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Wait who the heck are Dancer and Kellenvad? Are they the people who possessed Sorry last book? They’re talking about them as if we are supposed to know them and I have zero recollection of them and of course Erickson doesn’t include them in the dramatic personae list. They mention Cotillion and Shadowthrone in reference to them and I think that was what they did in the first book, right? And they’re Ascendants correct? Same with the term “Red Blades.” Erickson doesn’t include it in his glossary. What are they in context here? What separates them from other armies in this book?
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Jan 22, 2023 17:20
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D'ivers are shapeshifters that change into many different animals, like a pack of jackals or swarm of bees. Soultaken are single animals like a bear or tiger. Generally speaking they are Very Old. You meet one later that is many dudes who turn into one big animal. I'm phone posting so won't even try to spell their names but the two dudes you mentioned are the two gods you mentioned, and yes Dancer possessed Sorry. They entered the Azath House and ascendedto take the previously empty throne of shadow.The D'ivers and Soultaken are, if I remember correctly, racing for another Azath House to secure its power in this book. Red Blades are a generic company of the army separate from the rest of the army. Like mercenaries. BigHead fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 22, 2023 |
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Jan 22, 2023 17:55
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It's really best at almost any point in the books to just trust the process and keep reading. That is always one of my favorite parts of his writing, he'll take about a drat dozen story lines and just kind of simmer them through the middle of the book until they just boil over together at the end.
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Jan 22, 2023 18:20
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Conrad_Birdie posted:Wait who the heck are Dancer and Kellenvad? Are they the people who possessed Sorry last book? They’re talking about them as if we are supposed to know them and I have zero recollection of them and of course Erickson doesn’t include them in the dramatic personae list. They mention Cotillion and Shadowthrone in reference to them and I think that was what they did in the first book, right? And they’re Ascendants correct? Keep reading. Most things will click into place as you read. I went in blind and it was the best choice.
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Jan 22, 2023 18:27
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So my understanding of everything seems like it’s about where Erickson wants it to be at this point in the story, alright
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Jan 22, 2023 18:38
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Conrad_Birdie posted:So my understanding of everything seems like it’s about where Erickson wants it to be at this point in the story, alright Yes. You learn and put things together at about the pace the reader PoV characters like the marines do.
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Jan 22, 2023 18:41
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Then when you read them again you notice more and more, especially in the later books. It is a hell of a gatekeeper for a first book but after that they just get incredible in my opinion. I've never had to just put a book down before and like... unpack it. There are multiple sequences in these books that just blew my mind.
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Jan 22, 2023 18:51
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D'ivers (Diverse - many) and Soletaken (Sole - one) shapeshifters.... you man groan now.
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Jan 22, 2023 22:08
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dishwasherlove posted:D'ivers (Diverse - many) and Soletaken (Sole - one) shapeshifters.... you man groan now. Booooooo
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Jan 22, 2023 22:25
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dishwasherlove posted:D'ivers (Diverse - many) and Soletaken (Sole - one) shapeshifters.... you man groan now. Oh God I've never seen it before.
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Jan 23, 2023 00:42
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I always interpreted this more like „soul“
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Jan 23, 2023 18:49
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Conrad_Birdie posted:Wait who the heck are Dancer and Kellenvad? Are they the people who possessed Sorry last book? They’re talking about them as if we are supposed to know them and I have zero recollection of them and of course Erickson doesn’t include them in the dramatic personae list. They mention Cotillion and Shadowthrone in reference to them and I think that was what they did in the first book, right? And they’re Ascendants correct? Red Blades are Seven Cities (the region where Book 2 takes place) natives, but are mega loyal to the Malazan Empire. Kellanved was the founding Emrperor of the Malazan Empire, Dancer was his right-hand man and mega assassin. And yeah, Cotillion is the dude who possessed Sorry, and Shadowthrone is his creepy mate. Both are ascendants.
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Jan 23, 2023 20:46
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Giant….finger?!???
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Jan 24, 2023 20:57
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Conrad_Birdie posted:Giant….finger?!???
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Jan 24, 2023 21:44
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BigHead posted:You meet one later that is many dudes who turn into one big animal. Who was this? I read the books a long time ago.
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Jan 24, 2023 22:11
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Tokelau All Star posted:Who was this? I read the books a long time ago. Gruntle and his brigade, I think? Huge tiger. That’s my guess, anyways.
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Jan 25, 2023 00:11
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I forget his name and it might be in the ICE books but it's a dude who is in the otataral mines I wanna say? Short 3 letterish name that's all I've got.
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Jan 25, 2023 00:31
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Do you mean Ho? He's a d'ivers that turns from one dude into several dudes. He was in the otataral mines in Return of the Crimson Guard and one of the five mages serving The Protectress in Li-Heng in Dancer's Lament.
