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This chapter is great for speculation cause I have no clue what this could be. Intrusive thoughts or impulse control seems to be the ability used, but those don’t really make sense as a primal fear and it’s also similar to control/authority so I don’t think that makes sense in the setting. Unless big enough fears also get a horseman as a representative. Makima immediately coming back as Nayuta would make sense if there was a primal Control that immediately killed her in hell, but I don’t think this theory is supported in universe. Despair would make sense as well, although the reactions people were giving really didn’t seem like despair. They all fell so it could be fear of heights which seems like a good candidate for primal fear, but then that doesn’t make sense for the lead-up. Could also be the suicide devil but that doesn’t really seem like a primal fear, and that would go more with intrusive thoughts or impulse control anyway. Last guess is this is the Mania devil, everything kind of works if that’s the case.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:04
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Whoever said the change Devil is also a good guess considering the proceeding scene. Also sort of fits the story so far and could be construed as chaos or randomness. Or the fear of the happening by m night shamalan Devil
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Mar 7, 2023 22:06
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Japanese readers saying that the mystery devil is described using the same wording as Darkness Devil, so “primal fear” seems more correct than “true source of fear” fanlation
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Mar 7, 2023 22:08
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I guess all this must be some plan of Hell? We know that the primals like Darkness never end up on earth because they are just too danged strong to be killed by other devils. I think it was said "they've never known death" or some such and have never been reincarnated. That's a hell of a first big fight for the second story and I don't see how Denji alone does anything about it. Maybe it's just gonna do what it came to do and be the setup for preventing something even worse, idk.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:32
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Defeat Devil.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:44
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With the general nihilism of the CSM world I’m not sure Death would be a primal fear anymore. Maybe that’s what this is all for, to power it back up.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:49
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Whoever said the change Devil is also a good guess considering the proceeding scene. Also sort of fits the story so far and could be construed as chaos or randomness. This is also my theory, I think change definitely counts as a primal fear. New and different things/events have always been scary for people due to how unpredictable they are-- the promotion might earn you more money, but what about long hours or more expectations? What if you can't hack it and get fired immediately? A new car would be cool, but what if it just costs you more in the long run? What if you wind up wishing things were the way they were before? And the death tie-in -- death is both the ultimate change in life states and also completely permanent once it happens. No more scary change.
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Mar 7, 2023 22:57
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if such a powerful devil has appeared in the human world, then who killed it in hell? previously we were told that the primal fear devils like the darkness devil had never once died due to being so powerful
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Mar 7, 2023 23:23
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lih posted:if such a powerful devil has appeared in the human world, then who killed it in hell? previously we were told that the primal fear devils like the darkness devil had never once died due to being so powerful the hell devil was killed during kishibe’s op against makima, so theoretically any devils in hell strong enough to intimidate it could have an alternate route
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Mar 7, 2023 23:25
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RatHat posted:With the general nihilism of the CSM world I’m not sure Death would be a primal fear anymore. Maybe that’s what this is all for, to power it back up. It’s plenty good as a big bad. It fits in both as a horseman and a primal fear But I think there’s room for fears more interesting than that I am nursing a daydream that a future arc will feature fears of conventionally positive things. A Life Devil, or a Truth Devil. Justice Devil was a pretty good twist on that idea. And I think we haven’t actually seen Justice Devil yet, just people who made contracts with it!
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Mar 7, 2023 23:40
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lih posted:if such a powerful devil has appeared in the human world, then who killed it in hell? previously we were told that the primal fear devils like the darkness devil had never once died due to being so powerful It could be that ultimate terror that's why the new primal devil is the herald because the ultimate terror killed her and sent her to Earth.
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Mar 7, 2023 23:51
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It'd be really funny if it was Suicide Devil and it just killed itself in Hell.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:01
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C’mon guys Any devil can slip Hell Devil a few bucks to Uber them to earth
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Mar 8, 2023 00:02
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Ooo. Rideshare Devil.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:06
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Scholtz posted:It's the Cyberbullying "kill you'reself" Devil Where's Tyler the Creator when we need him the most?
