|
just gonna add to the pile to indeed never disclose your autism diagnosis to an employer. I have regretted each instance and every employer has been downright awful or condescending about it.
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 19:51
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
More to the point, family, gender/sex diversity, neurodiversity, mental health treatments, pregnancy, and other medical treatment you're undergoing are often explicitly illegal to ask about or consider when hiring. These laws are meant to protect minorities and it means that if you don't want to reveal something you don't need to. People often do consider these things but will not commit that to writing, which lets soft discrimination pass in hiring. Don't volunteer information that they can use against you. Instead of leading with the neurodiverse angle you might want to just say something like "I'm sorry, but I get really nervous in interviews and sometimes miss details, so if I'm missing something in what you ask please let me know." Expressing a little vulnerability lets people get on your side, and if you're at the interview stage they really do hope you're the right person to hire. I've been able to interview a lot of our hiring candidates in recent years and it's really made me appreciate how much they're hoping you're the right person. See if you can write down some bullet points about how you're great for this job and have them handy for reference, next to your camera is ideal. Also write down a couple questions you have for them, and don't be afraid to refer to those notes. You're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. My favorite question to ask is "talk about a big error you've made at work and how you worked to fix it. What would have been a better way to react?" I'd really like to talk about what I'm looking for here but I am late for an appointment. I'll be back later. You can do the job, they're just looking for confirmation of that. It's really hard to project confidence when you're aware of your own weaknesses, but everyone has weaknesses. Remind them about how great you are and don't volunteer things for them to doubt. You can do it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 12, 2023 20:47
|
|
|
Tricky Ed posted:My favorite question to ask is "talk about a big error you've made at work and how you worked to fix it. What would have been a better way to react?" I'd really like to talk about what I'm looking for here but I am late for an appointment. I'll be back later. It's later! So what I'm looking for is the ability to a) admit you have been wrong, b) take ownership of it, c) work to resolve the problem, d) learn a lesson from it. People who never admit to being wrong are terrible to work with. Similarly, people who blame others for their own mistakes are terrible to work with. People who can accept their own mistakes and work to correct them are fantastic. People who can look at a series of events, break down what went wrong, and choose a better way to proceed in the future are gold. As someone who's had to spend time thinking about how your brain actually works, you're ahead of the game in questions like this. Introspection is a valuable skill as long as you're able to turn off that "I know every one of my flaws" mode during an interview. My industry (games) just wouldn't run without neurodivergent people and I think that over time more fields will be more accommodating as well. Good luck!
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 02:39
|
|
|
Dance Officer posted:
I had an interview and once I mentioned being autistic I watched it quickly fall apart. I already tested well on job related tasks, so they started questioning things like if I could move boxes or stand. I walked ten miles a day average and was 235lbs from lifting hours every day. I honestly wish I'd kept my mouth shut because I'd have had that job. It was an uncomfy interview anyways with 3 interviewers. But the vibe flipped right over to bad when I mentioned it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 15:17
|
|
|
Tricky Ed posted:More to the point, family, gender/sex diversity, neurodiversity, mental health treatments, pregnancy, and other medical treatment you're undergoing are often explicitly illegal to ask about or consider when hiring. These laws are meant to protect minorities and it means that if you don't want to reveal something you don't need to. People often do consider these things but will not commit to write, which lets soft discrimination pass in hiring. Don't volunteer information that they can use against you. Where I live, it is a grey area, especially since there is a lot of social pressure and the government initiated to have more diversity. It is another ball game in the non-profit and art careers where they are actively creating workplaces that are diverse and some even create spaces for people in certain communities and yes they have the right to say no to white straight people. If there is one thing I learned though that those laws don't actually protect minorities and in fact, like my sister who holds a Native American name, has had to "Whiten" her name on applications as she is an ESL teacher because they toss her application out otherwise. The fact is the system still benefits the white, NT male. In fact, it is a lot of white middle-class people get so up in arms about this and the laws. I support people wanting to take the advantage of this new system and make a better life