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Jan 25, 2023 02:48
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imagine dungeons posted:Gruntle and his brigade, I think? Huge tiger. That’s my guess, anyways. Yup that's who I was thinking of
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Jan 25, 2023 06:45
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Alright finally finished TCG. Honestly I don't even know what my feelings are, aside from it being great obviously. I was a little disappointed not seeing Silverfox, I thought for sure she was going to show up, especially with the other Imass playing such a large role. I feel like there would definitely have been a way to make her play the role Fener played in turning them back to humans somehow, I thought Fener was kind of out of left field. Though making it so Gesler and Stormy summoned him was an interesting touch. I'm also not really sure what exactly happened in the sequence with Heboric and TCG chaining Korabas. I was following it fine until Cotillion killed TCG, why did he kill him? I don't feel like I found the motivation. Finally, what happened to all the other dragons and T'iam after Korabas was chained? They just left? Dead? Exploded? Did Quick Ben kill them?. I also thought that he could have stopped being unnecessarily vague in the epilogues, having to guess who he was talking about in some of the closing paragraphs was kind of annoying. I always assumed he was doing that not to ruin the surprises for later in the book/series, but now there is no later in the book or series so why are we still being obtuse. Overall though I'm not sure there's anything I've ever read that even approaches the scope of this. I've never attempted the Wheel of Time but everyone who has says not to because there are just gigantic narrative sections where nothing happens, and issues rehashed over and over again. McSpankWich fucked around with this message at 12:44 on Jan 25, 2023 |
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Jan 25, 2023 12:42
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McSpankWich posted:Alright finally finished TCG. Heboric and TCG chaining Korabas. I was following it fine until Cotillion killed TCG, why did he kill him? I don't feel like I found the motivation. Finally, what happened to all the other dragons and T'iam after Korabas was chained? They just left? Dead? Exploded? Did Quick Ben kill them?. Cotillion kills TCG to free him of his mortal body so his soul can go free and join his followers in the green statues flying by the planet. Not sure about the dragons but I always thought they just kind of bailed since their frenzy catalyst disappeared
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Jan 25, 2023 12:49
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It'll make a lot more sense on your reread. Many little hints and threads. Themes you'll appreciate more.
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Jan 25, 2023 12:54
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McSpankWich posted:Overall though I'm not sure there's anything I've ever read that even approaches the scope of this. I've never attempted the Wheel of Time but everyone who has says not to because there are just gigantic narrative sections where nothing happens, and issues rehashed over and over again. I'm on book 10 of WoT at the moment and I wouldn't say it is any worse than Malazan in this respect, which can sometimes feel like it is deviating for the course of a whole book, even if said books then join up with the rest of the story. There are definitely bits in WoT that are slower than others, but to me they just heighten the more exciting and dramatic moments. You can't have every book in a 14 volume series move at breakneck pace - it would just be exhausting and ultimately less impactful. In my view, anyway. In my opinion Malazan is definitely superior from a literary standpoint, both in terms of the quality of the prose and depth and ambition of the theming. But WoT does have a huge scope and offers great escapism. I'm enjoying it a great deal.
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Jan 25, 2023 16:41
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You get more Silverfox in ICE's Assail book. You'll wish you didn't though.
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Jan 25, 2023 16:56
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:I'm on book 10 of WoT at the moment and I wouldn't say it is any worse than Malazan in this respect, which can sometimes feel like it is deviating for the course of a whole book, even if said books then join up with the rest of the story. There are definitely bits in WoT that are slower than others, but to me they just heighten the more exciting and dramatic moments. You can't have every book in a 14 volume series move at breakneck pace - it would just be exhausting and ultimately less impactful. In my view, anyway. *tugs braid furiously*
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Jan 25, 2023 17:03
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Guyver posted:You get more Silverfox in ICE's Assail book. Yeah. I liked the book more on a re-read, but... not that character.
