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So I wonder if they’re gonna change Verin since she does very little on screen in the books and it’s mostly the Black Ajah reveal that cements why people like her.
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May 15, 2023 21:01
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Shageletic posted:I'm reading Eye of the World right now and it's definitely not generic. The speech about Manatheren, the brutality and tenseness of the action scenes, the way that Emond's Field feels like a real live place, its as good as it gets for epic fantasy. It is OF a genre, but an exceptional case of it. It was a successful book, and definitely it did things well, but the basic narrative structure of having five villagers flee an evil force, aided by a powerful mage, and facing a prophesied destiny, is derivative. That RJ executed the details well is what made the first book a success. I think it also enabled the later books, from TGH onward, to find more of their own voice. TGH, by comparison, felt much more unique as a book to me and had some genuinely strange, fantastical, and even shocking moments. The narrative structure is more complex but also better executed, particularly the last fifth of the book.
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May 15, 2023 21:15
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Invalid Validation posted:So I wonder if they’re gonna change Verin since she does very little on screen in the books and it’s mostly the Black Ajah reveal that cements why people like her. She's around quite a bit in the early books, and her whole "distracted Brown" routine clearly being a cover for a sharp mind determined to meddle in things for an uncertain purpose makes her very interesting. The Black Ajah reveal is certainly cool but I wouldn't say it's the largest part of people's affection for her.
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May 15, 2023 22:13
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What's funny is there is this huge "what if VERIN is black ajah??  " pall looming over most of the girls' interactions with her in Book 3.By the time you get to the end you've all but forgotten about it so it's somehow still out of left field
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May 15, 2023 22:17
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Page 192 of TEOFW Thom just does his dagger come out of the air trick. And then there's this quick bit of description. quote:A low, delighted laugh floated from Moiraine Lol that Thom made her laugh that early. No wonder they were an item.
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May 15, 2023 22:35
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Shageletic posted:Page 192 of TEOFW Thom just does his dagger come out of the air trick. The "it came out of left field" about them never made sense to me
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May 15, 2023 22:37
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Shageletic posted:Page 192 of TEOFW Thom just does his dagger come out of the air trick. My memory ain't what it used to be. Did Thom dagger Moiraine?
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May 15, 2023 22:40
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Hughmoris posted:My memory ain't what it used to be. Did Thom dagger Moiraine? Depends on if that's a euphemism or not
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May 15, 2023 22:41
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She also was dancing and having a good time. The whole dichotomy of Moiraine being a normal person vs stern inscrutable wizard is just because from the two river's boys PoV she is second one and it doesn't even occur to them that she is just like, a person. Same thing comes up later when Perrin is all "I think an enemy is following me. This girl keeps staring at me" and she has to explain the birds and the bees.
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May 15, 2023 22:43
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silvergoose posted:The "it came out of left field" about them never made sense to me I mean, she's gone from the series for 8 books. It's not hard to forget or at least have your mind ignore one or two scenes that happened between Moiraine and Tom. It's not out of nowhere but understandable why people think it is.
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May 16, 2023 01:59
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I absolutely do not see wolves, but there's honestly not enough detail to tell https://twitter.com/thedustywheel/status/1658289173554688000
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May 16, 2023 03:01
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I like the Ogier monocle of farseeing theory and also the slim poison vial one 
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May 16, 2023 12:24
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CainFortea posted:And yet plenty of people who didn't read the books liked the mystery. So it did seem like having it there was a good thing overall. This is impossible to know since we don't have an A/B. Sure some non readers liked it, but who knows if they would have liked it more knowing who the Dragon was but getting more character development?
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May 16, 2023 14:19
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Shageletic posted:Continuing my reread Jordan really did have a great handle on descriptive writing that convinced you were im a different time and place. Just details like using oak in a fire because it lasts longer is such great first person narration. he did what to narg?!
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May 16, 2023 14:39
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I finished the books a little while back, having been prompted to read them by the TV show. I loved the series; even the much-maligned "slog" didn't bother me too much, though I have a lot of patience for slow stuff, and of course not having to wait for a new release to crack on when finishing a book was an optimal state of affairs. Felt very liberating to suddenly be able to watch all the Youtube vids and read all the articles I wanted, which I had previously studiously avoided for fear of any spoilers. It also compromised my enjoyment of the TV show a fair bit when I rewatched it after the books. Man, they changed so much. I guess they can be cut some slack given the Barney Harris/Covid factors, but still some of the alterations were weird. One thing I think they thoroughly nailed was the casting. It's pretty much excellent throughout, from the Two Rivers kids, to Moiraine, Lan, Loial, Ishamael - just top notch. Loving the casting for the next series too, and am particularly excited to see Meera Syal. She's been very well known in the UK for a long time, mostly for TV comedy work, but the BAFTA Fellowship award she just won shows how generally well liked she is over here and what a strong overall career she's had. Delighted for her to have gotten this role. Now announce a release date for S2 damnit, Amazon - it's getting ridiculous.
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May 16, 2023 15:18
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ChubbyChecker posted:he did what to narg?! I mean, you could call it slash fic.
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May 16, 2023 15:22
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OneSizeFitsAll posted:; even the much-maligned "slog" didn't bother me too much, The slog is a lot more tolerable once you don't have to wait for the next book. Those of us who read on release had to spend years waiting for a book and then nothing happened in it. Mat got buried under a wall at the end of book 7 and wasn't seen again for almost half a decade. Faile's captivity and rescue took just as long and was even more annoying for being in the books.
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May 16, 2023 15:38
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Skyl3lazer posted:This is impossible to know since we don't have an A/B. Sure some non readers liked it, but who knows if they would have liked it more knowing who the Dragon was but getting more character development? I wasn't making an a/b comparison. The mystery of it worked. Clearly it did given how popular the show was. Could it have been better the other way? Possibly. But trying to suss out that comparison is meaningless because we don't have the other way to compare it against.
