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NikkolasKing posted:There's this weird new phenomenon among this group called the Manosphere or Red Pill where these guys are now "converting' to Islam because they think it's a more "traditional" way to hate women. Online weirdos just give all religions a bad name.
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May 21, 2023 09:11
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Liquid Communism posted:I'll be blunt, there's no paradox if one simply accepts that a lot of Christians historically have been hypocrites regarding the difference between what they preach and what they practice. That doesn't mean there isn't good to be found, or that the teachings are wrong, just that people and organizations are flawed and prone to do terrible things for power. The worst excesses of the Church's support for imperialism (or outright corruption and sale of religious apointments and indulgences back home) are matters of historical record. I don't think it's even that. The people doing the horrific crimes probably believed whole heartedly in the faith that they preached and believed, they just knew that this was what was expected of them. The problem isn't hypocrisy per say, but the belief that you can do this because you understand things better.
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May 21, 2023 09:21
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I enjoyed Quakers today. Turnout was a bit small. I finally read some of the panels on the walls, George Fox came up where I live and spoke at the Market Cross. A filled an entire page with notes during silent prayer. Also I had a long heart to heart talk with an older woman where I bsically poured my heart out. She said I was a wise young man. I even told her about having panic attacks and coming to this thread and being told to repeat the Bene Gesserit mantra against fear! Once again, thanks guys for suggesting that. I shouldn't forget that you guys helped me out when I needed it. I feel like I got a lot out of this meeting. 
Prurient Squid fucked around with this message at 14:09 on May 21, 2023 |
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May 21, 2023 14:02
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George Fox is an interesting character but it's hard to say much of what is known about him is accurate. One Quaker history scholar flat out said the man was a liar. I think the main charge I heard against him was that in the earlier days he was perhaps not the sober, upright religious type of chap history portrays him as and was maybe radical in a less acceptable way than not giving people hat honor.
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May 22, 2023 01:45
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Josef bugman posted:I don't think it's even that. The people doing the horrific crimes probably believed whole heartedly in the faith that they preached and believed, they just knew that this was what was expected of them. The problem isn't hypocrisy per say, but the belief that you can do this because you understand things better. Nah, I'm not really willing to give them the pass that they didn't know that genocide, or sexual abuse, or hauling a dead Pope's corpse up to put on trial before throwing it in a river were wrong. They knew and did it anyway because they were sure no one could make them experience temporal consequences for their actions.
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May 22, 2023 06:10
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Liquid Communism posted:Nah, I'm not really willing to give them the pass that they didn't know that genocide, or sexual abuse, or hauling a dead Pope's corpse up to put on trial before throwing it in a river were wrong. They knew and did it anyway because they were sure no one could make them experience temporal consequences for their actions. wait whats wrong with the last one
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May 22, 2023 06:44
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Earwicker posted:wait whats wrong with the last one It is such a comedy that I can't fully explain it in detail from memory, but having re-read my notes it was the result of Pope Formosus crowning a Frank the Holy Roman Emperor; both that Frankish king and Formosus died three years later. Then Boniface VI became Pope, for all of two weeks before he too kicked the bucket, and Stephen VI ascended to the Papacy, invited the prior Emperor's wife and son into Rome, and crowned him instead. He then had Formosus dug up, propped up in court, tried, convicted, buried in a pauper's grave for a couple months, and then deciding that wasn't enough had his corpse exhumed again, stripped, and thrown into the Tiber. Stephen VI was, a few months after said cadaver synod, deposed by a public uprising for being batshit crazy and strangled to death in prison. He was followed by Pope Romanus, who was Pope from August to November before being deposed as well and confined in a monastery. Pope Theodore II followed, who managed to beat out Boniface by six days, dying after twenty days as Pope. Just a pure farce of Italian politics of the day, which were the politics of the Church for centuries.
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May 22, 2023 07:04
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Josef bugman posted:And If we are saying "gently caress All Gurus" then I would like to start with the ones that say "gently caress all Gurus".
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May 22, 2023 07:18
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Liquid Communism posted:It is such a comedy that I can't fully explain it in detail from memory, but having re-read my notes it was the result of Pope Formosus crowning a Frank the Holy Roman Emperor; both that Frankish king and Formosus died three years later. Then Boniface VI became Pope, for all of two weeks before he too kicked the bucket, and Stephen VI ascended to the Papacy, invited the prior Emperor's wife and son into Rome, and crowned him instead. He then had Formosus dug up, propped up in court, tried, convicted, buried in a pauper's grave for a couple months, and then deciding that wasn't enough had his corpse exhumed again, stripped, and thrown into the Tiber. They cut off all his fingers during the second exhumation as well. Crazy poo poo! Prurient Squid posted:Also I had a long heart to heart talk with an older woman where I bsically poured my heart out. She said I was a wise young man. So glad you went with practicing the litany against fear! It has more or less saved the life of several (staunchly atheist) people I know.