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Jan 25, 2023 19:08
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McSpankWich posted:Alright finally finished TCG. Honestly I don't even know what my feelings are, aside from it being great obviously. I was a little disappointed not seeing Silverfox, I thought for sure she was going to show up, especially with the other Imass playing such a large role. I feel like there would definitely have been a way to make her play the role Fener played in turning them back to humans somehow, I thought Fener was kind of out of left field. Though making it so Gesler and Stormy summoned him was an interesting touch. I'm also not really sure what exactly happened in the sequence with Heboric and TCG chaining Korabas. I was following it fine until Cotillion killed TCG, why did he kill him? I don't feel like I found the motivation. Finally, what happened to all the other dragons and T'iam after Korabas was chained? They just left? Dead? Exploded? Did Quick Ben kill them?. I also thought that he could have stopped being unnecessarily vague in the epilogues, having to guess who he was talking about in some of the closing paragraphs was kind of annoying. I always assumed he was doing that not to ruin the surprises for later in the book/series, but now there is no later in the book or series so why are we still being obtuse. One thing I didn't pick up at first is that when Heboric uses his weird otataral/green jade fusion powers to pull Korabas down, is that he ends up chilling with Korabas under the earth for all eternity. Because while it's staggeringly unfair that Korabas has to be imprisoned, at least this time she doesn't have to be lonely 
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Jan 25, 2023 23:12
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McSpankWich posted:Alright finally finished TCG. Honestly I don't even know what my feelings are, aside from it being great obviously. I was a little disappointed not seeing Silverfox, I thought for sure she was going to show up, especially with the other Imass playing such a large role. I feel like there would definitely have been a way to make her play the role Fener played in turning them back to humans somehow, I thought Fener was kind of out of left field. Though making it so Gesler and Stormy summoned him was an interesting touch. I'm also not really sure what exactly happened in the sequence with Heboric and TCG chaining Korabas. I was following it fine until Cotillion killed TCG, why did he kill him? I don't feel like I found the motivation. Finally, what happened to all the other dragons and T'iam after Korabas was chained? They just left? Dead? Exploded? Did Quick Ben kill them?. I also thought that he could have stopped being unnecessarily vague in the epilogues, having to guess who he was talking about in some of the closing paragraphs was kind of annoying. I always assumed he was doing that not to ruin the surprises for later in the book/series, but now there is no later in the book or series so why are we still being obtuse. Erikson likes being obtuse. He likes to leave things vague and unclear because he's an archaeologist/athropologist and that's what he sees history as, and his books are a history of a fantasy world. It's also easier for him as a writer, he's not the type that gives a poo poo about internal consistency that drives people to obsess over precise interpretations of fantasy events. Which, OK, that's his deal. I'm also fine with other authors who have intricately consistent world building, but that not him. As for the specific spoilers: Korabas has to be chained if you want magic to exist which as other have said is horribly unfair but they gave her a buddy so it's a little less lonely. I don't precisely get how Heboric's magic works into this, though. Cotillion killed the crippled god, because his nature was anathema to the world he had been brought to and having his body there would also chain him there. Essentially Korabas had to be chained to preserve the world and TCG had to be unchained to preserve it. Fixing one injustice required a different one. The dragons just kinda evaporated and hosed off to whatever they previously had been doing without the motivation to gather and fight Korabas.
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Jan 26, 2023 20:09
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I mean I guess the magical disappearing dragons wouldn't be as weird if Silchas and Tulas hadn't made such a big deal about the storm making you into a frenzied killing machine with no mind of your own. You'd think if that was the case they'd start mindlessly attacking everything around them even if their catalyst was gone.
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Jan 27, 2023 20:02
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McSpankWich posted:I mean I guess the magical disappearing dragons wouldn't be as weird if Silchas and Tulas hadn't made such a big deal about the storm making you into a frenzied killing machine with no mind of your own. You'd think if that was the case they'd start mindlessly attacking everything around them even if their catalyst was gone. Maybe the dragons all killed each other? Eleint are pretty much all a massive bag of dicks.
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Jan 27, 2023 22:19
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McSpankWich posted:I mean I guess the magical disappearing dragons wouldn't be as weird if Silchas and Tulas hadn't made such a big deal about the storm making you into a frenzied killing machine with no mind of your own. You'd think if that was the case they'd start mindlessly attacking everything around them even if their catalyst was gone. Guess without the unified goal of killing Korabas they probably returned to killing each other, and the storm slowly dissipated.
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Jan 27, 2023 22:50
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kingturnip posted:Maybe the dragons all killed each other? Eleint are pretty much all a massive bag of dicks. Oh, I dunno, Silanah seems pretty chill.
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Jan 30, 2023 08:29
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My boy in TTH who gets brute Merc'd by Kallor was solid as poo poo too.
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Jan 30, 2023 23:54
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TGG posted:My boy in TTH who gets brute Merc'd by Kallor was solid as poo poo too. He wasn't eleint, though; just a soletaken. And Silanah certainly seems chill, but that's because Rake asked her to be chill. She really isn't during the battle at The Shore, when she's psychically screaming at all the coward soletaken to turn into dragons and burn poo poo down. And the stories of her during Blackdog Swamp don't make her sound very chill either. I think Silanah and Teloras/Curdle are the only true eleint we meet in the main series. Unless you want to count the chained dragons in Shadow that Cotillion seems to like hanging out with like the emo he is.