for themselves. If there were more Autistic positive employment programs that didn't cater around computer coding (I am horrible at) like Mircosoft has, I would be all on board for it. Unfortunately, so many liberal communities (I work in the arts) still have messed up biases about Autistics because time is money and we are barely getting by as it is. I am white with a disability, and there is already an advantage as it is. I can't imagine what our POC with autism must face as so many of their communities still don't even believe this exists. I follow a few Black autistic content creators who talk about their communities being so worried about them being in public because the NT community already have to be aware of their actions at all times around white people. Thankfully the city I live in is beyond diverse I have not seen anywhere else while travelling. This isn't some desk job for a bank where I can stay Anonymous. This is a community-focused organization that does cater to a neighbourhood those residents are either poor or new to the country. We are a public face, and honestly, I see why this organization is concerned about diversity. Just imagine the frustration of residents would have if they saw middle-class white people, especially those who don't live in the neighbourhood, working for this organization. I am more frustrated that it seems that my one diversity checkmark is still behind the fight for equality. I am in my mid-30s in survival mode and my generation will always have those bias. I do believe it will change though as I said earlier I am seeing it in the younger generation of more acceptance. If they don't hire me, that's fine, I won't hold it back on them. I would be disappointed though and frustrated that it is my autism in the end that denied me a job but I will understand why. (most likely I am going to mess up this interview in general. LOL) Though I am sure they will see my ND ways in the online interview. I just hope I pass as quirky. Not to OP but I wish I could be way more specific but I would be hardcore doxxing myself and I am trying not to get cancelled when I become famous (this is a joke.... just in case). I swear I am not a right-wing nutter living in the middle of nowhere. DrNewton fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Apr 13, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 18:49
|
|
|
The interview went OK. They nod in happiness when it came to a lot of the job specifics, how to factor in the needs of the people I will be working with, and some of my time management skills. I used my 5 seconds, 5 minutes, and 5 hours theory. There was a question about how I take my life experience to spread diversity and acceptance at school and work that did baffle me. I said something along the lines of being in this community that was so diverse, living in a co-op, etc, it was really hard to see that there were prejudices and didn't really become aware that things were an issue that wasn't in my community until my college years. So I said I am not afraid to speak out if someone is really crossing the line. Also, I express the way I see the world via my art and I used a tv script I wrote for my post-grad. Of course, I am writing this much better than I said. I also asked them how they had connections to the community, and though they understood the issue of people having concerns about outside influence, I didn't ask them the best way. Anyway. I am a writer in the long run, I express myself best with stories, and interviews are rough for me. They did have a power point and had each question in a text forum. I was so shocked by this accommodation, I was a little speechless. Which I hope didn't come off as rude. The only downside was one woman got a little offended when I tried to ask how they had a relationship with the community that she made a point to say "WE are ALL POC staff here. Which you should know." So I am like ... uh oh. Everyone else was nice though. I tried to play it with "I know so many people, I am excited to see if there is anyone I can introduce that might be of service to the organization." they even knew someone that I know, who is a big part of the community. Now I am questioning everything and I want to die. Oh well, off to apply for more jobs. DrNewton fucked around with this message at 17:31 on Apr 14, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 13, 2023 21:21
|
|
|
That's a pretty strange reaction to your question. Seems kind of rude to be honest. And yeah, welcome to the phase between interviews and feedback where you suddenly know exactly what you should have said and realize you are doomed. Hate that part. Did they give you any info when you can expect to hear from them?
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2023 13:16
|
|
|
Cloacamazing! posted:That's a pretty strange reaction to your question. Seems kind of rude to be honest. Two weeks from now. Yes, now I am overanalyzing everything. I am writing up an thank you an e-mail right now, and I just got word from someone who works for a bigger non-profit within the same field and wants to be a reference. I sent my reference list on Monday (as they kind of gave us a short notice to submit our references) but I will put in said 4th reference with big connections in my thank you e-mail. Overall, I did great in some questions and didn't say what they me to say in others. It really depends on how much I offended the one woman (Who I have a feeling already has someone in mind for the position).
|
|
#
?
