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post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

https://www.theregister.com/2023/06/01/ftc_alexa_ring_amazon_settlement/ posted:

America's Federal Trade Commission has made Amazon a case study for every cautionary tale about how sloppily designed internet-of-things devices and associated services represent a risk to privacy – and made the cost of those actions, as alleged, a mere $30.8 million.

The regulator on Wednesday charged, via the US Dept of Justice, two Amazon outfits with various privacy snafus.

The e-tail giant’s Ring home security cam subsidiary was accused of “compromising its customers’ privacy by allowing any employee or contractor to access consumers’ private videos and by failing to implement basic privacy and security protections, enabling hackers to take control of consumers’ accounts, cameras, and videos.”

“Not only could every Ring employee and Ukraine-based third-party contractor access every customer’s videos (all of which were stored unencrypted on Ring’s network), but they could also readily download any customer’s videos and then view, share, or disclose those videos at will,” reads the FTC's complaint [PDF].

The document goes on to describe how “a customer service agent might need access to the video data of a particular customer to troubleshoot a problem, that same customer service agent had unfettered access to videos belonging to thousands of customers who never contacted customer service.”

Another nightmare: “Although an engineer working on Ring’s floodlight camera might need access to some video data from outdoor devices, that engineer had unrestricted access to footage of the inside of customers’ bedrooms.”

Ring staff weren’t trained on how to handle private data. And some abused it, horribly, according to the consumer watchdog.

The complaint details one employee who, the FTC said, “viewed thousands of video recordings belonging to at least 81 unique female users,” and “focused his prurient searches on cameras with names indicating that they surveilled an intimate space, such as ‘Master Bedroom,’ ‘Master Bathroom,’ or ‘Spy Cam’.”

The employee spent more than an hour a day on this revolting stuff, undetected by Ring, for months, it was claimed.

When a female coworker reported this activity, her supervisor “discounted the report, telling the female employee that it is ‘normal’ for an engineer to view so many accounts," the FTC noted.

“Only after the supervisor noticed that the male employee was only viewing videos of ‘pretty girls’ did the supervisor escalate the report of misconduct.”

Ring responded to that 2017 incident by restricting some access to vids for customer service staff, but other employees retained access to vids, the watchdog said.

The FTC complaint also alleges Ring knew its cloud services were susceptible to credential stuffing and brute-force attacks but did little to stymie such efforts. 55,000 US-based Ring customers’ accounts were therefore compromised, meaning “bad actors gained access to hundreds of thousands of videos of the personal spaces of consumers’ homes.”

The miscreants also had access to users’ accounts, which is where things get worse because Ring devices provide real-time messaging and communications, the FTC pointed out. Those breaking into people's accounts thus were able to interact with customers via their Ring devices. “Several women lying in bed heard hackers curse at them,” the complaint states, and “several children were the objects of hackers’ racist slurs.”

On another occasion “a hacker told an individual through her camera that the hacker had killed the individual’s mother and then directly threatened the individual: ‘Tonight you die’.”

The complaint details even nastier attacks – skip pages 13 and 14 to avoid references to incidents of a sexual nature.

We've previously reported stories of miscreants breaking into victim's Ring devices to terrorize them in their own homes, and of workers being fired for abusing their access to the equipment.

The complaint points out that customers were warned that Ring gave itself extensive rights to access their videos in its Terms of Service and Privacy Policy, but criticizes those documents as being a “buried half-explanation” that gave people “no reasonable way of knowing that hundreds of Ring employees and third-party contractors in Ukraine had unfettered access to live streams and stored videos.”

The FTC’s complaint pointed out that Ring’s main marketing message was that it's products improve safety, yet its actions meant its products did the opposite.
Alexa? Rat out my kids

The FTC also took on Amazon over its Alexa devices’ data-retention policies.

“Amazon retained children’s recordings indefinitely—unless a parent requested that this information be deleted,” the FTC alleged. “And even when a parent sought to delete that information… Amazon failed to delete transcripts of what kids said from all its databases.”

Amazon argued the data retention was necessary to, among other things, train Alexa’s underlying AI models to improve the recognition of children’s voices.

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Beeftweeter
Jun 28, 2005

OFFICIAL #1 GNOME FAN
holy poo poo lol

seems really bad

ADINSX
Sep 9, 2003

Wanna run with my crew huh? Rule cyberspace and crunch numbers like I do?

