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Desumaytah posted:I just want to say that I appreciate that this manga portrays the concept of war as a strong, but not all-powerful devil that eats poo poo next to instinctual fears like "The sensation of falling" or "It's dark" instead of towing the line of "War is the worst thing ever in the universe and we, as humans, are definitely the most evil and important things that have ever existed because we came up with the concept" that pretty much every author I've ever read the work of won't stop writing. War is explicitly weakened. They said that after Chainsaw ate a chunk of them, no new wars have started since. Wars not happening makes fear of war go down.
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Apr 20, 2023 19:41
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Yoru is significantly weaker than she used to be because Chainsaw kicked her rear end and ate most of her body which is why there havent been any major wars in the world (and why no one remembers nuclear weapons of WW II)
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Apr 20, 2023 19:43
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Hunt11 posted:To be fair this is War after being partially eaten by Chainsawman and thus losing one of its most powerful tools. MonsterEnvy posted:War is explicitly weakened. They said that after Chainsaw ate a chunk of them, no new wars have started since. Wars not happening makes fear of war go down. The idea that the concept of chainsaws can whittle the concept of full-blown nuclear war down to a body-hopping Very Special Episode of Blossom makes this all the sweeter for me, to be honest.
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Apr 20, 2023 19:49
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Tbf even at full strength I don't think War could a hold a candle to Darkness.
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Apr 20, 2023 19:53
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HerraS posted:Yoru is significantly weaker than she used to be because Chainsaw kicked her rear end and ate most of her body which is why there havent been any major wars in the world (and why no one remembers nuclear weapons of WW II) Is it that Or is it that Nuclear Weapons, Nazis and WW2 were devils of their own who were lieutenants of Yoru and were eaten by Pochita
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Apr 20, 2023 19:54
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Steve Yun posted:Is it that It's that the human concept of what we do to one another in war is a learned idea invented by weak apes that is forever going to pale in comparison to the fact that the universe is simply just more than us and we're all born in trauma with an innate fear of its promises.
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Apr 20, 2023 20:15
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Desumaytah posted:It's that the human concept of what we do to one another in war is a learned idea invented by weak apes that is forever going to pale in comparison to the fact that the universe is simply just more than us and human beings are born in trauma with an innate fear of its promises. Sure sure but I’m asking about the relationship between War and Nukes Nazis and WW2. We’re they parts of her body or were they lieutenants
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Apr 20, 2023 20:17
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Steve Yun posted:Sure sure but I’m asking about the relationship between War and Nukes Nazis and WW2. We’re they parts of her body or were they lieutenants There's probably a lieutenent devil out there. Maybe we'll find out!
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Apr 20, 2023 20:24
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Desumaytah posted:It's that the human concept of what we do to one another in war is a learned idea invented by weak apes that is forever going to pale in comparison to the fact that the universe is simply just more than us and we're all born in trauma with an innate fear of its promises. I dunno Halloween was strong but still went down like a punk to Makima.
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Apr 20, 2023 20:45
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Denji could beat Halloween with his latest powerup tbh
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Apr 20, 2023 20:51
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I don't think screaming sex at her would give denji the edge tbh
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Apr 20, 2023 20:54
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A Sometimes Food posted:I dunno Halloween was strong but still went down like a punk to Makima. I ain't got an innate fear of learnin' too much. My lizard brain does get chafed at the idea that something, like, I dunno, a predator trying to eat me, might have control over my actions. But poo poo like darkness? The physical experience of falling? Put those in front of me, The Animal, and that's pure panic. Trounces them both. War? The gently caress is that? You think I got time to learn fear math?
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Apr 20, 2023 21:03
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Stairmaster posted:I don't think screaming sex at her would give denji the edge tbh Can’t fill your brain with more info if it’s already full of one thing
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Apr 20, 2023 21:04
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Electric Phantasm posted:Tbf even at full strength I don't think War could a hold a candle to Darkness. Yeah, based on what we've seen Darkness is the strongest devil out there, at least that I can think of. Makima was strong as hell but at least Denji managed to beat her, whereas I can't imagine Darkness being beaten. And we know Chainsaw Man was able to beat War in the past, so yeah I'd put a full strength War below Darkness as well.
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Apr 20, 2023 21:58
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We still haven’t seen Death, something that could be both a horseman and a primal fear
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Apr 20, 2023 22:01
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Death is either very very strong or very nice to Chainsaw because it is the only remaining conclusion for beings at the end of their lifespan, of a previous total of five. Chainsaw ate the other conclusions, along with human beings' sixth-sense and the light of a star that breaks the minds of children.
