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DACK FAYDEN posted:I never actually read it but The Book of Strange New Things is about the first priest sent to a planet where intelligent life was discovered and the instant the aliens lay eyes on him they go "hey, you're father greg or whatever, we've been waiting for you to tell us about Jesus and this book of strange new things!" completely unprompted. But I have no idea how it ends. The reason they like jesus is one of the stupidest plot twists and I hate it.
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May 24, 2023 02:20
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Jedit posted:Civilization was wholly inspired by the 1980 boardgame of the same name, though. Wow, I didn't realize they book came out before I was in elementary school. I never looked at the publication date and I never would have guessed.
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May 24, 2023 02:22
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RDM posted:The aliens already know about priests and the bible from the early human colonists and they specifically requested a priest or they'd stop trading with the humans. That's why generic megacorp recruited a priest for their weird colony. Do they not reproduce sexually, and thus somehow have learned to identify with the virgin birth?
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May 24, 2023 02:23
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Gaius Marius posted:Do they not reproduce sexually, and thus somehow have learned to identify with the virgin birth? They're so susceptible to injury and disease that they basically instantly die to minor ailments for humans and think humans being able to recover from them is proof of Christian miracles.
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May 24, 2023 02:28
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Gaius Marius posted:Do they not reproduce sexually, and thus somehow have learned to identify with the virgin birth?
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May 24, 2023 02:40
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This is nothing to do with The Sparrow, right?
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May 24, 2023 02:45
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Yea, when I read the twist I just could not fathom how they would even operate or grow as a society. Just... weird.
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May 24, 2023 02:46
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Makes fine sense to me.  I loved how the aliens named themselves Jesus Lover 1, Jesus Lover 2, etc. They were really committed!
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May 24, 2023 03:16
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Stuporstar posted:As for Stardust Thief, the problem is why is this prince so useless? They’re treating him like a pampered princess they have to preserve for an arranged marriage, and I see no signs of an intentional gender swap there. So why? Why is he no good at anything at the age of 22? It makes absolutely no sense. Royalty isn’t just an inherited position, it’s a vocation with duties, and they trusted him with none of them? He’s the most uninteresting love interest I’ve read in a while, and it’s kinda hard to give a crap about his character growth when he doesn’t have much character to begin with. This book reads 100% YA to me, because he’s not meant to be precocious superstar, the female protagonist is. All he has to do is be hansom and make moon eyes at her (and maybe frustrate her a bit by being incapable of tying his own sandals). So yeah, I’m afraid this is a DNF for me I read this in the voice of your av OP
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May 24, 2023 03:19
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Zore posted:They're so susceptible to injury and disease that they basically instantly die to minor ailments for humans and think humans being able to recover from them is proof of Christian miracles. now I don't regret not reading it and like I'm sure it's less bad in the actual book but that is one hell of a letdown
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May 24, 2023 03:23
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Bilirubin posted:I read this in the voice of your av OP lmao that’s amazing
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May 24, 2023 03:24
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DACK FAYDEN posted:oh my god is this real I thought it was good and landed well in the general arc and tone of the book. It’s not a crunchy biologically rigorous science fiction novel, it’s about a pretty dumb guy trying very hard to be a good person and hold on to his faith in the face of a difficult and confusing world.
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May 24, 2023 03:48
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DACK FAYDEN posted:oh my god is this real It isn't that they instantly die from minor ailments, its that they have no capacity for self-repair at all and (some) have latched onto Christ's resurrection and Christianity in general in the hope that their faith would allow them to recover from injury.
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May 24, 2023 07:20
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Stuporstar posted:As for Stardust Thief, the problem is why is this prince so useless? They’re treating him like a pampered princess they have to preserve for an arranged marriage, and I see no signs of an intentional gender swap there. So why? Why is he no good at anything at the age of 22? It makes absolutely no sense. Royalty isn’t just an inherited position, it’s a vocation with duties, and they trusted him with none of them? He’s the most uninteresting love interest I’ve read in a while, and it’s kinda hard to give a crap about his character growth when he doesn’t have much character to begin with. This book reads 100% YA to me, because he’s not meant to be precocious superstar, the female protagonist is. All he has to do is be hansom and make moon eyes at her (and maybe frustrate her a bit by being incapable of tying his own sandals). So yeah, I’m afraid this is a DNF for me I mean, I haven't read this book, but "the heir to the throne being a whiny loser who is bad at everything relating to ruling a country and shows no particular interest in trying to improve" is not exactly an unprecedented situation in historical monarchies, to the point where the fact that it can so often happen is generally pointed to as the single most obvious and serious flaw to hereditary monarchy as a system of government?
