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Mostly played GBO2 before the Zeta era stuff got too commonplace. I just loved playing the Hildolfr and being that sniping rear end in a top hat who hangs way back. While you'd be hilariously vulnerable in many places due to the hull shape and elevated terrain, it'd sometimes give you the edge because of its shortness.
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Apr 16, 2023 04:27
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Gaius Marius posted:Fédération vs Zeon remains the undisputed champ Man, I loved that game, and Gundam vs Zeta Gundam. I wish they'd just kept making games in that format, it was such a good match for how the shows are structured. You can do a little AU stuff without having to get super deep in the weeds like SRW games do.
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Apr 16, 2023 04:46
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Didn't they evolve into the extreme vs series that's mostly stuck in arcades and PSP?
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Apr 16, 2023 04:53
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Very different in execution.
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Apr 16, 2023 04:54
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Tae posted:It had a high peak for a game that had no crossplay, the problem is in part because their updates for a live service have been sparse and they pick suits like Hyperion instead of the Aerial I really like their off-beat picks for suits, because gently caress, I would NOT have thought of including the goddamn Mahiroo, but... yeah, they are kinda leaving money on the table by doing that instead of going for the famous stuff, which right now is definitely the Aerial and other Witch suits. Really guys, the season that you launched in more countries with that coincided with the launch of the second cour of the new popular Gundam show was when you did the Dynames and a 00-themed season? That's like, double-stupid, the Dynames and Aerial have the exact same gimmick, you wasted both your prime Aerial window and the ability to use the Aerial in the future!
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Apr 16, 2023 05:00
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Azubah posted:Didn't they evolve into the extreme vs series that's mostly stuck in arcades and PSP? No, the Gundam Battle series was different than VS. I did a huge roundup of the Gundam games on PSP and Vita a few years ago, let me haul that up.
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Apr 16, 2023 05:15
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I hate GBO2 with all my heart. It feels like such utter slow unplayable garbage after playing the Extreme Versus games. Yeah I know they're totally different genres, but one feels like absolute trash to control while one is one of the smoothest experiences for movement out there at the moment. Movement in Evolution and the guns feel real good, it's just as said before the game is super lacking in flavor and the player experience suuuuccckkkks due to the bad progression and bad round setups. I played a ton of it in beta and on launch but I don't see myself ever going back at this point
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Apr 16, 2023 05:23
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Midjack posted:No, the Gundam Battle series was different than VS. I did a huge roundup of the Gundam games on PSP and Vita a few years ago, let me haul that up. Looks like that post has slipped into archives. Briefly: VS series are fast-paced brawlers with 2.5 dimensions (you can jump and a few units can fly briefly but you're generally on the ground though there are hills and buildings to jump on). Units generally can't be improved, you have the full moveset available from the start. Each unit generally feels fairly distinct. No story, just fight. Gundam Battle is still arcadey, but you can customize your units with XP and unlock skills and attribute improvements for your pilot. You generally start with a grunt suit and can unlock more powerful suits in a variety of ways as you play through the campaigns in the game. Units can feel a little samey early on, though the developers lavish some attention on the big-name units to make them feel different. Definitely not a simulation like the Battletech pods though.
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Apr 16, 2023 05:29
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I've been watching Gundam in release order, picking up off from Zeta Gundam that I had watched years ago. ZZ: I'm not sure why people seem to dislike this one iirc. I thought it did start off weird, but it seemed to just get better as it goes along, and Judau owns. Char's Counterattack: Yeah, it rules. High budget Gundam like in the movies and OVAs is always so cool to look at. Char's characterization here is great, and I like how bleak the movie can be while still ending on a somewhat hopeful note. War in the Pocket: Another really good one. What I appreciate about Gundam so much is how they will characterize Zeon soldiers and officers and don't just make them all one note cartoonishly evil. Zeon is still horrible and its leadership deserved what they got, but how Gundam treats conflicts and soldiers, at least so far, with quite a bit of nuance is always appreciated. I think the messaging on how war is sold to kids is good, but a bit weird coming from Gundam, albeit not for anyone's fault but the company that owns Gundam. Currently on Stardust Memory. Enjoying it so far but don't really have any thoughts.