Apr 14, 2023 17:30
|
|
|
Anyone aware of how to get evaluated for autism as an adult? I've struggled on and off all of my life with certain things and there's a bunch of stuff all happening at once now that's brought it to the forefront once again. Would just like to talk to someone about it but everyone's either not accepting new clients, super booked out for half a year, or only deal with children. Also wary of online screeners since I don't trust any of that but I don't know if I'm wrong there
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 17:47
|
|
|
Nm
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 18:25
|
|
|
biceps crimes posted:Anyone aware of how to get evaluated for autism as an adult? I've struggled on and off all of my life with certain things and there's a bunch of stuff all happening at once now that's brought it to the forefront once again. Would just like to talk to someone about it but everyone's either not accepting new clients, super booked out for half a year, or only deal with children. Also wary of online screeners since I don't trust any of that but I don't know if I'm wrong there Can you give a very general idea of your location? Which country, which state? Nobody can answer unless we know those things.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 18:35
|
|
|
HopperUK posted:Can you give a very general idea of your location? Which country, which state? Nobody can answer unless we know those things. USA, central Texas (Austin) E: saw the embrace autism site but idk how people with autism feel about a naturopath diagnosing autism. Or self diagnosing. I don’t really even know if it matters. Maybe I’ll take some self assessments and see what they say. Also found a new lead nearby after searching some more, I’ll send them an email and see what happens. Sorry if this isn’t the right thread biceps crimes fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Apr 22, 2023 |
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 18:59
|
|
|
So, most assessments beyond schooling age are done by private clinics, and the actual diagnostic would need to be done by an appropriate professional (generally a psychologist of some description). I'd first ask your insurance about referring you to a clinic-- not all insurance covers ASD diagnostics, and those that do don't always cover them for adults, but there's a chance yours does and if so you'll want to work through them. Even if you're going out of pocket, the list they give you is a good steering point. Go down that list, checking to see if they work with adults who are requesting a diagnostic for themselves. If you don't see that information, call or email them to ask. Unfortunately, a lot of places don't evaluate adults, because a) awareness of adult autism is very young and b) the autism industrial complex is hyper focused on diagnosing and treating school aged children. That said, you're in a major metro area, so you've got a good chance of finding a practitioner willing to work with you. If you strike out, try contacting psychology departments at major research universities with associated hospitals. If you have to put yourself on a wait list, do it -- the worst outcome is you find someone sooner and have to call to cancel. All that said, the marginal benefit of an evaluation isn't that high. You won't gain access to any medication or particular therapies you couldn't access otherwise, so the only reasons to go for a formal diagnosis are for your own self understanding or to access disability accommodations under the ADA. That's not to dissuade you-- if you want to seek evaluation you should totally do so. But at least it's a good thing to keep in the back of your mind if your process takes longer than you expect.
|
|
#
?