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Apr 20, 2023 22:14
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I still think Death is not going to be anywhere near as powerful, or at least as malevolent, as you'd expect. The process of dying is terrifying, cancer or burning or drowning, and those things are distinct enough they seem to get a separate Devil. Meanwhile a lot of the fear of death itself is the unknowable-ness of what that is even like. Which seems more under the portfolio of Darkness, the fear of the unknown outside the campfire light. Also I just want them to be able to bounce off Denji an Asa more than something like Falling can EDIT: VVV yeah that's basically what I'm hoping for. Discworld Death or Angel Devil style VVV GloomMouse fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Apr 20, 2023 |
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Apr 20, 2023 22:20
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Death will just be Discworld death. Like just the same character, no explanation.
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Apr 20, 2023 22:21
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PringleCreamEgg posted:Death is either very very strong or very nice to Chainsaw because it is the only remaining conclusion for beings at the end of their lifespan, of a previous total of five. Chainsaw ate the other conclusions, along with human beings' sixth-sense and the light of a star that breaks the minds of children. Man I love that kind of poo poo. Just makes my imagination race with the possibilities. Like, in the Three Body Problem trilogy (spoilers in case you’re going to read) they find out the universe used to have 10 dimensions and the speed of light used to be almost infinitely fast but the constant warring between aliens degraded the fabric of spacetime because they used dimension-collapsing bombs on each other.
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Apr 20, 2023 22:24
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Apr 20, 2023 22:29
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Eimi posted:Death will just be Discworld Death of Rats. Like just the same character, no explanation. a humble suggestion/alteration
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Apr 20, 2023 23:00
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the personality of devils is influenced by their core concept, but not completely dependent on it. the death devil could be any kind of person. well, unless their age and incredible power means they are beyond anything a human could recognize as a person. that was sort of true for darkness.
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Apr 20, 2023 23:09
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i hope the death devil is a bodacious babe
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Apr 20, 2023 23:17
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Valentin posted:a humble suggestion/alteration an acceptable alternative
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Apr 20, 2023 23:26
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I know the "Yoshida= death devil" theory doesn't really make sense, but he really is a good example of the way death works personified: Death is always there, just kind of lurking in background. Sometimes you go long periods of time without thinking about it, but it never really goes away. Then suddenly BAM! it comes back in a way that's shocking or inevitable and unavoidable, then it goes back just sort of being in the background and waiting.
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Apr 21, 2023 00:51
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no one goes long periods without thinking about death in this setting.
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Apr 21, 2023 01:06
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Darkness was a bit of an rear end in a top hat, but Falling has been lovely so far if you ignore all the killing.
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Apr 21, 2023 01:29
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DeadBonesBrook posted:Darkness was a bit of an rear end in a top hat, but Falling has been lovely so far if you ignore all the killing. The killing is one thing. Stealing apples, on the other hand, that's right out of bounds.
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Apr 21, 2023 03:25
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mycelia posted:Life is full of misery, but cats also exist. It honestly makes me wonder if Fujimoto has real experience with those kind of feelings because gently caress if that didn't resonate with me. (I type, with my cat making a nuisance of herself because it's dinnertime. Can't lie in bed all day, I've got a mouth to feed.) Chainsaw Man is a pretty philosophical comic. The whole story is about resilience against despair in spite of a life of meaningless suffering. Aki's suffering comes from a random act of unstoppable violence. Denji's suffering is revealed to ultimately have come from his own hand (he killed his lovely father, thus indebting himself to the yakuza). Denji's superpower, much like Agni in Fire Punch, is the paradoxical power of 1. your body and mind being in relentless pain from being torn apart over and over again, and 2. being able to get back up no matter what. to slow down having to confront his traumas, denji engages in distraction (I wanna touch boobs, I wanna eat good food, i wanna have sex) and repression (don't open the door). for me, the most moving scene in the whole story so far has been when, defeated by the loss of Power and Aki, Denji submits to Makima and tells her "i'm sick of thinking, i just want to live as your dog." Denji is too resilient to let himself die, but the psychological pain of being alive can be too much to bear. I think fujimoto just, like, gets it. Denji's poo poo life is really over-the-top, but the feelings he feels, and the ways he copes with it, are 100% real. I think Himeno was another really terrific character. The way the pressures of her job are slowly eating away at her mental wellbeing, so she gives in to her mentor's self-destructive advice of letting loose and going a little crazy to let off some steam, even if it means being pretty lovely to people around you, is really well done. In the manga it's about the pressures of being a demon hunter but it also reminded me so much about being in grad school lol.
