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I thought Brandon himself was like yep I couldn’t figure out mat in tgs, sorry folks. I thought he did as good a job as anyone could but those parts are deep in the uncanny valley
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Jul 15, 2023 20:17
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The one scene that always sticks out to me is the one where Mat is planning to scout out the village where Verin is, and he's got these ~wacky~ backstories for all of his guys so they can go in undercover and it's like... the scene is funny. It's a good scene. That is not, however, how Mat acts.
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Jul 15, 2023 21:29
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I think that could easily be edited to fit better with the Mat we know. Leave most of it on the cutting room floor and just have him introduce the others with fake names and maybe a one line blurb that would put them in an uncomfortable role. I don't know why, but it just strikes me as a rough draft that needed more editing and not something Sanderson would write (although I do think humor is one of Sanderson's weaknesses, so maybe he did come up with it).
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Jul 15, 2023 21:57
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Mat and Talmanes doing their funny/straight-man routine was where it seemed the most obvious that it was someone else writing him. Mostly because for the first time I, personally, found myself laughing at him and finding him funny. Up to that point it had all been the book telling me Mat was funny, as though I was supposed to just take its word for it, when really what he was doing the whole time was swearing and whining about how unfair the world is for making him do things when all he wants to do is chase girls and gamble. Definitely a different kind of "funny" than what he had been up to that point. It sure felt like Sanderson had read some notes that said "he's the  funny one, you know, wink wink, like how the Comedian in Watchmen is 'funny'" that he skimmed and didn't really get so he shrugged and wrote him as a comic relief character. Lol if that Talmanes stuff was actually Jordan though
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Jul 15, 2023 21:59
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MajorBonnet posted:I think that could easily be edited to fit better with the Mat we know. Leave most of it on the cutting room floor and just have him introduce the others with fake names and maybe a one line blurb that would put them in an uncomfortable role. Which mat we know? He's been like 4 different people by that point.
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Jul 15, 2023 22:08
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thekeeshman posted:I read up to book 9 back when I was in high school a couple of decades ago, and finally got around to finishing the entire series straight through including the Sanderson books. My main takeaways: Can't say I agree about any book dragging up to 4, 5 or 6. I'm up almost thru book 5 and I'd hesitate to delete anything here there, there's so many good moments or payoffs. Looking to forward to getting into the traditionally maligned winter books of 8, and 9 and 10 to see if my enjoyment still holds up. Been ages since I read them. Book 5 is a comfortable blanket at this point. It was the first book I read in the series and the only one I read for a lmcoupke years until I read of LoC like when I was 16. Alot of nostalgia there.
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Jul 15, 2023 22:14
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Devorum posted:Agree with a lot of this, but I wouldn't cut a word out The Shadow Rising. Easily my favorite book in the series.
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Jul 15, 2023 22:15
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I know a few people who really like the shadow rising but it's always been my least favourite of the RJ outside of the slog.
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Jul 15, 2023 22:19
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Dysgenesis posted:I know a few people who really like the shadow rising but it's always been my least favourite of the RJ outside of the slog. this opinion is violence
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Jul 15, 2023 22:22
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So.... anything from that convention yet? I can't seem to see replies to that earlier thread because Twitter is hosed
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Jul 15, 2023 22:47
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:So.... anything from that convention yet? I can't seem to see replies to that earlier thread because Twitter is hosed Here's the Twitter thread, there's not much to it. If they had anything big planned, it hasn't happened yet or it's not happening due to the strikes. Also Ali and Gus ate beans on toast for the first time   https://twitter.com/KritterXD/status/1680300190618484736
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Jul 15, 2023 23:06
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thekeeshman posted:I read up to book 9 back when I was in high school a couple of decades ago, and finally got around to finishing the entire series straight through including the Sanderson books. My main takeaways: This made me wonder: I know in this thread we talk about Elayne's interminable bath scene but how long is it, actually?