Apr 22, 2023 20:26
|
|
|
As someone who was late diagnosed with ASD (38), what Quorum posted is pretty much spot on. My therapist was the one who ordered me to get a psychological evaluation, as she didn't think my previous diagnosis of Bipolar fit the person she'd treated for a year. She was kind of shocked with the ASD diagnosis but I really wasn't. If you've got decent or better healthcare, it'd be worth seeing a therapist first to discuss and then have the therapist order the psych eval, as that allowed for my insurance to take the $700 hit that I had already budgeted FSA money for. Beyond that, my experience was that my psychologist doesn't do adult autism diagnoses, but does have extensive experience with diagnosing children with autism, so she had to reach out to a colleague who specializes in adult autism to discuss my results before coming back with a "mild ASD" diagnosis. I really feel like my experience was super easy/positive but also very out of the norm, so take that as you will. For me, the benefit of knowing that a whole bunch of things I've struggled connecting the dots with throughout my life was huge. I've been diagnosed as moder/severe ADHD since I was like 6 years old, so I've always known I'm DEFINITELY neurodiverse, but there were always a ton of "unexplained" parts of me and previously, bipolar kinda fit the bill but thinking back, naw. ADHD, ASD, anxiety, depression though? Makes perfect sense and we've developed a treatment plan to begin tackling the things that are holding me back from making progress in other areas, like identifying and learning to communicate my emotions better. Working on that is going to go a LONG way to helping myself set better boundaries and form better bonds with the people I care about.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 15:47
|
|
|
I've started job searching because I'm completely burnt out on my current job (and tired of healthcare in general.) However, I want to switch careers back to what I originally wanted to do (work in publishing, mostly related to editing & clerical stuff) but that's drat near impossible with the current job market (in the US specifically.) I'm trying to reach out to old contacts, but since I'm garbage at keeping up relationships, they're probably just gonna ignore me and/or not see the reach-out at all. I don't know if I'm asking for advice or just venting, but the last two weeks have been so stressful & with so many meltdowns on my part (I started crying on the phone with my boss at one point last week.) I wish I was better at networking, but I feel like a giant liar and I'm not great at explaining my skill set. I'm fairly certain I'm hitting the wall of autistic burnout AGAIN, and the last time that happened, I was homebound for nearly 3 years. I don't want that to happen again, but I still need to work to pay my bills/mortgage.
|
|
#
?
Apr 23, 2023 17:51
|
|
|
SetsunaMeioh posted:I've started job searching because I'm completely burnt out on my current job (and tired of healthcare in general.) However, I want to switch careers back to what I originally wanted to do (work in publishing, mostly related to editing & clerical stuff) but that's drat near impossible with the current job market (in the US specifically.) Keep with it with the old contacts, and don't assume the worst right away. Quite some time ago I was in a similar situation watching the company I was with rocketing downhill and I needed to jump ship: I reached out to a bunch of former coworkers I hadn't spoken to in years and there was a moment of "oh hey it's Iridium, he was great to work with, we have a position open over here". People will remember you. If you have LinkedIn, the Worst Social Media Network, try messaging a few that you were on good terms with. And post to the timeline from time to time, not necessarily saying "THIS poo poo SUCKS GET ME OUT OF HERE" or whatever, but a comment now and then about what you've been working on and maybe what you hope to be working on, or whatever dumb bullshit. That'll keep your name a tad fresher in people's minds, may spark a few to reach out. If you don't have LinkedIn, it's worth the headache for this kind of thing. I hate it so much but it does make this kind of lifting and maintaining work contacts easier. It's horrible that those of us that are bad at this sort of thing are stuck having to play this particular game, but this is the game and those are the rules, or at least those are the elite stratz for it.
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2023 13:53
|
|
|
To be honest, one of the most consistent traits among my ND relationships has been that neither party minds picking up with the friendship where we left off. I've had friends who I haven't seen in almost a decade reach out and we would go grab dinner and catch up and it was back to where it was before, just a different set of obstacles for us to be aware of, like kids, careers, etc. And I've had people that worked on my team when I was a team leader reach out like 3-4 years after the fact, wanting to get back into IT and needing someone who can vouch that they are capable. I'm always glad to step up and do that for people who I worked with, so long as you weren't actively awful. My last three jobs have come from people I either worked with at the time, or people I had worked with prior who loved working with me and wanted me to find a home at their new company. I definitely recommend just hitting some people up that you know are in your field or even doing a general post on Facebook to a limited audience
|
|
#
?
