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blastron posted:Is it ethical (or legal) to train a model on copyrighted artwork without the consent of the artist, and is it ethical (or legal) to use that model to generate images in that person’s style? I mean, adobe is doing it by default and you have to specifically opt out. People on reddit can agitate and say whatever they want to but corps are rolling right over opinions unless they have the lawyers to contest it. Good luck! Adobe is probably 50% lawyers by volume. 
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Jan 6, 2023 02:03
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blastron posted:Similarly, there are AI models that are trained on artwork and writing that is publicly available to view, but is copyrighted. If a model is able to convincingly replicate someone’s style, then it must have been trained on that person’s artwork. Is it ethical (or legal) to train a model on copyrighted artwork without the consent of the artist, and is it ethical (or legal) to use that model to generate images in that person’s style? That's not a legal issue at all though. Looking at someone's artwork and then copying their style is super common in commercial artwork.
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Jan 6, 2023 02:23
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Patrick Spens posted:That's not a legal issue at all though. Looking at someone's artwork and then copying their style is super common in commercial artwork. ....do you think that's what ai art is doing
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Jan 6, 2023 02:45
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Patrick Spens posted:That's not a legal issue at all though. Looking at someone's artwork and then copying their style is super common in commercial artwork. That’s categorically not how AI art works.
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Jan 6, 2023 03:00
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No that is how it works. You add the image to the training data, and once you have added enough things tagged "Picasso" or whatever the AI can spit out images that have the unique characteristics of a Picasso painting. And presumably this is the point where you're like, "adding an image to training data is making a copy dumbass." But computers generally and the internet in particular already mean that the act of making an electronic copy isn't actually what copyright law is concerned with. Like, if a movie studio uses temp music to cut together a scene that will necessarily be making copies of a song (almost always a copyrighted one) but unless the finished track is derivative enough of one specific song there still hasn't actually been a violation. Patrick Spens fucked around with this message at 17:23 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 05:02
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The law largely doesn't care what tools you used to create some art. Ultimately a copyright infringement case is going to have a judge/jury looking at the two end products and deciding if they're too similar. It doesn't matter if the copy came from someone handpainting it or from a model regurgitating an image it was fit on. Independent creation is a defense, but similar things are presumed to be copies unless you can prove otherwise, which is a high bar (e.g. songwriters do lose cases where some little bit of melody is similar to something in an old song because they can't prove they never heard the first one)
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Jan 6, 2023 05:10
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Yeah neural networks do not, as a lot of people seem to think, function by making very intelligent patchwork collages of other artists' pieces. Not even at the pixel level. In fact, it would take more sophistication, not less, to do that, than to just have it study the properties of what makes a painting good and generate its own painting that satisfies those properties. It gets muddied up because the model overfits on well known art, but by and large it generates original pieces unless explicitly given an existing piece to work from. That said, asking whether or not it's ethical to include other artists' work in training data is still an important question. Humans have the right to use other artists as reference, but AI in this form is unprecedented, so it's important to establish at this early stage what rights apply to these systems, even when they're generating original works.
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Jan 6, 2023 05:40
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My rough understanding is that this sort of AI has its origins in trying to copy how human brains learn, so yeah, I think an AI training off looking at a bunch of pictures is in fact pretty similar to a human being teaching themself to draw by looking at a bunch of pictures and imitating the style. That doesn't mean it's not infringing on intellectual property, just that it kind of casts new light on how we traditionally look at intellectual property. Similarly I don't really regard it as "fake" art, since in that way it's similar to someone using advanced software to help with drawing/rendering, just way easier and less effort. It's not going to be as good as a high quality artist, but a lot of people are going to take "quick and easy and 60% as good" in a heartbeat. Which could be very bad for the livelihoods of a lot of artists. So... actually, yeah, more than anything I really do see this as John Henry vs the steam drill, take one million. Bremen fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 07:27
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The way AI art will be used to immiserate workers is the worst part of it yes, but the argument that the ai is just looking at art and learning like a person so it's ok is complete trash. AI tools aren't people. They're commercial tools. Using people's art to train them isn't analogous to a person looking at art to get better at drawing. It is analogous to and in fact literally is a company using other people's art for commercial purposes. It's stealing if you take code to train your company's industrial robots. Why wouldn't it be stealing to take other people's art to train your industrial art machine?
