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"Liability" is a bullshit reason, more likely they don't have anyone around with enough experience to take on older bikes and their more esoteric issues and/or it's just not as profitable as working on new ones. A shop near me is pulling the same thing (different kind of machine) which is fine cause all that work comes to me now instead 
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Jul 18, 2023 23:45
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Brands also heavily discourage selling parts for out of production bikes because it's less profitable, Harley recently made their boomer following very mad by discontinuing spare parts for evolution-engined bikes
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Jul 19, 2023 00:03
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Slavvy posted:Brands also heavily discourage selling parts for out of production bikes because it's less profitable, Harley recently made their boomer following very mad by discontinuing spare parts for evolution-engined bikes About that, as an evo owner, anything I should pickup at the dealership while they still have stock that’s important and substantially better than aftermarket? epswing fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 00:36
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A stator is the only thing I can think of where genuine is really the way to go if at all possible, I've seen issues with aftermarket stator wiring and general quality being a bit poo poo. Aftermarket is generally the same as/an improvement over factory for most stuff on a sporty.
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Jul 19, 2023 01:07
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Arson Daily posted:Here's some bullshit: went to the triumph dealer (euro cycle in Reno) cuz the tiger needs a new clutch cable. Checking out there's a sign saying they no longer work on bikes older than 10 years. Not even tire changes, nada. I asked why and duder just says "liability". Wtf is this a thing now? Having purchased a bike from that dealer, I am unsurprised to hear that they are continuing this sort of shenanigan. I would just do the cable yourself if you're able. If not, BMW in Sparks used to be pretty good at working on all adv bikes regardless of make.
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Jul 19, 2023 01:20
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That's pretty common, that was one of the bummers about closing my shop, I was pretty much the only one willing to work on Pre 2010 stuff
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Jul 19, 2023 01:26
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I don't know why selling the miata was as ezpz as first person to show up, yet the motorcycle that is much nicer, in much better shape, and with a full history plus full stock parts (and I would like to think tastefulish farkles) just gets weird low ball tire kickers that don't read the add or want to trade for a loving random atv or some poo poo. I have gotten a few random compliments though which I guess is cool.
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Jul 19, 2023 01:27
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Opopanax posted:That's pretty common, that was one of the bummers about closing my shop, I was pretty much the only one willing to work on Pre 2010 stuff Pretty amazed at this tbh, only the biggest dealers in this country would be able to stay in business with a policy like that I think of people who can't work on 90's bikes as being fake mechanics tbh
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Jul 19, 2023 01:27
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Slavvy posted:Pretty amazed at this tbh, only the biggest dealers in this country would be able to stay in business with a policy like that Tbf I live in a smaller city, we don't have a lot of indie shops left, the main ones are a Honda, Yamaha and Suzuki dealer (plus they all each have a few other smaller companies)
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Jul 19, 2023 01:34
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I was taking stock and I have so many 3D printed parts on my DRZ. Fork boot clamps/cable stays, turn signal adapter plates, various little relocation brackets and switch mounts, airtag holder, etc. I doubt this resin lasts 10 years but I probably paid the same amount for my resin 3D printer that I would have paid for one pair of OEM fork boots shipped to Canada so hell yeah I'll print more if they snap.
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Jul 19, 2023 02:05
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Mr. Wiggles posted:Having purchased a bike from that dealer, I am unsurprised to hear that they are continuing this sort of shenanigan. I would just do the cable yourself if you're able. If not, BMW in Sparks used to be pretty good at working on all adv bikes regardless of make. Thanks for the heads up! I usually do my own mx on my bikes except for like real deep engine stuff or chasing electrical gremlins so the clutch cable should be straightforward. I'll give beemer a jangle when it's time for the valve check in 4 thousand miles though
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Jul 19, 2023 02:37
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Not that I needed or wanted it but I asked when picking up some parts for my FZ and my local Yamaha dealer would not even do an oil change on anything 10+ years old. They would do fork seals or tire changes if you brought just the forks / rims in but wouldn’t touch a whole bike. My assumption is it’s less about liability and more about dumbassess buying $1500 bikes and wanting the a dealership to “do a tune up” and then getting indignant when the dealer wants to do a full brake job with all seals, valve clearances, and everything else a 20 year old neglected bike needs, etc.