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Jan 31, 2023 00:25
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I'm maybe halfway through Deadhouse Gates now and loving it. I don't really mind that it doesn't have a clear central plot? It feels almost like historical fiction in that it's the story of the entire rebellion, told through the eyes of a few specific people, who are pursuing their own storylines that may or may not get wrapped up in this book. I read a negative review that said it was "like a series of random encounters in a D&D game" which I feel is very accurate not just because there are lots of random meetings but because those encounters are implausibly consequential. Like Hiboric and Felisin stumble across a giant finger of some dead god (?), the boar god, an insane mage in a warren full of goat's milk (???), some Tiste Andii, some Tiste Edur, and then some T'Lan Imass, all in the course of a few chapters. Unless there's some deeper link that I'm not seeing yet, most of these encounters happen independent of each other, in the middle of a desert where nobody goes. That's some strong player character energy right there.
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Jan 31, 2023 05:19
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Sailor Viy posted:I read a negative review that said it was "like a series of random encounters in a D&D game" 
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Jan 31, 2023 06:28
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Sailor Viy posted:I'm maybe halfway through Deadhouse Gates now and loving it. I don't really mind that it doesn't have a clear central plot? It feels almost like historical fiction in that it's the story of the entire rebellion, told through the eyes of a few specific people, who are pursuing their own storylines that may or may not get wrapped up in this book.
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Jan 31, 2023 10:24
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Sailor Viy posted:I'm maybe halfway through Deadhouse Gates now and loving it. I don't really mind that it doesn't have a clear central plot? It feels almost like historical fiction in that it's the story of the entire rebellion, told through the eyes of a few specific people, who are pursuing their own storylines that may or may not get wrapped up in this book. Kinda all of this is right - Erikson is intentionally writing a fictional history of a rebellion - it's based on a RPG play through by the author - the plot threads do have a central theme that will eventually tie together by the end, and a few that won't make sense until entire books later. It's one of the reasons poeple say this series is a rewarding re-read Malazan is probalby the most well done "here's my overly thought out backstory for my player character" a nerd has ever written
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Jan 31, 2023 19:40
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Finished Reapers Gale after dropping it like for 2 years. My winter vacation was reading Reapers Gale on a Thai beach and it was amazing. -I love how this book is like 2 books in one. I know Erikson separates the sections of the story in multiple books. But when the invaders arrive to Letheras, it definitely changes the whole tone of the book. -The whole Edur gathering strongest warriors from across the world to fight their emperor is such a badass idea. Just boats arriving to the capital with these monsters. -I know a few notable characters die in this book but I really didn't like the ones getting revived because I felt it negated the impact of previous moments when they died. Like 2 important characters just get revived for no reason when they had such impactful moments already. Did we really need Hedge to be revived from the refugium? Him meeting Quickben was cool enough and he had already helped Fiddler in the previous books as a ghost. Brys I am less bothered by but I mean Bugg was literally gonna be at the same spot he was so I don't know why he had to revived either. -Karsa didn't get to Karsa that much in book. So I am sad about that. -Udinaas is so annoying for the first half of the trip but he also has some of the best passages in the whole book. His comparison of their journey to a archetypical hero's journey was amazing. -Erikson isn't the best at writing combat but he is the best at making the strategical military aspect of it. That invasion part is just filled with some great nerd military tidbits. -Same as Karsa, I felt like Icarium's plotline was a lot of build with no real payoff. -One of the best scenes in the book is Icarium's first step off the boat, a loving earthquake happens. -I did love how Erikson subverts expectations all the time. The first half of the book builds up to a possible Karsa/Icarium clash but they just end up shaking hands and moving on. -Tehol/Bugg are great as usual, as someone who works in finance I loved their plot and it showing how ridiculous financial systems can get in a crony state. -The themes of Edur being the conquerors and the Letheras being the conquered yet in reality their roles being switched was amazing. Erikson is loving amazing at creating these paradoxical themes. -Rhulad I feel bad for but he is also to blame because he is unbelievable stupid although I forget his exact age, maybe he is just a teenager? -Erikson usually writes some characters who's sole existence is for the reader to despite like Bidithal in House of Chains and that slave owner Karsa destroys. But a brilliant twist is him giving the reader the POV of one. Tanal is one of the worst humans in the entire books but the fact that Erikson gives you his pov is pretty courageous writing. Sirryn Kanar is as awful for what he does at the end. -The redmask story felt like a complete side story since it had no impact in the main plot atleast for now. But it was cool to see K'chain Che Malle gently caress poo poo up. The letheri get a terrible rep in this book so you don't even feel bad at them getting ripped by dinos. -Last but not least Quick Ben is so loving strong, like the things he does toward the end of the books. He literally takes on like 2 god level characters back to back Ulio fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Feb 1, 2023 |
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Feb 1, 2023 17:33
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Ulio posted:I felt like Icarium's plotline was a lot of build with no real payoff. I don't want to be "well akshully", but, well... actually.
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