That’s insane Jesus Christ; I’ll never have a networked security camera anywhere near my home

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

hey ring maybe automatically flag anyone that names a camera "spy cam" for further review, just a suggestion

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

Shame Boy posted:

hey ring maybe automatically flag anyone that names a camera "spy cam" for further review, just a suggestion

done.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple on pizzadog derangement syndrome
i expected it to be bad but not that bad

BMan
Oct 31, 2015

KNIIIIIIFE
EEEEEYYYYE
ATTAAAACK


post hole digger posted:

and made the cost of those actions, as alleged, a mere $30.8 million.

smithers, my wallet's in my right front pocket

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff


Passive aggressive little poo poo. Or a typical incorrigible DCS player.

I like to imagine it was also playing buttrock while writing a greentext.



Source:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/highlights-from-the-raes-future-combat-air-space-capabilities-summit/

edit:
I had to explain what this meant to my mom because she heard me laughing about it during a visit and I explained:
"imagine the most passive aggressive maliciously compliant person you can, like the worst rear end in a top hat lawyer imaginable, and now imagine they're also an armed unmanned plane."

Immediately she replied "like Stealth?" and I had to ask her what that was.
the buttrock is a nice touch, but no lol

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 12:25 on Jun 2, 2023

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

Expo70 posted:



Passive aggressive little poo poo. Or a typical incorrigible DCS player.

I like to imagine it was also playing buttrock while writing a greentext.



Source:

https://www.aerosociety.com/news/highlights-from-the-raes-future-combat-air-space-capabilities-summit/

edit:
I had to explain what this meant to my mom because she heard me laughing about it during a visit and I explained:
"imagine the most passive aggressive maliciously compliant person you can, like the worst rear end in a top hat lawyer imaginable, and now imagine they're also an armed unmanned plane."

Immediately she replied "like Stealth?" and I had to ask her what that was.
the buttrock is a nice touch, but no lol


infernal machines posted:

:shrug: they've been wargaming these things for two decades. the simulations aren't weapons systems, and there's no guarantee that they can build effective autonomous weapons from them. they still have to draw the rest of the loving owl, so to speak

this specific thing reads a lot like something that's being reported on in this way because it dovetails with the current fears of ai, also being breathlessly reported by the tech and industry press. it's not new, it's not unusual, and it's no more of a threat than any of the previous times their simulations did broken poo poo.

https://twitter.com/harris_edouard/status/1664582667382267905

i assumed it was specification gaming, turns out it wasn't even that, it was bad reporting

infernal machines fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Jun 2, 2023

PIZZA.BAT
Nov 12, 2016


:cheers:



$30 million isn’t even a slap on the wrist wtf. hopefully there’s an army of lawyers preparing an absolute spirit bomb of a class action over this

jemand
Sep 19, 2018

PIZZA.BAT posted:

$30 million isn’t even a slap on the wrist wtf. hopefully there’s an army of lawyers preparing an absolute spirit bomb of a class action over this

I noted a bit of a trend of that sort of thing when I read through several FTC blog posts.

Part 1) Description of absolutely horrendous corporate abuses, at fantastic scale and ongoing for many, many years.
Part 2) FTC language that sounds serious, as if this govt agency is enforcing justice and strongly warning any other potential wrongdoers to mend their way.
Part 3) Closes with listing the official punishment which is never more than an insignificant fine compared against the piles of profit their misbehavior gained.


Despite clear statements that in a vacuum look like it's appropriate warnings for terrible corporate behavior, if they are correctly read in context with the dollar values present it's just insignificant yapping. One can point to the language written as a lightning rod for any public anger that might surface, then smile at the dollar values and wink at the c-suite. I'm sure such services are well remembered and rewarded post govt appointment when it comes time to give out various lobying positions, etc. I'm not sure anything else is even possible anymore? I hope to be proven wrong...

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

infernal machines posted:

https://twitter.com/harris_edouard/status/1664582667382267905

i assumed it was specification gaming, turns out it wasn't even that, it was bad reporting

so it was specification gaming -- but it was the journalist not the drone :lol:

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 14:07 on Jun 2, 2023

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
you havent been able to reliably trust tech reporting since the 1800s. maybe the 1700s

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.
yeah there was no ai or sim. it was a thought experiment.

https://twitter.com/lee_georgina/status/1664585717358395392

mystes
May 31, 2006

maybe it was the same source as the bloomberg supermicro story

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

they should try making the fine thirty billion dollars

Coco13
Jun 6, 2004

My advice to you is to start drinking heavily.

