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mail him to trazyn for safe keeping
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Mar 15, 2023 21:56
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Stasis, which is literally the settings gently caress you button. What's that? Stasis only kinda works on demons? Put the stasis field in another stasis field which I'm 99% sure is a thing in setting.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:02
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Grognan posted:mail him to trazyn for safe keeping This is making me laugh wayyyyyy more than it should. Can see old Traz having a whale of a time with him until he gets too much and chucks him at some tau or something.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:28
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Another primarch for his collection, maybe he can nab the Lion as well.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:30
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Angry Lobster posted:Another primarch for his collection, maybe he can nab the Lion as well. Does he have a primarch in his collection? I thought the large figure in baroque power armor was now pretty reasonably thought to be a custode.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:36
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Telsa Cola posted:Does he have a primarch in his collection? I thought the large figure in baroque power armor was now pretty reasonably thought to be a custode. It might be Dorn, there is also a chance that he has a lost primarch
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Mar 15, 2023 22:42
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Telsa Cola posted:Does he have a primarch in his collection? I thought the large figure in baroque power armor was now pretty reasonably thought to be a custode. He has a perfect clone of Fulgrim he got from Bile in exchange for a massive stock of 3rd Legion geneseed. Specifically the 3rd legion geneseed that went missing during the Great Crusade.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:45
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Yvonmukluk posted:He has a perfect clone of Fulgrim he got from Bile in exchange for a massive stock of 3rd Legion geneseed. Specifically the 3rd legion geneseed that went missing during the Great Crusade. Oh that's right, thanks!
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Mar 15, 2023 22:47
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As if you couldn't mop 3rd legion geneseed off half the galaxy's floors.
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Mar 15, 2023 23:39
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moths posted:As if you couldn't mop 3rd legion geneseed off half the galaxy's floors. Genuinely one of the best off the cuff responses this thread has ever had, and made me spit my tea.
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Mar 16, 2023 00:43
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What we all need to remember is that the Tyranid mind has a capacity for incredible intelligence, and it has been shown time and time again that incredibly intelligent people can be fuckin morons.moths posted:As if you couldn't mop 3rd legion geneseed off half the galaxy's floors. Masterful.
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Mar 16, 2023 01:44
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Brendan Rodgers posted:True, it could even be a form of dark forest strike, a razing of local galaxies while their real civilisation lives in the middle of their sterilised bubble. The real civilization is the Old Ones and this is there umpteenth time doing the same dumb plan that inevitably fucks them over. War and Pieces fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Mar 16, 2023 |
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Mar 16, 2023 01:51
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actually, are there any factions around that have a spare primarch body to turn into a daemonhost that they stuff angron into to control him? say Magnus taking notes from the radical inquisitors in a note of hideous irony
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Mar 16, 2023 05:26
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Attempting to control Angron is the stupidest loving thing imaginable. The closest thing he has to a bro is Lorgar and even he wasn't dumb enough to try.
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Mar 16, 2023 06:38
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Imo angron is just... kinda boring as daemon primarch, maybe the new lore will do stuff for him but he basically stopped being an interesting character half way through the heresy.
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Mar 16, 2023 08:54
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I want someone to kick the demon out of angron and turn him back into a young child, then give him to Kharn so they can walk into the sunset together and he can have a real dad.
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Mar 16, 2023 14:52
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Angron's problem isn't the daemon, it's the Nails. There's a moment where Sanguinius has a vision there he experiences Angron's calm - as he's in the warp time-out chair while his corporeal form reknits. You could theoretically clone his body - without the nails - and stick Primarch Angron's soul in it, leaving Daemon Nailed Angron's body entirely in the hands of Khorne. Redeemed Angron would be a pretty great character. You'd have someone who resents the Emperor but also hates Khorne for ten thousand years of enslavement.
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Mar 16, 2023 15:38
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Angry Lobster posted:Another primarch for his collection, maybe he can nab the Lion as well. Trazyn only collects interesing prizes.
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Mar 16, 2023 16:29
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Angron’s story is actually pretty compelling, it’s just that his arc ended early - in Betrayer. At that point he’d gone through the complete arc: had a chance to be a real person, chance was stolen by Nucerian psycho-surgeons, developed a resentment of the Emperor, his Legion broke themselves to try to get close to him, Horus offered him a life with meaning, it was a trick and Horus is using him just like everyone else, he had one final chance to turn away from the path of being nothing more than a mindless berserker on Nuceria, he refused it, and Lorgar turned him into a daemon to “save his life” (but mostly because Lorgar is a Chaos-worshipping jerk). The end. From that point forward Angron was in his final state, that is to say, a slave to his worst impulses for all eternity.
