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Bye bye, Cyclops Stu : https://apnews.com/article/stewart-..._source=Twitter
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May 25, 2023 18:31
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Xiahou Dun posted:Bye bye, Cyclops Stu : On the one hand 18 years feels kinda small for Seditious Conspiracy but on the other hand that's only 2 less than the maximum possible sentence, so at least the book was thrown at him even if it was a small book.
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May 25, 2023 18:43
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Trump workers moved Mar-a-Lago boxes a day before Justice Dept. came for documentsquote:Two of Donald Trump’s employees moved boxes of papers the day before FBI agents and a prosecutor visited the former president’s Florida home to retrieve classified documents in response to a subpoena — timing that investigators have come to view as suspicious and an indication of possible obstruction, according to people familiar with the matter.
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May 25, 2023 19:30
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Main Paineframe posted:The issue is that the chuds knew there were rational actors pulling the strings and keeping them restrained, and they loving hated it. They've spent the last couple of decades slowly loosening the leash and worming their way out of the rational actors' control, helped by the foolishness of ambitious politicians who thought they could rise to power faster if they pretended to side with the chuds. In the end, the rational actors fanned the flames of the chuds' anger so much that they lost control, and now the chuds are running the show and eagerly purging anyone who doesn't fall in line with them. Plenty of well-funded GOP moderates have found themselves being successfully primaried. Yeah, the second paragraph reads pretty true right now, what with the richest man in the world revealing that despite not being a syphilitic swiss cheese brained reality show host in his upper 70s, he might in fact be the dumbest motherfucker alive, or at least the world's most perfect example of Dunning-Kruger. Completely drinking up the conservative flavor-aid since his ex-wife left him for being a piece of poo poo and ended up with a trans woman, and all his kids rightfully hate him for the tremendous piece of poo poo he is. And if you think this guy is incompetent, I have bad news about many of the politicians making up our governing bodies. I really hope this isn't the time, but this feels like something that is absolutely going to happen sooner than later unless this debt ceiling bullshit can get solved permanently.
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May 25, 2023 20:24
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Main Paineframe posted:The issue is that the chuds knew there were rational actors pulling the strings and keeping them restrained, and they loving hated it. They've spent the last couple of decades slowly loosening the leash and worming their way out of the rational actors' control, helped by the foolishness of ambitious politicians who thought they could rise to power faster if they pretended to side with the chuds. In the end, the rational actors fanned the flames of the chuds' anger so much that they lost control, and now the chuds are running the show and eagerly purging anyone who doesn't fall in line with them. Plenty of well-funded GOP moderates have found themselves being successfully primaried. Yeah, this. Thinking the string pullers will do literally anything that increases their net worth is just a different perspective on rational actor theory and is bullshit for the same reasons. Also people actually in office like having a wealthy retirement strategy and some are looking for a couple terms followed by a consulting cashout, but lots of them are in office and not the private sector because they want power and attention more than they want money. For them, campaign donations are great because they help you win elections even if you're corrupt enough to figure out how much you can pocket without hurting your chances. At the end of the day, what keeps the power and attention rolling is the votes, and the politically engaged right believes in voting for the reddest candidate in every primary and every general no matter who it is. It might be the only principle they have.
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May 25, 2023 20:56
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But the thing is that Republicans aren't gunning for racist, transphobic, or really any MAGA-centric issues. Their list of demands are things like work requirements, rescinding Covid funds, easier fossil fuel permits, cuts to climate legislation, capping debt spending.... in other words almost entirely a bunch of boring economic policies. It's entirely self-defeating to blow up the economy for these things. These aren't policies that either the base or string-pullers care enough about to justify self-destruction over. There is no megadonor out there that gives enough of a poo poo about capping debt spending or getting covid money back to crater the economy over it. The only reason the GOP is doing this is that they think Biden will fold and they can get a win out of it and make him look bad.
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May 25, 2023 22:29
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Deteriorata posted:Trump workers moved Mar-a-Lago boxes a day before Justice Dept. came for documents quote:Trump and his aides also allegedly carried out a “dress rehearsal” for moving sensitive papers even before his office received the May 2022 subpoena Ok this one is a smoking gun, right? It proves he knows this poo poo wasn't declassified material, or why would they care about 'sensitivity'. If this is what they're releasing to the public I can't wait to see what's up the prosecutors' sleeves.
