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Gojo getting imprisoned is cool to me because the power ceiling of the series is pretty well intact which is something most mangaka fail to accomplish. It's just the big cast flip I think didn't totally work. There's fun new characters I like but I don't get to see them play off the cast I know because most of them were maimed or killed or put into a less declared plot stasis.
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May 23, 2023 14:04
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the storytelling has been pretty messy post-shibuya yeah. too many plot threads going at once and it's been a bit unfocused. a lot of new characters introduced and old ones killed for seemingly little reason. there's a lot of stuff that's felt rushed too, weird stuff thrown suddenly like that chapter with hana's backstory i don't think it's been terrible but it's been a noticeable step down for sure
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May 23, 2023 14:04
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Tosk posted:Honestly, even though I agree that JJK is having a hard time fully sticking its landing with this back third or so of the manga, I disagree with a lot of your points. Ignoring where you're just saying "why did you kill this character I liked," I agree that Gojo's imprisonment, which was basically the motor of the story the whole time considering Kenjaku's plans, had a pretty lukewarm payout, and Gege's treatment of the women in JJK has turned out pretty dire with the trifecta of Nobara, Tsukumo and Tsumiki. I don't think JJK was ever set up to be a massive sprawling epic. That is part of the problem. It had a strong small focused cast and even when it began to suffer from bloat it was never really at the point where it felt overly bloated because the characters felt more 'lived in.' Since the Culling Game it's basically started to try to branch out to a wider cast of characters but it's coming so late in the story that it feels kind of weird and pointless. Like some of the power sets are cool but almost everything just feels like a plot device more than a character. The problem with a comparison to something like HXH is that HXH kept a fairly straightforward focus and when it introduced new characters it was because they were relevant in some fashion. Everything past the Culling Game arc has just felt so unfocused and pretty much none of the new characters have either landed or stuck around meaningfully long enough to be anything but plot devices (even if they're funny ones.) You can cull your cast down to almost nothing and rebuild it up but you have to actually succeed at building it back up and everything feels too rushed for that at this point so most of the cast is just kind of there. I don't think people would be wanting old characters to return as much if the new characters felt like characters. It's also not hard to compare it to something like Chainsaw Man which went through its cast like, well, a chainsaw but managed to make it feel more meaningful when it did. Like honestly The Culling Game spent more time on the fuckin' gatcha superpower than it did on Hana as a character despite Hana being presented as important and relevant and characters worrying she's 'replacing' other characters and all of that and despite all of that Hana seems barely there as a character despite this entire arc theoretically being about her!
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May 23, 2023 14:07
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Yeah I agree, it would have been better if Gege found a way to keep the plot focused on the characters he introduced in the first half, I just don't think his willingness to kill them off is a bad thing. I agree that the quality has suffered with all these characters basically being introduced for the fights they die in. It seems like too many moving parts were introduced to the story and he couldn't bring them all together. It's a shame because it looks like Gege just wants to hurtle as fast as possible towards the finish line at this point, but who can blame him, this industry seems loving brutal. I'll definitely be paying attention to whatever he does after JJK and I hope he's not a one-hit wonder because as far as first non-oneshots go, this has been a great one to start a career.
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May 23, 2023 14:15
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Asuron posted:Uhhh that’s not indicative of pacing issues. I agree with you. Time skipping "in universe" is not indicative of pacing issues*, the story beats being skipped is indicative of pacing issues. Really, really weird how much stuff just got wrapped up offscreen in the past few chapters and the abrupt end of the culling game plot. How much time it took in universe is honestly irrelevant compared to the plot lines being cut off/wrapped up. *Spoilering this because its not really related to JJK - I feel like people who enjoy fiction as works of verisimilitude akin to viewing a documentary of stuff that actually happened vs a story with structure, plot, narrative, etc may take issue with time skips because to them they are missing out on chunks of time where things should be happening and they should be able to see it. This leads to things like the current and former Star Wars EU just backfilling in every free bit of time for all characters so you have an unimpeded history of their time in the narrative world, often to the detriment of good story telling.
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May 23, 2023 16:05
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I also think this arc will read better when it’s animated. These massive 6-7 chapter fights will feel better when they become 1 1/2 episodes. Honestly Gege is reigning in his story, which is impossible to do without leaving stuff unresolved or rushed. I think post Megumi twist the manga has felt a bit better
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May 23, 2023 16:16
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Megumi getting body jacked was like a defibrillator of excitement to the manga that flatlined again once his sister croaked in the most grodiest and tone deaf fight in modern shonen jump history
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May 23, 2023 16:54
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I just hope they give the proper time and respect towards animating the guy whose primary Jujutsu-power is having a propeller from a helicopter on his head. Like- yes- we lost Todo and Nobara, but that's lightning in a bottle, Mappa.