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May 16, 2023 15:43
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ChubbyChecker posted:he did what to narg?! don't ask don't tell don't narg Anyvays got to Min's reading and meeting of Rand and this is such a wealth of inferences for a second time reader its insane. It's crazy how much is foreshadowed and spelled out in it (three mourning ladies, the crown of Illian, etc) and then there's the whole other subtext of Min finding out she's marrying this young farmer and grinning and laughing to herself like a freak causing Rand to freak out in turn and want to get the hell out of there. So glad I decided to pick these books up again a couple decades after first reading them.
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May 16, 2023 16:51
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I pick new stuff up most times I reread it and lemme tell you I've read these books a lot of times, haha
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May 16, 2023 17:46
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I mean, you could call it slash fic.
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May 16, 2023 19:37
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Invalid Validation posted:So I wonder if they’re gonna change Verin since she does very little on screen in the books and it’s mostly the Black Ajah reveal that cements why people like her. Verin was a fan favorite long before that. She's a very well drawn and likeable character and she's just ambiguous enough to keep people guessing.
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May 16, 2023 19:45
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"should I give these notes to Egwene? Ehhhh. Should I burn them? Maybe, but I hate destroying knowledge..."
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May 16, 2023 20:21
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verin is a reminder that if you need to bind your dark and evil secret society to a blood oath, always retain counsel to review the language first
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May 16, 2023 20:30
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Compulsion isnt forbidden so is the only explicit tell in book 2?
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May 16, 2023 20:39
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:Compulsion isnt forbidden so is the only explicit tell in book 2? I think it's book 4 when she thinks to herself "that should follow the oaths" or something, but she's pretty clearly always been playing an angle of some sort
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May 16, 2023 20:53
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I think it's book 4 when she thinks to herself "that should follow the oaths" or something, but she's pretty clearly always been playing an angle of some sort I mean, in book two when she tells Rand and co that Moiraine sent her, and later in the book Moiraine mentions that she did no such thing. These two things are like, 30 chapters apart and she's a very likable character so most people miss it on their first pass. Just an outright lie.
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May 16, 2023 23:21
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:I mean, in book two when she tells Rand and co that Moiraine sent her, and later in the book Moiraine mentions that she did no such thing. These two things are like, 30 chapters apart and she's a very likable character so most people miss it on their first pass. Just an outright lie. Not really though. Since it's all about truth as the speaker perceives it, not objective truth of the universe. Moiraine said "Then we must find the dagger, Sister. Agelmar is sending men to hunt those who took the Horn and slew his oathmen, the same who took the dagger. If one is found, the other will be" This is very clearly saying "We need to go find the dagger with Ingtar." And Verin feels she's part of "We".
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May 16, 2023 23:28
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Oh I didn't realize that quote was 30 chapters later, thanks. No wonder people think the books are drawn out. It's explicit foretelling and verin is black ajah. This isn't rocket science
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May 17, 2023 03:42
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Might as well say moraine forgot and disregard everything in the text as unreliable. Maybe write a show after
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May 17, 2023 03:49
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It is not explicit. You don't know what the word "explicit" means if you keep using it that way. Although given your entire lack of comprehension about this book series I suppose it's not surprising.
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May 17, 2023 03:54
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Verin was a fan favorite long before that. She's a very well drawn and likeable character and she's just ambiguous enough to keep people guessing. Too subtle for TV though
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May 17, 2023 09:48
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CainFortea posted:And yet plenty of people who didn't read the books liked the mystery. So it did seem like having it there was a good thing overall. Are you really still trying to convince the thread there was no love triangle? Thought it was pretty firmly established you were the only poster in here with that opinion the last time you brought it up.
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May 18, 2023 12:41
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I don't remember thinking there was an actual love triangle, just some idiots jumping to conclusions, which describes most wheel of time characters so I didn't really mind the episode
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May 18, 2023 12:46
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There was no love triangle at all. Just a very brief scene where everybody's reacting to their worst fears being screamed in their head. One of which was very clearly lying about what his actual worst fear was.
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May 18, 2023 13:20
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silvergoose posted:I don't remember thinking there was an actual love triangle, just some idiots jumping to conclusions, which describes most wheel of time characters so I didn't really mind the episode That reminds me of a great idea I had. It was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat. It would be this mat that you would put on the floor, and it would have different conclusions written on it that you could jump to! Maybe it could be WoT themed.
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May 18, 2023 13:27
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CainFortea's schtick was that since the "love triangle plot" didn't conclude in a love triangle, that we all just imagined the hints the show kept dropping of Perrin's attraction to Egwene, and that the big fight about it in episode 7 came out of thin air. When in reality the show very deliberately built up the drama of a potential love triangle from episode 1 and onward.
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May 18, 2023 13:42
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yeah, there was a needless love triangle
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May 18, 2023 13:47
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Maybe stop picking fights with specific posters? There was probably some attraction somewhere between platonic and childhood crush from Perrin, in my view, and Nynaeve and/or Rand took a glance as proof of desire, which also is incredibly Wheel of Time.
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May 18, 2023 13:50
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You all need to re-watch the show. They very deliberately start dropping hints as early as the 13 minute mark of episode 1, that at minimum Perrin has been carrying a torch for Egwene. The scene where Nynaeve scolds Perrin for leaving his wife at the forge all day, while he's been at the inn to "celebrate Egwene". And the scene ends with him giving Egwene a long stare, then cuts to him and his wife at the forge. And there's obviously tension between the two of them over Egwene.
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May 18, 2023 13:59
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