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The dark one won in those visions so if they were real wouldn't that mean he destroyed the wheel? Are alternate timelines a part of the wheel or do they have their own wheel?
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Aug 17, 2023 20:17
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I do think it's really unlikely they could fit it with the time constraints they have. In a show like this every scene needs to serve multiple purposes - building characters, driving plot, building the world, etc How quickly could you do flicker flicker and have it make sense and also be as effective as in the books? Ten minutes? That's a massive amount of time to focus on just Rand and and foreshadowing his destiny, in what amounts to a dream sequence. That said I hope I am wrong and they do have it, since it's one of the most memorable sequences in the first three books and as such maybe worth the time spent.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:18
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I legitimately think they ended season 1 the way they did so they wouldn't have to do the flicker scene
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Aug 17, 2023 20:24
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Legion pulled off the flicker flicker sequence over the course of an episode with an FX budget, WoT could do the same if they wanted to. I'm guessing Rand's thing in the finale last season will be that moment in his development, and we might see a parallel moment in Egwene's accepted test.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:24
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Nihilarian posted:The dark one won in those visions so if they were real wouldn't that mean he destroyed the wheel? Are alternate timelines a part of the wheel or do they have their own wheel? It was Ishy's voice taunting Lews Therin in the visions, so there is no true determination that it's the dark one winning in finality. For all we know Logain or another 'false' candidate is selected to take the mantle by the wheel and goes on to pull off a buzzer beater, prophecy be damned
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Aug 17, 2023 20:26
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Nihilarian posted:The dark one won in those visions so if they were real wouldn't that mean he destroyed the wheel? Are alternate timelines a part of the wheel or do they have their own wheel? Eh, unclear. The "I win again, Lews Therin" is assumedly Ishamael, not TDO though, so Ishamael thinking that he's won doesn't mean that the wheel is actually destroyed. Rand dies in most of the visions, but Rand dying isn't what breaks the wheel.
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Aug 17, 2023 20:27
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Nihilarian posted:I legitimately think they ended season 1 the way they did so they wouldn't have to do the flicker scene Was about to say this
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Aug 17, 2023 21:34
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Gully Foyle posted:Eh, unclear. The "I win again, Lews Therin" is assumedly Ishamael, not TDO though, so Ishamael thinking that he's won doesn't mean that the wheel is actually destroyed. Rand dies in most of the visions, but Rand dying isn't what breaks the wheel. Huh. My interpretation was always that those other worlds were probabilities, worlds that could have been, but then didn't.
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Aug 17, 2023 21:56
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CainsDescendant posted:Legion pulled off the flicker flicker sequence over the course of an episode with an FX budget, WoT could do the same if they wanted to. I'm guessing Rand's thing in the finale last season will be that moment in his development, and we might see a parallel moment in Egwene's accepted test. Consider the showrunner for each though.
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Aug 17, 2023 23:49
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Libluini posted:Huh. My interpretation was always that those other worlds were probabilities, worlds that could have been, but then didn't. Also we don't really know ANYthing about the exact cause of the flicker scene. It's somewhat probably Ishy having messed with it somehow, I think, but we also know basically nothing about the portal stones and there was a very lot of Pattern tampering going on in tGH so...
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Aug 18, 2023 01:02
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That’s why they’re all great scenes, you’re never told what they are and that goes for the adept trials too. They could be alt timelines, could be alternate dimensions, could be both! Who knows! All the weird dimension magic is so good. The aelfinn, the rhuidean gates, dreamland, fuckin great.
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Aug 18, 2023 05:40
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Amazon has a time associated with the release now, if you visit the season 2 page on the website or app: midnight for the west coast. For me it says 3AM ET on Sept 1, central Europeans see 9AM, 8AM in the UK, and so on.
pik_d fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Aug 18, 2023 |
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Aug 18, 2023 13:30
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seaborgium posted:They don't have to show the whole thing, do some background stuff showing glimpses of other scenes that can be all CGI, have everyone act really messed up by it. They either do it "right" or they don't do it at all. Cause if they don't do it right you're just wasting screen time on something that non-book readers aren't going to care about, and will just piss off the book readers.
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Aug 18, 2023 16:38
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I've never thought about it before, but similar to how Mandragoran isn't so far removed from Aragorn, Tel aran rhiod isn't so far removed from Tir Na Nog. I'll have to keep my eyes open for any others
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Aug 19, 2023 13:09
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I've never thought about it before, but similar to how Mandragoran isn't so far removed from Aragorn, Tel aran rhiod isn't so far removed from Tir Na Nog. I'll have to keep my eyes open for any others Tel'aran'rhiod almost certainly gets its name from Caer Arianrhod in the Mabinogi. It literally translates as "fort of the silver wheel", but it was likely that Jordan just liked the sound of it.
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Aug 19, 2023 14:40
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I've never thought about it before, but similar to how Mandragoran isn't so far removed from Aragorn, Tel aran rhiod isn't so far removed from Tir Na Nog. I'll have to keep my eyes open for any others Gods I hope this is a joke.