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May 23, 2023 17:06
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I fell like Gege could do a really strong anthology series focused around tight battles and individual character stories. The Higuruma fight was one of the highlights of the culling game because it presented a really compelling snapshot of Cursed Phoenix Wright's life and futile struggle against crushing societal pressure. It also integrated very well into the overall storyline by using it as an in to explore Yuji's own sense of guilt. The series is at its strongest when exploring how modern curses arise from the lovely mundane pressures of the modern world, and it's puzzling that the culling game, premised around pitting reincarnated vs. modern sorcerers, doesn't play more with the thematic tensions. Like, he's clearly aware of it but it's collapsing under the pressure of pulling together a Big World-Threatening storyline. Hell, give us a prequel monster-of-the-week series starring Nanami (the perfect vessel for exploring these themes).
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May 23, 2023 17:20
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:I fell like Gege could do a really strong anthology series focused around tight battles and individual character stories. The Higuruma fight was one of the highlights of the culling game because it presented a really compelling snapshot of Cursed Phoenix Wright's life and futile struggle against crushing societal pressure. It also integrated very well into the overall storyline by using it as an in to explore Yuji's own sense of guilt. Yeah the Judgeman stuff was the highlight. Just a genuinely interesting story that tied into a major part of the main character's story.
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May 23, 2023 18:07
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ImpAtom posted:The problem with a comparison to something like HXH is that HXH kept a fairly straightforward focus and when it introduced new characters it was because they were relevant in some fashion. I get what you're gettig at but this is a weird way to express it, HxH has the biggest cast I can remember in any mainstream shonen I read. It always spent a huge amount of time to explain what's going on in the head of any character and the context to go with it. The four main characters, Hisoka, the Zoaldyck family, the spiders, the ant extermination squad, the ants, the princes on the ship. Hell we were left hanging watching events unfold from the point of view of a completely new character!
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May 23, 2023 19:21
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Nuebot posted:One piece is basically the only shonen battle series in recent memory that didn't spin wildly out of control, then crash and burn to some degree. It's just kind of a genre wide issue where their big climactic final arcs usually suck rear end, and all the little problems that have been bubbling under the surface just kind of take precedence and become impossible to ignore. Naruto had its awful zombie war poo poo, Bleach had its stupid nazi god power war poo poo, hero academia has its invincible villain war poo poo, even Dragon Ball Z had the Buu saga where basically every character just kind of shrugs off all of their character progression to act like assholes and do nothing of importance for most of the arc. Eh, that's kind of a matter of personal taste. I'd say that One Piece only avoided issues by choosing to spin its wheels indefinitely (and I've never found it particularly compelling, largely due to not really liking the core cast). I think that Naruto will actually end up looking pretty good in hindsight in the longer run, at least for a long-running shounen series that was completed. Its general art and character designs were a big step above most other series (which is why it became so popular to begin with), and while it's ending arc wasn't good, I don't think it was "so bad it retroactively sours the series as a whole." Bleach is an example of something that really went to poo poo to such an extent. And I think MHA's current end-game is worse than Naruto's, because it's hard to even clearly follow what's happening. The other class of popular shounen seems to be stuff like Demon Slayer, which is "solid throughout, but probably won't be remembered as clearly due to a lack of 'impact.'"
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May 24, 2023 08:11
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Ytlaya posted:Eh, that's kind of a matter of personal taste. I'd say that One Piece only avoided issues by choosing to spin its wheels indefinitely (and I've never found it particularly compelling, largely due to not really liking the core cast). Lack of impact. From the best selling manga per volume of all time, assuming the Devilman number is questioned. I'm going to have to ask for a definition here, because my knee-jerk response here is to wonder what "lack of impact" even means.
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May 24, 2023 10:46
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I'm going to guess things will be explained about Megumi and his sister since Sukuna is driving his body right now and presumably part of the goal is to fix that- but if there's no explanation for what the gently caress his sister's actual deal was I'm going to be baffled. I think it's gonna get explained though. For the same reason I think Gojo is gonna lose. Not just because I think he wants to save Megumi and that's a big disadvantage, but because Sukuna's reason to wanting his body/technique was something that an editor asked cut from an interview Gege did and we haven't heard that explanation yet in the manga. If Sukuna has big plans for Megumi's technique unless we're just completely subverting it that means we're gonna get an explanation or it or see Sukuna go for his big plan. Which means Gojo doesn't win this fight.
