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sebmojo posted:The idea of putting ten billion people into ships is completely absurd but idk if that's an author not understanding numbers thing or John being John. I think that's just John being John with his messianic complex and retroactive justification of omnicide that's had 10,000 years to fester.
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Jul 12, 2023 23:34
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sebmojo posted:The idea of putting ten billion people into ships is completely absurd but idk if that's an author not understanding numbers thing or John being John. It's John being John -- he spend the entire time telling everybody that the FTL project is clearly an impractical fake, there's no way it can possibly work at a scale large enough to save everybody and never connects the dots that the cryogenic project was also clearly an impractical fake and can't work at a scale large enough to save everybody.
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Jul 13, 2023 00:33
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That tracks, yeah. He's such an amazing character, all sort of kind and frazzled and humble but also Galactically Evil, but also also regular evil in how he uses the first qualities to pretend to be be good
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Jul 13, 2023 00:41
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Also he is definitely not sorry Only sorry he was only able to stop one of the escaping ships
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Jul 13, 2023 00:41
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pseudorandom name posted:It's John being John -- he spend the entire time telling everybody that the FTL project is clearly an impractical fake, there's no way it can possibly work at a scale large enough to save everybody and never connects the dots that the cryogenic project was also clearly an impractical fake and can't work at a scale large enough to save everybody. Sure, but the cryogenic project probably would have saved more people if they'd gotten it to work. Nothing short of, well, John actually being God and saving Earth was going to save everybody. Instead the billionaires apparently hijacked and redirected the resources from the cryogenic project toward building FTL ships to save themselves, their most loyal servants and a bunch of their stuff while leaving the rest of humanity to choke on sewage air I can get John's mindset. I get why even after 10,000 years he still loving hates them. It's a completely human thing. Which is why humans should never play (or be) God.
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Jul 13, 2023 00:44
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Everyone posted:Sure, but the cryogenic project probably would have saved more people if they'd gotten it to work. Nothing short of, well, John actually being God and saving Earth was going to save everybody. No, the billionaires abandoned the cryogenics project because FTL actually worked so they didn't need it. They were never going to build any additional ships for the hoi polloi.
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Jul 13, 2023 00:48
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Everyone posted:Sure, but the cryogenic project probably would have saved more people if they'd gotten it to work. Nothing short of, well, John actually being God and saving Earth was going to save everybody. Do you know who else saved himself, his most loyal servants and a bunch of his stuff while killing the rest of humanity?
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Jul 13, 2023 00:50
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Robo Reagan posted:issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the genocidal maniac John... John is “you know I am sensitive to the holocaust BUT”
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Jul 13, 2023 00:52
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Luigi Thirty posted:John is “you know I am sensitive to the holocaust BUT” ... if it wasn't for John, the only humans in the universe would be the descendants of the billionaires, but because of John there are two clades of humanity.
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Jul 13, 2023 00:54
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Everyone posted:Sure, but the cryogenic project probably would have saved more people if they'd gotten it to work. . Not very many. Nona is pretty clear that John’s powers were pretty localized and required personal attention, except when he juiced them with a big shot of thanergy by loving murdering a ton of living things. The nun even spells it out for him; he can’t possibly get anywhere by curing cancer one human at a time, but he never applies that logic to his cryo-plan. Even if he hadn’t gone full genocide, his final plan was probably something almost as horrific like killing half the planet to save the other half.
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Jul 13, 2023 01:22
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pseudorandom name posted:... if it wasn't for John, the only humans in the universe would be the descendants of the billionaires, but because of John there are two clades of humanity. It kind of seems like the descendants of the billionaires would be doing just fine without John, because the billionaires have all been dead for ten thousand years.
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Jul 13, 2023 01:26
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Rand Brittain posted:It kind of seems like the descendants of the billionaires would be doing just fine without John, because the billionaires have all been dead for ten thousand years. life on return to battle of the planet of the billionaires in Nona doesn't really seem like roses and sunshine either tbh
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Jul 13, 2023 02:08
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dang there were so many new posts in the thread I thought there was a cover reveal or something. On balance I don't think John handled things any better or worse than the average human would—which is to say, most of us handle extraordinary things in a regretable way, if only due to sheer shock or inexperience. But that sort of presumes he's a reliable narrator, and there are little details in Nona that make me think he's fudged his version of the story a lot. On the other hand, "John is actually more horrible than previously thought" wouldn't be much of a revelation—my pet theory is that there is some fundamental aspect of the universe he's lying about. Whether it's the amount of time passed, the nature of the river, or something else. A game changer.
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Jul 13, 2023 02:10
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there's also the possibility that he's painting himself as a bigger monster than he is out of survivors guilt. I don't think it's particularly likely but it's possible
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Jul 13, 2023 02:12
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Saraiguma posted:life on return to battle of the planet of the billionaires in Nona doesn't really seem like roses and sunshine either tbh John being real angry that it's been ten thousand years and a multitude of other planets and IT'S THE SAME loving SOCIETY, THE BILLIONAIRES AND THEIR DESCENDENTS JUST SOMEHOW REBUILT THE OLD SOCIETY THAT KILLED EARTH from what we've seen of things feels... not fair, as such, but comprehensible. Because that's at least a lot of what it looks like happened, things don't feel like they changed enough. So that wound was never going to heal for him even if it could.