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May 22, 2023 07:31
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Liquid Communism posted:Nah, I'm not really willing to give them the pass that they didn't know that genocide, or sexual abuse, or hauling a dead Pope's corpse up to put on trial before throwing it in a river were wrong. They knew and did it anyway because they were sure no one could make them experience temporal consequences for their actions. Oh it's not a pass, just saying that in my opinion, it's very easy to commit terrible crimes whilst still believing one is doing the right thing and that it's not hypocritical to do so.
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May 22, 2023 08:06
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Liquid Communism posted:It is such a comedy that I can't fully explain it in detail from memory, but having re-read my notes it was the result of Pope Formosus crowning a Frank the Holy Roman Emperor; both that Frankish king and Formosus died three years later. Then Boniface VI became Pope, for all of two weeks before he too kicked the bucket, and Stephen VI ascended to the Papacy, invited the prior Emperor's wife and son into Rome, and crowned him instead. He then had Formosus dug up, propped up in court, tried, convicted, buried in a pauper's grave for a couple months, and then deciding that wasn't enough had his corpse exhumed again, stripped, and thrown into the Tiber. You're also forgetting the funniest part, which is that it was claimed the corpse washed up on the shore and began performing miracles. In other words, the corpse won the corpse synod in the end.
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May 22, 2023 14:40
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Night10194 posted:You're also forgetting the funniest part, which is that it was claimed the corpse washed up on the shore and began performing miracles.
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May 22, 2023 14:53
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My copy of Final Fantasy and Philosophy arrived. The holy spirit made me buy it.
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May 23, 2023 09:28
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so im watchin some bbc thing about the history of christianity (as such) and for real did luther and zwingli split over a fuckin sausage? please confirm this in the affirmative, i need this
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May 24, 2023 02:15
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“The Affair of the Sausages” https://divinity.uchicago.edu/sightings/articles/affair-sausages-and-religious-freedom
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May 24, 2023 02:27
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from everything i know about zwingli, thisquote:Word of their transgression quickly got out, and the people who partook of the sausages were jailed for breaking canon law. Swiss reformer Huldrych Zwingli, who was present but did not inhale, quickly took to the pulpit to defend them. Historians think Zwingli helped stage the Wurstessen, planning the event alongside Froschauer with the intention of challenging the legal obligation to fast during Lent. is 100% plausible
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May 24, 2023 02:54
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Off topic for a moment. I've been watching Supergreatfriend's Let's Play of Disco Elysium. I just realised that two things that I have a sensitivity to that annoy me are passive aggressive sarcasm and communist kitsch. The game abounds in both.
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May 25, 2023 12:48
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https://twitter.com/UnseenOps/status/1661499544297717762
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May 25, 2023 14:28
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these own i got my mind blown open the other day when i learned that the orthodox churches got around their interpretation of ''graven images'' by doing 2d representations of christ et al i was like ''hell yeah that owns''
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May 25, 2023 21:52
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sinnesloeschen posted:these own 1) The Old Testament has several examples of images endorsed by God--the serpent on the tabernacle, the cherubim on the Ark of the Covenant, etc. So "graven images" must not apply to all images. 2) Icons are an affirmation of the Incarnation--God took on a material body and showed his face to the world, so the world can, in return, depict his face with physical materials (this is why there's generally a distaste for depicting God the Father in icons--because the Father remains invisible). 3) The distinction between latreia (worship, which is due only to God) and proskynesis (veneration). 4) The veneration goes to the prototype--the person being depicted--and not the materials themselves, which would itself be idolatrous. There isn't really any rule against statues in Orthodoxy, they're just not very popular.
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May 26, 2023 00:35
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I've been doing journaling today and I remembered that I used to BE the Communist Cringe guy. That might be why I find it triggering. I went through a phase where my hyperfocus was memorising Russian army songs and learning Russian. I can remember watching the Big Childrens Choir videos on YouTube.