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May 24, 2023 12:00
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JJK is still one of the better manga in jump. The only ones better are Sakamoto, Spy x Family, and of course Chainsaw Man. Even if the culling game had been better I’m not sure that JJK’s placement would be any different because Sakamoto has been absolutely incredible, Spy x Family has been an all-time classic since issue one, and Chainsaw Man is one of the best comics ever made.
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May 24, 2023 12:02
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chiasaur11 posted:Lack of impact. From the best selling manga per volume of all time, assuming the Devilman number is questioned. I'm going to have to ask for a definition here, because my knee-jerk response here is to wonder what "lack of impact" even means. "lack of impact" means "I didn't grow up watching it in Toonami after school"
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May 24, 2023 12:34
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chiasaur11 posted:Lack of impact. From the best selling manga per volume of all time, assuming the Devilman number is questioned. I'm going to have to ask for a definition here, because my knee-jerk response here is to wonder what "lack of impact" even means. I'd assume they meant something like how FMA was a huge series in it's time but once the 2nd anime ended you don't really see people bringing it up and from what I've read it's not really reference in other works or by other mangaka.
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May 24, 2023 13:26
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Brought To You By posted:I'd assume they meant something like how FMA was a huge series in it's time but once the 2nd anime ended you don't really see people bringing it up and from what I've read it's not really reference in other works or by other mangaka. FMA gets referenced all the time. Like just off the top of my head Mashle had s super blunt joke/reference to it recently
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May 24, 2023 13:53
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ImpAtom posted:FMA gets referenced all the time. Like just off the top of my head Mashle had s super blunt joke/reference to it recently Mash is the last time in a long time I've seen a FMA reference. And it's not like I can quantify this perfectly since I'm not aware of the vast majority of manga released in japan but even with that one reference. It's not on the same level as Jojo's Bizarre Adventure where there's an entire meme about whether some things qualify as a "jojo reference" on top of the blatant ones.
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May 24, 2023 14:12
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PringleCreamEgg posted:JJK is still one of the better manga in jump. The only ones better are Sakamoto, Spy x Family, and of course Chainsaw Man. Even if the culling game had been better I’m not sure that JJK’s placement would be any different because Sakamoto has been absolutely incredible, Spy x Family has been an all-time classic since issue one, and Chainsaw Man is one of the best comics ever made. Dandadan is also better than JJK, but the exact number of ongoing series that are better than it doesn't really have much relevance to this conversation. JJK is a mess right now, which is a shame. Maybe the Culling Games will come across better in the anime, but even if it does, the consistent bad treatment of women is really blatant at this point and nothing short of a rewrite could resolve that.
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May 24, 2023 20:07
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Fabricated posted:I'm going to guess things will be explained about Megumi and his sister since Sukuna is driving his body right now and presumably part of the goal is to fix that- but if there's no explanation for what the gently caress his sister's actual deal was I'm going to be baffled. We know what his sister’s deal was, she was his nice step sister, who he thought was a great person, but she was suddenly cursed and fell into a coma. He originally thought she was awakened as a sorcerer, but discovered she was in fact an incarcerated Sorcerer who was tricking him, so his sister was basically dead. His possessed body and technique was then used to actually kill her body.
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May 24, 2023 21:23
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Also next chapter is early. https://tcbscans.com/chapters/7379/jujutsu-kaisen-chapter-224review?t=1684987200000
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May 24, 2023 23:38
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chiasaur11 posted:Lack of impact. From the best selling manga per volume of all time, assuming the Devilman number is questioned. I'm going to have to ask for a definition here, because my knee-jerk response here is to wonder what "lack of impact" even means. I think you're misunderstanding the point I'm making. I'm not making some statement about the quality of the manga itself (there are other shounen manga I like *way* more than Naruto, including JJK), and I'm not even talking about the manga specifically. Manga volume sales aren't relevant to what I'm saying, because the thing that matters most for what I'm talking about is the broader impact across all media (and primarily media aimed at children, who are mainly seeing it through the anime or WSJ, not manga volumes). Also - and arguably most importantly - it didn't last nearly as long. That has a huge impact, because it means far fewer kids growing up with it being "the big shounen with a ton of recognizable/marketable characters." Naruto is after my time (I don't think the anime started until I was in college) and I have zero emotional attachment to it (that'd be DBZ in my case). But it managed to be an extremely long-running media franchise largely due to having such a distinct setting with a large collection of easily recognizable character designs. That's not the same thing as being "a great shounen manga," but it's still something that is very difficult to pull off. I'm just pointing out how, in hindsight, it's very easy to see why Naruto managed to achieve what the vast majority of other shounen franchises couldn't (and why it even still lingers around with the Boruto series).
