|
OhFunny posted:The difference makes sense since the big change between the new and old canon post-RoTJ is how long the war continues. whats interesting is reading the late old canon refference poo poo(last chronology and guide to warfair). they basicaly make alot of remaining civil war happen int fits and starts, the empire is mostly murdering each other or striking out impotently and then every other year or so some warlord would gather a fleet or some uncovered weapon and go on a tear before getting killed. most of the war basicaly ends after thrawn. Weekend at sheevs lasts maybe a couple months/year. the rest of the stuff is various crisis like that Kueller rear end in a top hat or the Space Imperial japan barrakka people. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Jun 19, 2023 |
#
?
Jun 19, 2023 21:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 08:42 |
|
|
Dapper_Swindler posted:whats interesting is reading the late old canon refference poo poo(last chronology and guide to warfair). they basicaly make alot of remaining civil war happen int fits and starts, the empire is mostly murdering each other or striking out impotently and then every other year or so some warlord would gather a fleet or some uncovered weapon and go on a tear before getting killed. most of the war basicaly ends after thrawn. Weekend at sheevs lasts maybe a couple months/year. the rest of the stuff is various crisis like that Kueller rear end in a top hat or the Space Imperial japan barrakka people. When you elect space Hitler's daughter space president all the time poo poo is going to get done.  That is if she isn't the cause of the crisis because her children or husband are getting kidnapped. Or her space Pope brother became space Hitler again. Or she willingly flew into extream danger in >60 year old space truck. I am going to vote for Fey'lya.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2023 22:48
|
|
|
I don't want some insider politician, we need a real outsider to shake up the system. Admiral Daala will Make the Galactic Alliance Great Again.Dapper_Swindler posted:whats interesting is reading the late old canon refference poo poo(last chronology and guide to warfair). they basicaly make alot of remaining civil war happen int fits and starts, the empire is mostly murdering each other or striking out impotently and then every other year or so some warlord would gather a fleet or some uncovered weapon and go on a tear before getting killed. most of the war basicaly ends after thrawn. Weekend at sheevs lasts maybe a couple months/year. the rest of the stuff is various crisis like that Kueller rear end in a top hat or the Space Imperial japan barrakka people. One of those random minor characters that's weirdly important in the canon is Xandel Carivus from Crimson Empire 2. He's kind of a nobody, the last of a loose coalition of Imperials trying to hold things together after Palpatine's final death who murders all his rivals, but he's also the last person to take the title of Emperor (at least until the Fel Empire in Legacy 100 years later). It's largely a meaningless title even by that point, and once he's killed off no one bothers to take it up again. It's probably the biggest indicator of the true death of the Empire, when nobody even wants to claim its leadership anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 19, 2023 23:03
|
|
|
Lord Hydronium posted:I don't want some insider politician, we need a real outsider to shake up the system. Admiral Daala will Make the Galactic Alliance Great Again. i genuinly enjoy all the stupid knot tying all the legends universe did in its final years. I genuinly love Durga the hutts stupid rear end scheme. I like the idea that he basicaly just gets lucky and makes the deals with the right devils(which he does in solo books) and they die before they can collect, so he basicaly ends with a decent chunk of black sun and probably some various part of Hutt empires. so it all goes to his head and he decides to make his own super weapon. so he finds the deat star designer who has gone full happy time harry and some conman who pretends to be an imp officer and builds it out of lovely parts with a lovely hive mind work crew, and then he rolls a 20 and kills the strike team that showed up. then he dies like an incompetent gently caress taking hundreds of other hutts with him. then happy time bevile gets his wish.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 01:53
|
|
|
Darksaber felt like somebody told Kevin J Anderson "Look dude, we need to put a stop to this random Imperial of the Week who can somehow challenge the New Republic." and he gave a GIANT STUPID SMILE so he could have his personal favorite seize control (Ms. Slept My Way to the Top).