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Mar 16, 2023 16:42
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Ehh. It was them who decided that Angron ascended has to be AFGHBRGHARGLBARGL all the time. Even actual daemon Ka'Bandha managed to have a bit of an arc, losing most of his power and then recovering by evolving into a more patient hunter. I'd like to see Angron and the daemon primarchs evolve a bit. Maybe have him taking some relish in striking slaver worlds and 'liberating' their populations into his hordes like a grimdark Spartacus. Some materials manage that (even Lorgar understands that the chaos gods lie and scheme all the time and should never be fully trusted), but across so many books and authors, it always gets pasteurized and flanderized intocartoon supervilalin mode with some 90's edginess added for effect. I just finished 'The end and the Death' and liked it a lot, but I think I finally understood why I tend to favor the traitor faction books: they have actual characters. Chaos marines can actually run a gamut from dumb to sneaky to brave to ambitious to cowardly. Which makes them actual characters. Meanwhile, every single loyalist marine is the same drat template: resolute brilliant ever-loyal badass kicking rear end for the Emprah. Not a single one is a bit of a moron, a greedy jerk, or having a legitimate crisis of conscience. Thankfully there are loyal side characters, usually human, that actually add some variety, but it's not always enough. The only meaningful difference between Loken, Fafnir Rann and Corswain is the color of their armor.
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Mar 16, 2023 17:22
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Nah I don’t agree with that. Echoes of Eternity has Amit and Zephon working with very different “I’ve disappointed my father” complexes that express differently and naturally in a genuinely beautiful way, Sigismund has had his arc take him some interesting places, Loken’s been badly mishandled but if you can forgive some terrible writing he’s at least been bashed around into the form he takes in end and the death. Remus Vetanus gets his arc in know no fear even if it’s just a move from normal ultramarine to angry but controlled ultramarine, and Thiel is a fairly interesting character. The characterisation in the heresy stuff is so firmly at the whim of can authors write characters that it’s incredibly variable, and the primarch novels don’t help with that, but there are good loyalist depictions out there that aren’t just is noble stays noble. Even in 40k, good authors are able to do more with the space marines than you’d expect - ADB (of course it’s ADB) makes the third war for Armageddon a story of personal emotional growth for Grimaldus, for example.
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Mar 16, 2023 17:39
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It's also the exact right time and place for "resolute brilliant ever-loyal badass kicking rear end for the Emprah". It's the final stand and most of them have already accepted they will die here, even if we know which ones survive to found their own chapter or whatever, they think that this is it, and they will die to buy even a few more seconds, there's no time for them to think, let alone develop their characters. That should have been done in the previous books.
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Mar 16, 2023 17:49
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lenoon posted:
I left Zephon and Amit out for a reason. They have better arcs, and as you said, anyone written by ADB usually gets some extra development. I'm sure Abnett would have done better in this regard if he'd been able to hold on to characters more consistently through the series instead of parachuting at the start, then the middle, then the end to wrap up everyone's stuff. I think my favorite part of 'The End and the Death' was Dorn being diverted in the warp and ending up in an eternal desert of death and failure. All he wanted was to finally drop responsibility after everything he endured and punch some heads in, and he doesn't get that, and for once it seems that one of the perfect sons -finally- breaks. I assume it's going to just get papered over when things continue later, but I really hope it doesn't.
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Mar 16, 2023 20:46
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Oh Gareth Armstrong honey you do not need to do a Simple Jack voice for this one guy in TDOB
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Mar 16, 2023 21:44
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Sephyr posted:I left Zephon and Amit out for a reason. They have better arcs, and as you said, anyone written by ADB usually gets some extra development.
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Mar 16, 2023 22:00
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Brendan Rodgers posted:It's also the exact right time and place for "resolute brilliant ever-loyal badass kicking rear end for the Emprah". It's the final stand and most of them have already accepted they will die here, even if we know which ones survive to found their own chapter or whatever, they think that this is it, and they will die to buy even a few more seconds, there's no time for them to think, let alone develop their characters. That should have been done in the previous books. Here's the thing. When you know a character is not gonna die, you have to create alternative stakes. And for the stakes to matter, characters need to fail before them. An offer is not super seductive if everyine is able to refuse it. A poison is not intensely deadly if it never kills anyone. And the horror of the final ruin is not that horrible if no virtuous character ever cracks from it. Take the chaos dudes. The ones we know and love? poo poo, they go through the ringer and emerge. Kharn goes from the one level-headed likable bastard in his legion to a fury-filled shell by the loss of his best friend. Abaddon gets dropped out of his self-assured idolizing head by the warping of his father and legion and becomes someone fundally unable to trust. Argel Tal's arc is loving heartbreaking. Even Cyrene goes from well-meaning, empathetic temple-prostitute to a bitter, driven self-made tool against the mad games of divinities and would-be gods. Lucius....ok, yeah, he's the exception that proves the rule. If there is a later series of the post-Heresy, maybe they'll focus on this, show the damage and get more pathos. How the whole thing broke Amit past repair and forged the borserline psycho path of his chapter. Dorn spiraling into the Iron Cage incident. Maybe what breaks the Best Boys ever is not the battle but the day after. Except they pretty much already are recognizable as 'modern' ideal warriors of their factions, so...final form achieved, I guess, and it was the first form all along. There's about 6 incidents in the last book of "Oh no, Corswain/Loken is trapped and about to be killed! It looks so hopeless!" Only for another named character to sping in and behead the baddie in the nick of time. It's not really Abnett's fault: these books need a quota of action, they are big names, and they also can't die, so yeah, filler. But I wish better characters were getting the spotlight on the loyalist side.
