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she has the knowledge of what the celestial dragons and wg are actually like because all of the vegapunks do. if she's banking on their trustworthiness this isn't a revolt- it's a tragic farce.
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Mar 15, 2023 19:31
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| # ? May 25, 2024 07:41 |
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Ah so that's why she's greed and not sloth
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Mar 15, 2023 19:32
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Maybe she is going to bodyjack Boney
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Mar 15, 2023 19:35
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Yeah YorkVegapunk/StellaVegapunk could basically be a repeat of Squardo/Whitebeard with York doing some incredibly dumb betrayal stuff based on vague influence by someone from the WG
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Mar 15, 2023 19:41
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Well done mystery! Quite satisfying! CharlestonJew, I'm not going to quote the post so as to not spoil it for others, but I think you get credit for calling it way back at the start of the mystery. I thought it was plausible at the time, but I never actually thought about her again when we were reassessing the mystery. Good on Oda for having enough plausible red herrings that it was truly surprising who the traitor was, and yet it makes total sense! York doesn't want to do all this running around saving the world poo poo. She just wants to sell out and live the cushiest life. It wasn't Vegapunks "evil" that betrayed him. It was his "greed". There's a part of Vegapunk that just wants to give up and be pampered and let the rest of the world burn. That makes perfect sense. The question is if York has a plausible plan to actually live it up on Mariejoa, but all the Vegapunks are geniuses and they have access to crazy technology so presumably she has a plan. I imagine the plan involved luring out a Gorosei for some reason? Who knows! I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next! Edit: Bisse posted:Yeah YorkVegapunk/StellaVegapunk could basically be a repeat of Squardo/Whitebeard with York doing some incredibly dumb betrayal stuff based on vague influence by someone from the WG Eiba fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 19:47
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It would definitely be much more exciting if York has a clever and realistic plan!
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Mar 15, 2023 19:49
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i am surprised that oda reused the water 7 twist, though.
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Mar 15, 2023 19:49
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hatty posted:Ah so that's why she's greed and not sloth In retrospect it makes sense that the Vegapunk of Greed wouldn’t be satisfied with just eating, pooping, and sleeping. I am curious how Oda will explain the inconsistencies with the traitor mystery. Like how there was no one in the control room when the dome went down, the Seraphims not listening to York’s orders, or York apparently being in two places at once. RatHat fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 19:54
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i am surprised that oda reused the water 7 twist, though. Kaku isn't actually Usopp, FYI
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Mar 15, 2023 19:57
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So, York turned to stone in 1075, and then before anyone could get any grasp on the situatuon, S-Snake blew up the bridge seperating her and the Usopp/Franky/Lillith. I wonder if S-Snake can passively remove petrification with just a thought, or if she has to physically touch them. Looking back at that chapter, S-Snake remained on the bridge for a few moments after the rest of them fell down, which would have given her ample chance to un-petrify York either way. I'm not sure why she would need to establish an alibi right now anyway, unless this was just a way to seperate herself from Lillith so she could go on to murder Shaka.
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Mar 15, 2023 20:00
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Bisse posted:It would definitely be much more exciting if York has a clever and realistic plan! One interesting part of the plan is that CP0 was ordered to kill her too. The Government doesn't know that she's the mole. She might be trying to do some stealthy body-swap shenanigans in the chaos. RatHat posted:In retrospect it makes sense that the Vegapunk of Greed wouldn’t be satisfied with just eating, pooping, and sleeping. I think Oda did a pretty good job with this mystery. Very hard to guess ahead of time, but makes a lot of sense in retrospect. mabels big day posted:So, York turned to stone in 1075, and then before anyone could get any grasp on the situatuon, S-Snake blew up the bridge seperating her and the Usopp/Franky/Lillith. I wonder if S-Snake can passively remove petrification with just a thought, or if she has to physically touch them. Looking back at that chapter, S-Snake remained on the bridge for a few moments after the rest of them fell down, which would have given her ample chance to un-petrify York either way. I'm not sure why she would need to establish an alibi right now anyway, unless this was just a way to seperate herself from Lillith so she could go on to murder Shaka. Eiba fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 20:46
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Eiba posted:Well done mystery! Quite satisfying! Yeah that’s right, I’m a goddamned genius
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Mar 15, 2023 20:56
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Good chap. Kidnapping the CP agents is a pretty weird step that hasn't been explained yet but maybe shows that there is a well-thought-out plan here and York isn't just doing dumb poo poo. The only explanation I can think of is to force the WG to escalate their response, until we get to where we are today. In which case, the body swap plan someone mentioned makes the most sense. She probably told them Vegapunk was killing them. It could also be that York never identified herself and the WG doesn't know who they were dealing with. Either way, nice job Oda. I couldn't figure it out but it's obvious in hindsight. edit Did anyone else get faked out by the "3 months ago" text being on the panel with Bonny and thinking we were going to see the flashback, but confused because it was obviously more than 3 months ago? At this point I almost want Oda to just never show us the full flashback like with Kaido, gently caress it no more flashbacks, just teases Wii Spawn Camper fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Mar 15, 2023 |
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Mar 15, 2023 20:58
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Judge and Caesar make a beautiful couple, very happy for them.