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 02:37
|
|
|
Calax posted:Darksaber felt like somebody told Kevin J Anderson "Look dude, we need to put a stop to this random Imperial of the Week who can somehow challenge the New Republic." and he gave a GIANT STUPID SMILE so he could have his personal favorite seize control (Ms. Slept My Way to the Top). A reminder that Tarkin was such an exceptional lover Daala never bothered with sex again. "After him, fantasizing had been enough." Not the first bit of horny from KJA that got tamped down later, like how it was retconned Luke talking to Lando and Mara and Mara was wearing one of Lando's shirts was just some secret mission where they were working together. Admittedly it is a bit of a reach for Mara to go to Luke from Lando. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 12:35
|
|
|
People Daala has officially slept with: Tarkin Guy who made Hutt porn Boba Fett
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 14:51
|
|
|
She seemed to be in a relationship with a Bothan in FOTJ.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 14:54
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:People Daala has officially slept with: Liegeus Vorn? He also ghost-wrote Gamorrean poetry for bachelors to use in courting
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 14:57
|
|
|
Chairman Capone posted:People Daala has officially slept with: Was that Traviss' doing?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 20:50
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Was that Traviss' doing? Search your feelings.... Am I forgetting something, or did Traviss also do something weird with Pellaeon's love life in Legacy of the Force?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 21:15
|
|
|
I mean I think she or another author implied he had a bastard kid but like that also happened in NJO. Basically Pelleon can get it
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2023 22:12
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:A reminder that Tarkin was such an exceptional lover Daala never bothered with sex again. "After him, fantasizing had been enough." I do like that the new canon actually heavily implies Tarkin is homosexual (or at least bi) in one of the "Certain Point of View" stories; I can definitely buy him being turned on by all those Strong Men in military uniforms going by the rest of his behavior.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 00:18
|
|
|
MadDogMike posted:I do like that the new canon actually heavily implies Tarkin is homosexual (or at least bi) in one of the "Certain Point of View" stories; I can definitely buy him being turned on by all those Strong Men in military uniforms going by the rest of his behavior. "Yes? Well? What did he say? Is he coming?" "I say, sir, thank ya kindly for sendin' my little MSE-6 droid back to me all fixed up so good! Ya got a gift, if that's not too forward of me, sir. TK-421 out!" "...My, but he's laying it on a bit thick... Ah well. The games we play."
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 00:40
|
|
|
MadDogMike posted:I do like that the new canon actually heavily implies Tarkin is homosexual (or at least bi) in one of the "Certain Point of View" stories; I can definitely buy him being turned on by all those Strong Men in military uniforms going by the rest of his behavior. Frederick II except Tarkin is over 6 feet tall instead of a manlet enamoured with all the big burly grenadiers.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 01:06
|
|
|
Not sure what I think of making Tarkin, the man on the receiving end of the most homoerotic attack run in Star Wars, their lead gay
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 01:12
|
|
|
Look until someone makes Lok Durd: A Star Wars Story then Tarkin is the most we'll get.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 01:53
|
|
|
You would prefer another target, a military target? Then name the cishet!
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 03:17
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:Not the first bit of horny from KJA that got tamped down later, like how it was retconned Luke talking to Lando and Mara and Mara was wearing one of Lando's shirts was just some secret mission where they were working together. Admittedly it is a bit of a reach for Mara to go to Luke from Lando. Wasn’t that from Barbara Hambly’s Children of the Jedi? I don’t have it on hand to check at the moment, and I know KJA made the initial push for Mara and Lando together somewhere late in the Jedi Academy trilogy when they start working together (But nothing romantic happens at all), but I thought the more implicit attempt to show them being together was when Leia and Han talk to them on the HoloNet at one point in Children of the Jedi. fartknocker fucked around with this message at 11:57 on Jun 21, 2023 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 11:54
|
|
|
Wasn't it the Corellian Trilogy that made Mara and Lando a couple? According to Zahn, the decision to make Luke and Mara get together was made shortly after the Thrawn Trilogy came out but I think there was some testing of the waters by other authors. Or Bantam/Lucasfilm just never told them of the plans, maybe.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 12:30
|
|
|
fartknocker posted:Wasn’t that from Barbara Hambly’s Children of the Jedi? I don’t have it on hand to check at the moment, and I know KJA made the initial push for Mara and Lando together somewhere late in the Jedi Academy trilogy when they start working together (But nothing romantic happens at all), but I thought the more implicit attempt to show them being together was when Leia and Han talk to them on the HoloNet at one point in Children of the Jedi. You're quite right! I even found the quote: Children of the Jedi posted:“What? Who is it?”