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Mar 8, 2023 00:20
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Yeah seriously, it's been established that dying in hell is a way to get to Earth, but it isn't the only way, and we probably don't even know all the ways. The loving Spider Devil got Makima there. This has got me thinking though, what if all of the suicides weren't this primal fear's doing and were a way of summoning it to Earth? Seems unlikely, either some sorta suicide devil would need to be nearby or need to work remotely. Then the primal fear could be anything.
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Mar 8, 2023 00:58
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Brightman posted:Yeah seriously, it's been established that dying in hell is a way to get to Earth, but it isn't the only way, and we probably don't even know all the ways. The loving Spider Devil got Makima there. I think Spider devil was just able to bring Makima to her, she can’t just teleport to Hell whenever she wants.
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Mar 8, 2023 01:03
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RatHat posted:I think Spider devil was just able to bring Makima to her, she can’t just teleport to Hell whenever she wants. I'll be honest it's unclear, but also not entirely my point, it's still a way into hell for Makima. I just re-read those chapters and Prinz is nowhere to be seen between Makima telling them to make sure to extract Denji and retrieve as many corpses as possible and her showing up in hell after everyone else loses their arms and such. It's probably a safe assumption that she was in the building and went to hell but kept hidden (she just phases up out of the ground) but it's not clear. Like I don't know if she can like summon herself to people or just teleport but it's more likely she was just concealed in the department store. Again, it's beside the point that there are several ways in and out of hell and we probably don't know them all.
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Mar 8, 2023 03:03
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Brightman posted:I'll be honest it's unclear, but also not entirely my point, it's still a way into hell for Makima. like maybe? if that's true tho why has a primal fear never visited earth for some happy fun times? feels like access into and out of hell being generally restricted is a thing even if it can be bypassed in some way we really don't know a ton about devils outside of they like to eat people. I'm sure there's more going on here, since we had a pretty unreliable narrator for part 1 in Makima. like are there factions? we see some devils cowing such as Typhoon to Reze. they can clearly form relationships, but to what end? is there a society in hell outside of murder death kill? are there pacts and alliances or rules of conduct? we're essentially reading a slice of life manga in the middle of a doomsday battle royale scenario. I expect poo poo to get buck wild considering what's already happened and where Fire Punch ended up going
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Mar 8, 2023 03:37
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Yeah there's a lot of info we should be taking with a giant grain of salt given how things have shaken out. While I think there are several ways out of hell I'm not saying it's easy, they might involve complex conditions or have a high cost.
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Mar 8, 2023 06:21
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Wasn't the Gun Devil summoned through a contract?
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Mar 8, 2023 07:55
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Didn't makima get everyone out by forcing doll guy to use his hell devil contract? Probably got in the same/similar
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Mar 8, 2023 08:50
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Das Boo posted:Defeat Devil. I actually like this idea. I feel like the author wouldn't have focused on the conversation they did if it didn't matter to some degree, so the people guessing in this kind of vein of defeat, loss or resignation feels like it fits the vibe of the scene with people kind of giving up and killing themselves, following a conversation where one guy's trying to argue for why he wants this thing now that he might finally be able to afford it only to be shot down on how that's a bad idea.
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Mar 8, 2023 11:15
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It’s the social anxiety devil. Talking to another person for 30 seconds? Welp, guess I’ll just die. 
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Mar 8, 2023 16:30
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Elite posted:It’s the social anxiety devil. It's the "I've had plans for a week with this person and today is the day I'm supposed to go out" devil
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Mar 8, 2023 16:54
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The Commitment Devil maybe?
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Mar 8, 2023 19:47
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Wellwinds posted:Didn't makima get everyone out by forcing doll guy to use his hell devil contract? Probably got in the same/similar didn't that contract require sacrificing 3 children and the old man doll? there are ways into hell but you kinda have to know the rules of equivalent exchange. devils can be super fickle about what they'll accept
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Mar 8, 2023 21:12
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Bread Set Jettison posted:Mine is fear of failure Im guessing it's this. the fail devil
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Mar 8, 2023 21:37
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:didn't that contract require sacrificing 3 children and the old man doll? there are ways into hell but you kinda have to know the rules of equivalent exchange. devils can be super fickle about what they'll accept I think if someone like Darkness asked a devil to do something then that devil would comply without much argument that or try to swallow their own head
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Mar 8, 2023 22:05
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Oxxidation posted:I think if someone like Darkness asked a devil to do something then that devil would comply without much argument sure but I was talking about getting in. like I said before how come no primal has decided to cause a ruckus on earth they should be able to easily get in? do they keep each other in check?