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Jan 6, 2023 14:06
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Bremen posted:My rough understanding is that this sort of AI has its origins in trying to copy how human brains learn, so yeah, I think an AI training off looking at a bunch of pictures is in fact pretty similar to a human being teaching themself to draw by looking at a bunch of pictures and imitating the style. I don't think that's true at all. The process of training a DL model isn't copying how human brains work, it's literally using human brains to do the actual "learning". The model itself is utterly unable to recognize patterns without them and is blind to what it is doing. Like, say you want to teach the "AI" to draw a sword. The human operator starts by feeding it a bunch of pictures of swords. The AI takes the image data from all of these and mixes and rearranges them randomly. The human operator then picks whichever output looks the closest to a sword, and the algorithm it modified to preference the modifiers it picked randomly for that image going forward. Do that enough times, and eventually the output will start to look consistently like swords. Saying that it's similar to humans teaching themselves is like saying that us selectively breeding animals is "teaching" evolution. It's nothing more than an static process for which desirable outputs will always be dependent on the hard work/sapience of actual people, whether that's the original artists or the people doing the training. PoorWeather fucked around with this message at 14:38 on Jan 6, 2023 |
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Jan 6, 2023 14:26
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There is already a thread for misinformed people yelling at each other about how Art AIs work and it's not the Web Serials thread: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=4012807&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=1
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Jan 6, 2023 14:30
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Nice that Pale Lights is being explicit that the trial is a nonsense way of recruiting anyone. That was bugging me.
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Jan 6, 2023 17:12
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BadMedic posted:Arks (New Ar'Kendrithyst Patreon chapter) Good call here! I had a feeling you got it right after you posted this, and it's a cool idea, so I'm glad you were right. It's also a disquieting little thing to have right before Erick heads into a crisis: what makes this more important for Entire Erick to be there, when he was only 40-90% present for the times where people were being assassinated daily or the prior emergences of other Wizards? (Also, Establishment continues to be funny. Even Melemizargo has no idea how much of it is happening or in what direction. loving Paradox Wizards, man.) I also like the chance to see the Apparent King officially at work, though it's much sooner than I expected; I expected it to be a big arc capstone thing rather than happening in the middle of one. Things with Everbless still feel like a pending disaster, especially with his conspicuous absence at the end of the chapter.
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Jan 8, 2023 01:37
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After seeing it mentioned here, I decided to give Memoirs of Your Local Small-time Villainess a look. It clearly either draws inspiration from or at least has a lot of parallel evolution with Jackal Among Snakes, so I can't help but compare the two. Both are about a player of an open world RPG ending up as a minor villain from that game with no idea of the how or why. Though the Memoirs has a main character who isn't as much of an expert on the game as in JAS, and it shows - since she's also lacking the memories of the person whose body she ended up in this means she makes a lot of mistakes and faux pas. And while she doesn't have the memories of her original, she's somehow stuck with the personality, more or less forcing her to act like arrogant nobility much of the time (though she seems to have a limited ability to suppress it). The gameworld in Memoirs also feels much more directly Skyrim inspired, with a much more linear plot and a landscape littered with conveniently loot filled dungeons (the story doesn't try to address why a cave full of bears has a treasure chest with a magic wand in it, because that's just how it was in the game). There's even a reference to a faction that repeatedly sends assassins after you if you piss them off, and that's like Bethesda gameplay 101. Memoirs also has LitRPG elements, with the protagonist gaining skill points to level up skills as opposed to JAS where the protagonist actually has to learn spells the traditional way. There were parts of the story I didn't really love - the MC having no memories of who all the people around her were or how she should act, including such things as not recognizing her own fiance, gave me a sort of second hand social anxiety, and the plot didn't seem as well planned out or as interesting as JAS. But despite all that, Memoirs was a surprisingly fun story to read, with a quick pace and lots of fun characters. Overall I probably wouldn't say I liked it more than JAS, but it was surprisingly close.