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May 25, 2023 23:04
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If Donnie is indicted for the classified documents would he be released pending the trial just as he was in the NY case? Or is he likely to be in custody while that plays out?
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May 25, 2023 23:34
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Zotix posted:If Donnie is indicted for the classified documents would he be released pending the trial just as he was in the NY case? Or is he likely to be in custody while that plays out? i mean normally a motherfucker would have been apprehended real loving quick over this, and it wouldn't have been much of a question of the ethics of stringing out the process of determining if bail will be offered while they gently caress around a cell for a while, so i will assume he will NOT be in custody for any reason
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May 25, 2023 23:40
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Nephthys posted:But the thing is that Republicans aren't gunning for racist, transphobic, or really any MAGA-centric issues. Their list of demands are things like work requirements, rescinding Covid funds, easier fossil fuel permits, cuts to climate legislation, capping debt spending.... in other words almost entirely a bunch of boring economic policies. It's entirely self-defeating to blow up the economy for these things. These aren't policies that either the base or string-pullers care enough about to justify self-destruction over. OK this might be a little conspiratorial. However I think that if you take a minute to think about this makes sense. The Fash don't give a flying gently caress about the economy, law and order, culture war etc. What they care about is power, power to enforce their "morality" on everyone. What kind of conditions lead to authoritarian regimes? Chaos is the answer. That's why they flood the streets with guns, it's why they always push the dumbest ideas. More guns means more crime. Particularly violent crime. It also provides the excuse to militarize the police. I was born in 1970. Which means that I lived through the shift from the relative sanity of the 80s and 90s regarding guns. Before they went all in on the answer to any gun related problem is more guns. But I also remember the debate over arming cops more heavily. The reasoning was that with drug dealers getting submachine guns like Uzis and MAC10s that the 5-6 shot revolvers that the police were issued were not up to the task of facing off with criminals armed with military grade weapons. Flooding the streets with firearms, particularly assault rifles gives cops another excuse to militarize even more, with the prevalence of people who they interact with increases the risk of the job (at least the perceived risk) reinforcing their readiness and willingness to escalate situations rather than de-escalate. Plus with all of the fascist rhetoric stirring up stochastic terrorism just adds more fuel to all of the above. The financial fuckery the Fash get up is also a huge part of creating feelings of vulnerability, fear and insecurity that tends to make people more receptive to authoritarianism just to make things tolerable. Crushing the global economy isn't going to change the lifestyles of the billionaire's behind these fascist movements in fact such circumstances are almost always beneficial to those who have capital. Basically the Fash have every reason to want a default as the resulting chaos plays into their hands. These assholes don't care about how many people are harmed. These are the people who are pretty much responsible for climate change. They don't give a gently caress how many people die to maintain their iron grip on power. It will also make it harder to support Ukraine as everyone will become much more miserly with their resources than they are now which will help Putin and other authoritarians. And there is a really good chance if that happens that Xi tells Putin hold my beer and invades Taiwan and then we're well on our way to WW3 the prevention of which was entire point of the post WW2 order. These are extremely dangerous times and I'm not sure people truly grasp just how dangerous.
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May 25, 2023 23:40
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Skex posted:OK this might be a little conspiratorial. However I think that if you take a minute to think about this makes sense. I think you are right in some aspects of this but you're coming at this from the wrong angle. 99% of politicians do not have a morality at all. Their morals are what their donors tell them they are. You're right that all they care about is maintaining their own prestige and power but to maintain their power they need money from donors to fund their campaigns, line their own pockets and set themselves up for a consulting position when they step away from politics. The reason why they loosen gun laws and arm the police isn't that they're fascists, it's because some of the main donors to Republicans have been and still are the NRA, police unions and gun manufacturers. For example, Kevin McCarthy isn't an authoritarian, he's a self-centered weasel who just wants to be Speaker so he can have more influence on implementing policies and therefore get more money from donations. One of his biggest donors is Enterprise Products Partners L.P. which is a natural gas and crude oil pipeline company. One of the demands he's making is to loosen fossil fuel permits. You can see the connection. There is no conspiracy. Bribery is legal in America. All of this is happening right out in the open but nobody talks about it because everyone is in on it.