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Jul 16, 2023 05:24
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It’s not that long but at that point she’s in her literal plot armor smug stage, most of the stuff involving her around that time is just boring as all hell. The fact Caemlyn was turned into a parking lot made it all the more pointless to me.
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Jul 16, 2023 06:13
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buffalo all day posted:I thought Brandon himself was like yep I couldn’t figure out mat in tgs, sorry folks. I thought he did as good a job as anyone could but those parts are deep in the uncanny valley Yeah, the bad Mat is mostly TGS, and that was entirely Sanderson. He knows he hosed up with that one. I don't totally mind it but it's definitely a shift, because Mat is usually saying one thing, thinking another, and doing a third thing, which Sanderson said made him a very difficult character to write. Vs. Perrin who is fairly straightforward, although he may not always realize what he's doing (physically picking up somebody and moving them and thinking he's being reasonable, when that actually comes off as quite intimidating), who I think Sanderson did a very good job with. Sanderson also found him the easiest character to write. Any inconsistencies in the bits that Jordan wrote can be entirely chalked up to him not having enough time to work on the writing. He typically wouldn't show anything even Harriet until draft 12 or 13. A Knife of Dreams is one of the best books in the series, I know he would have stuck the landing.
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Jul 16, 2023 08:34
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Any inconsistencies in the bits that Jordan wrote can be entirely chalked up to him not having enough time to work on the writing. He typically wouldn't show anything even Harriet until draft 12 or 13. A Knife of Dreams is one of the best books in the series, I know he would have stuck the landing. I think that the "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were by Jordan" comments should really be "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were Jordan's rough drafts", because he didn't get to go through his lengthy editing process and Sanderson (understandably imo) didn't want to touch them.
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Jul 16, 2023 09:30
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One of my favourite Perrin moments is in The Dragon Reborn is when the Grey Men come into the pub in Illian and he rips a chair in half to use a weapon and does not understand why people are staring at him.
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Jul 16, 2023 09:32
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Cavelcade posted:One of my favourite Perrin moments is in The Dragon Reborn is when the Grey Men come into the pub in Illian and he rips a chair in half to use a weapon and does not understand why people are staring at him. Lol that owns, even if it's just held together with dowelling its still strong as hell I like him grabbing a massive wooden beam by himself and tossing it to the ground in So Habor, probably terrifying the people even more than the ghosts
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Jul 16, 2023 10:27
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Cavelcade posted:One of my favourite Perrin moments is in The Dragon Reborn is when the Grey Men come into the pub in Illian and he rips a chair in half to use a weapon and does not understand why people are staring at him. Absolutely. That, him picking up people and moving them, him feeling his hand being wet and looking down and realizing he crushed the metal ale tankard, etc are just great moments because he just has absolutely zero clue why people are staring at him in disbelief. "Oh oops I casually did that thing that normal humans can't do, why is everybody looking at me?" Khizan posted:I think that the "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were by Jordan" comments should really be "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were Jordan's rough drafts", because he didn't get to go through his lengthy editing process and Sanderson (understandably imo) didn't want to touch them. Agreed. That being said, the ToM prologue in the tower in Kandor goes HARD. Egwene (primarily Jordan-written) in TGS is incredible. The chapter A Fount of Power is very much 
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Jul 16, 2023 10:29
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:Agreed. That being said, the ToM prologue in the tower in Kandor goes HARD. Egwene (primarily Jordan-written) in TGS is incredible. The chapter A Fount of Power is very much The back half of TGS is so full of the best series moments that it seems insane. The Last That Could Be Done, Natrim's Barrow stuff, Egwene/Verin stuff followed by Fount of Power and follow-up, Rand meeting with Tam, Just Another Man/Veins of Gold. Its such a concentration of wow moments that I think is unrivaled in the series, even in the last book.
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Jul 16, 2023 14:19
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pik_d posted:Here's the Twitter thread, there's not much to it. If they had anything big planned, it hasn't happened yet or it's not happening due to the strikes. Also Ali and Gus ate beans on toast for the first time I completely forgot that Moiraine got distilled in the TV season finale.