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May 26, 2023 11:31
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I've gotten interested in self-compassion. I think I'll share this link with the thread. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lK2aHpcVFMo e: I'm not surprised at Britain coming last in self compassion. Prurient Squid fucked around with this message at 11:15 on May 27, 2023 |
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May 27, 2023 11:07
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What, Misery Island? Now exporting worldwide!
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May 27, 2023 16:30
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Bilirubin posted:What, Misery Island? Now exporting worldwide! Whats the old line "The Sun never sets on the British Empire because God does not trust the British in the dark"? Self loathing or contempt for the self is a tricky thing to deal with. When it is required as part of a move towards forgiveness and the neccesity of, if not punishment, then atonement, is very important to examine.
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May 27, 2023 18:19
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Josef bugman posted:Whats the old line "The Sun never sets on the British Empire because God does not trust the British in the dark"? In my opinion it has very little value outside of the specific goad to action, but that is, as they say, just my opinion, man.
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May 27, 2023 21:56
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Nessus posted:I would say a better question is: When is it good to stop with the self-loathing? It depends on the person. Sometimes guilt should be something you have forever.
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May 27, 2023 22:39
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Nessus posted:I would say a better question is: When is it good to stop with the self-loathing? Immediatly, self loathing is worthless. You hosed up? You feel bad? Stop throwing a pity party and make restitution the ways you can. Wallowing, is a way to avoid responsibility. Nessus posted:Did you mean credible with this BTW Yeah Prurient Squid posted:Off topic for a moment. I've been watching Supergreatfriend's Let's Play of Disco Elysium. Its writing always thinks it's more edgy, biting, and clever than it actually is. It feels absurdly "always online", and its reticence to be sincere rather than cloaked in double entendre, cynicism, and "jokes"( a term I use because the game is very, very not funny) cripples its ability to promulgate its message. It's not great because there is some good stuff in there, but ultimately the game itself is rather juvenile. If you want something that is both Labor positive while also being goofy fun, and positive in its portrayal of the "outsider" groups, I'd recommend Pynchon's Against The Day. Bonus soda, its prose isn't offensive to my discerning eyes. It in fact is quite beautiful in parts, although never as much as such authors as Nabokov who intentionally pairs his beauty with the darkest disgust. It also never engages in any real passive aggresvity, it operates on two real levels, and by that I mean three. The sincere to the point of implied irony by our diseased minds, a fact the novel comments on, and the sincere as in sinning in sears, "actuality" captured in the un-actual, the psuedorealisim that our people have begun to expect, and of course the implied non sincerity that we project on to the novel, the finale should break you of this just as well as Infinite Jest does. based Nessus posted:I was wondering when they'd get to this phase Evola>Guenon pipeline working the "alt" right Gaius Marius fucked around with this message at 06:03 on May 28, 2023 |
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May 28, 2023 05:59
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yeah Against the Day is great, definitely my favorite Pynchon novel
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May 28, 2023 06:26
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Gaius Marius posted:Its writing always thinks it's more edgy, biting, and clever than it actually is. It feels absurdly "always online", and its reticence to be sincere rather than cloaked in double entendre, cynicism, and "jokes"( a term I use because the game is very, very not funny) cripples its ability to promulgate its message. It's not great because there is some good stuff in there, but ultimately the game itself is rather juvenile. If you want something that is both Labor positive while also being goofy fun, and positive in its portrayal of the "outsider" groups, I'd recommend Pynchon's Against The Day. Bonus soda, its prose isn't offensive to my discerning eyes. It in fact is quite beautiful in parts, although never as much as such authors as Nabokov who intentionally pairs his beauty with the darkest disgust. Okay, I'm going to have to disagree with you on this particular idea about Disco Elysium, for several reasons. I don't believe that the game is being insincere. It's being Sincere in both it's cynicism of the world and it is also very in the little moments that help to make the world more beautiful despite all the problems that plague it. The game is also frequently very funny, it's fine to say that you don't find it humourous, or that you find certain things unappealing, but I don't think something that makes people laugh this much is able to just be called "unfunny". Also to call something "juvenile" is slightly odd. Why do you think it's Juvenile and what do you consider to be "adult" as a type of media? Is the Self-Loathing that the generals feel in "The Act of Killing" not deserved or necessary. Is that not some how a better thing for them to feel than joy at having organised mass murder?
