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Applying the AssCreed formula to SW, which is what they’ll probably do, shouldn’t be that big of a stretch. I did however stop playing Far Cry games after 5. They’d been leaning into “Grim and lovely endings mean good writing” for a while and 5” the fifth one was too much for me. Bad endings might be more of a company mandate for the franchise at this point though.
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Jun 13, 2023 03:45
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Lord Hydronium posted:I'm rereading the Stackpole books now too and also enjoying them. It is kind of funny and a little excessive that Corran is an ace fighter pilot and a top cop and a secret Jedi and he has two sexy ladies competing for his attention in the earlier books. Stackpole's approach to writing Star Wars feels like a slightly lesser version of Zahn; he's going for those big movie-like archetypes in characters and plots and generally succeeds, but his characters don't quite hit the same level as Zahn's, the hand of the author is a little more obvious in his plotting, and his movie references feel a little more forced. And probably the thing that sets him the most apart from Allston, if you're not one of the half-dozen main characters, he doesn't particularly care to spend much time on you; I'm halfway through Bacta War and I'm not sure I can tell you a single thing about Rhysati other than that she's dating Nawara. All that said, he still hits that indescribable "Star Wars feel" and I think that helps iron over a lot of the rough patches. Based on publishing data, the Xwing Comics came a hair earlier than the books, which helped establish a lot of the characters too. By a hair I mean "The comics started in 95, the books in 96, and both ran basically concurrently". I think the fact that there was a full court press on these characters, along with the fact that him and Zahn had fun writing each others characters into each other's books meant that you couldn't get away from the characters if you tried. For example in one of the Short Story compilations (Tales of the Empire?) there's a 4 part story about Thrawn and Booster Terrick in Corellia. Stackpole will freely admit that he's a bit mercenary with his books. In one of his early battletech books that got reprinted (the Warrior books) he mentions that the company had just wanted 20k words, so he wrote them a story at that mark. And later they said they didn't have a financial reason to reprint the works, so he just told them to use better art and raise the cost of the books by a dollar (from 6 bux to 7) and he got them to reprint the works.
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Jun 13, 2023 03:49
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I personally don’t mind Stackpole’s work. Corran is a bit too front and center but it’s not egregious as far as I’m concerned. I will say in hindsight that Erisi is so obviously the spy from book 1. It’s telegraphed so hard that anyone 12 or older should have been able to figure that out.
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Jun 13, 2023 04:04
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Dapper_Swindler posted:semi off topic, that was kinda my feeling about alot of the cast of squadrons game. like the new republic characters were just boring noble bright happy palidans of light who would never stop smiling or making the same 2 jokes and not bossk gambles. the imp were at least interesting in the sense that they were all super broken people who were either some sort of sociopath or broken sunk coster who kept coming back because they were either a Cop or some poor gently caress who got glued backtogether 30 times. Ironically enough the Alphabet crew are a miserable bunch of fuckers and I love them for it Still my favorite book trilogy in the new canon
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Jun 13, 2023 05:01
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I definitely enjoyed Alphabet Squadron because the characters were all just horribly broken people.
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Jun 13, 2023 06:48
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Haven't seen anyone be super excited about getting to play a Mirax Terrik game.
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Jun 13, 2023 08:28
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Chairman Capone posted:Outlaws' lead writer was the head writer on Far Cry 6 and Watch Dogs: Legion, didn't play either of those but seems like the stories of both weren't great, but I also can't really remember the last Star Wars game with a really good story (haven't played Jedi: Survivor yet so can't comment on that). Survivor and Fallen Order are... fine but the latter especially has large chunks where you're not doing anything story related because you want to scale a mountain and see if there's a new cosmetic chest up there which feels like both feature and bug. When it focuses on the characters it's pretty good. Like a lot of people I felt like making the MC a standard white dude was the most boring choice possible but I came around on Cal. His supporting cast is pretty good too, especially his Nightsister buddy Merrin. (I keep hearing the tie-in novel is super horny for a Star Wars book.)
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Jun 13, 2023 09:37
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[Lord Hydronium posted:And probably the thing that sets him the most apart from Allston, if you're not one of the half-dozen main characters, he doesn't particularly care to spend much time on you; I'm halfway through Bacta War and I'm not sure I can tell you a single thing about Rhysati other than that she's dating Nawara. All that said, he still hits that indescribable "Star Wars feel" and I think that helps iron over a lot of the rough patches. Dawgstar posted:for some reason Corran constantly referring to telekinesis as 'teke' - which by the way he wasn't good at - were irritating to me even then. bunnyofdoom posted:No it shouldn't. Alphabet/=language. Once you accept how stupid the world we live in is then accepting how stupid the worlds we create are is much easier.