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May 24, 2023 07:38
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General Battuta posted:I thought it was good and landed well in the general arc and tone of the book. It’s not a crunchy biologically rigorous science fiction novel, it’s about a pretty dumb guy trying very hard to be a good person and hold on to his faith in the face of a difficult and confusing world. This is pretty much what I got from it too. It's not trying to be a hard sci-fi space colony novel, it's about one average guy trying to manage the spiritual growth of his alien parish and his unexpected love of the new world he's in, against the spiritual crushing of his wife who is struggling back home on earth. The spoiler above read, to me, as an explanation of why the aliens fell for Jesus so hard, rather than as a major revelation that the whole ending pivots around. Arguably there isn't much of an ending at all.
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May 24, 2023 08:29
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Groke posted:There's also one of his non-M books (was it Complicity? It's been ages) where the main character spends some time playing/thinking about a (fictional) computer game called Despot (IIRC), which sounded an awful lot like a not-Civ with more focus on the inner workings of society. It's absolutely Complicity, about a third of the book is the main character playing video games instead of doing anything else, like advancing the "plot". Oh, and Traveller computer sizes are completely and comprehensively misunderstood. Traveller ship design is based on volume. The computer sizes work out to the space needed for a workstation with a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and chair. My hot take on Traveller: the only thing that went through Vilani space faster than Terran cuisine, was Terran software.
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May 24, 2023 09:00
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mllaneza posted:It's absolutely Complicity, about a third of the book is the main character playing video games instead of doing anything else, like advancing the "plot". Yeah, I think we can conclude with some certainty that Banks was familiar with the "one more turn" syndrome.
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May 24, 2023 09:03
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Groke posted:Speaking of books that dated themselves horribly: Another by Norman Spinrad. Russian Spring. Cold War keeps going, the USSR successfully reforms their economy, generally gets their poo poo together, and is basically leading over the USA which on the other hand is stagnating into Christian fascism and loving up all its international diplomacy... Sorry, I thought you said it had dated itself?
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May 24, 2023 09:12
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Jedit posted:Sorry, I thought you said it had dated itself? It was ahead of schedule. Also he had Russia getting better than the US instead of actually getting worse faster.
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May 24, 2023 09:20
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I've been wanting to delve into the Dune universe but I'm unsure of where to start. It would make sense to just follow the wikipedia order and start with Dune (1965). However a friend of mine recommended me to start with the prehistory to the Dune books, but I can't figure out exactly where that starts and ends. Any recommendation? Mikojan fucked around with this message at 09:57 on May 24, 2023 |
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May 24, 2023 09:49
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Mikojan posted:However a friend of mine recommended me to start with the prehistory to the Dune books, but I can't figure out exactly where that starts and ends. Apparently the general consensus is to start with Dune, then read its sequels until you stop enjoying them at which point you quit because it won't get better. The prequels are universally dogshit.
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May 24, 2023 09:51
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Mikojan posted:I've been wanted to delve into the Dune universe but I'm unsure of where to start. Just read Dune.
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May 24, 2023 09:54
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anilEhilated posted:DON'T THIS. Publication order until you hit wherever the uh, Frank, come on point is for you. My personal criterion for good Dune books is Bruce Pennington covers, because I include the Lampoon's pisstake Doon and the glorious proto-fanfic of the Dune Encyclopaedia in the good stuff, but the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson prequels are indeed utter poo poo.
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May 24, 2023 10:08
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Good! I'll start with Dune and see how far I get. I have a high pain threshold having read almost all WH30k heresy novels
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May 24, 2023 10:11
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"Arrakis teaches the attitude of the knife - chopping off what's incomplete and saying: 'Now, it's complete because it's ended here." By which I mean Dune is finished when you decide"yeah that's enough"
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May 24, 2023 10:17
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Mikojan posted:I've been wanting to delve into the Dune universe but I'm unsure of where to start. Your friend has very bad opinions. If they suggest anything else, I'd give it a strong think. Read Frank(!) Herbert's books in publication order. If you like the first one, keep going. The ones after the fourth one, God-Emperor of Dune, aren't really worth reading. Definitely do not read the stuff Frank's son wrote with Kevin Anderson after his death.
