and you can't tell me what to do so I'll just play it by ear and hack away at poo poo until it fits  So as you can maybe tell the batten spacers are placed at 1200mm centres to allow the insulation to join on them. I hoped to do it at 2400mm full lengths but it wasn't realistic with all the oak and stuff I had to fit in around   And none of my rafter spacing is consistent enough so everything has to be cut to fit the particular gap and wrestled in up or downwards depending on if theyre out upwards or downwards  Nice cramming at peak. Oh and also all the oaks that have sat outside on the unfinished building all winter are stained and weathered to gently caress so I need to sand them as I go before fitting the insulation that means I can't get at them to tidy them up.  Think you can tell the difference. Annoying and a lot of work but theyll look good again in the end  And so... yeah 
NotJustANumber99 fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jan 14, 2023 |
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Jan 13, 2023 23:57
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Nice. Can tell it's a lot of work.
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Jan 14, 2023 05:06
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We found our PIR board was durable enough to live outside for a few months. We bought it all in one go and the builders heaped it up to make their brew shack. Like you I used the hack-and-swear technique to achieve an interference fit. Where I was too enthusiastic I used offcuts to wedge a panel in place and then rammed the nozzle of a spray foam can into the gap and gunged it. Cutting it with one of the broader snap-blade knives was a lot easier than the recommended technique of a wood saw because it creates way less evil dust and you can scallop it out nicely where there's a bolt in the way or whatever. Are you going to do vapour membrane then battens to create a service void?
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Jan 17, 2023 00:29
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The insulation could probably have lived outside but its the winter and itll end up wet and minging. Not much effort to bring it inside on the day. I have tried to use spray foam on the worst gaps but to be honest there isn't that much need for it. Makes a right mess. I never really tried knifing and snapping the board. Sawing it worked fine but I think I am probably dead now from all the dust. Honestly have felt like poo poo since. I spoke to the building control lad and he assures me that simply taping all the board with foil tape is in itself a vapour control layer. I've used plastic sheets previously but thats a bit of a ballache especially with all the timber intrusions through the envelope. I'm not sure its any cheaper though. Probably spent 200quid on silver foil tape at this point. In the vaulted area there is a second layer of 50mm PIR that I havent installed yet underneath the rafters. This allows me a 50mm deep space to run metal trunking the length of the vaulted room to the loft spaces at either end. I'll run power and data through this space slung under the rafters and encapsulated by the plasterboard. At a few points along this run plastic conduit will branch off to take power down to the floor through wall chases and up or down as needed to lighting.  In the other half of the building there is a flat ceiling downstairs and a loft (attic?) above. Its an extra 45m2 of floorspace although with limited headroom obviously. Its 2m high in the middle. This is a bungalow as far as the authorities are concerned but equally gently caress them. It'll be storage to start with but designed to be able to become a quite large space for a home office/bedrooms. But also what it gives us is a triangular void space down either side to run services in. So I'll use larger 100mm metal trunking to carry all the power down here, 50mm trays for data and all the 80mm HVAC flexible plastic pipes will also run down here to provide each room with a supply and extract air vent on opposing sides of the room. Also also running the water down one of these spaces to drop into the bathrooms. So thats a cold, a hot and a hot return pipe to allow the system to detect temp drops and cycle the hot water round to make sure theres on demand hot water from the plant room heat store which is also accessible fromt he triangular void space.  I'll provide a pair of access hatches somewhere to gain access to those crawl spaces for simple, easy maintenance. 
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Jan 17, 2023 22:47
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