Apr 25, 2023 14:20
|
|
|
Yeah, I've got LinkedIn & have reached out to some people, but no response yet. I don't really post on there though because I don't know what to say & if what's appropriate or not. It's an issue I have in the workplace in general, since my form of masking means making myself as invisible as possible to avoid embarrassment/shame. In the job search, all I've been getting are healthcare recruiters trying to offer me short contract jobs with no health insurance (who try to convince me that most places would make me permanent,) but I'm not going to any job without having insurance, especially since I'm on ADHD meds now. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 07:59
|
|
|
LinkedIn is a fuckin' cesspool as far as posting/content goes, but it's extremely useful for networking and keeping in touch with professional contacts
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 14:32
|
|
|
I struggle with navigating Linkedin. Like Indeed makes uploading your resume so easy. Sure, my art background is a bit confusing for the computers, and I had to manually input a lot of the information, but it was easy. As for Linkedin, I am not even sure if I have my resume up or not.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 19:05
|
|
|
SetsunaMeioh posted:Yeah, I've got LinkedIn & have reached out to some people, but no response yet. I don't really post on there though because I don't know what to say & if what's appropriate or not. It's an issue I have in the workplace in general, since my form of masking means making myself as invisible as possible to avoid embarrassment/shame. I just loaded it up to look for a quick example and top of the timeline is a friend's photo posing in a design firm's brand t-shirt commenting on how much she likes it. I haven't spoken to her in a while, but my boss was looking for a new manager and I wonder... so just accidentally had exactly the experience I'm trying to describe here. Don't give it too much thought (absolutely nobody does at all tbh), you don't need to write a novel in there. I don't recommend selfies of course, but something to the tune of "We just implemented <product>, looking forward to getting to grips with it" or "I've been struggling with a way to organize my documentation, anyone have any suggestions" or a couple quick paragraphs about something about work that's on your mind. Throw around a few likes on posts from people you haven't heard from lately, remind them you're there. And try to ignore the properly dumb bullshit that will still fill in a good 80% of it, reposting dumb 'motivational' elon musk quotes or some poo poo, that way lies madness.
|
|
#
?
Apr 26, 2023 19:10
|
|
|
SetsunaMeioh posted:I've started job searching because I'm completely burnt out on my current job (and tired of healthcare in general.) However, I want to switch careers back to what I originally wanted to do (work in publishing, mostly related to editing & clerical stuff) but that's drat near impossible with the current job market (in the US specifically.) Have you looked into medical writing at all? It’d be one way to get back towards publishing/editing where the healthcare background would be a benefit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 27, 2023 18:46
|
|
|
Engineer Lenk posted:Have you looked into medical writing at all? It’d be one way to get back towards publishing/editing where the healthcare background would be a benefit. I have looked up medical editing, which I prefer over coming up with writing itself. There seems to be classes that people offer but much like regular publishing, employers seem to want 3-5 years experience for entry level jobs. I'll keep looking into it though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 15:50
|
|
|
SetsunaMeioh posted:I have looked up medical editing, which I prefer over coming up with writing itself. There seems to be classes that people offer but much like regular publishing, employers seem to want 3-5 years experience for entry level jobs. I'll keep looking into it though. One thing I’ve learned about the entry level 3-5 year experience is that it is often a preferred rather than required element; if you make it past the HR screener you’ll be judged on your merits. CRO work is soul-sucking and relentless, but it’s a good way to get a foot in the door to get over that experience hurdle. There’s relatively little novel writing that the medical writers I’ve worked with actually do; they are usually working to plug results into a template or rework sections initially drafted by a subject matter expert.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 17:06
|
|
|
Does anyone remember back in 2009 or 2010 when it seemed like the forums was embracing Asperger's as a self diagnosis? I vaguely remember that and a backlash of "no you're just self diagnosing because you're a weird goon who's looking for an excuse to keep being a weird goon". I was thinking about that a bit recently and how I somewhat remember identifying with the conversation but also really taking the "stop looking for a magic excuse just bootstraps yourself into being normal" reaction kept me from seriously considering my own neurodivergence for a good decade.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 18:23