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 15:27
|
|
|
everyone in star wars understands that monogamy makes exceptions for lando particularly if he is waxed and combed
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 15:34
|
|
|
NuCanon has Lando and Holdo as a short thing while they're off in No Space after a Nihil Path engine activates I'm amazed they haven't made Lando bi/pan (Wonder if there's a story where Billy Dee was asked about it and he said no)
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 16:04
|
|
|
Lando’s true love is the taste of BlasTech 45 malt liquor. Gets ‘em every time. Also capes.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 16:26
|
|
|
Lando is canonically pan, but the closest they've ever come to actually depicting it is claiming his attraction to L3 counts as not-straight. Empty representation for sure
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2023 17:48
|
|
|
Vinylshadow posted:I'm amazed they haven't made Lando bi/pan (Wonder if there's a story where Billy Dee was asked about it and he said no) Childish Gambino posted:Glover later confirmed that's how he approached the role during an interview on Sirius XM's EW Radio show, stating, "It just didn't seem that weird to me because I feel like if you're in space it's kind of like, the door is open!" Glover said. "It's like, no only guys or girls. No, it's anything. This thing is literally a blob. Are you a man or a woman? Like, who cares? Have good time out here." That's nice anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 00:30
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:You're quite right! I even found the quote: Probably because Ms Hambly was doing her best to ensure that Calistaa was Luke's "One True Love" in her books.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 02:54
|
|
|
every time i forget that luke wanted to gently caress his computer until somebody mentions callista again
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 03:32
|
|
|
Callista’s final fate is pretty rough. Couldn’t just leave her alone, gotta feed her to Abeloth. I tried to reread Children of the Jedi recently because I felt like revisiting one of the crappier books. But I was really having trouble with the writing style.
|
|
#
?
Jun 22, 2023 07:02
|
|
|
Casimir Radon posted:Callista’s final fate is pretty rough. Couldn’t just leave her alone, gotta feed her to Abeloth. Yeah, I find it hard to describe why I hate that book so much. But it just feels...awful. Painful. Hard to read. Like, I can't say more than that, because I haven't read it in forever, but it was always my #1 personal least favorite book in the old EU.
|
|
#
?
Jun 23, 2023 21:59
|
|
|
thrawn527 posted:Yeah, I find it hard to describe why I hate that book so much. But it just feels...awful. Painful. Hard to read. I reread it in late 2020 and here's basically what I noted to myself at the time: Hambly's writing early on isn't bad per se, but it felt generally like generic sci-fi and not Star Wars. I remember the early chapters (I think when they're on Ithor?) being very descriptive of stuff going on, but something about it always felt off. On a personal level, she tended to go with longer chapters than a lot of other EU authors did, which I know made the pacing feel different at times, so I don't think it flows like most other EU books. So much of it felt like it was an existing story that someone decided to cram into the Star Wars EU, so the characters just didn't feel quite right. Aside from the generalities of Luke, Han, and Leia, it felt very isolated from the old EU specifically and even Star Wars in general. You can say a lot of the standalone books or trilogies from that 90s era of the EU are isolated from everything else to some extent, but Children of the Jedi took this to another level to me. One thing that really annoyed me was the way the new characters and planets and everything were introduced as if the reader should already know who they were and be somewhat familiar with them, particularly Cray and Nichos. I was doing my EU reread in chronological order, and found myself going to Wookiepedia to confirm that yes, this was the very first work where those characters were introduced, I didn't miss some previous book or comic or something, we just don't get their full story for a while in it. By the way, every single view point character at least once has to comment on how beautiful and attractive Cray is at least once, if not several times, which gets odd when it's coming from Han and Leia's perspectives and that's long before we get to Callista inhabiting her body at the end. "Painful" and "hard to read" are I think apt as it's a slow book that drags a lot - Quite literally, as Luke spends half of it limping around. I remember some of the action sections not being well done or clear on first read through, and the whole thing feels like some potentially interesting concepts that are poorly executed (Something that applies to more than a few EU works). Just for comparison with the other two Callista books, Darksaber is mostly mediocre as hell, but at least KJA's writing flows along and it has a handful of moments, so it isn't a complete slog. Planet of Twilight is a lot like Children of the Jedi, never quite feeling like Star Wars and being very slow to start before having a finish that is meh at best. One thing I can at least say about Children of the Jedi (And the Callista trilogy in general) is it wasn't so awful from the start that I abandoned it. Stuff like The Crystal Star, The New Rebellion, and Ambush at Corellia all had such uninspired beginnings that I think the furthest I got in any of those was maybe 60 pages in, and in some cases I bailed after 20-30. I'd probably argue that the Black Fleet Crisis trilogy is worse overall, but that's largely because those books are mostly telling three simultaneous but almost completely unrelated stories and two of them are boring as poo poo and drag on way too long (Luke and Lando's separate adventures, Leia and Han dealing with the titular Black Fleet was actually kinda interesting to me), but it at least had some interesting points. All of this is just my long winded way of saying I don't know if I'd say Children of the Jedi is the worst book in the EU I actually read, but it's definitely on the lowest tier of them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 24, 2023 15:31
|
|
|
So I'm reading the X-wing series for the first time and I just got to Wraith Squadron and holy poo poo the jump in quality from Stackpole to Allston is unreal. The characters actually have personality! The dialogue sounds like the writer has actually heard humans speaking to each other before! Not a single male character has met a female character and then spent the next couple of paragraphs thinking about how hot she is and whether or not he would gently caress her! Is there a reason the series didn't just start with Allston to begin with?