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May 26, 2023 01:06
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Edit: sorry, wrong thread
gregday fucked around with this message at 01:24 on May 26, 2023 |
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May 26, 2023 01:21
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This is the trump legal troubles thread.
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May 26, 2023 01:23
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Nephthys posted:I think you are right in some aspects of this but you're coming at this from the wrong angle. 99% of politicians do not have a morality at all. Their morals are what their donors tell them they are. You're right that all they care about is maintaining their own prestige and power but to maintain their power they need money from donors to fund their campaigns, line their own pockets and set themselves up for a consulting position when they step away from politics. The reason why they loosen gun laws and arm the police isn't that they're fascists, it's because some of the main donors to Republicans have been and still are the NRA, police unions and gun manufacturers. Yeah you don’t really need a conspiracy because that would be just giving agentivity to the ecosystem created by our legal system. Not excusing the people who exploit the system, but the root problem is we allow our government to be run by competing corporate catspaws. We desperately need to hold another Constitutional Convention, but I don’t know that there’s a way to even begin to change to become the kind of country that could do that.
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May 26, 2023 01:58
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Nephthys posted:I think you are right in some aspects of this but you're coming at this from the wrong angle. 99% of politicians do not have a morality at all. Their morals are what their donors tell them they are. You're right that all they care about is maintaining their own prestige and power but to maintain their power they need money from donors to fund their campaigns, line their own pockets and set themselves up for a consulting position when they step away from politics. The reason why they loosen gun laws and arm the police isn't that they're fascists, it's because some of the main donors to Republicans have been and still are the NRA, police unions and gun manufacturers. This argument is extremely common and extremely backwards. As a donor, you pick politicians who are inclined to back you and who are good at reaching voters that will reward them for (or despite) backing you. And then you ask favors, again of people who were already inclined to agree with you but also remember how you helped them out. That's not to say it's legitimate, it's still pretty open bribery sometimes, but the agency and policy goals of people other than donors are a lot more of a factor than you're letting on. If it worked the way you described, it would be a legit strategy to break a senate deadlock by crowdfunding to flip a Republican senator.
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May 26, 2023 02:10
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Main Paineframe posted:The issue is that the chuds knew there were rational actors pulling the strings and keeping them restrained, and they loving hated it. They've spent the last couple of decades slowly loosening the leash and worming their way out of the rational actors' control, helped by the foolishness of ambitious politicians who thought they could rise to power faster if they pretended to side with the chuds. In the end, the rational actors fanned the flames of the chuds' anger so much that they lost control, and now the chuds are running the show and eagerly purging anyone who doesn't fall in line with them. Plenty of well-funded GOP moderates have found themselves being successfully primaried. This is pretty spot on. I'm not sure how many "rational actors" are really left looking at a political party that wants Donald Trump again by more than 2 to 1 margine. I think 3/4 of the party still believes the 2020 election was stolen. Any rational, moderate voices are primaried out with the quickness. Frankenstein monster, etc, etc. These people are insane.
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May 26, 2023 02:10
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Nephthys posted:The only reason the GOP is doing this is that they think Biden will fold and they can get a win out of it and make him look bad. It’s going to suck but I hope Biden doesn’t blink. Let’s get this over with. IMO there is a pretty good argument that the debt ceiling is unconstitutional without even getting to the 14th amendment. The constitution gives congress the power to issue debt. With that power is obviously and inherently the requirement to repay that debt. It does not give congress the power to willfully default on debts. So, Biden should just have OLC or WH counsel issue a statement to that effect and make the house seek a writ of mandamus to force the default. I doubt they get it.
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May 26, 2023 02:29
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Nephthys posted:But the thing is that Republicans aren't gunning for racist, transphobic, or really any MAGA-centric issues. Their list of demands are things like work requirements, rescinding Covid funds, easier fossil fuel permits, cuts to climate legislation, capping debt spending.... in other words almost entirely a bunch of boring economic policies. It's entirely self-defeating to blow up the economy for these things. These aren't policies that either the base or string-pullers care enough about to justify self-destruction over. Those are the issues on the table because they have NOTHING substantial to demand, they took forever to make their proposal because they couldn't figure out what to demand, because there really is no more meat on the bones of the us government to cut, but they feel obligated to get "SOMETHING" out of the debt ceiling fight, so they threw in some ancient go to's for the gop and some other stuff and called it a day.