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Mar 8, 2023 22:14
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:sure but I was talking about getting in. like I said before how come no primal has decided to cause a ruckus on earth they should be able to easily get in? do they keep each other in check? Why would they? They're already plenty feared, and there's not much to interest them on Earth.
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Mar 8, 2023 22:32
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Oxxidation posted:I think if someone like Darkness asked a devil to do something then that devil would comply without much argument I'd imagine Power isn't an outlier and the average devil is incredibly opportunistic and cowardly
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Mar 8, 2023 23:04
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chiasaur11 posted:Why would they? They're already plenty feared, and there's not much to interest them on Earth. well one of them seems to be interested in coming now. so what has changed?
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Mar 8, 2023 23:46
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:well one of them seems to be interested in coming now. so what has changed? Obviously something did, given the whole prophecy. My guess? Probably something to do with War and Chainsaw Man. Even Darkness thought Chainsaw was a big enough prize to be worth giving the power to defeat Conquest. That suggests a lot of interest. (Also, Makima being gone is probably also a factor. She'd snowballed pretty hard compared to her already high default. Nayuta is still pretty strong, but Makima had spent enough time gaming the system to make high ends like Gun into a joke.)
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Mar 9, 2023 00:20
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I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:sure but I was talking about getting in. like I said before how come no primal has decided to cause a ruckus on earth they should be able to easily get in? do they keep each other in check? I think that the Hell Devil can freely move people / devils in/out of hell, it's just that it's a devil and thus doesn't want to help others unless you pay it via a contract (or presumably are strong enough to threaten it into giving in to your demands)
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Mar 9, 2023 00:28
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CodfishCartographer posted:I think that the Hell Devil can freely move people / devils in/out of hell, it's just that it's a devil and thus doesn't want to help others unless you pay it via a contract (or presumably are strong enough to threaten it into giving in to your demands) yeh this was the point I was trying to make earlier: I R SMART LIKE ROCK posted:didn't that contract require sacrificing 3 children and the old man doll? there are ways into hell but you kinda have to know the rules of equivalent exchange. devils can be super fickle about what they'll accept
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Mar 9, 2023 00:44
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Maybe it's like D&D divinity rules, where gods need mortal worshipers to maintain their powers/existence. It could be the same for the Devils in Chainsaw Man. It's fine if rando devils kill a bunch of people on Earth, but the arrival of a Primal Fear could be an apocalypse situation, and if there's no one around to be afraid, then the Devils can't exist anymore. This is why the Primal Fears have stayed out of mortal affairs and remained in Hell, as doing so could risk their immortal lives. Though, why this has now changed is unclear, as we finally have a Primal Fear arriving on Earth. Maybe they're just big Nostradamus fans?
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Mar 9, 2023 01:01
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summary is a) devils can use means other than dying to exit hell, such as hell devil b) primal fears can in all likelihood bypass contracts with lesser devils due to literally being the scariest things in the world c) primal fears probably don't care about leaving hell for the most part, because they get all the fear they need just hanging out in their personal territories d) something's changed recently that has primal fears on the move, and they're willingly leaving hell through whatever means available to them there's also the possibility that the hands devil in this chapter wasn't the cause of the suicides but somehow summoned through them. it's emerging from the corpse pile like a cocoon
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Mar 9, 2023 01:03
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Flavahbeast posted:Im guessing it's this. the fail devil Ooo Failure Devil has a nice ring to it...
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Mar 9, 2023 01:17
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I wonder if any governments make policy and/or propaganda to make their citizens more afraid of devils with which they're contracted.
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Mar 9, 2023 01:54
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