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Jun 13, 2023 14:03
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Lord Hydronium posted:And probably the thing that sets him the most apart from Allston, if you're not one of the half-dozen main characters, he doesn't particularly care to spend much time on you; I'm halfway through Bacta War and I'm not sure I can tell you a single thing about Rhysati other than that she's dating Nawara. I’ve said this multiple times before, but you can look at the roster at the beginning of Stackpole’s X-wing books and there’s usually three or four characters who never get a single line or bit of characterization. Another one who is an example of that like Rhysati is Riv Shiel, who is Gavin’s wingman through the first four books. I think he only gets a total of like two lines of dialogue, the most background info we get from him is IIRC a single line about him having a death sentence on him for killing a Stormtrooper, and that’s just thrown out in comparison to more Corran backstory early in the first book, and then in Bacta War he gets randomly killed in an ambush, after which there’s a short time jump that covers up any grieving period Gavin would have had. This all is a pretty stark contrast to Allston’s Wraith books, where pretty much every character gets some exposition and development and involved at least a little bit in the story, so when Wraiths start dropping, it has much more impact than “Oh, Rogue Two got blown up.”
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Jun 13, 2023 14:13
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FPyat posted:Haven't seen anyone be super excited about getting to play a Mirax Terrik game. Slowly raises hand.
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Jun 13, 2023 14:51
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thrawn527 posted:Slowly raises hand. It's an ubisoft open world game. Get excited for the sequel cause that's when it will not suck ( see Ac, watch dogs, etc.)
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Jun 13, 2023 15:15
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bunnyofdoom posted:It's an ubisoft open world game. I like the AC series. A lot. I mentioned this in the Star Wars TV thread, but Odyssey is one of my favorite games ever, and I've replayed Brotherhood and Black Flag multiple times. Yeah, the first one wasn't very good, but saying that they're bad at the first game in a series just feels like a meme. There's no reason they can't take lessons learned from one game and take them to another. I never played Watch Dogs, but I'm aware of the problems with it. I don't care. What I've seen of the gameplay here, and the fact that open world games are my favorite type of game, makes this a pre-order for me. Let me wander around the galaxy, only occasionally focusing on story missions, like I sailed around the Caribbean in Black Flag. I'm all in, until shown it'll suck. I'm an easy mark for this stuff. thrawn527 fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jun 13, 2023 |
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Jun 13, 2023 15:24
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The AssCreed formula should work fine for SW unless they completely rush it through development too fast. I have Battle Scars on Audible but the first few chapters weren’t grabbing me. The Jedi Survivor games thread said that the author kind of goes off in left field with her self-insert and Merrin having a relationship. I’ll get around to finishing it some day but that’s kind of cringey.
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Jun 13, 2023 16:12
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fartknocker posted:I’ve said this multiple times before, but you can look at the roster at the beginning of Stackpole’s X-wing books and there’s usually three or four characters who never get a single line or bit of characterization. Another one who is an example of that like Rhysati is Riv Shiel, who is Gavin’s wingman through the first four books. I think he only gets a total of like two lines of dialogue, the most background info we get from him is IIRC a single line about him having a death sentence on him for killing a Stormtrooper, and that’s just thrown out in comparison to more Corran backstory early in the first book, and then in Bacta War he gets randomly killed in an ambush, after which there’s a short time jump that covers up any grieving period Gavin would have had. I think Gavin is probably the best example of this. His character was basically "Hey! It's Biggs kid brother. You remember Biggs? Luke's friend from the first movie!?" for the first few books. He only really takes a larger role in the later books where's banging a Bothan.
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Jun 13, 2023 17:58
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Am I remembering right that Corran, Gavin, and Rookie One all became Jedi?