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May 26, 2023 04:07
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Could you guys please move the USCE politics chat to the USCE politics thread?
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May 26, 2023 04:09
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Chansley/Bison had a 41 month prison sentence, was released from the facility after 15 months, and, two months later, is now loading up Twitter and heading in for OANN interviews. It seems the legal system is still learning how to deal with stochastic terrorism in the Internet age. I can only hope, by the time they get to T, that shutting down treasonous communication becomes part of the sentencing.
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May 26, 2023 05:29
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Zotix posted:If Donnie is indicted for the classified documents would he be released pending the trial just as he was in the NY case? Or is he likely to be in custody while that plays out? Just for optics, public interest, yadda yadda yadda, DoJ will likely have words with the USSS to essentially turn from his bodyguards to his prison guards. So he'll be allowed to move around because they probably want to be careful about the precedence of using an indictment to prevent a presidential candidate from campaigning, plus he's already got government agents who go everywhere he goes so there's a bunch of minimization of flight risks.
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May 26, 2023 15:49
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:I can only hope, by the time they get to T, that shutting down treasonous communication becomes part of the sentencing. They will never ever ever ever do "prior restraint" over political stochastic terrorism for an ex-president They probably wouldn't even do it for Nazis (but I repeat myself)
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May 26, 2023 17:27
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Another Oath Keeper gets 8.5 years in jail.
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May 26, 2023 19:00
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The Question IRL posted:I think one of the things to realize is politics has moved in the last 20 years for Centre politics being "we will do awful things....but feel bad about it." I just wish they could see, even for a moment, that no, them dipping their toes in the racist river isn't being sensible due to changing circumstances, it's just racism as it's always been.
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May 26, 2023 19:02
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Crosby B. Alfred posted:Trump's base or what I like to say his core group of supporters are indeed supporting him but that likely isn't enough to win an election. The Senate Minority Leader hates his balls. Members of the GOP voted against his impeachment completely including unexpected ones like Tom Rice. Right wing media is beginning to bring on other conservatives that are criticizing him or that they like him but he needs to tone it down, go with a different approach, etc. which is is huge change. Hieronymous Alloy posted:I don't think "the GOP" is making any sort of calculation at all. They're just a bunch of fundamentally irrational actors. If the bus from Speed had been half full of maniacs and idiots who panicked randomly and kept doing random idiot poo poo because it felt good in the moment, or gently caress those people on the road, or gently caress those other people in the bus with them, or gently caress it YOLO, or whatever . . . . eventually the bus would crash. That's all this is. I think this is why the GOP is for real in trouble now: it's not the electorate becoming more liberal, it's the GOP going so far right that they've let Biden outflank them from the RIGHT on the economy. Everyone talks about the MAGAs but Biden will always have the DNC diehards and now he's winning the fiscal conservatives who are ok with gay/minority rights as long as their taxes and regulations remain low. Basically, I'm worried short-term about the GOP going full fascist and violent, but longer term I'm more worried about the DNC becoming the actual overpowered right-wing party that just doesn't actively hunt "undesirables" in the streets. Grip it and rip it posted:Maybe it's my eternal optimism that makes me believe that behind the facade of insanity the GOP has some rational actors pulling the strings and directing the CHUDs to make sure their networth continues to grow. I will admit I could very easily be wrong about that arrangement, but I certainly hope that is the case. I think those people are filtering to the DNC, which is the smart move for them as they can more easily strangle actual left-wing movements in the crib from there. Moktaro fucked around with this message at 02:12 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 02:09
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Moktaro posted:Basically, I'm worried short-term about the GOP going full fascist and violent, but longer term I'm more worried about the DNC becoming the actual overpowered right-wing party that just doesn't actively hunt "undesirables" in the streets. What you should be worried about is the Supreme Court. Unless a Dem president starts stacking (and let's be honest, not one of them would have the balls), we are absolutely hosed for a very long time, regardless of the President's political affiliation.
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May 30, 2023 02:16
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The Bible posted:What you should be worried about is the Supreme Court. Unless a Dem president starts stacking (and let's be honest, not one of them would have the balls), we are absolutely hosed for a very long time, regardless of the President's political affiliation. You understand that SCOTUS justices aren't just appointed by presidential fiat, right? It's not a matter of "balls".