|
|
|
I do remember that. Harsh times! But even then any stigma felt was outweighed by the liberating feeling of putting a name and treatment plan to a lifelong condition, previously undefinable.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 18:49
|
|
|
Engineer Lenk posted:There’s relatively little novel writing that the medical writers I’ve worked with actually do; they are usually working to plug results into a template or rework sections initially drafted by a subject matter expert. This is most of technical writing, honestly; you're rarely the originator of content because you don't have the incredibly niche knowledge required, you're just taking an article drafted by someone who doesn't know how punctuation works and sets each line on a different list level at random and formatting it to adhere to house style and comprehensible spelling and grammar.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 18:52
|
|
|
Fuschia tude posted:This is most of technical writing, honestly; you're rarely the originator of content because you don't have the incredibly niche knowledge required, you're just taking an article drafted by someone who doesn't know how punctuation works and sets each line on a different list level at random and formatting it to adhere to house style and comprehensible spelling and grammar. Anecdotally it seems like 50+% of people in my field (statistics) have English as a secondary or lower language, usually with their mother tongue in a completely different linguistic group. I am continually impressed with how well they communicate technical concepts (I wouldn’t do half as well if I was trying to write in French), but it does sometimes help to have an expert in English clean things up.
|
|
#
?
Apr 28, 2023 21:41
|
|
|
Soylent Pudding posted:Does anyone remember back in 2009 or 2010 when it seemed like the forums was embracing Asperger's as a self diagnosis? I vaguely remember that and a backlash of "no you're just self diagnosing because you're a weird goon who's looking for an excuse to keep being a weird goon". I’ve been talking with a friend of mine lately about something similar with the rise in ADHD diagnosis. I absolutely remember the Spergin Forums days and I too related to a bunch of that convo but convinced myself I’m far too social to fit the criteria. Welp turns out I have mild ASD. But as I was telling my friend, it’s tough to hear people you might think aren’t sharing symptoms with you talking about something you’re struggling with. HOWEVER , it’s a great moment to build and teach compassion, and a great way to frame the message of ‘Yeah so like, we don’t gotta make comments when people do weird poo poo. We’re all weird’
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2023 14:13
|
|
|
Made a big post about how I deal with overexplaining and the fear of being misunderstood, in E/N's braindump thread, and thought it might be helpful for y'all, too.girl dick energy posted:I struggle with this, too. My big two steps towards being better about it were
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2023 00:51
|
|
|
girl dick energy posted:Made a big post about how I deal with overexplaining and the fear of being misunderstood, in E/N's braindump thread, and thought it might be helpful for y'all, too. I like this post a lot. The whole idea of microdeceptions to help keep conversation flowing is a great way to think about it, and honestly learning "the script" of how to navigate small talk without giving up too much is what really changed my social interactions for me. Learning that you can just talk about pets, or sports, or something else that isn't necessarily my personal stuff like my emotions or relationships or whatever allowed me to be able to navigate the awkward early stages of meeting people, helped me get an idea of the type of person they are before I start sharing more personal details beyond "I live here, been with my girlfriend/partner for 8 years, we got some cats, I love X Y and Z'. A Thing to remember when you're worried about being misunderstood is that if someone isn't willing or able to give you the space to better clarify yourself, that's a really good tell that they may not be a good fit for you. We are going to consistently and constantly need to clarify things, whether it's why we behaved a certain way or why we said something a certain way, whatever it might be. But knowing that a person is going to stop and listen and make sure they 'get it' before moving on is a good sign that they will be worth continuing to have conversation with.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2023 14:47
|
|
|
My ADHD hyperfocus on socializing and people forced me to, idk, learn how to be a strongly social person while still maintaining a very strong wall that only let's in people I've deemed safe. I had times in the past where I thought someone was a safe person to have close to me, only to be hurt by them when they essentially tried to get me to change core parts of who I am. End of the day though, I'm extremely loving lucky to have strong social connections with amazingly understanding people