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Mar 15, 2023 22:03
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So the only real inconsistency now is why the seraphim won't obey the other VPs since their rampage order presumably came from York. I suppose York could've just said something like "I order all of you to ignore orders from VPs other than me for 24 hours" or something. It's unclear if that would work. My money is on York's plan falling apart because she never expected an elder star to actually come to Egghead personally, who will then override the seraphim and totally erase her combat advantage.
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Mar 16, 2023 00:01
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LanceKing2200 posted:So the only real inconsistency now is why the seraphim won't obey the other VPs since their rampage order presumably came from York. I suppose York could've just said something like "I order all of you to ignore orders from VPs other than me for 24 hours" or something. It's unclear if that would work. If my theory is correct, her plan is based on the assumption that an Elder Star WOULD come to Egghead personally. She knows how the command hierarchy for the Seraphim works, after all.
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Mar 16, 2023 00:10
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LanceKing2200 posted:So the only real inconsistency now is why the seraphim won't obey the other VPs since their rampage order presumably came from York. I suppose York could've just said something like "I order all of you to ignore orders from VPs other than me for 24 hours" or something. It's unclear if that would work. What inconsistency? We see with Franky (or during the Marineford Arc) that you can retain consciousness while petrified if you're not completely stoned. York could have just told S-Snake to petrify her enough to fool everyone else into thinkin' she'd been statue-fied without completely petrifying her so she wasn't knocked out. Also I'm pretty sure that the plan was for one of the Gorosei to come, that's why she kept escalating the threat by capturing all the Cipher Pols who came.
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Mar 16, 2023 01:40
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If the Elder Stars were hellbent on retaining access to Punk Records (as seems to be the case considering they're not calling a buster call on it), York seems to be the most sensible of the Vegapunks to retain because all she wants is good food to eat and comfortable toilets to take dumps in.
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Mar 16, 2023 03:11
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and also to murder all the other vegapunks. pobody's nerfect!
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Mar 16, 2023 03:15
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:What inconsistency? What I mean is that if the seraphims are rampaging just because York ordered them to, then (presumably) any other Vegapunk would be able to get them to stop, since they all share the same authority level. Either York gave some kind of un-overridable order like I said above, or York actually messed with them at some point in development to secretly give herself higher authority.
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Mar 16, 2023 03:21
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  The Usopp joke
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Mar 16, 2023 03:39
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I think this arc has reached the point where there's too much going on at once, and I'm not really sure if this betrayal storyline is necessary. We're currently juggling the Straw Hats interacting with the Vegapunks, CP 0, Kizaru and the elder, Sentomaru, the Seraphim, Stussy stuff, Sanji's new power-up, all these different backstory revelations regarding Ohara and the ancient kingdom, whatever the deal is with Punk Records, Bonney with Kuma's memories, and the cutaways to Blackbeard/Law/Garp and Shanks/Kidd/Elbaf stuff. There are probably things I forget as well. I deffo prefer it to the slow pace of Wano or the end of Dressrosa, but this betrayal stuff would probably work better in an arc that wasn't so busy and if we'd gotten to know the principal players more, especially as York has barely had any screen time. Then again, this is Oda, and I'm sure he'll make me care in time.