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Jul 13, 2023 02:16
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FuturePastNow posted:Not to defend the literal genocide of humanity, or many horrible things that happened afterward, but it's also a question of "what if you gave a normal human the power of God, then betrayed them and pushed them past the breaking point?" and I think the result isn't surprising at all. Starting to sound like that Japanese cartoon with the robots
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Jul 13, 2023 02:19
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Goffer posted:Starting to sound like that Japanese cartoon with the robots get in the lyctor, shinji
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Jul 13, 2023 02:56
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Sitting Here posted:dang there were so many new posts in the thread I thought there was a cover reveal or something.
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Jul 13, 2023 03:19
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Kesper North posted:get in the lyctor, shinji
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Jul 13, 2023 03:21
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Kesper North posted:get in the lyctor, shinji Deus apate, major
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Jul 13, 2023 03:21
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thunderdome winner
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sebmojo posted:Do you know who else saved himself, his most loyal servants and a bunch of his stuff while killing the rest of humanity? To be semi-fair John saved himself and maybe some of his stuff, but he killed everybody else. He just brought some of them back to life, too.
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Jul 13, 2023 03:21
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Kesper North posted:get in the lyctor, shinji Ironically, this is the only time "I'll get in your mum" is an appropriate response.
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Jul 13, 2023 03:44
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Saraiguma posted:life on return to battle of the planet of the billionaires in Nona doesn't really seem like roses and sunshine either tbh That planet's currently occupied by the Cohort and is suffering from overcrowding and scarcity due to a refugee crisis caused by the imperialists murdering liveable planets with death magic, not fair to pin that on the people. We haven't really seen how their society might work when they're not embroiled in a forever war with a narcissistic Twitch streamer.
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Jul 13, 2023 03:44
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cptn_dr posted:Ironically, this is the only time "I'll get in your mum" is an appropriate response. What's your mum's name
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Jul 13, 2023 03:45
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Cows watch sunsets, you know?
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Jul 13, 2023 05:41
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Everyone posted:Sure, but the cryogenic project probably would have saved more people if they'd gotten it to work. Even if you have physics defying freeze/thaw, getting even a couple thousand people's worth of mass to a different star along with something to thaw them is a harder problem than building enough sealed habitats for all of humanity nearby. Space is big. Physics defying FTL is a much better pick if you want to maximize people transported, transport is just also a poor solution
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Jul 13, 2023 06:02
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Saraiguma posted:life on return to battle of the planet of the billionaires in Nona doesn't really seem like roses and sunshine either tbh
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Jul 13, 2023 06:52
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Goffer posted:Starting to sound like that Japanese cartoon with the robots You're going to need to be a touch more specific. I just reread the confession scene between Harrow and John. It's clear that John cares about Harrow and really does want to help her, but there's this weird undercurrent of admiration for what her parents did with a further undercurrent of "I'm gonna have to take a crack at that myself to get some really souped-up Lyctors."
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Jul 13, 2023 08:51
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Evangelion, I'm guessing? And yeah good catch.
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Jul 13, 2023 11:54
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Jul 13, 2023 12:43
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Reclaimer posted:That planet's currently occupied by the Cohort and is suffering from overcrowding and scarcity due to a refugee crisis caused by the imperialists murdering liveable planets with death magic, not fair to pin that on the people. We haven't really seen how their society might work when they're not embroiled in a forever war with a narcissistic Twitch streamer. twitch streamer? please, john is clearly a cspam poster
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Jul 13, 2023 12:49
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Harrow question: So I've been listening to the book in irregular chunks so I'm sure I missed something but was it seeing Gideon's eyes in Harrow's face that made Augustine and Mercy realize Perfect Lyctorhood was a Thing or something else? The follow up question is why didn't Jon want the Lyctors to be perfected but I'm guessing he was afraid of making more Alectors, maybe?
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Jul 13, 2023 14:17
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Whether it's perfect or just "I didn't have to kill my best friend" which amounts to the same thing, yes that's pretty much it.
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Jul 13, 2023 14:19
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Mercy and Cristabel were married, and then Cristabel formed a suicide pact with Augustine's brother because nobody wanted to eat their best friend and use their soul as fuel for the next myriad. Finding out they didn't have to die would make someone pretty mad. Also as for which of the A's Augustine is I feel like after listening to Nona again that Alfred was the scientist and Augustine was the finance bro who came in later. But that hardly matters since the people they were post-resurrection isn't the same as they were at the time.
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Jul 13, 2023 14:27
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M_Gargantua posted:Mercy and Cristabel were married, and then Cristabel formed a suicide pact with Augustine's brother because nobody wanted to eat their best friend and use their soul as fuel for the next myriad. Finding out they didn't have to die would make someone pretty mad. I didn't catch that at the time but remember it now. The 'under pressure' bit meaning Augustine and Mercy had to hurry up and kill their brother/wife before they could off each other could indeed leave you feeling pretty raw for a few millennia.
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Jul 13, 2023 14:44
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Kesper North posted:get in the lyctor, shinji Holy poo poo.
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Jul 13, 2023 15:40
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Epilogue plus As Yet Unsent: Wow.
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Jul 13, 2023 17:54
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Dawgstar posted:Epilogue plus As Yet Unsent: Wow. They're all just such disaster lesbians.
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Jul 13, 2023 17:56
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I loving forgot this line from Harrow that color which Ianthe called black roses, because she was overfamiliar and, frankly, a pervert
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Jul 13, 2023 19:55
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silvergoose posted:They're all just such disaster lesbians. Honestly disaster pansexuals in a lot of cases.
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Jul 13, 2023 23:52
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