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2023 14:50
|
|
|
A bunch of people have mentioned masking but it's really not the word I'd use to describe what I do. I do try to accommodate not-autistic people by doing things like making eye contact but I don't feel like I shove who I am aside, or hide who I am. I really just try to make non-autists more comfortable with me by trying to adhere to some of their rules. There's also the factor that being myself seems to work in my favour in more circumstances than not. A lot of online folk seem to dislike me, but who honestly gives a poo poo about that. There's people in my actual life who like and enjoy me and I move in social circles in which I found most people will just accept me and let me be me.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2023 21:53
|
|
|
That's the lovely thing about masking, it won't actually make people accept you. Someone recently explained this to me in the context of face blindness (I have that at least somewhat), that for people who don't have that, they'll notice all the details about someone's face, form, bone structure, nose, mouth, etc subconsciusly and the brain combines all these impressions into the memory of a person's face, so they'll be able to recognize that person even on one of those biometric passport pictures. I always thought those only worked for computers, because ever since they were required, people have talked about how unrecognizable they are on those pictures, but I guess that wasn't actually true? So most people would actually be able to tell "something feels off here" when comparing someone to a biometric passport picture that wasn't them. They wouldn't be able to outright state "These cheeckbones are different", but they'd know it was different. Masking works the same way. I imitate as much as I possibly can about how people are supposed to work, and on a superficial level I pass, but eventually people are going to notice that something about the way I speak, my facial expressions, etc, feels unnatural. They won't be able to tell what it is, but it feels off and makes them uncomfortable. The thing is, what you're describing, consciously adapting yourself to make it easier for people to relate to, that seems pretty harmless to me. You're putting in a bit of extra effort, hopefully not enough to exhaust you, to make people feel more at ease. If it just stopped there, that'd be fine. But for me it doesn't. As far as I can tell, I started masking around the time I started elementary school out of necessity. It wasn't just limited to facial expressions, I'll copy as much of the other person as possible. Signal them "I'm just like you! I'm harmless! Please don't bully me!". And then I just hate myself for it. Because I don't want to be like everybody else. I want to be myself and like being myself, but my entire life has been people showing me that being myself is wrong and that I'm wrong and that the only way I'll ever be even marginally accepted on the outside of a group instead of relentlessly bullied is to be the exact person they want me to be. The worst part is, nobody has ever noticed that I'm copying them. They like it. I behave like them, the person they like best, that's a good thing. Kind of wonder what that feels like.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2023 09:04
|
|
|
I've faced rejection all the way through school, up till uni when it was finally okay for other people to be who I was, for some reason. I just didn't make the connection that I was facing rejection because I am so different until much later. Also, on a fundamental level I refuse to bow to the unhinged assholes who scream at the top of their lungs that I should kill myself. It's still really upsetting when it happens, mind you. But I just can't accept that I should try to accomodate them.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2023 10:07
|
|
|
I grew up very much internalising that masking was the 'right' thing to do to make other people comfortable, but here's the flaw in that plan: Masking involves behaving in a way that you think other people will be comfortable with. In order for this to work, you have to know what behaviour people expect. You're not a mind reader. In fact you're not even a good social cues reader. And if you did know what behaviour people expected of you, you wouldn't need to mask, would you? Given a long enough timeline I will say or do something that crosses a social boundary I didn't realise was there. That's one of the central traits of the disability I have. I can mask and play it safe, I can try not to be weird, but the point is I can't ever really know what to not do. If I did I wouldn't be autistic! Masking is exhausting. Imagine telling a neurotypical person to go to a party and not talk about the things they're interested in. Telling them to smile when they don't feel like smiling. Pretend to be comfortable with someone who's stare feels like it's boring into the centre of their skull. They'd run screaming from the room in five minutes. I am very lucky to have a wife and friends that accept my weirdness (or at least seem to) and I realise not everyone has that opportunity, but masking is fine for an hour or so at family gatherings, it's no way to try and regularly interact with people for work or friendships.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2023 14:54