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Mar 16, 2023 03:56
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LanceKing2200 posted:What I mean is that if the seraphims are rampaging just because York ordered them to, then (presumably) any other Vegapunk would be able to get them to stop, since they all share the same authority level. No, the whole point is that orders of the same authority can’t be overwritten. That’s how they knew the person who gave the orders was a Vegapunk in the first place
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Mar 16, 2023 04:15
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LanceKing2200 posted:So the only real inconsistency now is why the seraphim won't obey the other VPs since their rampage order presumably came from York. I suppose York could've just said something like "I order all of you to ignore orders from VPs other than me for 24 hours" or something. It's unclear if that would work. And my money is on York's plan requiring an elder star. What she did seemed calculated to get their attention. She basically told them that Egghead was another Ohara. But this one with crazy-advanced weapons that were under Vegapunks' control that only the Gorosei could override. DeadBonesBrook posted:I think this arc has reached the point where there's too much going on at once, and I'm not really sure if this betrayal storyline is necessary. We're currently juggling the Straw Hats interacting with the Vegapunks, CP 0, Kizaru and the elder, Sentomaru, the Seraphim, Stussy stuff, Sanji's new power-up, all these different backstory revelations regarding Ohara and the ancient kingdom, whatever the deal is with Punk Records, Bonney with Kuma's memories, and the cutaways to Blackbeard/Law/Garp and Shanks/Kidd/Elbaf stuff. There are probably things I forget as well. Obviously we don't know where this is going, but I'm anticipating York being a villain. I imagine we'll get more characterization for her now that she's openly the antagonist here.
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Mar 16, 2023 04:16
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im wondering if the endgame here is that saturn overrides the orders of the seraphim and ultimately kills york to illustrate just how closed off being a celestial dragon is. that seems like a likely reason the seraphim have that priority illustrated to us and why narratively saturn is coming here. that or luffys gonna punch him really hard.
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Mar 16, 2023 04:23
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I don't think York expects to be rewarded for what she's doing, or for the Celestial Dragons to just open their doors to her. That may be what's going on, but I don't think anyone could expect a confession that they were trying to overthrow the government but they're stopping now to endear themselves to said government. If the knowledge of Ohara gets countries erased, admitting to having that knowledge as a private citizen is very obviously not going to immediately be in your best interest. York captured the CP agents- she didn't talk to them and send them back with evidence. She didn't let the government know what she was up to. CP0 had orders to kill all the Vegapunks. No exceptions. York is on their assassination list. She clearly doesn't expect Saturn to show up and give her a pat on the back. Maybe she thinks she can reveal something or give them some knowledge that will make them grateful to her, but simply revealing the crimes of the other Vegapunks seems like a pretty week thing to offer, and if she thought it was enough she could have openly offered it already and begun negotiating with them remotely.
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Mar 16, 2023 04:30
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It’s interesting how much One Piece makes use of betrayals/moles as plot twists, and also interesting how little moral judgment is generally attached to it. Which makes it weird when Jimbei acts so disapproving about Drake betraying Kaidou, because Jimbei himself has betrayed two different factions. Even in that case, though, the narrative is on Drake’s side. The only time I can think of that a betrayal is treated as really morally shocking (not counting sacrificing one’s own subordinates) is Blackbeard killing Thatch. But this is also a bit odd, because Blackbeard did pretty much exactly what Bege tries to do to Pekoms (killing a crewmate who’s in the way of a convoluted path to becoming Pirate King). So it’s interesting to see why Stella is so disgusted with York in this chapter. It’s not so much that part of his own brain is trying to kill him. It’s that she’s trying to kill him in order to become a World Noble, of all things.
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Mar 16, 2023 04:32
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It is 100% Oda's style for her to of planned this revenge while pooping endlessly so the others won't notice.
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Mar 16, 2023 04:33
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Maybe one of the unrevealed seraphim has the Ope-Ope Fruit ability and we're going to see Doflamingo's mind swap plan in action 
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Mar 16, 2023 04:56
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"let's see, memories of pooping after eating forty six quesaritos and a cookie that looked kinda funny... i think i'll just not log that one" said the island or whatever, deleting the memory of York talking to Akainu directly.
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Mar 16, 2023 04:57
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MorningMoon posted:"let's see, memories of pooping after eating forty six quesaritos and a cookie that looked kinda funny... i think i'll just not log that one" said the island or whatever, deleting the memory of York talking to Akainu directly. Please don't doxx me. I was having a bad afternoon.