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May 24, 2023 10:32
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Mikojan posted:I've been wanting to delve into the Dune universe but I'm unsure of where to start. As everyone else has mentioned, read in published order, including prequels (though those are a SIGNIFICANT drop in quality from the Frank Herbert books), but even then every single book is worse than the book before it, so when you reach a point where a book is only just OK, stop, you've gotten a full story. The Dune books are actually pretty good about every book being a decent stopping point.
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May 24, 2023 10:34
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I'm currently going through Dune via library audiobooks. I just finished Heretics of Dune a couple weeks ago and my main feeling was a mix of "wow, that sure was a book" and "the ones by his son are supposed to be worse?!"
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May 24, 2023 10:58
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There's only one more actual original Frank Herbert book after Heretics, which is Chapterhouse. I personally think the best endpoint of the story is after God-Emperor.
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May 24, 2023 13:04
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habeasdorkus posted:I personally think the best endpoint of the story is after God-Emperor.  God-Emperor I think could even be argued as being better than Children but the quality drop between that and Heretics is massive.e: Unrelated, but I'd like thank whoever recommended The Hollow in this thread, I enjoyed it a lot and it definitely scratches the Between Two Fires itch. I'm looking at the Vorrh books now - anyone read those? anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 14:14 on May 24, 2023 |
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May 24, 2023 14:03
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Mikojan posted:Good! I'll start with Dune and see how far I get. I have a high pain threshold having read almost all WH30k heresy novels You'll probably make it through the main series and half of the Dune prequel books then. The Brian Herbert / Kevin J Anderson Dune books are bad compared to the Frank Herbert Dune novels, and bad compared to a lot of fiction, but they're probably at about the quality level of overproduced licensed stuff. I'd probably rather re-read a Brian Herbert Dune novel than some of the awful Star Wars EU stuff I read in the late '90s, for example.
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May 24, 2023 14:29
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Ahh, the crystal star.
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May 24, 2023 14:32
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Chapterhouse is better written than any of the Dune EU books but it's no less stupid or crazy. I think, I only ever read like one and a half dune EU books before I was like nope that'll do. I do have a soft spot for crazy though so try Frank Herbert's Pandora Sequence.
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May 24, 2023 14:55
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I usually stop around God-Emperor. I've read uh.. way too far before and everyone is correct, every single book is slightly (or significantly) worse than the last. I have no idea how Kevin J. Anderson is a working author. edit: I tried to read Saga of the Seven Suns, and it was perhaps some of the worst fiction I've ever read in my life.
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May 24, 2023 15:25
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You're gonna want to start chronologically with The Butlerian Jihad by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson. Make sure you get the whole story 
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May 24, 2023 17:00
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I feel like the "stop when you stop enjoying it" rule of thumb for Dune is generally good but I do also think the natural stopping points are after Messiah and God-Emperor. Messiah is sort of less its own book and more the actual resolution/consequences of a bunch of events set up in Dune, so it feels a bit like Dune is incomplete without Messiah once you've read them both. If it's your first time you could certainly stop after Dune though, the book does end pretty definitively. Similarly I feel like Children of Dune sets up a lot of things that get paid off or resolved in God-Emperor, though maybe less directly than Messiah does for the first book.
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May 24, 2023 17:39
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zoux posted:You're gonna want to start chronologically with The Butlerian Jihad by Brian Herbert and Kevin J Anderson. Make sure you get the whole story this is violence
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May 24, 2023 17:39
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The bad guys are cymeks.
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May 24, 2023 17:43
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anilEhilated posted:
Also seconding reading Doon if you can get your hands on a copy. Some of the references may be a bit dated but they nail Herbert's prose perfectly, and by perfectly I mean exaggerate to extreme comedic effect, making it truer than the actual.
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May 24, 2023 17:47
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Mikojan posted:Good! I'll start with Dune and see how far I get. I have a high pain threshold having read almost all WH30k heresy novels I have read the entirety of the horus heresy and probably 85% of published 40k books so I feel your pain, but even I had to stop after getting a little ways into the dune sequels if that tells you anything.
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