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Apr 16, 2023 06:08
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Not sufficiently leaning into Gundam fanservice is not why Evolution bled a 60,000 playerbase down to one that struggles to break four digits, because I guarantee you most of those people knew very little or absolutely nothing about the franchise. It was the structural and gameplay issues that have been discussed at length at this point like "why are these matches so loving long" "this monetization sucks rear end" "boy getting one hit ko'd by the barbatos and the sniper are anti fun" "whoops half my team disconnected because there's basically no penalty so gently caress me I guess" and the fact that the changes to these either took forever to arrive, were so slapdash and scattershot they didn't matter, or haven't happened at all period. Putting in the Aerial is not going to do numbers for Evolution because most of those 60,000 people are already playing something else, and anyone who does come back finds out none of the reasons they left have been addressed. Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Apr 16, 2023 |
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Apr 16, 2023 06:09
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Oh I forgot Gundam F91: It definitely feels like they condensed the planned 50 episodes into 2 hours and I respect the commitment to telling as much as they could of that story in that two hours. That said, while I still liked it overall probably the weakest one so far for me. That movie is just nonstop and I found it a little hard to keep up with it.
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Apr 16, 2023 06:13
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B-B-But Barbatos is bad competitively and the esports scene is obviously the most important thing
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Apr 16, 2023 06:13
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F91 starts great and I enjoy Iron Mask for having the most "divorced dad" energy in the franchise but it's just a mess overall thanks to the production woes.
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Apr 16, 2023 06:18
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Waffleman_ posted:B-B-But Barbatos is bad competitively and the esports scene is obviously the most important thing Barbatos is a pubstomper. It's bad both competitively and at the lowest level, but it's terrifying against a bunch of randos. ...now I'm kinda wondering, is that the sort of place where you want the most broad-appeal character in your game? I'm genuinely not sure.
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Apr 16, 2023 06:26
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i think the number of people turned off by it being not gundam enough are dwarfed by the number of people who never gave it a shot because they saw the name gundam and assumed it'd be some cheap franchise cash-in game for a franchise they weren't even familiar with. the core gameplay of evolution is very good, i suspect it would've done substantially better as a new ip, that part doesn't need the name gundam to help prop up a shoddy product with franchise diehards. on the topic of it being a gundam game though, tbh i feel like the dash mechanics combined with the TTK and general weapon design leads to gameplay that is gundam-y enough. it's not very good at selling the giant robot aspect, sure, but there's more to gundam fights than that aspect (which honestly isn't even emphasized all that much a lot of the time). playing as ranged zaku and being on a roll feels a lot like being char in that very first char vs amuro fight, and i think that's more important. the technical issues and bad monetization probably turned away a shitload of people who were just dipping their toes into the waters of the new game release and checking out if it was a game they wanted to give any minute commitment to. of those that remained, the prevalence of "pubstomp" suits like barbatos, exia, and gm sniper probably got them frustrated enough over a slightly longer period of time to just set the game down and not come back to it. personally, i'd play the game about 3x as much as i do right now if easyanticheat didn't gently caress up every time i launch the game and refuse to let me launch it a second time without restarting my computer
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Apr 16, 2023 06:28
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It's a lot like Multiversus where you have a game that has a great core, came out of the open beta riding high on positive word of mouth, and then immediately started choking to death as people realized the devs do not know how to do literally anything other than the core gameplay.
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Apr 16, 2023 06:39
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Meanwhile GBO2 is popular in spite of the many glaring problems it has, because when you get that match that goes just right it's one of the greatest online multiplayer gaming experiences I've ever had
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Apr 16, 2023 06:57
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I'm actually curious what the history of people disliking ZZ is. Everyone seems to agree that at one point it was thought of as one of the worst series, but I don't know where that comes from. Were there just a lot of people who bounced off the first 10-15 episodes?
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Apr 16, 2023 07:06
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chrome line posted:I'm actually curious what the history of people disliking ZZ is. Everyone seems to agree that at one point it was thought of as one of the worst series, but I don't know where that comes from. Were there just a lot of people who bounced off the first 10-15 episodes? Yes. It was also difficult to get your hands on, so relatively few people watched it at all, meaning a small number of people could set the whole narrative. It's kind of like how Jojo part 6 had a much stronger reputation in the west when there wasn't an official release. When you've got a small pool of viewers, coincidences of taste that normally disappear in the wider data become very important. Further, well, ZZ is still thought of as one of the worst. It's not as loathed or anything, but the ending is terrible, the opening is a major tone break from Zeta despite being a direct sequel, the show's internal logic is inconsistent (nobody gives a poo poo about Beecha trying to murder Judau, while Amuro and Sayla committing lesser infractions wound up in the brig, Haman is simultaneously a force of pure evil and an innocent broken bird, Ple's death is pretty much ignored, the Federation's politics are confusing even allowing for their usual low standards of behavior, the show shifts between Looney Toons and death mattering without clear markers...) and the wider war basically doesn't exist, even compared to Zeta's sometimes loose handling of things the main characters didn't see happening. Its reputation has improved, partially because, with more people able to see it, you get a higher percentage of people watching through because they like it rather than because they want to see all of the UC and ZZ is a chore needed to complete that task, but ZZ is still far from the top. In fact, in Japan as of 2019, ZZ was below the 00 movie in popularity according to the big Gundam poll. Still better than AGE, Try, or G Reco, but pretty low all the same.