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Mar 16, 2023 05:21
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Can Of Worms posted:Maybe one of the unrevealed seraphim has the Ope-Ope Fruit ability and we're going to see Doflamingo's mind swap plan in action maybe the current york is s-flamingo or s-crocodile using mr 2s fruit
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Mar 16, 2023 05:35
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anime was right posted:maybe the current york is s-flamingo or s-crocodile using mr 2s fruit I feel like it would overcomplicate the story to have yet another hidden mastermind behind everything. York herself already fills the role of one of Vegapunk’s errant creations bringing about his downfall, and so far everything she’s done fits both her capabilities and motivations. Also, while it was understandably overshadowed by the traitor reveal, I did like that panel of Sanji just no-selling that punch to the face. He seems to have grown remarkably accustomed to his new superpowers, hope that doesn’t backfire on him.
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Mar 16, 2023 06:11
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anime was right posted:
Still kills me that this is an actual thing in this series, not just a one-off joke
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Mar 16, 2023 06:50
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Silver2195 posted:It’s interesting how much One Piece makes use of betrayals/moles as plot twists, and also interesting how little moral judgment is generally attached to it. Which makes it weird when Jimbei acts so disapproving about Drake betraying Kaidou, because Jimbei himself has betrayed two different factions. Even in that case, though, the narrative is on Drake’s side. The only time I can think of that a betrayal is treated as really morally shocking (not counting sacrificing one’s own subordinates) is Blackbeard killing Thatch. But this is also a bit odd, because Blackbeard did pretty much exactly what Bege tries to do to Pekoms (killing a crewmate who’s in the way of a convoluted path to becoming Pirate King). Jimbei tried to leave Big Mom's crew the proper way, but she blatantly threatened the lives of his companions with her stupid roulette thing. Jimbei probably would have accepted if it had just been his limbs/life at stake but when someone's trynna keep you in against your will, leaving is less betrayal and more the only option. As for the two different factions, I dunno what the other one is. The Marines with his whole refusal to fight against Whitebeard? Cause the entire reason Jimbei joined the Warlords was to build a better future for Merforlk/Fishmen, and Whitebeard was one of the biggest stopgaps preventing wanton slavery of his people. From Jimbei's perspective, the World Government picking a fight with Whitebeard was a betrayal of the entire reason he worked with the Marines to begin with. It's not like the World Government was unaware of what would happen to Fishman Island without Whitebeard's protection. I think Jimbei looks down on Drake more cause he (mistakenly) thinks Drake is just trynna leave Kaido's army to save his own skin in the middle of an outright war. Of course, we the readers know that Drake was an undercover Marine, but Jimbei didn't know that. Even Zoro was unwilling to accept Drake initially. Also Bege offing Pekoms was initially treated as shocking, especially since Pekmons was trying to lie to protect the Straw Hats after hearing about how they saved Zou (as was therefore sorta on their side). I think it also has to do with who's being betrayed. Big Mom doesn't really hesitate to betray her own allies (see: Judge, that guy who couldn't attend her tea party). So nobody's really judging Bege for betraying Big Mom. The Marines are cops and gently caress cops. Whitebeard, however, is famously known as the guy who protects the weak and innocent and would never betray his sons, so Blackbeard killing Thatch is a Big Deal because the Whitebeard Pirates are pretty much a huge adopted family.
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Mar 16, 2023 07:09
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After the arc: LUFFY: So do you poop? VEGAPUNK: *single tear falls down face* Not anymore...
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Mar 16, 2023 07:13
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hope Neo mads goes well, looks like they're having a great time
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Mar 16, 2023 07:16
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Silver2195 posted:Was not expecting that. She's supposed to embody Vegapunk's greed. Or at least that trait is supposed to be emphasized a more than others. What's currently more powerful than being a Celestial Dragon without having to be some crazy powerful fighting devil fruit user? It makes sense plus I COMPLETELY forgot that York existed at all just introduced then that was it
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Mar 16, 2023 07:50
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unlike some other arcs pretty much everything going on in this arc is cool so it can totally get away with having a lot going on, at least for now
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Mar 16, 2023 07:55
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Mar 16, 2023 09:03
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