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Jun 14, 2023 10:28
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Gavin never became a Jedi in legends. You might be thinking of Keyan Farlander, another X-wing pilot turned Jedi
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Jun 14, 2023 10:38
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Chairman Capone posted:Outlaws' lead writer was the head writer on Far Cry 6 and Watch Dogs: Legion, didn't play either of those but seems like the stories of both weren't great, but I also can't really remember the last Star Wars game with a really good story (haven't played Jedi: Survivor yet so can't comment on that). 6 had a solid enough story, legions was a giant mess with some cool world building that you will miss way to easily. Calax posted:I think Gavin is probably the best example of this. His character was basically "Hey! It's Biggs kid brother. You remember Biggs? Luke's friend from the first movie!?" for the first few books. He only really takes a larger role in the later books where's banging a Bothan. that whole plot is weird because doesnt she get like her death faked and he learns about it or some poo poo because borsk is a psycho. idk. Borsk is weird character because i like that he is just a giant douche who is extreamly cut throat and is basicaly trying to play game of thrones politics in a trying to be peaceful democratic goverment. i kinda like the zahn approach of him just being outplayed because the military doesnt want to listen to some ex spook turned senator gently caress over their friends.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:19
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Dawgstar posted:Survivor and Fallen Order are... fine but the latter especially has large chunks where you're not doing anything story related because you want to scale a mountain and see if there's a new cosmetic chest up there which feels like both feature and bug. When it focuses on the characters it's pretty good. Like a lot of people I felt like making the MC a standard white dude was the most boring choice possible but I came around on Cal. His supporting cast is pretty good too, especially his Nightsister buddy Merrin. (I keep hearing the tie-in novel is super horny for a Star Wars book.) yeah, i never get the weird hate for cal, like I get it but like he is a genuinly likable dude who has been through some really traumatic poo poo and deals with it pretty healthyly. I more have issues with how the games are paced and i dont think the souls reset poo poo works well for the style of game they made.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:22
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Dapper_Swindler posted:that whole plot is weird because doesnt she get like her death faked and he learns about it or some poo poo because borsk is a psycho. idk. Borsk is weird character because i like that he is just a giant douche who is extreamly cut throat and is basicaly trying to play game of thrones politics in a trying to be peaceful democratic goverment. i kinda like the zahn approach of him just being outplayed because the military doesnt want to listen to some ex spook turned senator gently caress over their friends. I think the way that Zahn depicts Borsk is a lot different from what other authors did with him. Borsk in Zahn is not meant to be right from an "objective" viewpoint but he's also working for what he sees is the true common good, it's just that his view of the common good involves shifting the balance of power away from human domination (including towards the Bothans of course) in which he felt the New Republic wasn't that different from the Empire. In the Hand of Thrawn books he works with Leia. I feel like Stackpole is the one who turned him into a sort of stock evil rear end in a top hat politician who's in it for his own personal power. Especially paired with the fact that after the Thrawn Trilogy, Stackpole is probably the author who used him the most (he's not really that major in the other Bantam books, even Hand of Thrawn) and the NJO authors went more with Stackpole's take.
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Jun 14, 2023 15:47
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Dapper_Swindler posted:that whole plot is weird because doesnt she get like her death faked and he learns about it or some poo poo because borsk is a psycho. idk. Borsk is weird character because i like that he is just a giant douche who is extreamly cut throat and is basicaly trying to play game of thrones politics in a trying to be peaceful democratic goverment. i kinda like the zahn approach of him just being outplayed because the military doesnt want to listen to some ex spook turned senator gently caress over their friends. Gavin either never found out about Asyr surviving, or didn’t learn until post NJO-era after it had been 20~ years and he’d already moved on, gotten married, and had kids of his own. IIRC, both he and Borsk and pretty much everyone outside of Mirax and Iella (And Booster?) thought she died.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:00
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Re: Mirax, I really liked whoever they cast to play her for the old Star Wars CCG.
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Jun 14, 2023 16:03
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Dapper_Swindler posted:that whole plot is weird because doesnt she get like her death faked and he learns about it or some poo poo because borsk is a psycho. idk. Borsk is weird character because i like that he is just a giant douche who is extreamly cut throat and is basicaly trying to play game of thrones politics in a trying to be peaceful democratic goverment. i kinda like the zahn approach of him just being outplayed because the military doesnt want to listen to some ex spook turned senator gently caress over their friends. IIRC that entire sub-plot boiled down to racism/speciesism Gavin and his girl wanted kids, but biologically couldn't have any, so they tried to adopt. Borsk interfered to prevent any adoption from happening because he didn't want a Bothan hero being seen to not have a Bothan family. Because of this they fake her death and another bothan character years later makes a comment that she was inspired by her teacher to GTFO out Bothan society and explore the republic or something. In the wider scope, Borsk is a victim of the fact these books are basically written with a younger audience. If Politics are happening he ends up being the one that opposes Leia in the new Senate, no matter what. Mostly because there are only really 3 active political operators in the entire Republic (Leia, Borsk, and Mon Mothma), and one of them is basically a non-entity.