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Jul 19, 2023 03:07
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Some of it is parts, too. Don't want to get halfway into a rebuild and then find out they used some weird piston that year and it hasn't existed since the 90s
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Jul 19, 2023 03:42
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Slavvy posted:Pretty amazed at this tbh, only the biggest dealers in this country would be able to stay in business with a policy like that It's common stateside to decline work on older poo poo. Manufacturers are obligated to supply parts for 10 years and nothing more. It's part that, part liability. I was one of the only morons in the san fran bay area that'd touch a carburetored bike or some other hosed-with-contraption-of-bullshit.
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Jul 19, 2023 16:57
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I wonder if they thought about continuing to service old bikes but anything older than X years just gets charged per time rather than per job, and however long it takes is however long it takes. This seems like a reasonable compromise, I’m not going to refuse service, but if you really want me to work on that old beater, I’m going to charge for my time, and if I have to deal with any stupid bullshit, it’s going to cost you. This also incentivizes owners to keep their old bikes in good condition to minimize shop time they get charged for.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:27
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I mean paid by time is 100% fair, the issue is finding someone that’s not going to gently caress you over on it. The counterpoint I guess is that type of mechanic would just refuse old poo poo anyway.
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Jul 19, 2023 17:38
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Is there any analogue to this in the automotive world? I just got warranty airbag work done on a 20 year old Honda and my fav indie shop never blinks an eye when some other bs happens to the old girl. New bikes have loads and loads of new tech, what happens when they get to be 10+ years old? Do manufacturers allow indie shops access to the specialized tools and software to fix those bikes? I'm really, really tired of the planned obsolescence and everything-a-subscription model corporations are pushing so hard. It's one thing if it's your tv or phone but entirely different for durable goods like cars and bikes
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Jul 19, 2023 18:00
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epswing posted:I wonder if they thought about continuing to service old bikes but anything older than X years just gets charged per time rather than per job, and however long it takes is however long it takes. Ok I think I understand now cause charging by time is the norm here Arson Daily posted:Is there any analogue to this in the automotive world? I just got warranty airbag work done on a 20 year old Honda and my fav indie shop never blinks an eye when some other bs happens to the old girl. New bikes have loads and loads of new tech, what happens when they get to be 10+ years old? Do manufacturers allow indie shops access to the specialized tools and software to fix those bikes? Lol Lmao You will pry my carbureted garbage from my cold dead hands is what I say to that
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Jul 19, 2023 18:20
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Arson Daily posted:Is there any analogue to this in the automotive world? I just got warranty airbag work done on a 20 year old Honda and my fav indie shop never blinks an eye when some other bs happens to the old girl. New bikes have loads and loads of new tech, what happens when they get to be 10+ years old? Do manufacturers allow indie shops access to the specialized tools and software to fix those bikes? Dealers won't touch older vehicles. MB may be an exception but do not count on it. They're pretty good about parts support too but you will pay. Automotive wise a lot of tooling has gone to a subscription based model that costs appropriately. There are *some* indie tools but it's usually not as comprehensive. Mercedes' STAR comes to mind. Most small indys can't afford it. Volvo with VIDA, etc. This chaps my rear end but also it's not too different than specialized physical tools for things like setting injection/ignition timing, cambelts, etc. Don't get me started on planned obsolescence and how I literally can't make a domestic commercial duty truck work as their marketing materials indicate. In short. Slavvy posted:
This. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 18:24
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Slavvy posted:Ok I think I understand now cause charging by time is the norm here It's my understanding that jobs take a certain amount of "units" and the shop charges "per unit" and a unit is generally an hour. I think I read/watched somewhere that e.g. for a 1.5 unit job the tech gets paid as if they worked 1.5 units whether it took 90 minutes or not, so if the job takes longer for whatever reason, rather than the client paying the dealership more, the dealership just pays the tech less (i.e. technically the client is paying 'per job' rather than 'per time'). I wouldn't be surprised if each job is assigned an unrealistically low unit value. Sounds like a nightmare. Techs confirm/deny?
