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who gives a poo poo. anyway the protagonist from a hero past the 25th is a pretty good example of a dip poo poo isekai character that grows, and that one is explicitly a love letter to manga and LNs.
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Dec 23, 2022 03:16
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 01:37 |
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Y'know, I'm not sure this thread should be staking a claim on demanding respect to effort posts from people with insight into the medium. Not sure why. Maybe it'll come to me.
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Dec 23, 2022 03:20
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I agree, let’s make this conversation about you, and maybe also Wildbow for some reason
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Dec 23, 2022 04:03
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Well, this is the one place that might appreciate the irony that I edit and localise isekai manga these days, yes.
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Dec 23, 2022 04:16
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what are people even arguing about at this point
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Dec 23, 2022 04:21
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Patrick Spens posted:Jakal Among Snakes really showcases the problem with Smart Protagonists. Because often the author isn't smart enough to have the MC run mental laps around actual people, so you just get an average dude out thinking the dumbest people alive.
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Dec 23, 2022 04:25
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:Well, this is the one place that might appreciate the irony that I edit and localise isekai manga these days, yes. I mean I wouldn’t exactly be surprised to find out you’re good at it, and it also isn’t a shocker to hear you’re working in a field where (you probably think) 99% of the works are trash. Worked on anything good lately?
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Dec 23, 2022 04:28
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My post wasn't meant as a criticism. I didn't think restating things Elaine (the BtDEM MC) said about herself would be taken that way. Sorry if I touched a nerve.
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Dec 23, 2022 05:04
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Sylvian Wastes posted:I think the author cleverly gave himself an out for a smart protagonist with the 'not-skyrim wiki editor' MC. The thing is that he's not just a wiki editor with extremely detailed knowledge of the game world, but he's also an extremely smooth talker who is generally able to get his way through sheer confidence, and he is clever enough to put together very complicated plans that go off without a hitch.
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Dec 23, 2022 05:37
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I really enjoy Only Villains Do That. That is all, you can go back to arguing about competence in fiction now.
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Dec 23, 2022 08:16
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Wittgen posted:Ar'Kendrythist continues to be the answer. Erik messes up, but he generally makes good choices and he adjusts to new information while maintaining his moral compass. I couldn’t get past the first chapter Erik was so unlikable. Not like, a poo poo head type unlikable but just profoundly unfunny in the way socially inept people are who try to be funny are unfunny.
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Dec 23, 2022 08:26
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Its Rinaldo posted:I couldn’t get past the first chapter Erik was so unlikable. Not like, a poo poo head type unlikable but just profoundly unfunny in the way socially inept people are who try to be funny are unfunny. He's a dad worried crazy over his daughter, and they both got dumped into a fantasy world. He eventually relaxes quite a bit when things settle down, but he's never really funny.
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Dec 23, 2022 08:30
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He's just not a funny guy. some of the other characters are hilarious so its not the author.
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Dec 23, 2022 08:46
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Selkie Myth posted:And yes, early BTDEM Elaine IS annoying. She's too cocky and sure of herself without anything to back it up... sound like any other teenagers you know? Not to put too fine a point on it, but uh no. Not to the point where it excuses when they would robotically go up to a woman having a breakdown from her (sexual?)assault That doesn't have anything to do with ego. Or many of the other decisions she makes either at 8 or 14. None of which are really satisfactory for me in any of your three points. I will drop it there as you wrote this some time ago and have had answers to criticisms from then so I'm not going to ask you to go through the tedium of relitigating that stuff. Just, I was confused on how I was supposed to interpret Elaine as a character as she was all over the place in that first arc when she was a kid then does the same things when it jumped to her being fourteen and she is what in her mid/late thirties chronologically by then? Kalas posted:He's a dad worried crazy over his daughter, and they both got dumped into a fantasy world. He eventually relaxes quite a bit when things settle down, but he's never really funny. I'm sure he does, but man I don't wanna go on that ride till he does.
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Dec 23, 2022 08:58
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I just saw a new way to build an isekai style endless title:quote:Salvos: Hellprinces (Yes Hellprinces is correct, please stop DMing me to change it to Hellprincess)
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Dec 23, 2022 09:36
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He is too good.
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Dec 23, 2022 11:20
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A big flaming stink posted:what are people even arguing about at this point I'm genuinely trying to figure that out but please, whatever it is, everyone stop Also, yes, "meet effort with effort" IS a posting rule in this forum
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Dec 23, 2022 17:15
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I don’t like MelasD as an author at all but I do think they are good for the community— always giving shout outs, contributing to community spaces, being funny, etc. Seems like a nice guy.
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Dec 24, 2022 04:17
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nothing fills me with more dread that the concept of a web serial community
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Dec 24, 2022 04:18
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I have bad news about what this thread is
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Dec 24, 2022 04:18
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nrook posted:I have bad news about what this thread is a meticulous list of everything Larry Parrish hates?