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Apr 21, 2023 03:44
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Cephas posted:I think Himeno was another really terrific character. The way the pressures of her job are slowly eating away at her mental wellbeing, so she gives in to her mentor's self-destructive advice of letting loose and going a little crazy to let off some steam, even if it means being pretty lovely to people around you, is really well done. I was puzzled how much of the fandom hates Himeno, I thought she was well written. I got choked up for her and she was gone by episode 8!
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Apr 21, 2023 04:09
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Steve Yun posted:I was puzzled how much of the fandom hates Himeno, I thought she was well written. I got choked up for her and she was gone by episode 8! She made the top ten characters in the most recent poll. (And, despite Aki winning she was the focus of the bonus comic). I think it's mostly just Aki Angel shippers getting mad and using moral outrage as a smokescreen.
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Apr 21, 2023 05:14
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:asa died and is now a prisoner in her own body. that's pretty hosed up, even by csm standards. thankfully, she's not very bright so she doesn't focus on the sheer existential horror of her situation. she is pretty darn cute though
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Apr 21, 2023 13:34
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:asa died and is now a prisoner in her own body. that's pretty hosed up, even by csm standards. thankfully, she's not very bright so she doesn't focus on the sheer existential horror of her situation. Tbh, not focusing on existential horror of her situation is actually the smart thing to do.
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Apr 21, 2023 13:43
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GloomMouse posted:For those battling depression it's a common feeling that no one else feels that way, or as deeply, and that they are alone in their misery. One of the least helpful (unfortunately common) responses to that is to say "okay but I/others have it worse than you so" which is essentially telling someone that their pain doesn't count or is not allowed because they didn't earn enough suffering points. Denji is the goodest boy and didn't try to win a contest of which of them have been hosed over by the universe more, instead he basically told her that her feelings are valid. This so much this. I had times where i was depressed and i had friends who told me they had it worse and i ended up pushing them away in anger. Like gee thanks for making me feel my pain is invalid. Denji is very much a sweet boy to Asa. Even if hes being basic :v
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Apr 21, 2023 15:28
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Steve Yun posted:I was puzzled how much of the fandom hates Himeno, I thought she was well written. I got choked up for her and she was gone by episode 8! It's mostly because of the whole "sexual predator towards the underage" thing. She's an extremely well written character in a lot of ways with a lot of interesting depth and complexities. Unfortunately she's also written in a way where she doesn't pass the "would I be cool with this same behavior if it was a man doing it to an underage girl?" test and some people can get past that and enjoy her character anyway and others can't and it kind of just depends on the person.
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Apr 21, 2023 16:37
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You know things are truly hosed up in this world because Chainsaw Man's will to live is dependant on his wood.
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Apr 21, 2023 16:46
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:It's mostly because of the whole "sexual predator towards the underage" thing. I mean people liked Makima and she did the exact same poo poo but more manipulative.
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Apr 21, 2023 16:52
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I think Himeno's character was good, but her being set up as a main character and then dying horrifically in a desperate attempt to do something that ended up being completely meaningless in the end was much more important, which does kind of suck, though, because she didn't get enough character development relative to the people she's being compared to. I also think her perving on Denji was a perfect combination of asserting she's not a good person, contextualizing Denji's own pervy nature, and setting up how Makima is slowing gaining control of Denji, all in one action. It's always frustrating when people forget "Good Character=/= Good Person."
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Apr 21, 2023 17:03
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ImpAtom posted:I mean people liked Makima and she did the exact same poo poo but more manipulative. I dunno, there are some pretty key differences there. For example: Makima wasn't interested in having sex with an underage boy, she wanted to emotionally manipulate and completely destroy an underage boy so she could get ahold of the devil he was using as a heart and then have that devil by her side for all eternity while she ruled the world with an iron fist as an unquestioned God. To be clear I'm not saying that's any better.
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Apr 21, 2023 17:15
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Didnt she not know Denji's age? And she felt really bad about it once she was no longer puking in peoples' mouths. I had no idea she's controversial btw she seems written to be super likable including a cool eyepatch.
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Apr 21, 2023 19:03
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