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Jul 19, 2023 18:58
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That's how it was at the Toyota stealership I worked at for a few years; each job had a number of "book hours" attached to it, and you got paid that amount for taking on that job no matter how long it took you to actually get it done. The more experienced techs could knock those jobs out faster then what the book said it should take, so they'd get (for example) 8 hours of pay for 3-4 hours of actual work and then move on to the next ticket. It was possible to clock more than 24 hours of pay in a 10-12 hour shift this way, but those gravy jobs only went to the most senior techs and/or whoever was best buds with the shop manager. Edit: that's kinda how it works at my shop now, but it's more that I just know how long a particular repair will take me, the parts cost, and how much I enjoy/hate working on that model, and charge accordingly. My customers are all drug fiends though so nobody ever bats an eye at my prices, they just ask how soon it can be done. bizwank fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 19:08
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Arson Daily posted:Is there any analogue to this in the automotive world? I just got warranty airbag work done on a 20 year old Honda and my fav indie shop never blinks an eye when some other bs happens to the old girl. New bikes have loads and loads of new tech, what happens when they get to be 10+ years old? Do manufacturers allow indie shops access to the specialized tools and software to fix those bikes? about 20 years ago I enquired on doing a minor paint job for my car that got scuffed and the guy gave me a gently caress off quote and said it wasn't worth his time to do that kind of work. If you look at the average body shop now the good ones have a steady stream of teslas fixing the gently caress ups from the factory and I'd have to assume they only have gotten more selective on their work. I think if you're a small mechanic shop you're likely carving out a niche for older cars because the demand is there and it's a way to stick out from the crowd. If you go to the dealership they're not going to waste their time on you when they can be ripping through warranty work they do day in and day out and get book time for it. Lmao @ your last point. The horse has bolted from the stables on that poo poo like 10 years ago and no matter how much complaining you do or how many buzz words Cory doctorow slaps on it won't change it now that's so entrenched
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Jul 19, 2023 19:22
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Venting a bit, but holy poo poo the new owners of where I get my Ducati Scrambler serviced are terrible. I left it sitting for a few months while I recovered from shoulder surgery, so I brought it in for the yearly service and inspection once I got the OK to ride again. That was about a month and a half ago. They said they would call me when the inspection was done and talk through what all I wanted them to work on. I was thinking of selling the bike next spring. So if anything could wait a year or so to be serviced, I'd rather not pay for it now. I called them once a week to check in until about three weeks ago, when they told me they had ordered all the parts they needed to fix my bike. I said I hadn't even asked them to fix anything, but they said we would go over what needed repairs and cost estimates once all the parts came in. I went on vacation for a while and stopped calling them for a bit. Turns out that was a mistake. They called me today and said the repairs were done and the bike was ready except that they needed to order new tires and would do that this week (they said over a month ago that I needed new tires, why are they just ordering them now?). I talked them through our previous conversations, and that I hadn't approved them to work on anything yet. I had to hang up on the service dept because of a work call, so I guess I'll save more arguing when I pick up my bike. The work didn't end up being anything too crazy, and I did get the service charge discounted a bit. So that's something, I guess. Now I'm definitely going to sell it, because I don't want to deal with that bullshit again. Time to look for my next bike.
