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Pootybutt posted:I never got the argument about GW having the least characterization or "fun moments" between the cast, I think ppl mistake the generally more serious tone right after 4, the focus on The Mission, w a lack of that Very much agree with this, people who think Part 5 is "missing the fun of earlier parts" or whatever are likely coming straight off of Part 4, which I think screws with how they read Part 5. It's an extremely different vibe, and people seem to have trouble grasping that, so they rail on it for not being something it was never trying to be. It's not going to have as many small little character moments because it's not a leisurely story taking place over the summer in a sleepy little Japanese town, but the ones it does have are all extremely memorable. Legitimately, if a friend who was 100% unfamiliar with Jojo asked me to show them a single out of context scene to try and convince them to get into it, it would be the torture dance.
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Mar 23, 2023 22:52
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TriffTshngo posted:Very much agree with this, people who think Part 5 is "missing the fun of earlier parts" or whatever are likely coming straight off of Part 4, which I think screws with how they read Part 5. It's an extremely different vibe, and people seem to have trouble grasping that, so they rail on it for not being something it was never trying to be. It's not going to have as many small little character moments because it's not a leisurely story taking place over the summer in a sleepy little Japanese town, but the ones it does have are all extremely memorable. Legitimately, if a friend who was 100% unfamiliar with Jojo asked me to show them a single out of context scene to try and convince them to get into it, it would be the torture dance. Different vibes, plus there are still lots of fun character moments in the action itself, or stuff that just comes off as funny. Mista screaming GOLD EXPERIENCE for Giorno, or his many iconic self-shootings. The way Abbachio is always like that around Giorno. Fugo swearing loyalty to him in embarrassing sincerity as he looks like he's gonna die. The snowboard tech. Narancia's bs carries whole episodes. Lots of stuff, slightly less in the vein of *The Morioh boys squat around a pool, discussing farts* and more like *and Polnareff kicked sand in the innocent beggars' faces before schooling their friend on cool vengeance speeches*
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Mar 23, 2023 23:59
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I think the fact that so many people are mentioning Mista, a character I always found obnoxious, as the best one says it all about how I feel about part 5. The character I liked the most was Abacchio because he was totally right about Giorno. Other than that they just failed to resonate with me, even if the fights were cool.
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Mar 24, 2023 00:06
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Part four is significantly elevated by having maybe the best villain in all of Jojo. The main cast is good and we get both Jotaro and Joseph, but Yoshikage Kira truly elevates part 4 to a higher level.
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Mar 24, 2023 01:07
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Part four is significantly elevated by having maybe the best villain in all of Jojo. The main cast is good and we get both Jotaro and Joseph, but Yoshikage Kira truly elevates part 4 to a higher level. The low-key, semi slice-of-life aspects (I think just about any story can be enhanced by having characters just hang out for at least a chapter or two) and my favourite villain in pretty much anything ever are what make it so good even in the absence of a standout set-piece on the level of the train fight or the Ghiaccio encounter, so 100% agreed on that.
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Mar 24, 2023 01:23
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Part four is significantly elevated by having maybe the best villain in all of Jojo. The main cast is good and we get both Jotaro and Joseph, but Yoshikage Kira truly elevates part 4 to a higher level. kira is not a good villain and even if he were he still wouldnt be the actual best villain, funny valentine. part 5 is the best and part 7 is just barely in second. loving part 9 so far
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Mar 24, 2023 03:21
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Paper Lion posted:kira is not a good villain what the gently caress
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Mar 24, 2023 03:44
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Neo_Crimson posted:what the gently caress A lot of people struggle to take Kira and Diavolo seriously because we don't get 40 episodes of them being invincible (Kira, leaving no evidence for 15 years. Diavolo leaving no traces of his identity nearly his entire life), we join the story when they will eventually fall and be defeated
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Mar 24, 2023 03:59
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Paper Lion posted:kira is not a good villain Neo_Crimson posted:what the gently caress
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Mar 24, 2023 04:10
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Paper Lion posted:kira is not a good villain huh???????? why.
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Mar 24, 2023 04:26
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I think Pucci is easily my favorite Jojo villain. The man loving Struggles more than any of the others and his constant every sharpening resolve is a great mirror to the usual Jojo shtick to the point he becomes a Joestar by becoming this dead weight on all of Fate/Gravity.
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Mar 24, 2023 04:44
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JJBA has many great villains and a couple very weak ones.
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Mar 24, 2023 05:00
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Even the weak ones still have great designs to prop them up. Like Diavolo is whatever, but him and King Crimson look cool as hell so evens out a bit.
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Mar 24, 2023 05:09
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And JJL's is 89 years old.