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Jun 14, 2023 17:46
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Calax posted:IIRC that entire sub-plot boiled down to racism/speciesism Gavin and his girl wanted kids, but biologically couldn't have any, so they tried to adopt. Borsk interfered to prevent any adoption from happening because he didn't want a Bothan hero being seen to not have a Bothan family. Because of this they fake her death and another bothan character years later makes a comment that she was inspired by her teacher to GTFO out Bothan society and explore the republic or something. i will say this. the weird political faction poo poo brought up in the new canon claudia grey book works way way better. like the fact that alot of ex imperials still have power and basicaly play GOP bullshit games because they are pissed that they lost and the second the first order shows up, they jump ship to the nazis.
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Jun 15, 2023 13:10
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i will say this. the weird political faction poo poo brought up in the new canon claudia grey book works way way better. like the fact that alot of ex imperials still have power and basicaly play GOP bullshit games because they are pissed that they lost and the second the first order shows up, they jump ship to the nazis. See, I disagree, not because I thin Grey is a bad author or even that Bloodline is a bad book, but I think that was the least interesting way to explore politics in another galaxy. What if the New Republic had two factions, one of which were ineffectual, well-meaning but out of touch liberals, and the other racist authoritarians who only participate in democracy in bad faith and try to overthrow the system when they lose... wow, wonder how they came up with something so imaginative? It's also funny because that stuff came right from the "radically innovative" Rian Johnson as part of his backstory to TLJ, which was mentioned at the time and had a lot of people wondering what parts from Bloodline would show up in the movie... turns out nothing! Bloodline itself is kind of interesting because it's a Frankenstein monster of different ideas. From what I remember core aspects of the novel came from Michael Arndt's unused TFA backstory (the details of how the knowledge of Leia's parentage is revealed and the fallout), Johnson's TLJ backstory (the aforementioned New Republic politics), and an idea from a proposed animated Leia movie (the bombing plot), which all got stitched together. It's to Grey's credit that Bloodline works so well.
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Jun 15, 2023 16:13
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Star Wars is always about the USA at time of writing. Just roll with it.
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Jun 15, 2023 16:21
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Yeah, Nixon, Reagan, Newt Gingrich, Bush II, and the Vietnam War were all referenced or served as inspiration in various ways by Lucas. Contemporary political commentary is nothing new for Star Wars. Speaking of politics, X-wing, and Borsk, I always thought Stackpole and Zahn both got a little iffy with always having civilian governments as useless and in the way while the military is the real men and women who can do what needs to be done. Like I don't think their personal politics are anywhere close to right wing (Stackpole at least is liberal), but their Star Wars work gets a little too comfortable at times cheering on the military throwing off civilian oversight to Get poo poo Done.
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Jun 15, 2023 16:38
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i think if you assume that a lot of the core was composed of imperial sympathizers in the old EU, which seems reasonable, then the main difference politically between the timelines is that the rebel alliance doesn't dissolve into a liberal political party but instead takes on a french revolution national guard kind of role in the new republic. the old EU new republic is still a revolutionary state and for all that it has a democratic branch of government, there is also a strong center of power in the military. this seems more realistic to me than nu canon's approach of "they literally just started the republic back up again unchanged" but yeah they're still a little too close to the typical mil sci-fi Hard Men Making Hard Choices bullshit sometimes
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Jun 15, 2023 16:57
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I do think that nobody had quite the idea exactly how ANY republic works in the Star Wars universe. In theory, they're all unified and operate in the same way that the USA does with a head of state and a representative body with a singular cohesive military. But instead it's presented as if the Republic holds a giant gun, and can make proclamations and handle economic policy, but each independent state also maintains their own power base and leadership, and can act independently of the main body. To stretch the metaphor, it's America, but each state has it's own standing Military, and Arizona can declare war on both New Mexico and Old Mexico because Joe Arpaio wanted to.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:14
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The Republic really comes across as more of a space EU or UN rather than a single unitary government yeah. Leave each system to its own devices as long as they aren't too obvious with their human rights violations, just there to resolve intersystem disputes and regulate interstellar trade
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Jun 15, 2023 21:18
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Arquinsiel posted:Once you accept how stupid the world we live in is then accepting how stupid the worlds we create are is much easier. Wisdom.