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Jul 19, 2023 19:24
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epswing posted:It's my understanding that jobs take a certain amount of "units" and the shop charges "per unit" and a unit is generally an hour. I think I read/watched somewhere that e.g. for a 1.5 unit job the tech gets paid as if they worked 1.5 units whether it took 90 minutes or not, so if the job takes longer for whatever reason, rather than the client paying the dealership more, the dealership just pays the tech less (i.e. technically the client is paying 'per job' rather than 'per time'). I wouldn't be surprised if each job is assigned an unrealistically low unit value. Sounds like a nightmare. Techs confirm/deny? bizwank posted:That's how it was at the Toyota stealership I worked at for a few years; each job had a number of "book hours" attached to it, and you got paid that amount for taking on that job no matter how long it took you to actually get it done. The more experienced techs could knock those jobs out faster then what the book said it should take, so they'd get (for example) 8 hours of pay for 3-4 hours of actual work and then move on to the next ticket. It was possible to clock more than 24 hours of pay in a 10-12 hour shift this way, but those gravy jobs only went to the most senior techs and/or whoever was best buds with the shop manager. Lol this is nightmare poo poo
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Jul 19, 2023 19:36
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The older I get the more I'm glad I never deal with mechanics ever lol
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Jul 19, 2023 19:42
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Slavvy posted:Lol this is nightmare poo poo
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Jul 19, 2023 19:52
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Professor Wayne posted:Venting a bit, but holy poo poo the new owners of where I get my Ducati Scrambler serviced are terrible. I left it sitting for a few months while I recovered from shoulder surgery, so I brought it in for the yearly service and inspection once I got the OK to ride again. That was about a month and a half ago. They said they would call me when the inspection was done and talk through what all I wanted them to work on. I was thinking of selling the bike next spring. So if anything could wait a year or so to be serviced, I'd rather not pay for it now. I got so mad just reading this, unauthorized work makes me rage.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:03
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epswing posted:It's my understanding that jobs take a certain amount of "units" and the shop charges "per unit" and a unit is generally an hour. I think I read/watched somewhere that e.g. for a 1.5 unit job the tech gets paid as if they worked 1.5 units whether it took 90 minutes or not, so if the job takes longer for whatever reason, rather than the client paying the dealership more, the dealership just pays the tech less (i.e. technically the client is paying 'per job' rather than 'per time'). I wouldn't be surprised if each job is assigned an unrealistically low unit value. Sounds like a nightmare. Techs confirm/deny? Correct. It's called flat-rate. There's a published manual, sometimes by manufacturer and or third parties that notate the average amount of hours to do a job. Fleet maintenance is usually hourly. When I was a young person working in a restoration shop I didn't get paid for a month when I chipped the paint on a C3 corvette doing final assembly and vacuum systems on the headlamps. They didn't prior do the bodywork for it and was relying on me to shim it all up to work. The lamp caught the body at full extension and that was that. This was in 2008/9 and I was making $10/hr working on 50-150 thousand dollar cars. E: should also say this resto shop outed me and fired me over it. The tech holds all of the liability for fuckups, sometimes is a 1099 (You're a contractor figure your own taxes out), with no healthcare, time off, vacation, and are expected to bring their own 100 grand toolkit to the shop. I interviewed at an "off-road" shop in Alameda, CA after a knee surgery in 2016, the nurse was the wife of the owner. He wanted knowledge of fabrication, tig, arc, calculus, geometry for cages, safety critical systems, rebuilding and setting up geartrains, differentials, engines, performance stuff like blowers and turbo installs. The pay? $17/hr flatrate and 1099. No bennies. I laughed in his face and ended the interview right there. Walked out to the drz and rode off. (the scoot shop at the time was paying significantly more with actual benefits, I still quit them a few months later.) I tried to pay a shop to do the 8 hour book job + 4 hour cab removal job on this 11 year old F550 I own to replace the turbo. They declined the operation. They were also looking for a tech so I soft interviewed them. They pay their diesel techs 15.50/hr and I'm not having a minimum wage individual working on a twenty-five-thousand-dollar-engine. I did it in 9 hours with the cab-on the first time. The shop that did it last pulled the cab and oriented all of the clamps/hardware accordingly which doesn't facilitate the job with the cab-on. The second time, I did it in 3.5. 4 hours from driving to driving. Both times two up with a helper. Some manufacturers run the books on the short side. iirc Mercedes has 20.4 hours to r&r a M103/M104 engine. It usually takes longer. Try like 30 hours. Cambelts on Japanese cars hosed me up one side and down the other everytime. Nissan VG30DEs I always went hungry on. It was hard to lose money on old Rovers and Jags which is why I specialized in those horrible things. With the shop I owned I charged either by the job or however long it took. Things like gremlin diagnostics and the like eat the hours and is usually on the house so to speak. The shop was big into being honest with customers and not selling them poo poo they didn't need. It was a big part of its success and drives my disdain for the field, Shops love to gently caress people and push the employees to do such. The gravy jobs and favoritism is spot on. If you don't play ball you don't eat. Playing ball means loving over customers, coworkers, etc. It's an extremely slimy field. I was a fleet mechanic a couple times. Buses in 2009, at $10 an hour working on million dollar hardware. Later like 2010ish working on a fleet 6.0L PSDs for at the time, a livable wage of like 20/hr but salary. I maintained a bunch of other equipment at the same time and more often than not wound up working 80 hour weeks. This was also time shared with the rover shop and an electronics shop for a while. The 6Ls were book eaters. Harness issues, oil coolers, egr valves, injector o rings, headgaskets, that sorta poo poo all the time. Nothing was ever 'book time' on those dumb engines and I'm glad I was at least salary. The scoot shop in 2015-16 was a shitshow but the pay/bennies/etc made up for it and I was in college at the time. They were easy to work on vehicles but they were absolutely garbage vehicles. I haven't worked for a shop since 2016 and probably never will again but it's a skill I am most grateful for. Most shops can't afford me. I will mercenary when the pay is right. cursedshitbox fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jul 19, 2023 |
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Jul 19, 2023 20:11
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Was the scoot shop Scuderia West in the city by chance?