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Mar 24, 2023 05:38
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Diavolo is the weakest villain of them all in my opinion (not counting Part 8, since it doesn't really have a villain, just a final antagonist sort of). King Crimson is a great stand, and Doppio is awesome, but Diavolo as the Boss just has no real impact or personality apart from not wanting to be identified by anyone. For me the thing that makes a jojo villain lies in whatever mission statement they give that is driving them along. For Pucchi, it's his concept of heaven as the gravity of fate. For Valentine, it's about taking the first napkin. For Kira, he just wants to live quietly. Harder to pinpoint Dio's especially across all parts. I don't want to just say it's world domination because that's a little simple. But Dio's personality is strong enough that a simple goal like that suits him. I don't know what you say the equivalent for Diavolo is. Prior to the revelation of the Requiem stand concept, I don't really know what he wanted apart from selling drugs and not being known about. It's just not a strong foundation to build a good villain on.
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Mar 24, 2023 06:31
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Gully Foyle posted:Harder to pinpoint Dio's especially across all parts. gently caress Jojo. Also that Jojo. But especially Jojo. But especially Jojo
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Mar 24, 2023 06:34
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diavolo was probably correct to be afraid, because anonymity was all that protected him from some random stand user assassinating him. the best defense against unknown stand users is to not fight them. (the second best defense is, of course, to transform your tooth into a jellyfish and have it absorb urine.) unfortunately, this sensible course of action did not make him a particularly interesting character.
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Mar 24, 2023 06:41
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Electric Phantasm posted:Even the weak ones still have great designs to prop them up. Both Diavolo and Giorno are a little boring and lack personality compared to other characters in their own part. The supporting cast however is great and there's lots of great individual moments between them. Buccarati is great, his crew is great, Doppio is great. The assassin team has lots of cool personality and flair for the most part. But Giorno himself is bit of a stick in the mud who only really interacts with people while fighting and just disappears into the background the rest of the time. Except for jellyfish I guess. And Diavolo isn't much better. Adding Doppio was the best thing Araki could have done though because he does make up for a lot. Still, It kinda sucks when the main protagonist and antagonist are kinda boring. But it's only relative to some of the other parts where Jojo and the main villain have lots of personality. Like compare them to Jolyne and Pucci and it's no contest. There's no such thing as a bad part though, Jojo is always good. It's just the really good Jojos set a very high bar that's hard to beat.
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Mar 24, 2023 06:49
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Gully Foyle posted:Harder to pinpoint Dio's especially across all parts. I don't want to just say it's world domination because that's a little simple. But Dio's personality is strong enough that a simple goal like that suits him.
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Mar 24, 2023 06:51
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Diavolo is only saved by having Doppio, and I believe Diavolo bleeding out and dying in the colloseum would've led to a much better final fight. Doppio, filled with rage, wouldn't have allowed for a final arc to be "walking down the street".
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Mar 24, 2023 06:52
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Vookatos posted:Diavolo is only saved by having Doppio, and I believe Diavolo bleeding out and dying in the colloseum would've led to a much better final fight. Doppio, filled with rage, wouldn't have allowed for a final arc to be "walking down the street". Doppio getting one hell of a battlefield promotion and having a few minutes to learn how to use King Crimson would be a lot of fun to read
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Mar 24, 2023 06:57
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Vookatos posted:Diavolo is only saved by having Doppio, and I believe Diavolo bleeding out and dying in the colloseum would've led to a much better final fight. Doppio, filled with rage, wouldn't have allowed for a final arc to be "walking down the street". That would have been a way better resolution to the body swapping thing for sure.
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Mar 24, 2023 06:58
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I would not buy the explanation of how Silver Chariot Requiem works coming from Doppio
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Mar 24, 2023 06:59
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DIO determines that the reason the Joestars continue to oppose his every movie is not because he's a huge rear end in a top hat, but because of [fate] and so dreams up a whole bunch of bullshit involving rhinoceros beetles and the state of Florida with which he entrusts his new best friend, a 16 year-old barely out of seminary, to achieve.RareAcumen posted:I would not buy the explanation of how Silver Chariot Requiem works coming from Doppio I don't buy the explanation of how Silver Chariot Requiem works coming from Araki and he wrote the loving thing.
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Mar 24, 2023 07:11
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Wonder of U’s pursuit was just a better Chariot Requiem battle
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Mar 24, 2023 07:20
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Wonder of U’s pursuit was just a better Chariot Requiem battle Fair
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Mar 24, 2023 09:04
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Paper Lion posted:kira is not a good villain one more for the pile. what the gently caress anyway, i'm not saying vento is good or not, cos I don't really care that hard about it either way but i do genuinely wonder what percentage of va has no personality/is stilted is from people who read the original and dreadful english fan translation and never read it again that english version was low key genuinely worse than duwang. it had better english in grammatical/sentence structure standards but made poo poo up, duwang is bad english but generally accurate.