I love to refer to a breach of privacy on an unprecedented scale as a snafu in my journalism.

mystes
May 31, 2006

The technical term is an oopsie

haveblue
Aug 15, 2005



Toilet Rascal
if especially bad, oopsie woopsie

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



situation normal: all hosed up

mystes
May 31, 2006

It's so stupid that ring was like a spying-on-customers free for all and they just got in trouble with the ftc for false advertising. This country loving sucks.

It's like Matt Levine's idea that everything is securities fraud because that's the only way we can punish companies for doing all the terrible stuff we don't actually regulate in the us

Eeyo
Aug 29, 2004

this is why i bought a baby monitor that doesn't use the internet. if someone really wants to hack into it they'll have to drive their creep van next to my house with enough antenna and rf equipment.

mystes
May 31, 2006

maybe we need, I don't know, some kind of privacy laws? I guess actually having laws against bad stuff would be some sort of radical communism?

Sapozhnik
Jan 2, 2005

Nap Ghost
when the country is experiencing incipient swastikas-and-death-camps level fascism then being for or against this development sucks all of the social activism oxygen out of the room

an arrangement that works out very nicely for those who hold large amounts of property at least in the short to medium term

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

mystes posted:

maybe we need, I don't know, some kind of privacy laws? I guess actually having laws against bad stuff would be some sort of radical communism?

why do you hate innovation and job creators you hitler

jemand
Sep 19, 2018

mystes posted:

maybe we need, I don't know, some kind of privacy laws? I guess actually having laws against bad stuff would be some sort of radical communism?

"The free market accurately identifies human value. If it's profitable, by definition it is good, so laws or regulations to stop anything that is increasing stock value would be evil. "
:capitalism:

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.

mystes posted:

maybe we need, I don't know, some kind of privacy laws? I guess actually having laws against bad stuff would be some sort of radical communism?

buddy, you can have all the laws you want. someone somewhere would still have to enforce them for them to mean anything

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

me @ ur posts


Fun Shoe

haveblue posted:

if especially bad, oopsie woopsie
https://twitter.com/cherrikissu/status/972524442600558594

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
As an employee of one of the sites that serves up those 503 pages for some big names, the trend is dying off, fortunately.


At least were not cloudflare with their horrible default 503 page with the diagram proving Its Not Cloudflare - Blame The Customer! it's so loving embarrassing

fart simpson
Jul 2, 2005

DEATH TO AMERICA
:xickos:

Jonny 290 posted:

As an employee of one of the sites that serves up those 503 pages for some big names, the trend is dying off, fortunately.


At least were not cloudflare with their horrible default 503 page with the diagram proving Its Not Cloudflare - Blame The Customer! it's so loving embarrassing

i like that cloudflare page because it tells me right away if my own junk that nobody else uses anyway is not working or if its yet another cloudflare outage

post hole digger
Mar 21, 2011

ya i love it when cloudflare always says its an origin server issue even if i can bypass cf and hit the origin server just fine :shepicide:

akadajet
Sep 14, 2003

post hole digger posted:

ya i love it when cloudflare always says its an origin server issue even if i can bypass cf and hit the origin server just fine :shepicide:

if cloudflare is serving me a page saying poo poo is broken, then it's cloudflare's fault. always.

theflyingexecutive
Apr 22, 2007

FMguru posted:

actiblizz: it was those rat-bastard unions that made us harass and abuse and molest our female employees!

Activision Blizzard CEO denies culture of harassment and blames unions for company problems

at least the verges writer isnt buying it

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/1/23744109/activision-blizzard-bobby-kotick-denies-harassment-variety

i feel that any press you receive especially if it's denying sexual abuse should have a 72pt flashing disclaimer under the headline if your cell phone number appears in epstein's book

MeruFM
Jul 27, 2010
we randomize between akamai, couldfront, and cloudflare

infernal machines
Oct 11, 2012

we monitor many frequencies. we listen always. came a voice, out of the babel of tongues, speaking to us. it played us a mighty dub.
so if anything works it's completely accidental?

Cybernetic Vermin
Apr 18, 2005

infernal machines posted:

so if anything works it's completely accidental?

take it to the ai thread please

Chris Knight
Jun 5, 2002

me @ ur posts


Fun Shoe

MeruFM posted:

we randomize between akamai, couldfront, and cloudflare
like on purpose?

Eeyo
Aug 29, 2004

must be like comcast service, just have every engineer sign up so you perpetually get introductory offers

Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
multi cdn is a pretty common thing but its frustrating to troubleshoot if anything goes wrong

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Jonny 290
May 5, 2005



[ASK] me about OS/2 Warp
lol cloudfront tho

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