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May 28, 2023 08:27
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Whilst watching Disco Elysium I did think that it's politics is closer to internet politics than real world labour politics. I say this as someone who's been overexposed to both. I did think it was funny, I laughed hysterically. I love every time Evrart is in the scene. There's something very illogical about the whole set up. We keep being told that "Communism failed" and that people are jaded and cynical and yet the workers are implied to be on the verge of seizing the means of production... which means that Communism is about to win? But I haven't finished it and I'm taking a break from it to be honest. The world building is kind of tedius.
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May 28, 2023 08:42
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In Disco Elysium's setting, Communism is simultaneously a dream, a political theory, a failed regime, a successful program brought down by evil manifest, an idea which is the solitary source of hope for humanity, an idea which is a laughable scourge on humanity, and the producer of an unsafe nuclear reactor. This is, of course, nothing like real life; in real life, Communism is also something which large numbers of people believe actively controls, or is on the verge of controlling, the world (or at least major nation-states). I enjoyed Disco Elysium very much although it was more for the depth of the character studies and the use of the form to deliver the literary message than the references to internet-poisoned political discourse.
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May 28, 2023 08:49
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Prurient Squid posted:There's something very illogical about the whole set up. We keep being told that "Communism failed" and that people are jaded and cynical and yet the workers are implied to be on the verge of seizing the means of production... which means that Communism is about to win? But I haven't finished it and I'm taking a break from it to be honest. The world building is kind of tedius. I mean, not really? Is Communism about to win whenever a strike breaks out? Also Communism, and indeed all leftism really, is about failure. It is about helping those who have failed and trying again and again to do something that is thought to be impossible. I'm going to disagree with you about the world building, TBH it fits together remarkably well but it's never really laid out in full. It's fun and cool to see TBH and approaching it from the point of view of a amnesiac is the best way to start it.
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May 28, 2023 08:51
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I quite enjoyed Quakers today. Also, all that Stoic, Memento Mori stuff goes down really well at a Quaker meeting. Also apparently the best place to drop dead is an airport because you have all your documentation on you. Also I just found out there's a mailing list and I'm not on it. Also while I was in town I got peppermint tea for my mam. Now I'm going to email the clerk so I can get on the mailing list.
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May 28, 2023 13:23
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Glad to see GM got laughed out of the Disco Elysium thread for his terrible takes so he moved to the religion thread (???) Anyway Disco Elysium is a fantastic game
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May 28, 2023 15:15
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Worth noting that the ZA/UM Collective began as an Estonian movement against the art establishment, and in its dying phase suddenly wrote a very good video game. As Estonians, I don't think their opinions on Communism come from the Internet.
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May 28, 2023 18:27
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Killingyouguy! posted:Glad to see GM got laughed out of the Disco Elysium thread for his terrible takes so he moved to the religion thread (???) that guy has been posting about religion in here for quite a while, it's a hell of a lot of set up if it was all just to find a place to post the controversial opinion of disliking disco elysium personally i tried the game and couldn't get into it. not even because of the writing or politics but because i just don't like games where all you do is go around and talk to people. i liked the main music loop that plays when you walk around the city though, i still get it stuck in my head all the time even though i barely played the game
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May 28, 2023 19:19
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Prurient Squid posted:We keep being told that "Communism failed" and that people are jaded and cynical and yet the workers are implied to be on the verge of seizing the means of production... which means that Communism is about to win? Wait till the end, and how high did they put shivers on the LP playthrough? If they didn’t complete the Adonic music quest in the church or the cryptid quest watch a different LP. The end is pretty hard on internet communism.
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May 28, 2023 20:11
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Nessus posted:In Disco Elysium's setting, Communism is simultaneously a dream, a political theory, a failed regime, a successful program brought down by evil manifest, an idea which is the solitary source of hope for humanity, an idea which is a laughable scourge on humanity, and the producer of an unsafe nuclear reactor. The context is very different if one has spent time in the Baltic states or coastal Poland and the first part is much closer to reality with that in mind.
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May 28, 2023 20:17
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I have to take off now but even something like the Dolores Dei stave church … one almost has to have been in Estonia in the summer to understand what’s going on with that, and Sunday Friend, and moralism in general in the game. Ill post about it later today when I’m not out.
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May 28, 2023 20:19
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Worth noting that the ZA/UM Collective began as an Estonian movement against the art establishment, and in its dying phase suddenly wrote a very good video game. As Estonians, I don't think their opinions on Communism come from the Internet. I have no opinion on DE but the discussion in the thread reminds me of all the arguments I heard growing up about "can a urinal be art?" Guess that kinda thing happened everywhere.
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May 29, 2023 01:20
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