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Jul 19, 2023 20:25
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Nah it was private, the little yellow three wheeled tourist traps you see bombing into every pothole in SF.
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Jul 19, 2023 20:27
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cursedshitbox posted:Nah it was private, the little yellow three wheeled tourist traps you see bombing into every pothole in SF. Oh woof, shocked they had bennies and poo poo
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Jul 19, 2023 21:02
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TheBacon posted:I mean paid by time is 100% fair, the issue is finding someone that’s not going to gently caress you over on it. I was pacing around the service area of the local Harley dealership last weekend because it’s the only spot around me set up to do state inspections. Guy came in because somehow his exhaust flange nuts had rattled off (???) and he needed new ones installed. Initially they wanted him to leave the bike but even this guy was like wtf. So they agreed to do it while he waited. $75.
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Jul 20, 2023 02:48
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Nuts rattled while U wait
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Jul 20, 2023 02:53
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What type of education goes into being a mechanic? I assume a lot of people start with apprenticeships and just learn on the job in some small shop or something, but are there certs/schools/programs? Do you get hired to do shitwork at a dealership and they send you to get trained, or is it one of those things where they pay you 10/hour and then expect you to shell out 8000 of it to get certified on your own? How do you get into fleet stuff like maintaining/rebuilding bigrig diesels and stuff?
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Jul 20, 2023 20:02
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There are numerous trade schools available. Here in the US most school systems have some sort of vocational option at the high school level that kids can get into to start training as an auto or diesel mechanic. There are plenty of career schools for adults too. Your local community college may even have something. Local example for me is called Great Oaks which is an adult vocational school that also has programs for high schoolers. Automotive/diesel mechanics, auto body, welding, HVAC, construction tech, CNC, robotics, medical and nursing assistants of all sorts, IT programs, even a police academy (ACAB). All of those programs have tuition costs, they're not cheap. I couldn't tell you which of them are worth it and which are ripoffs; for all I know, they all are. I took a little 3-month weekend welding course there and it was worth my $500 since all of the equipment and supplies were included. A couple of the people I took the class with applied and were hired for entry-level welding gigs at local manufacturers for $17.50/hr. Not sure if car dealers are still hiring kids to do oil changes and then paying for their ASE certification somewhere.
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Jul 20, 2023 21:19
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I went through Toyota's T-TEN program at my local community college, it was pretty cheap and I had my pick of dealerships to work at during and after the program. There was at least one other big-name manufacturer with a similar program there at the time. These days I'd probably try to specialize in diesel or electric though, that's where most of the money's going to be in the future.
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Jul 20, 2023 23:05
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Getting into mechanics is like an rpg buff where you get to never pay anyone to work on a vehicle or machine ever again but you also take a big hit to dex and str and HP
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Jul 20, 2023 23:18
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I've always wondered whether constantly having petroleum products on your skin affects your saving throw for cancer, death or dragon's breath.
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Jul 21, 2023 00:42
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Remy Marathe posted:I've always wondered whether constantly having petroleum products on your skin affects your saving throw for cancer, death or dragon's breath. Plenty of VOCs to freshen the air too
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Jul 21, 2023 01:45
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Don't forget airborne brake and clutch particles
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Jul 21, 2023 03:22
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