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Jan 9, 2023 02:49
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quote:since she's also lacking the memories of the person whose body she ended up in this means she makes a lot of mistakes and faux pas.
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Jan 9, 2023 03:01
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Cicero posted:That's also true in JAS, and it does cause him occasional problems, though less than you'd expect. In JAS the MC has a near-encyclopedic knowledge of all the characters, though, so he can partially make up for it. He also interacts with people close to the original as little as possible. In Memoirs the MC doesn't really remember any details of the minor miniboss she killed the two times she played and has to flail about trying to deal with her social circle and associates.
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Jan 9, 2023 03:19
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Bremen posted:After seeing it mentioned here, I decided to give Memoirs of Your Local Small-time Villainess a look. JAS started a month later, it's probably the other way around.
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Jan 9, 2023 11:08
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For anyone that liked it but had maybe dropped it off their follow list, it looks like The Last Orellen has started updated again.
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Jan 11, 2023 06:22
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Outcast in Another World (insanity etc) is having another side story and I haaaaated the one about Jason. The blurb makes says this new side story is written by a different author, does that mean the Jason one was also?
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Jan 12, 2023 06:02
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Yes, this side story and the previous one were both written by the same author, and considering the last short story was too long and this one is even longer I’m just going to skip it.
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Jan 12, 2023 07:15
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I've only read the first part of it but it's about a dinosaur-themed pro-wrestler so I don't see the problem.
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Jan 12, 2023 10:23
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I haven't minded the Jason stuff. I like the dinosaur wrestler guy. Doing atrocities aside, Valmight kind of owns just for (from what we know) being a normal human who is actually standing up to the gods and harnessing the power of blightspawn.
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Jan 12, 2023 14:31
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imnotinsane posted:Yes, this side story and the previous one were both written by the same author, and considering the last short story was too long and this one is even longer I’m just going to skip it.
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Jan 12, 2023 15:35
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Faldoncow posted:For anyone that liked it but had maybe dropped it off their follow list, it looks like The Last Orellen has started updated again. Hurray! Christmas came late this year.
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Jan 12, 2023 16:39
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i didn't like the first jason interlude very much but dinoman is a funny enough character to get 2 chapters
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Jan 12, 2023 16:39
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I kinda want a dinoman redemption arc now
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Jan 13, 2023 07:55
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Jeez one of like three serial authors I even read anymore passed away it looks like. Was the dude behind https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/60207/psycho-duel-revelations-a-deckbuilding-litrpg https://www.gofundme.com/f/Terrellgarrett rip if true because lol with endemic grifter culture there is always that 10% chance
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Jan 14, 2023 14:47
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holy poo poo i was actually reading this guy he was writing good poo poo at a good pace, i thought he had a big future as a dumb webnovel author rip man i feel depressed now Megazver fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jan 14, 2023 |
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Jan 14, 2023 15:00
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imnotinsane posted:Yes, this side story and the previous one were both written by the same author, and considering the last short story was too long and this one is even longer I’m just going to skip it. I got stuck on the first side story and still have not read "Is Insanity a Racial Trait" since.
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Jan 14, 2023 16:53
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Katalepsis 19.9 That was a nice chapter. I really like how Heather's descriptions of the spirit life has slowly shifted away from horror-style language to more biology-style language. It's a nice subtle touch on how she's slowly adapting to and accepting her abilities.
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Jan 14, 2023 17:07
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BadMedic posted:Katalepsis 19.9 She's getting there! Maybe she'll get a chance to investigate them further, sometime soon. I'm really glad that aspect came across clearly. And while I'm here, I actually have another serial up and running now, in addition to Katalepsis, but it's been so long that I've completely forgotten the etiquette for linking or sharing one's own work here.