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Dec 24, 2022 04:56
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No that's the POE thread
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Dec 24, 2022 05:27
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i like plenty of serials although for some reason this thread seems to talk about the ones i think suck a lot. and i definitely do not like any of the ones that are.... idk, hoping for clicks from insane people who actually like stat sheets or whatever. you know what I mean. casting a wide net and the blurb lists genres like it's a premium sandwich at a deli
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Dec 24, 2022 09:03
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nrook posted:I don’t like MelasD as an author at all but I do think they are good for the community— always giving shout outs, contributing to community spaces, being funny, etc. Seems like a nice guy. I'm friends with him from posting in TWI discord, absolutely a great guy
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Dec 24, 2022 10:57
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Peachfart posted:I never really liked Elaine in BtDEM, and eventually dropped it, but the story is well written and I think the author deserves every dollar she has gotten from it Yeah, I'm pretty much in the same camp. I'm glad that BtDEM is doing well, even if I had to bail pretty early on. There's been some really interesting discussion about some of the ideas it plays with, and I like reading about the work even if I find it too frustrating to engage with it directly. Patrick Spens posted:Jakal Among Snakes really showcases the problem with Smart Protagonists. Because often the author isn't smart enough to have the MC run mental laps around actual people, so you just get an average dude out thinking the dumbest people alive. The informed attribute problem definitely hits pretty hard in Jackal Among Snakes. I am deeply skeptical that the obsessive elder scrolls wiki editor who got slurped into another world is an incredible master-haggler. There's a lot of stuff he does off-camera that feels pretty implausible if he has to actually talk to people instead of picking stuff off a dialog tree. Definitely enjoyed the ride, but it's kinda difficult to view him as a character instead of a walking plot device and excuse for the author to just write a bunch of neat fantasy stuff without having to do the work building it up ahead of time. On the other hand, I'm willing to roll with that because there is a lot of genuinely neat stuff to see, and the writer's passion for these kinds of games/worlds definitely shines through. I'm having a decent time because they seem to be having a good time also, even if I'd probably like it much more with some heavy editing work. Larry Parrish posted:i like plenty of serials although for some reason this thread seems to talk about the ones i think suck a lot. and i definitely do not like any of the ones that are.... idk, hoping for clicks from insane people who actually like stat sheets or whatever. you know what I mean. casting a wide net and the blurb lists genres like it's a premium sandwich at a deli Maybe you should post more about the stuff you like, and why you think it is cool? I always welcome the chance to engage with discussion of something new or that hasn't been getting a ton of attention.
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Dec 24, 2022 20:36
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With Jackal, one draw is that the author constantly caused me to reminiscence about the experiences I had when I was going through Skyrim or The Witcher 3 as I read, and I thoroughly enjoyed that. The gimmick dungeons, the 'meatshield' AI companion. Traversing the entire map on foot to grab everything needed for a quest because you don't have the waypoints. Fun easter eggs like(spoiler for Jackal among Snakes) having a 'golden snitch' creature behind a hidden wall in a dungeon. Thats why I like it so much.
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Dec 24, 2022 23:00
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I think a cool twist on something like Jackal Among Snakes would be for the protagonist’s extreme competence to be the result of them still unconsciously interacting with the world as if it were a game and as a result automatically getting the same level of proficiency that a player character would have. Then, when they try to do something off script, like trying to say something that wouldn’t be in the game’s dialogue tree, that proficiency would suddenly leave them, and the further they alter the course of the world the less automatic proficiency they would get, since the game would no longer be covering those situations.