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Jul 16, 2023 14:39
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Hughmoris posted:I completely forgot that Moiraine got distilled in the TV season finale.
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Jul 16, 2023 15:23
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RandomReader posted:Moiraine moonshine. Lol thanks I was working on something like this but couldn't think of anything
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Jul 16, 2023 15:27
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47 days until Moiraineshine
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Jul 16, 2023 15:43
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After some thought after just finishing Fires of heaven I think I'm gonna amend ny earlier statement, there are things that I could see worth deleting here. Just all the cat fight stuff between the female characters. It really leans into the whole male/female differences that mark the foundation of the books, but leaning on the humor of it all just emphasized how old and hokey these ideas are, instead of when it's used well its a sad realization on how different people are always going to be, based on their own preconceptions. And there's a lot of it and it just makes you wanna go back to the more straightforward and appealing Rand Power Hour sections.
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Jul 16, 2023 16:22
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FoH has the super girls at the circus, right? Yeah there's a lot of fat to be cut there
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Jul 16, 2023 16:49
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Khizan posted:I think that the "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were by Jordan" comments should really be "Actually, a lot of the worst parts of the last three books were Jordan's rough drafts", because he didn't get to go through his lengthy editing process and Sanderson (understandably imo) didn't want to touch them. That doesn't really apply to the complaints of "Character X would never do that, Sanderson ruined it" .
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Jul 16, 2023 16:51
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CainsDescendant posted:FoH has the super girls at the circus, right? Yeah there's a lot of fat to be cut there To leave more room for the circus, right?
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Jul 16, 2023 16:52
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pik_d posted:To leave more room for the circus, right? Of course, we didn't even get any Valan Luca pov's, I'm sure the logistics of running the circus would be a fascinating couple of hundred pages
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Jul 16, 2023 17:32
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Shageletic posted:Can't say I agree about any book dragging up to 4, 5 or 6. I'm up almost thru book 5 and I'd hesitate to delete anything here there, there's so many good moments or payoffs. Looking to forward to getting into the traditionally maligned winter books of 8, and 9 and 10 to see if my enjoyment still holds up. Been ages since I read them. The statement that books 4-11 could be distilled into four books without loss is entirely accurate,. It just doesn't specify that those four books would be books 4-7 plus the Cleansing.
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Jul 16, 2023 18:38
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Maybe less about how much you could distill what's there, but more of a thought experiment about "what if you totally skipped books X thru Y, and picked back up right after, would you be at all lost or feel like you'd missed anything important?" Like once you'd established Egwene in Salidar, the Whitecloaks and Galad etc, what the Seanchan are doing, and Rand's current level of powerup points, you might be able to do some Traveling of your own
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Jul 16, 2023 18:57
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I was about to say the Bowl of the Winds, but that establishes both the Kin and the path forward for the Tower, as well as giving an on the ground view of the Seanchan returning, so.... maybe not.
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Jul 16, 2023 19:37
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CainsDescendant posted:FoH has the super girls at the circus, right? Yeah there's a lot of fat to be cut there I kind of like that part honestly, because that section is a large part of establishing Elayne's character and her relationship to Nynaeve, Birgitte and Thom, along with doing some work to humanize Nynaeve there through her relationship to Birgitte. Plus, I just enjoy "seeing" Elayne gain confidence in herself as a person rather than as a princess through working on something completely unrelated to her life prior to that point i.e. high wire. I do think there's some fat that could be cut there in the form of the other refugees they pick up, specifically the women they find who can channel and end up coming to Salidar with them. They serve as a source of tension during those specific chapters, but there's already tension anyway given they're being hunted through Ghaeldan, which is on the verge of civil unrest between the Prophet and the Whitecloaks, and it never really seemed like Nicola etc. had much pay off. They lead to Egwene using them as pawns to further her own goals to some degree, but it also seems like the kind of thing you could use other characters to fulfil anyway. Really though, the only storyline I think could use a major trimming is Perrin hunting the Shaido, because a lot of it feels like it's treading water and once that's done there's some cool stuff established about Perrin as a dreamwalker that really felt like it could have been the basis for some interesting chapters but is just rushed through in the final book without ever really giving it the focus it deserved, especially if there'd been more done with his relationship to Lanfear as another dreamwalker. tsob fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jul 16, 2023 |
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Jul 16, 2023 22:27
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tsob posted:specifically the women they find who can channel and end up coming to Salidar with them. They serve as a source of tension during those specific chapters, but there's already tension anyway given they're being hunted through Ghaeldan, which is on the verge of civil unrest between the Prophet and the Whitecloaks, and it never really seemed like Nicola etc. had much pay off.