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Apr 16, 2023 07:58
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chiasaur11 posted:Yes. ZZ is just very tomino, for better or worse. Basically every complaint you listed is the same sort of thing I feel about g-reco. Most specifically for me you have things like the total whiplash of everyone being suitably horrified by the photon torpedo, or ending their fight due to the horrors of war, only for the show to end on the comedy bit of Klim Nick doing space 9/11 into a war rally as if that wouldn't immediately reignite the conflict. Dude just consistently struggles with tone, and I feel like it tended to be better when he had less clout and more oversight.
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Apr 16, 2023 10:14
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I mean, of course anime fans wouldn't like ZZ. Because it's not
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Apr 16, 2023 14:24
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chiasaur11 posted:In fact, in Japan as of 2019, ZZ was below the 00 movie in popularity according to the big Gundam poll. Still better than AGE, Try, or G Reco, but pretty low all the same. Japan has a pretty low opinion of ZZ Gundam now, but it wasn't actually always that bad. There was a dip in the average ratings for ZZ Gundam compared to Zeta Gundam, but not actually by that much on average, and it only went from an average of 6.6% for Zeta Gundam to an average of 6.1% for ZZ Gundam. The Gunpla for ZZ Gundam has a similar trajectory, where it's a step down from the Gunpla sales for Zeta Gundam, but not actually by that much.  The trajectory is maintained across both ratings and Gunpla sales if you bring Mobile Suit Gundam into the mix too, since while the first show was cancelled during it's original run, it did insanely well on re-runs, getting ratings upwards of 30% on some episodes in the Kanto region (i.e. the region where Tokyo is), and both Zeta Gundam and Gundam ZZ are a loving massive step down from both the kinds of ratings (on re-runs) and Gunpla sales the original show and movies created. The ratings and sales for Gundam ZZ were seen as doing well enough by Sunrise that they extended ZZ's run from a planned 40 episodes to 47 episodes from what I gather too; which would explain why some of the show's later episodes are so ropey writing and animation wise, presuming it's true. The really strange part from a modern point of view is that ZZ had a more popular finale than Zeta if you look at the individual ratings on this site. The ratings from the back half of 1984 and front half of 1985 are missing, so there's no indication how Zeta's first 18 episodes did, but the individual episode ratings for episode 19+ of Zeta and all of ZZ are there, and while Zeta had a stronger lead in to it's finale with a 7.6 for episode 48 and an 8.1 for episode 49, it only scored a 5.6 for it's last episode, while ZZ had a 5.9 and a 6 for it's penultimate episodes, but a 8.2 for it's actual finale. Which implies audiences enjoyed the lead in to Zeta's finale, but maybe got burned out on it or something and so some people just didn't bother with the actual final episode, while word of mouth grew around ZZ's finale and it spiked in the last episode because of that or something. More than that, a lot of the difference in the ratings for Zeta and ZZ seems to have been in it's first 20 episodes, because it has an average of 6.6% on any site you check the overall, but the average from the individual episodes available on that site is only 6.2%, and the highest rated episode apparently was an 11.7%, but it doesn't show up in the individual records on that site. I'd hazard a guess that the show had a really strong start due to the positive reception the original show had in reruns and the movies grabbed, but that some of the audience bailed because it wasn't about Amuro, there was no Zeon etc. Or, to plot it out in a way that is perhaps a bit more visually intuitive:  Zeta had a better start than ZZ, but beyond that the two appear to have roughly similar reception on an average basically. At least, at the time. Zeta has maintained it's reception over time far better than ZZ did, presumably because people could appreciate the more dramatic bits of Zeta more as they aged, while much of ZZ is superficial physical comedy whose reception is likely to stagnate over time, if not diminish.