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Mar 24, 2023 11:52
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Vookatos posted:Diavolo is only saved by having Doppio, and I believe Diavolo bleeding out and dying in the colloseum would've led to a much better final fight. Doppio, filled with rage, wouldn't have allowed for a final arc to be "walking down the street". nah I still say that sounds lame, for the simple reason that who gives a flying gently caress about Doppio? Not one member of the cast, that's who. Doppio wasn't the main villain, Bruno didn't have beef w him, so what does struggling against and beating the poo poo out of, to his eyes, some rando kid(which he wouldn't do anyway) mean to him? Nothing. What does it do for Giorno to just switch the target of his animosity all part, arbitrarily last minute?
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Mar 24, 2023 12:47
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Josuke Higashikata posted:one more for the pile. The first time I read any appreciable amount of VA was through the good translation, I just think Araki had a rare miss with the premise and structure of that part
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Mar 24, 2023 13:04
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The anime patches a lot of holes for part 5. It and 3 are the only parts I haven't read, but from what I heard at the time from friends who had, Davidpro smoothed over a lot of what people still found rough about it even with a good translation. Also adding new stuff like scenes of La Squadra hanging out together and feeling more like a unit than they did originally.
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Mar 24, 2023 13:15
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I wonder if Dio’s part 1 plot ever made it to any history books.
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Mar 24, 2023 13:17
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Josuke Higashikata posted:anyway, i'm not saying vento is good or not, cos I don't really care that hard about it either way but i do genuinely wonder what percentage of va has no personality/is stilted is from people who read the original and dreadful english fan translation and never read it again Like some concrete examples are Pt2 Caesar’s death vs the deaths in Pt5, the earlier was much more impactful and really hurt whereas in Pt5, meh. Or Torture Dance and Piss Jellyfish are funny jokes but not nearly as funny as Polnareff’s quest for a clean toilet, or the entire group playing along in faking Avdol’s death, or basically any time Old Joseph opens his dumb loud engrish mouth or flies a plane. It just comes down to, the jokes and character moments where fewer and Simply Just Not As Good. Thinking about Pt6, it also has a even more serious tone and had even less wacky hijinks, but does everything just so much better (except for the ultramax security bit) and feels a lot more self confident. I just think Araki’s writing style was evolving and Pt5 was him trying something new and making mistakes along the way. Bisse fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Mar 24, 2023 |
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Mar 24, 2023 13:44
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Pootybutt posted:nah I still say that sounds lame, for the simple reason that who gives a flying gently caress about Doppio? Not one member of the cast, that's who. Doppio wasn't the main villain, Bruno didn't have beef w him, so what does struggling against and beating the poo poo out of, to his eyes, some rando kid(which he wouldn't do anyway) mean to him? Nothing. What does it do for Giorno to just switch the target of his animosity all part, arbitrarily last minute?
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Mar 24, 2023 13:48
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Pootybutt posted:nah I still say that sounds lame, for the simple reason that who gives a flying gently caress about Doppio? Not one member of the cast, that's who. Doppio wasn't the main villain, Bruno didn't have beef w him, so what does struggling against and beating the poo poo out of, to his eyes, some rando kid(which he wouldn't do anyway) mean to him? Nothing. What does it do for Giorno to just switch the target of his animosity all part, arbitrarily last minute? Sure, but I don't care about Diavolo and I do care about Doppio
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Mar 24, 2023 16:31
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Diavolo and Doppio being in separate bodies could have lead to some fun shenanigans if it meant Epitaph and King Crimson were separated. Like Diavolo trying to get some future predictions from a dying Doppio or if Diavolo was stuck with Epitaph and had to reckon with a bad future he had no way to erase
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Mar 24, 2023 16:36
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Josuke Higashikata posted:one more for the pile. This was the case for me at least. Watching the anime definitely helped my view of part 5, but in the end I still put it in the same place ranking wise.
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Mar 24, 2023 17:19
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MonsterEnvy posted:Part 5 takes place over like 5 days at most. So it makes sense it would feel fast paced. 9 days. from March 29 to April 6
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Mar 24, 2023 17:38
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bobjr posted:I wonder if Dio’s part 1 plot ever made it to any history books. I feel like that whole thing just gets written off as "plague took an isolated village".
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Mar 24, 2023 19:23
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Boss-u~ should have taken Trish away entirely to be disposed of instead of leaving her hand and maybe Bruno would have just shrugged it off as being the Boss-u's~ ominous stand power and then maybe he could have continued hiding like he liked
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Mar 24, 2023 20:28
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Vookatos posted:This all makes sense, but if switching villains would lead to a better confrontation than soul-sniffing and walking down the street I'd be ok with turtle Polnareff becoming the villain. it wouldn't, i mean jojo made goin down that drat street p epic. where's the burn here, what was Crazy D is Unbreakable but *stands in a street, goes in a house* heavy downpour warning is just *lying still in a courtyard*
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Mar 24, 2023 21:00
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