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May 25, 2023 01:11
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Brought To You By posted:I'd assume they meant something like how FMA was a huge series in it's time but once the 2nd anime ended you don't really see people bringing it up and from what I've read it's not really reference in other works or by other mangaka. That's funny because if you interact with Square-Enix properties or read Gangan manga they're pretty keen on referencing FMA. It's still fairly popular in cosplay as well. and both manga and anime get mentioned in top 10 lists a lot Demon Slayer has been huge in SEA and has dominated the con scene for years, too. maybe it didn't run as long as Naruto but honestly I prefer my Jump series shorter?
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May 25, 2023 01:24
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Of all the chapters not to have internal monologues about how their techniques work and how they're counteracting each other... Like I wonder if it's intentional, like "these two are so far above you I can't even describe how it's happening", but it's playing out like a DBZ punch-up. Wicked art, though.
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May 25, 2023 01:48
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MonsterEnvy posted:We know what his sister’s deal was, she was his nice step sister, who he thought was a great person, but she was suddenly cursed and fell into a coma. He originally thought she was awakened as a sorcerer, but discovered she was in fact an incarcerated Sorcerer who was tricking him, so his sister was basically dead. His possessed body and technique was then used to actually kill her body.
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May 25, 2023 02:48
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The only thing unexplained is Gojo's reaction to Sukuna intentionally dismantling the building behind him and deciding to stop using limitless for whatever reason when he went to punch him, but this isn't a giant mystery that Sukuna is trying to figure out how his technique works exactly, and Gojo doesn't want him to figure it out.
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May 25, 2023 03:05
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Fight rocks so far but immediately felt bad for the animators
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May 25, 2023 03:23
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this chapter was cool from a fight choreography and drawing angle but weird as a cliffhanger because it felt really light
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May 25, 2023 03:41
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Fabricated posted:Did they explain even a little bit about the curse or what it does or where it came from or why it happened It was Kenjaku. He marked her as a culling game player and fed her the cursed object made from Yorozu.
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May 25, 2023 04:56
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ChaseSP posted:The only thing unexplained is Gojo's reaction to Sukuna intentionally dismantling the building behind him and deciding to stop using limitless for whatever reason when he went to punch him, but this isn't a giant mystery that Sukuna is trying to figure out how his technique works exactly, and Gojo doesn't want him to figure it out. I think it was used to catch Gojo off guard, he turned to look at what was targeted because he expected that to be aimed at him.
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May 25, 2023 04:57
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Fabricated posted:Did they explain even a little bit about the curse or what it does or where it came from or why it happened Kenjaku did it. He told them what he did when he set up the culling game. He altered peoples brains with Idle transfiguration and activated people with reincarnated sorcery he had setup over the years.
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May 25, 2023 05:02
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MonsterEnvy posted:I think it was used to catch Gojo off guard, he turned to look at what was targeted because he expected that to be aimed at him. Oh without a doubt Sukuna aimed him to test Gojo and to try and catch him off guard to see if it'd bypass limitless prob or for something else.
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May 25, 2023 05:14
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Break next week after a full action chapter kinda sucks. I'm digging the full DBZ vibes from Sukuna and Gojo's clothes though, really sets the tone for the fight.
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May 25, 2023 05:27
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Gojo is actually just wearing the same stuff Toji did.
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May 25, 2023 05:30
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yeah he put on the sorcerer killing pants
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May 25, 2023 08:47
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Lots of buildings getting crushed in Jump this week.
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May 25, 2023 12:01
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MonsterEnvy posted:It was Kenjaku. He marked her as a culling game player and fed her the cursed object made from Yorozu.
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May 25, 2023 13:36
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to my understanding her initial curse was from being fed yorozu. idle transfiguration just allowed yorozu to incarnate
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May 25, 2023 14:54
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Yeah Kenjaku was marking people well in advance. He removed the seals on the Cursed objects when he started the Culling Game allowing t he objects to incarnate.
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May 25, 2023 15:18
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