|
|
|
There's a large difference in masking between people who are perceived as female and other people, too. At least a difference in how much of it people expect. It's not always possible to drop the mask even if you're trying to be true to yourself because you'll end up outcast and possibly even in danger, depending on the situation. I suppose this is also true for people who are perceived as male actually, but I feel like there's a difference. I read that this is part of why girls and women are so much less likely to be diagnosed; they're covering it up better. Not because they want to, because they have to. I was thinking about how often I got told I was 'very opinionated' as a little girl. It was a lot.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2023 16:20
|
|
|
Yeah, I definitely feel the part about masking being exhausting. Fortunately my workplace started WFH home during the pandemic and will keep it up, but for a while we did one in-office day a week. I never really recognized just how exhausting it was until then: Every time I came home from an in-office day I was loving beat, basically incapable of doing anything else that would require focus for the rest of the day. It's not even necessarily a matter of active masking behaviours, as we mostly just sat in front of our respective computers, but the way I'd have to be constantly watching myself, of feeling like I always had to be "on".
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2023 18:54
|
|
|
So I've been noodling for a while about something, trying to parse out why I'm so different from people, and I heard in an ad for a systems engineering online course: "People think in terms of stories, not systems" as a reason to pay for said course. But I already think in terms of systems, and it started way before I got into STEM nerd poo poo. It's always just sort of been, and I can't communicate that to normies without them getting real ...bothered(?) threatened(???) It's like life is a magic eye puzzle or something, and I can't help but cross my eyes and see poo poo that normies don't. Being on SA in the first place probably contributes but it's only in retrospect of a really stressful year that I'm accepting "maybe I didn't make myself crazy, I was always different?" I don't want to be wrong about why I'm weird though...
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2023 14:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 1, 2024 15:50 |
|
|
Car Hater posted:So I've been noodling for a while about something, trying to parse out why I'm so different from people, and I heard in an ad for a systems engineering online course: "People think in terms of stories, not systems" as a reason to pay for said course. Sounds about right, most of my more stressful interactions have been where someone else seemed like they had a story about what was going to happen in their head and I just had a job to do. Recently I helped to clean out my nanas house after she moved into a care home, with some assistance from my uncle. My uncle felt that "the story" was that young nephew (38 I am, so I'm not so sure about young) would turn up, follow old fellas instructions and spend all week shuffling things around at his 60 year old pace. He was disappointed that this clashed with the system me and mum had already figured out where I turned up with a truck and removed all the furniture in one day (six hour round trip, one day, lots of furniture, not fun), and he was left to finish the cleanup and transport the carload of various boxes that he hadn't finished packing yet. It didn't turn into a huge thing because we're mostly pretty reasonable people who try to be polite to each other, but it was also pretty clear that despite knowing the exact plan beforehand, the story in his head didn't match that and he was finding it difficult to reconcile reality with the story in his head. Lots of huffing and generally making things difficult because it wasn't matching the story he told himself , snd after he was dropped at mum and dads for the night I ended up having a pretty severe melt down (stress, exhaustion and trying to manage a lot of interactions with various family members who don't know about my diagnosis). my partner had to come and find me at three in the morning, I was just a rocking crying mess in the backyard. All that to say that the stories people tell themselves rarely seem to align with reality, or practicality, and I've never been able to easily reconcile that world view with my own. It limits me in certain ways, I'm useless at sales for example, because no matter what I do, I can't seem to make what I'm selling fit "the story" that people want to hear except in the most vague and general sense. On the other hand moving a lot of heavy stuff is usually a very simple system that I can hammer through much faster than other people IF I don't also have to manage the story they're telling themself about how it "should" be done.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2023 01:41
|
|