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Jul 16, 2023 22:36
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tsob posted:I kind of like that part honestly, because that section is a large part of establishing Elayne's character and her relationship to Nynaeve, Birgitte and Thom, along with doing some work to humanize Nynaeve there through her relationship to Birgitte. It is subtle, but Nyneave does a lot of growing up over the course of that arc. She technically has authority over Elayne due to her higher rank in the Tower , but it is a much flimsier sort of authority than that of Wisdom, and has no authority at all over anyone else. That goes a long way toward letting her give up her provincialism later.
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Jul 16, 2023 22:37
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Gnoman posted:It is subtle, but Nyneave does a lot of growing up over the course of that arc. She technically has authority over Elayne due to her higher rank in the Tower , but it is a much flimsier sort of authority than that of Wisdom, and has no authority at all over anyone else. That goes a long way toward letting her give up her provincialism later. Agreed, plus her shifting relationship with Egwene. At the very start of the book she is certain that she knows more than everybody, but by the end of the book she is starting to realize that she doesn't ALWAYS have to be in charge/know everything and can rely on other people (a key step to her learning to surrender and break her block). Also, the scene where Nynaeve tries to heal Birgitte makes me tear up every time I read it and would hate for that to get cut.
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Jul 16, 2023 22:40
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tsob posted:
There are definitely parts of Perrin's arc in those books that could be cut, but it does show him growing as a leader and how far he's really willing to go. I wouldn't want to lose it entirely. Plus, it's got the funny scene where he picks up a beam that usually needs 5 or 6 people to carry and just tosses it aside.
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Jul 17, 2023 00:34
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You can’t cut Nynaeve starting a civil war because she asks both Masema and Galad for the one boat
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Jul 17, 2023 02:06
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Ungratek posted:You can’t cut Nynaeve starting a civil war because she asks both Masema and Galad for the one boat hahaha yeah that's a real good moment
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Jul 17, 2023 05:22
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The most if what I remember about Nynaeve from about the circus through the bowl of winds is that she is constantly getting shat upon. Like Mat specifically thinks at one point that he's glad Nynaeve got injured because "that'll knock her down a peg or six." I honestly hope the show doesn't go that route as I thought RJ really made some poor choices. The woman healed stilling as an accepted, singlehandedly bested a forsaken, and is the most powerful channeler since the breaking. Let her be fabulous, don't take those successes as an excuse to step on her neck harder.
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Jul 17, 2023 05:56
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BigHead posted:The most if what I remember about Nynaeve from about the circus through the bowl of winds is that she is constantly getting shat upon. Like Mat specifically thinks at one point that he's glad Nynaeve got injured because "that'll knock her down a peg or six." I honestly hope the show doesn't go that route as I thought RJ really made some poor choices. The woman healed stilling as an accepted, singlehandedly bested a forsaken, and is the most powerful channeler since the breaking. Let her be fabulous, don't take those successes as an excuse to step on her neck harder. She's also a scolding busy body hypocrite who constantly causes interpersonal problems with everyone around her. The entire bowl of the winds saga could have been finished in an afternoon if she'd hadn't been one of the loudest voices against working with Mat. Yea, she did great things but mat wasn't exactly wrong.
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Jul 17, 2023 06:18
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