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May 30, 2023 03:21
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Discendo Vox posted:You understand that SCOTUS justices aren't just appointed by presidential fiat, right? It's not a matter of "balls". The President can increase the number of justices. You're right though, he'd have to get it through Congress, and that's just not going to happen.
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May 30, 2023 03:39
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The Bible posted:The President can increase the number of justices. Right, increasing the number is just simple legislation unlike most proposed changes to SCOTUS, but there are still inexplicably some decorum golems in the D caucus.
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May 30, 2023 04:03
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There's always the option of a President just going "And how are you gonna enforce that?" the next time the Law Wizards just make poo poo up, but that's also a decent way to kick off a constitutional crisis, and probably get impeached/convicted, so that won't happen.
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May 30, 2023 05:22
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Fuschia tude posted:Right, increasing the number is just simple legislation unlike most proposed changes to SCOTUS, but there are still inexplicably some decorum golems in the D caucus. It's not like the Dems are the only ones who find court-packing to be beyond the pale. Despite spending decades under the heel of liberal Supreme Courts that eagerly struck down conservative policies as completely unconstitutional, the GOP doesn't seem to have ever considered openly packing the court. azflyboy posted:There's always the option of a President just going "And how are you gonna enforce that?" the next time the Law Wizards just make poo poo up, but that's also a decent way to kick off a constitutional crisis, and probably get impeached/convicted, so that won't happen. The same way any other court enforces their rulings: with the cooperation of the various career civil servants who recognize that their power is drawn from their uncontested legal authority granted by the legitimate workings of the system, and understand that it would be illegal for them to carry out presidential orders that have been ruled unconstitutional by the Court. While there are certainly a few executive agencies that generally aren't too concerned with things like the rule of law, most of the federal bureaucracy is unlikely to willingly defy a Supreme Court ruling, even if the president is ordering them to do so. Any conversation about the Supreme Court is probably more suited for USCE or a separate thread, though, rather than the Trump Legal Troubles thread. How about we take it over there?
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May 30, 2023 05:54
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It might be time to recognize reality instead of yearning for somebody to flip the board. Dems and their constituents dropped the ball in a major way in 2016 and missed what was likely a once in a lifetime opportunity to shift the composition of the court. It stings but them's the breaks. Asking the country to face civil war to change that error just isn't going to happen. Frankly the only time it was ever seriously considered was when the nation was unified in a way we haven't seen since the aftermath of 9/11. It's not a question of will or balls, its a question of opportunity and consequence, and I don't imagine it will ever satisfy both of those considerations Grip it and rip it fucked around with this message at 16:09 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 16:04
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It also really only "solves" the problem until the next administration increases the size of the court again. I'd probably see a SC the size of Congress in my lifetime.
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May 30, 2023 17:19
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Fuschia tude posted:Right, increasing the number is just simple legislation unlike most proposed changes to SCOTUS, but there are still inexplicably some decorum golems in the D caucus. Contrast with the Congress of 1937 where Democrats were off a wave election with a crushing 334-88 seat lead in the House and 75-17 in the Senate. Literally the last time a party had 75% of the Senate, and the plan to deal with an obstinate right-wing court by packing was an enormous failure that derailed their control as much as the court itself. I mean, I'm for court packing not just for the immediate benefits but because a larger court with some rules adjustable by statute can do a lot to defang the current problems of a politicized court that can be wildly shifted by the timing of a couple of deaths. But it's hard to take it seriously when people paint modern Democrats as being a divided cowardly failure of a party for not doing it with the barest possible majority (and now not even that) when the actual standards used make the New Deal Democrats look like an absolute gutless wet turd on that and lots of other consequential votes. For good or ill we live in an era of almost unprecedented ideological unity in both parties, and that's even counting Bernie and Manchin both as Democrats. As we've seen in a number of sharply divided state legislatures recently, the Federal government is probably gonna get real active when it's not at such a close deadlock like it's been for years now. Edit: fixed a typo. Killer robot fucked around with this message at 19:34 on May 30, 2023 |
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May 30, 2023 17:49
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Crow Buddy posted:It also really only "solves" the problem until the next administration increases the size of the court again. A single increase alone doesn't "solve" anything. That's not the point. It's the same idea as gerrymandering: MAD. You're just going to keep escalating every time control flips in the federal government/each state, respectively, so once that being an intractable problem becomes undeniably blisteringly clear even to the bad-faith side you can force them down to work out an actual permanent solution. Meaning amendment.