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Mar 17, 2023 03:58
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The loyalists' stories tend to be spread over huge multi-book arcs, which sucks. Like, it took five books for me to understand that Dorn was mad at Sigismund for having his fortune told? Meanwhile the chaos characters' arcs are typically contained in a single book. They need to be foiled before the next book, so they get a beginning, middle, and end - while the heroes just kinda play their one note.
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Mar 17, 2023 05:23
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moths posted:The loyalists' stories tend to be spread over huge multi-book arcs, which sucks. Like, it took five books for me to understand that Dorn was mad at Sigismund for having his fortune told? Oh, I learned that in a single short story early in the series. Skill issue.
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Mar 17, 2023 09:27
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moths posted:The loyalists' stories tend to be spread over huge multi-book arcs, which sucks. Like, it took five books for me to understand that Dorn was mad at Sigismund for having his fortune told? Thanks, I never got that about Sigismund, like what was Dorn so mad about??? Syncopated fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Mar 17, 2023 |
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Mar 17, 2023 10:02
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moths posted:The loyalists' stories tend to be spread over huge multi-book arcs, which sucks. Like, it took five books for me to understand that Dorn was mad at Sigismund for having his fortune told? This is a good point I had forgotten. Being a cameo across several books does make for a choppy development. It doesn't help that sometimes even when they do get a proper full book, it's not a veru good one (Lord, Angel Exterminatus was a bad joke)
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Mar 17, 2023 10:35
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Syncopated posted:Thanks, I never got that about Sigismund, like what was Dorn so mad about??? I only learned this reading the wiki
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Mar 17, 2023 15:26
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Syncopated posted:Thanks, I never got that about Sigismund, like what was Dorn so mad about??? It wasn't having his fortune told, it was choosing glory over duty.
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Mar 17, 2023 15:47
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Yeah it was because Sigismund disobeyed Dorn My favourite loyalists are tge Iron Hands because they're all a bunch of traumatized wackos
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Mar 17, 2023 15:53
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specifically the fortune kind of implied that if sigismund had taken command of the fleet he’d have died but might have done significantly more to stop the traitors, maybe even blunting the heresy in its tracks
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Mar 17, 2023 15:56
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How many people are aware that Vulkan is a perpetual?
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Mar 17, 2023 16:17
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DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:specifically the fortune kind of implied that if sigismund had taken command of the fleet he’d have died but might have done significantly more to stop the traitors, maybe even blunting the heresy in its tracks Wait, things would've been better if he HAD followed orders? What was his motivation not to do so? I definitely skipped whatever this story was from, but I gathered the gist of "he disobeyed daddy based on a prophecy" from the siege and pre-siege books.
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Mar 17, 2023 16:53
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I’m re-reading Legion, it’s been a while, but John Grammy seems pretty capable psyker-wise, is this a trait he loses before “the end and the death”?
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Mar 17, 2023 17:02
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Miguel Prado posted:I’m re-reading Legion, it’s been a while, but John Grammy seems pretty capable psyker-wise, is this a trait he loses before “the end and the death”? His psyker powers are mostly reading people and being a really convincing actor.
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Mar 17, 2023 17:10
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Arc Hammer posted:How many people are aware that Vulkan is a perpetual? Few enough that I wish you'd puy a spoiler tag on that I guess.
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Mar 17, 2023 17:15
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wiegieman posted:It wasn't having his fortune told, it was choosing glory over duty. I put a question mark there because it was unclear, but I think it underscores my main point: I read six consecutive books featuring the Sigismund/Dorn beef and wasn't given enough information to know what it was about. But I got full and satisfying stories for Abbadon, lil' Horus, Peturabo, some random Death Guard guy, etc. It seems safe to say that if you're reading a BL book and the character is interesting, they're a villain.
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Mar 17, 2023 18:06
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