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Jan 14, 2023 17:38
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The etiquette is it's good
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Jan 14, 2023 18:13
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Okay then! Necroepilogos (also on Royal Road) is a far-future, post-post-post-apocalyptic, sci-fi horror story, with lots of body horror and alienation, weird zombie-girls gluing themselves back together, mad science beyond mortal ken, and trying to cradle the flower of companionship in twitching, undead fingers. I'm very bad at blurbs so I just copied that line from my own website. It's also very lesbian and a bit trans, as with everything I write. Got a really long blurb here. One of my readers recently described it as "infinite fortnite with undead lesbians", which, 1. made me cackle, and 2. is such a good tag line that I need to use it somehow. It's currently updating once a week, on Thursdays; I've been writing it since October, so the introduction is complete and there's a nice big chunk to read now. If you know me from Katalepsis, be warned that Necroepilogos is very different - more violent, darker, quicker, with more of an action focus. A bit less 'lesbian soap opera', though some of that is inevitable.
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Jan 14, 2023 18:52
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And on the subject of the lesbian soap opera Katalepsis 19.11 (patreon) “The only entity which could possibly teach me more is the Eye. But I don’t think I need more lessons. I have to go beyond the Eye’s lessons. I have to accept this, somehow, and build something new.” Heather getting ready to go Super Sapphic 2
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Jan 14, 2023 20:16
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Hungry posted:Okay then! I'm here for the lesbian necromancers or lesbian soap operas. In other news, taking a hiatus after finishing Red Mist Volume one is nice, but my brain wants to just finish all of it, so I started writing it again a bit. However, Sect Leader, which I am currently editing for publication, of course hit 100k views months after being done. ...Yep next book is a LitRPG.
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Jan 14, 2023 20:17
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Hungry posted:more violent, darker, quicker, with more of an action focus. TBH I really enjoy your writing, but that's exactly what I don't want in a story right now, same with the post-apocalyptic setting. I ended up dropping Dragon's Dilemma for similar reasons, cause I liked the story but I just couldn't handle how violent it would get. Oh also Kaiju: Battlefield Surgeon, well written but way too much for me. One of the things I like about katalepsis is how it's horror, but without getting into the intense gore and violence common in the genre.
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Jan 14, 2023 21:06
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Elfface posted:And on the subject of the lesbian soap opera Thank you for inserting the phrase "Super Sapphic 2" into my brain. Love it. Dream Weaver posted:I'm here for the lesbian necromancers or lesbian soap operas. Same. BadMedic posted:TBH I really enjoy your writing, but that's exactly what I don't want in a story right now, same with the post-apocalyptic setting. I ended up dropping Dragon's Dilemma for similar reasons, cause I liked the story but I just couldn't handle how violent it would get. Oh also Kaiju: Battlefield Surgeon, well written but way too much for me. No worries, that's absolutely fine! Katalepsis is continuing at the exact same pace as before, Book One concluding probably sometime this year, but Book Two is ready to go right after. It's still getting the majority of my time and attention. Glad you like it so much, thank you!
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Jan 14, 2023 21:47
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You know, if you replace punching with kissing DBZ really is an excellent microcosm of early-20s LGBT relationship drama, you could spin a whole terrible romance series off of that. Every time you run out of ideas and get stuck, invoke chandler's law by having Vegeta storm into the room and kiss someone. (Instead of linear power creep, you have linear polycule creep. By chapter 100 it's just like 50 guys on a boat having a great vacation.)
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Jan 14, 2023 23:06
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Hungry posted:Okay then! Katalepsis is fantastic, so I will definitely give your new story a try.
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Jan 14, 2023 23:50
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Omi no Kami posted:(Instead of linear power creep, you have linear polycule creep. By chapter 100 it's just like 50 guys on a boat having a great vacation.) It is 2053. Heather's polycule has expanded to include every lesbian on the planet, and countless more Outside. She still can't handle someone flirting with her.
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Jan 15, 2023 00:14
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