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Apr 16, 2023 14:27
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chrome line posted:I'm actually curious what the history of people disliking ZZ is. Everyone seems to agree that at one point it was thought of as one of the worst series, but I don't know where that comes from. Were there just a lot of people who bounced off the first 10-15 episodes? Basically, in the early days of Gundam fandom in the west it was pretty hard to get your hands on a lot of Gundam. Most people were happy with what aired on Toonami. And there was so much of a Gundam backlog for people getting into it with Wing, even if you were able to get subbed Gundam it would take you a drat minute to get through it all and make up your own mind on every series. This created a vacuum where particularly opinionated people could declare facts about Gundam loudly enough to make it just accepted wisdom in the fandom. "ZZ is bad" is one of those loudly stated opinions. As well as stuff like, "X just failed because of 'Gundam fatigue'" when the much more reasonable explanation is that it's just not a good show.
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Apr 16, 2023 14:34
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Gripweed posted:This created a vacuum where particularly opinionated people could declare facts about Gundam loudly enough to make it just accepted wisdom in the fandom. [...]like, "X just failed because of 'Gundam fatigue'" when the much more reasonable explanation is that it's just not a good show. Checks out.
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Apr 16, 2023 16:36
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ZZ suffers from changing gears halfish way through, and lots of the mess results from that. Even within episodes in the early part Tomino clearly completely changed his concept for Glemmy from "lovestruck rookie pilot" to "some sort of Zeon noble with pull in the Neo-Zeon community". With no attempt to transition the initial presentation of him to the latter. Seconding (thirding?) X not being a good show. ZZ is much much better than X. Grape fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Apr 16, 2023 |
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Apr 16, 2023 18:22
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Don't really care about the subjective opinion on it so much as thinking people just cannot easily/do not watch X and so if a small group of people are out there saying it's bad, that's the reality the community creates and perpetuates.
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Apr 16, 2023 18:42
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RevolverDivider posted:I hate GBO2 with all my heart. It feels like such utter slow unplayable garbage after playing the Extreme Versus games. Yeah I know they're totally different genres, but one feels like absolute trash to control while one is one of the smoothest experiences for movement out there at the moment. See that is exactly my problem though and why I like GBO2: This thing moves like total rear end because it's a giant robot 20-odd meters tall. It doesn't have twitch reflexes! To me the sluggish controls are the point, the same as 'turret traversal speed' is the point in War Thunder/World of Tanks. drrockso20 posted:Meanwhile GBO2 is popular in spite of the many glaring problems it has, because when you get that match that goes just right it's one of the greatest online multiplayer gaming experiences I've ever had To steal from the War Thunder thread, who themselves stole from the All Points Bulletin thread: The highs are very high, and the lows are very frequent.
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Apr 16, 2023 19:29
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Warmachine posted:See that is exactly my problem though and why I like GBO2: This thing moves like total rear end because it's a giant robot 20-odd meters tall. It doesn't have twitch reflexes! To me the sluggish controls are the point, the same as 'turret traversal speed' is the point in War Thunder/World of Tanks.  this is about feeling like a gundam right?i'm pretty sure most robots in gundam have twitch reflexes? char and amuro are both very notable for it, and even like leos seem to be fairly agile when put in the hands of zechs or whoever. slow and stompy mechs isn't really the gundam vibe, more "terrifying weapons of mass destruction"
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Apr 16, 2023 19:34
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Season 1 00 grunts say hello.
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Apr 16, 2023 19:37
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even then it was only the grunts from 1 particular faction. flags were very agile!
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Apr 16, 2023 19:38
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ninjewtsu posted:
I mean, Char and Amuro don't float around like Unreal Tournament characters either. I don't know how better to describe it. GBO2's controls lend the mobile suits a physical presence that Evo's reskinned Tracer doesn't have. 
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Apr 16, 2023 19:40
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i think jumping around like an unreal tournament character pretty perfectly describes how char fights amuro in their first battle. "reskinned tracer" is pretty fitting for the 3x as fast man! like idk it's not like i can argue you into enjoying the game but this particular complaint i'm having trouble lining up with the reality of the franchise that the game would be attempting to emulate
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Apr 16, 2023 19:46
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i think the thing that gundam evo is missing that it needs to feel more like gundam is destructible environments that crumble like dust when your giant robot dodges backwards into them. civilian collateral damage is where the true "giant robot" feeling of gundam comes from. otherwise it's basically just dudes with jetpacks and tiny mouse-people inside of them
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Apr 16, 2023 19:55
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haypliss posted:Don't really care about the subjective opinion on it so much as thinking people just cannot easily/do not watch X and so if a small group of people are out there saying it's bad, that's the reality the community creates and perpetuates. If we want to name names and be specific there was a site in the early 2000's called MAHQ that had a review section and they loving hated ZZ. That opinion just trickled down into the mass of people who had never watched and really had no way to watch it, so they just kind of parroted it until everyone believed it was true. Sadly those reviews are no longer accessible unless you want to really dig through the guts of the site.