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May 30, 2023 18:48
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I realize it is far from an ideal solution, but the alternative is just sitting by helplessly as the current Supreme Court, composed of a decent number of frankly unqualified individuals appointed solely because of their extreme religious beliefs and at least one known for a fact to be compromised, obliterates civil right after civil right with absolutely no possible recourse. Probably for the next 4 or 5 decades.
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May 31, 2023 00:10
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The Bible posted:I realize it is far from an ideal solution, but the alternative is just sitting by helplessly as the current Supreme Court, composed of a decent number of frankly unqualified individuals appointed solely because of their extreme religious beliefs and at least one known for a fact to be compromised, obliterates civil right after civil right with absolutely no possible recourse. Probably for the next 4 or 5 decades. I think both parties are reluctant to pack the court because what will happen is that both sides will just keep doing that every time they hold power and then eventually we'll have like 75 justices, which is just an exponential acceleration of the problem. The real thing that chafes my rear end about is that, once again, the GOP was able to say "gently caress decorum and precedent" and then just flat out refuse to hold hearings on Obama's rightful nomination while fast tracking Trump's and then (successfully) act like this is just a normal thing to do. They completely changed the game on how these judges get appointed and confirmed. Republicans have won the popular vote TWICE in like the last 3 decades and still have a solid majority in the highest court in the land, with several judges being appointed by a President with fewer overall votes. They're kind of good at this poo poo.
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May 31, 2023 00:57
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tldr: Bad courts lead to treason.Grip it and rip it posted:Frankly the only time it was ever seriously considered was when the nation was unified in a way we haven't seen since the aftermath of 9/11. It's not a question of will or balls, its a question of opportunity and consequence, and I don't imagine it will ever satisfy both of those considerations In one term, T had three. Kavanaugh being well right of Kennedy, and Barrett being laughably insane compared to Ginsberg. Correcting for three will take twenty to forty years, most likely, and that's just to arrive at a comfortable center. Undoing the damage will take longer. Together, GW and T probably put things back 60yr (policywise). Women's rights, separate but equal, veterans... even existing. These things are again questions. (Obama gave us Kagan, slight move to center, and Sotomayor, left, but only because her predecessor took some years to get there.) (Clinton, two, one being RBG, obviously leftward.) So the real issue is all the two term presidents averaging two appointees, with one moderate and one moving toward the party position, but single-term-T crapped out three at a 60% hard right rate. Meanwhile Rs blocking Obama, RBG not retiring (arguably proper since the court isn't supposed to be politics), and now the hold-ups from Feinstein (up to 5/11 it seems). But to pull this back to the Trump thread, the terror started with the SC deciding the 2000 election. Seeing that again in 2020 was maddening even though they had nothing, even after AZ months of recounting. If the SC had been 6-3 liberal and told T to go away, then there could be some grievance, but a moderate SC and 65 other cases saying the vote was accurate, soliciting armed individuals to stage a coup was treasonous. The first step of repair is getting the conspirators and liars off the airwaves and into prison.
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May 31, 2023 01:26
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:
I'm glad you brought this up because I often wonder how history and America's role in it might have gone differently had AL Gore been president prior to and on 9/11. I'm not saying he would have been a great president, prevented the WTC attack or that we all still wouldn't be turbo hosed right now but I think it's fair at a minimum to assume that the Iraq invasion doesn't happen and that some earlier and very critical work on climate change would have been initiated. Also, that (perhaps) certain terrorism intelligence might have been given more weight at least. Those are three pretty big things in 2000 that would have had vastly different approaches at a minimum and far more desirable outcomes at the max, to say nothing of SCOTUS. But I guess Gore was boring and invented the internet while George Bush was the guy we wanted to have a beer with and had "that whole cowboy thing going on" where people "dug his style, man". You know who a lot of people have beers with? Drunk idiots in bars who talk a lot of stupid poo poo and have dumb ideas. Myself included.
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May 31, 2023 02:07
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It’s almost like elections should be more like job interviews where we want boring nerds.
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May 31, 2023 02:10
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