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Dec 25, 2022 00:19
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blastron posted:I think a cool twist on something like Jackal Among Snakes would be for the protagonist’s extreme competence to be the result of them still unconsciously interacting with the world as if it were a game and as a result automatically getting the same level of proficiency that a player character would have. Then, when they try to do something off script, like trying to say something that wouldn’t be in the game’s dialogue tree, that proficiency would suddenly leave them, and the further they alter the course of the world the less automatic proficiency they would get, since the game would no longer be covering those situations. you could amp this with a bit of a horror angle: following the script gradually turns one into an NPC following the script grants power, but like, the big bad from the protagonist's idea of the game was once sucked into their own game world, where they followed the script and so forth and now they are only what the game world wants them to be, unable to break the script at all edit: also if you're already playing into the "going off script" gimmick, you could have a field day with areas that are supposed to be out of bounds in the game world proper. I feel like somebody's surely done that but I don't read enough Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 00:36
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Practical Guide to Evil and Worth The Candle both explore settings where narrative is a real and dangerous force, but I don't think either quite hits the angle Lunatic Sledge is considering here... there are plenty of fantasy stories about fighting prophecy/predestination, but the most fun thing I can think of offhand is probably Dark Lord of Derkholm, which is not a web serial EDIT: Prophecy Approved Companion is doing some very cool stuff with the game world struggling against the script
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Dec 25, 2022 00:58
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agree/disagree Beetlejuice the cartoon, as a show predominantly about a normal girl engaging with another world, is isekai Beetlejuice the movie, as a film predominantly about normal people adapting to a bizarre new life in what is mostly their normal world (while featuring, but not focusing on, another world) is not isekai I'm assuming in both cases we agree that Beetlejuice is not himself the protagonist of Beetlejuice but I might be assuming too much
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Dec 25, 2022 01:07
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Lunatic Sledge posted:you could amp this with a bit of a horror angle: following the script gradually turns one into an NPC prophecy approved companion basically explicitly operates on Zelda logic and Skyrim physics which is extremely funny.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:07
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Larry Parrish posted:prophecy approved companion basically explicitly operates on Zelda logic and Skyrim physics which is extremely funny. zelda puzzle logic, skyrim physics, and bioware narrative
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Dec 25, 2022 01:15
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i think as far as the explicitly in a game world stories go it's better when they lean into it and make it super stupid. like in prophecy approved companion there's a bit where they skip what is basically the standard bethesda thieves guild quest by the hero walking into a guard and making him slide out of the way mysteriously. much better than stat sheets and a bunch of words about how life is so cruel that the only option for anyone is to farm gold in VR WoW.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:19
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This is where I find out that Selkie myth is a goon. drat. Anyway I finished Red Mist volume one, now I can go back and edit Sect Leader. https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/46687/red-mist I'm always surprised that Sect Leader is way more popular than Red Mist. But hey. Anyway LET ME RECOMMEND ALL THE DUST THAT FALLS. It's pretty drat sweet and was on rising stars for a while.
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Dec 25, 2022 01:47
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blastron posted:I think a cool twist on something like Jackal Among Snakes would be for the protagonist’s extreme competence to be the result of them still unconsciously interacting with the world as if it were a game and as a result automatically getting the same level of proficiency that a player character would have. Then, when they try to do something off script, like trying to say something that wouldn’t be in the game’s dialogue tree, that proficiency would suddenly leave them, and the further they alter the course of the world the less automatic proficiency they would get, since the game would no longer be covering those situations. I feel like I read a story with the kind of script/competency interaction you describe but I can't remember the name. Maybe in a webcomic? As avoraciopoctules notes; Practical Guide to Evil sort of embodies this concept. It's an explicit rule of the universe that the more you lean into your role, the stronger the role (you) are. There's no explicit "script," though; just grooves in reality worn by repetition. I think people being worried about being subsumed in their role of hero/princess/leader/office worker and "losing themselves" is a fairly common plot beat. Maybe that's what I'm thinking of? But that's not really what you were suggesting. I'll keep thinking about it and let you know if I remember where I've read this implemented. LLSix fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Dec 25, 2022 |
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Dec 25, 2022 02:46
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One kind of subtle thing Cradle does I really like is the protagonist gets more sloppy and irrational as he gets more powerful. I think more of these power fantasy serials with smart protagonists could do that better, with later challenges coming from the protagonists greater desires or even lack of care, which is definitely a real life poison to success.
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Dec 25, 2022 03:39
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I haven't noticed Lindon becoming more irrational over time. His personality does change/mature a fair bit, but mostly in terms of confidence. Conversely I think you could apply that reasoning to Argrave in Jackal Among Snakes much more easily. I guess there's a somewhat similar trend with each becoming more protective of their friends, but I think the change is much more drastic with Argrave.
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Dec 25, 2022 06:58
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nrook posted:I mean I wouldn’t exactly be surprised to find out you’re good at it, and it also isn’t a shocker to hear you’re working in a field where (you probably think) 99% of the works are trash. Worked on anything good lately? a translator who hates a trashy work can elevate it into decent comedy, RIP the competent translator on 'I Can Turn Into A Fish'. quote:David drove Chu Xian to the Statue of Liberty, and on the way, he described the history of the area in detail. After that, they went to Wall Street.*
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Dec 30, 2022 02:32
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I've been power-reading Dragoneye Moons and just got whiplash from The new Emperor announcing Elaine's triumph, also btw time for a genocide campaign followed immediately by an exposition chapter on picking classes. It feels like an event that should have occurred several days earlier or later, and Elaine's reaction to the spoiler way more important to focus on. Also awkward that half the authors from the non-canon crossover stories are on KU now. Wish at least a handful of early chapters were still free to get a preview before signing up for something I'll forget about but still pay for for months.
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Dec 30, 2022 02:41
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 01:37 |
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I appreciate Larry Parish's posts he's linked a few things I found interesting.
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Dec 30, 2022 05:18
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