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Apr 16, 2023 19:59
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GBO2 mobile suits are so sluggish they make actual tanks look mobile and that's unbelievably miserable to play. Navigating two dudes at once dumping entire machine guns and beam cannons all over the place in your face by threading the needle between shots and moving fast as gently caress is what Extreme Versus is all about and it's way more in line with the actual good poo poo in the series. I can't think of one good fight sequence I went wow these are heavy slow pieces of poo poo in the shows.
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Apr 16, 2023 20:02
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the robot i can think of that had "big and heavy" emphasized the most in its fight was the graze-ein, and that thing was doing sick spinkicks this is of course discounting the legions of stiff leos and anfs that usually become magically flexible the moment a named pilot steps in one ninjewtsu fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Apr 16, 2023 |
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Apr 16, 2023 20:11
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ninjewtsu posted:
I enjoy GBO2 a lot and have played a shitload of it and it works incredibly well in the gameplay once you get a handle on it, but yeah Evolution is honestly way, way closer to how mobile suits are depicted as moving in most shows than GBO is. Mobile suits are almost always fast and squirrelly and reliant on super high mobility and very frequently explode or take critical damage whenever they take a direct hit or two, which lines up with Evo's flow pretty well. The only time mobile suits are big, slow, chunky tanks are generally very specific lovely grunt suits like the Anfs/Tierens(and even then the named character Tierens like Sergei's and the Taozi were high mobility dancers compared to the others) or 08th MS Team, which portrayed mobile suit combat pretty differently from basically every other OYW work(and even then has some weirdness like how the Gouf Custom can basically do whatever it wants because "it's an ace!").
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Apr 16, 2023 20:13
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Kanos posted:Mobile suits are almost always fast and squirrelly and reliant on super high mobility and very frequently explode or take critical damage whenever they take a direct hit or two, which lines up with Evo's flow pretty well. yeah the way robots in evo boost around especially feels like how the anime fights go down. you can stand in place like a chump and get shot, or you can make some very fast discrete motions with time inbetween for you to get your thrusters pointed the right way. ranged zaku's boosts especially feel really satisfying and emulates the "amuro tries to get char in his crosshairs only for char to abruptly blur out of his field of vision" feel perfectly
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Apr 16, 2023 20:18
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Blockhouse posted:If we want to name names and be specific there was a site in the early 2000's called MAHQ that had a review section and they loving hated ZZ. That opinion just trickled down into the mass of people who had never watched and really had no way to watch it, so they just kind of parroted it until everyone believed it was true. Heck I remember trawling through usenet archives a few years back to find anime takes from the 90s and I recall seeing a lot of people who hated ZZ all the way back then too. And since that's from an era when people couldn't easily watch the show to see for themselves, well, easy to see how you'd have some folks who never saw the show repeating the common criticisms.
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Apr 16, 2023 20:53
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I didn't hate ZZ but those first 10-15 episodes are really rough and easy to bounce off of. I did like a lot of elements of the first set of episodes, like Mashymere being an absolute weirdo and I genuinely really like Judeau and Elle so that helped me push through the stuff I found really annoying or frustrating like the pacing, Beecha and Monda, and Leina being really kind of irritating to me. Once they're off Shangri-La and in space it really picks up, especially once Roux comes in,e and after the Moon Moon episodes it kicks in gear for me. Honestly, I'd probably rewatch the back half but it would be hard to get me to watch the first half again. The biggest failing of X, for me, was that the villians really loving sucked. There's also a lot of weird Tifa stuff that pops up but then gets dropped. Like the younger villian brother is all "I love you Tifa" when they try to kidnapp her in the beginning but then it's never addressed again. I can see why Garrod annoys folks and he does get grating to me at times and it took a bit for Tifa to grow on me but Jamil is pretty solid all the way through and most of the crew on the Freeden are at least non-objectionable, except Witz. I also wish they'd fleshed out the space colonies more.I mean I also ironically and unironically like the super weird dolphin episodes though so take everything I say as my own opinion. Like ZZ, I don''t think I'd want to do a full rewatch of X ever but I'd watch from weird dolphin episodes on again. I've been in super weird space so I haven't watched IBO season 2 yet since I know how it all goes and ends but once I do, I'm left with AGE and G-Reco as the only ones I haven't seen yet to watch plus Witch from Mercury.
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Apr 16, 2023 21:37
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