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Jun 15, 2023 21:25
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Jazerus posted:i think if you assume that a lot of the core was composed of imperial sympathizers in the old EU, which seems reasonable, then the main difference politically between the timelines is that the rebel alliance doesn't dissolve into a liberal political party but instead takes on a french revolution national guard kind of role in the new republic. the old EU new republic is still a revolutionary state and for all that it has a democratic branch of government, there is also a strong center of power in the military. this seems more realistic to me than nu canon's approach of "they literally just started the republic back up again unchanged" but yeah they're still a little too close to the typical mil sci-fi Hard Men Making Hard Choices bullshit sometimes The difference makes sense since the big change between the new and old canon post-RoTJ is how long the war continues. Only a year after Endor, the Empire's military strength is crushed after its defeat at Jekku, and its leadership formally surrenders in the new canon. The New Republic can disarm and integrate all these once loyal Imperial worlds. In the old canon, the Empire never surrenders. The war goes on for another two decades. Even as Imperial military strength wanes from defeats and warlordism. It has periods of resurgence under the reborn Emperor, Thrawn, Daala that threaten the New Republic. So the military remains a powerful force politically.
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Jun 16, 2023 01:43
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OhFunny posted:In the old canon, the Empire never surrenders. The war goes on for another two decades. Even as Imperial military strength wanes from defeats and warlordism. It has periods of resurgence under the reborn Emperor, Thrawn, Daala that threaten the New Republic. So the military remains a powerful force politically. I seem to recall that, especially if you count that everybody claims the Outer Rim even if nobody actually cared about controlling it, at least around Thrawn's time the New Republic also wasn't super big because the Empire still controlled the Deep Core and whatever other territory.
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Jun 16, 2023 01:55
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Dawgstar posted:I seem to recall that, especially if you count that everybody claims the Outer Rim even if nobody actually cared about controlling it, at least around Thrawn's time the New Republic also wasn't super big because the Empire still controlled the Deep Core and whatever other territory. yeah the new republic is basically still facing a peer opponent until zsinj goes down a few years after thrawn. until they grabbed kuat there was always somebody able to mount up a credible threat on the back of its shipyards
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Jun 16, 2023 02:14
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Jazerus posted:yeah the new republic is basically still facing a peer opponent until zsinj goes down a few years after thrawn. until they grabbed kuat there was always somebody able to mount up a credible threat on the back of its shipyards Didn't Zsinj go down before Thrawn came back?
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Jun 16, 2023 02:15
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bunnyofdoom posted:Didn't Zsinj go down before Thrawn came back? Yes, Zsinj goes down about a year after Coruscant is taken, which is about two years before Thrawn’s campaigns (Which IIRC only last like 6~ months from his return until his death).
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Jun 16, 2023 02:20
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bunnyofdoom posted:Didn't Zsinj go down before Thrawn came back? oh yeah, not too long before. whoops. i guess that's how things end up in position for thrawn to need to do a last gasp offensive with everything the empire has left. still i would say zsinj was the tipping point. thrawn's whole strategy kind of revolves around preying on the new republic's overextension while it's trying to absorb territory in the wake of zsinj's defeat. he is focused on restoring self-sufficiency and force parity by seizing and destroying shipyards. so the new republic is fairly large by the time of thrawn taking over, on paper, but is still having trouble consolidating. Jazerus fucked around with this message at 04:31 on Jun 16, 2023 |
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Jun 16, 2023 02:24
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I’d have to go back and check, but there are some references scattered throughout the books (Particularly Zahn and Stackpole) about the size of the New Republic at various points. Going off memory, I think it’s stated that Endor prompts a whole bunch of systems to join the New Republic, but that it only represents likes 25% the size of the old Republic or Empire, and at the same time you get a bunch of systems go semi-autonomous or under warlords or whatever was going in with the Yevetha and assorted others and what have you, so the Empire is also weakening even if they aren’t jumping to the New Republic. The campaigns after Endor brings more to the New Republic, and I think the capture of Coruscant and its aftermath is another big swing that finally makes the New Republic larger than the Empire. The beginning of Heir to the Empire says the Empire is down to like 25% of its peak size, but it becomes clear that not everything else was definitively part of the New Republic.
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Jun 16, 2023 02:34
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We're the final Ackbar v Pellaeon campaigns before Spectre of the Past ever detailed?
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Jun 16, 2023 02:42
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Arbite posted:We're the final Ackbar v Pellaeon campaigns before Spectre of the Past ever detailed? Not to a great extent but Easential Guide to Warfare does have a bit about them.
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Jun 16, 2023 02:43
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Arbite posted:We're the final Ackbar v Pellaeon campaigns before Spectre of the Past ever detailed? I think only in essential guides. Which included the only so far known SSD on SSD battle where Pellaeon roughed up Wedge on the Lusankya
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Jun 16, 2023 02:43
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