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 12:49
|
|
|
Radio! posted:Is there a reason the series didn't just start with Allston to begin with? Stackpole had already been involved with Star Wars for several years. He’d done a few short stories and had been involved with the Rogue Squadron comics, so when they wanted to start doing novels, he was a logical choice. IIRC, Allston hadn’t done anything Star Wars previously, and they brought him in a few years later when Stackpole’s workload made it difficult for him to do more X-wing novels at that time. Allston was a fan of Stackpole and Zahn’s stuff and made a big effort to get the feeling right, playing games and reading everything he could (Books, comics, technical manuals, the WEG stuff, etc) before Wraith Squadron, along with simply having a great sense of how to develop characters and organically work in humor into the stories.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 13:04
|
|
|
I do feel like a lot of Stackpole's rep comes from being mediocre, which as somebody who made their bones in RPG-related fiction made him unfortunately a standout. I've never read his Battletech stuff but am told that the quality viewed with a critical eye never reaches beyond the heights of "all right I guess, considering" but his Shadowrun stuff - which admittedly was only some short stories about his pet characters - never impressed me much and Shadowrun fiction sets a pretty low bar.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 13:09
|
|
|
To me, Stackpole is fine. Pretty much everything he does in Star Wars is B level work, with some moments here and there that are B+, but they're always readable to me and I don't think any of them get truly bad. His X-wing books are enjoyable enough, they just pale in comparison to those by Allston. I, Jedi is interesting enough with it points out some of the sillier stuff in the Jedi Academy Trilogy and also had some cool stuff on how the Force works differently for different people, and his pair of early NJO books are solid. He was a main writer on the old X-wing comics and those are mostly pretty good, and while I haven't read them in a while, his assorted short stories were okay if nothing particularly memorable to me. I think the biggest criticism of him is mostly related to Corran Horn, who I know a lot of people don't care for and there are some valid arguments behind that, but IMO it's a bit overblown at times and he's far from the worst character in the old EU. Also, he hosed an otter and that's just funny.
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 13:48
|
|
|
Yeah, I didn't actively dislike any of the Stackpole books (Corran does suck though), but it was a bit of a surprise to go from "I will finish this book because I want to finish the series" to "I will finish this book because I am actually invested and enjoying it".
|
|
#
?
Jun 25, 2023 13:54
|
|
|
I'm in a bit of a podcast lull now so I've been looking to find some EU-centric ones. I've come across Tapcaf Transmissions and TK331 - has anyone here listened to either of those, out of curiosity?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 01:45
|
|
|
Radio! posted:Not a single male character has met a female character and then spent the next couple of paragraphs thinking about how hot she is and whether or not he would gently caress her! Well to be fair Kell Tainer tries it fairly early on with Tyria in ‘Wraith Squadron’ and she straight up shuts him down, it’s great.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 05:11
|
|
|
Probably the single biggest "Wasted Potential" I can think of in the EU was Truce at Bakura. If only for it's setting being within DAYS of Endor. It could have been something like the SG1 episode where they have to prove that Apophis had died to a bunch of "deep cover" agents. Although looking back on it (haven't read it since the mid 90's), it comes off as... EXTREMELY christian. Vader pops up to his daughter, only to BEG forgiveness so he can go to a version of Heaven. The Ssr-uuk(?) literally crucify humans and turn them into machine spirits, and all the "normal" people automatically want to join the Rebellion except the ABSURDLY evil for the lulz imperial governor. Also the local senator who wants to bang Luke doesn't like Jedi for 'religious' reasons...
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 05:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 08:42 |
|
|
Looks like Tyers is religious. I didn’t really pick up on that myself, probably due to being younger when I read it, and there being a lot of other poo poo wrong with that book to focus on. What’s funny is Luke’s love interest gets killed off two real world years later, 1993 to 1995, in Showdown at Centerpoint. Though it’s 14 years of in universe time, 4ABY to 18ABY. “Hmmm, this character didn’t really work out. Bakura isn’t a place we ever really need to see again but let’s whack her just to be sure.”
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2023 05:45
|
|