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Aug 19, 2023 15:35
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*voice of someone who knows Welsh mythology*: "You can't be serious"
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Aug 19, 2023 15:53
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Mad Hamish posted:Gods I hope this is a joke. If it was a joke on their end, it's certainly not on mine as someone who hadn't had that thought before. I'm not a fan of The Lord of the Rings though, having read it once around my pre-teens, so it's not surprising to me that I wouldn't link Mandragoran to Aragorn. I am Irish though, and while Tir na nÓg doesn't have a huge part in modern Ireland, it and other Irish myths would still have been a not insignificant part of history lessons while I was in primary school; and yet I'd never have linked it to Tel'aran'rhiod either frankly, because, I suppose, I just don't find them particularly similar in sound or in actual context. Sure, Tir na nÓg is also an other world, but it's one filled with life of various kinds and it's its own place, rather than an empty and dream like mirror of the real world.
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Aug 19, 2023 16:08
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Personally, I think Mandragoran references the mythical plant Mandrake, and you can't make me change my opinion. 
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Aug 19, 2023 17:58
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He Lancelot you sillies
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Aug 19, 2023 18:11
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A man. A lan. A canal. Panama
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Aug 19, 2023 18:58
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TBH if you see something in WoT that might be a reference or allusion, it probably is. Jordan loved that poo poo, and he very obviously delighted in mixing, matching, and just generally messing with it. I mean. Dude named his main character "al'Thor" and then had a different dude be the burly one with a (magic) hammer.
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Aug 19, 2023 19:48
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bio347 posted:TBH if you see something in WoT that might be a reference or allusion, it probably is. Jordan loved that poo poo, and he very obviously delighted in mixing, matching, and just generally messing with it. Does Rand have any Norse connections besides the name? Mat has a lot of Odin. Edit: Looked it up, Tyr for losing the hand at least, but also some Thor. MajorBonnet fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Aug 19, 2023 |
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Aug 19, 2023 19:58
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Jedit posted:Tel'aran'rhiod almost certainly gets its name from Caer Arianrhod in the Mabinogi. It literally translates as "fort of the silver wheel", but it was likely that Jordan just liked the sound of it. I once heard Jordan tell a lengthy story -- this was of course decades ago and I don't remember the story well -- about being in a Welsh bookshop and the lady behind the counter, a young woman with beautiful curly red hair naturally, had him hanging on her every word because even like 'that will be four pound six" or whatever sounded beautiful in a Gaelic accent. And so he talks with her for a bit and he's hanging on her every word and at the end as he's leaving the store she says "I so love the sound of your accent" because of course to her he sounds southern and exotic.
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Aug 19, 2023 20:03
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MajorBonnet posted:Does Rand have any Norse connections besides the name? Mat has a lot of Odin. It was widely discussed in the 90s that they were Tyr, Odin and Thor. Also Lan is Uther Pendragon not Lancelot.
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Aug 19, 2023 20:15
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MajorBonnet posted:Does Rand have any Norse connections besides the name? Mat has a lot of Odin. You're overreaching. It's al'Thor because it sounds a bit like Arthur. I mean, his hometown sweetheart is Egwene al'Vere and he's related to Galad and Gawyn who live in Caemlyn, if you need more hints.
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Aug 19, 2023 20:26
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The Norse allusions for Rand, Mat and Perrin are all very deliberate. It's part of the whole their history becomes our myth thing
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Aug 19, 2023 20:56
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Jedit posted:You're overreaching. Not really no. There can be more than one thing found in the mix.
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Aug 20, 2023 03:23
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Dysgenesis posted:It was widely discussed in the 90s that they were Tyr, Odin and Thor. Camlan is the battle in which Arthur is said to have been killed by Mordred Morgause is Arthur's half sister Two of her children are... Gawain and Gareth Forgot how many of these there are
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Aug 20, 2023 07:23
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Don't forget Egwene Al'Vere and Gweneivere or Guinevere E: iirc Berelain's last name is Paendrag Artur Hawkwing obviously Shageletic fucked around with this message at 13:08 on Aug 20, 2023 |
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Aug 20, 2023 13:05
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Oh yeah Lews Therin Telamon, Lucifer Lord of the Morning, Morningstar
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Aug 20, 2023 13:14
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And Nynaeve aka Niniue the Lady of the Lake Thom Merrilin is supposed to evoke Merlin but to me Amyrlin was always a lot more obvious
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Aug 20, 2023 13:21
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Shageletic posted:Oh yeah Lews Therin Telamon, Lucifer I remember finding out that a Telamon is a supporting column shaped like a man in high school art class.
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Aug 20, 2023 19:13
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Devorum posted:I remember finding out that a Telamon is a supporting column shaped like a man in high school art class. That's cool. Anyways, Crossroads of Twilight is definitely the nadir of the series so far. Jordan seemed to almost get pleasure from not advancing the plot materially from Winter's Heart, with some 270 pages in of every major character virtually being in the same place they were a book ago. It also doesn't any of the mini climaxes that Winter's Heart had, along with the general lack of cohesiveness found in the books since LoC. It also doesn't seem to have the dark meta themes and psychological narratives that have made these latter books better than what I remembered. Nah, this is definitely a slog of one step of a time. And Elayne's House maneuvering is also a slog to go thru as well. It just seems so small compared to the stakes present in the series so far, and with an overwhelming cast of characters that seem as irritating as they are uninteresting.
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Aug 21, 2023 03:35
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Shageletic posted:Anyways, Crossroads of Twilight is definitely the nadir of the series so far. Jordan seemed to almost get pleasure from not advancing the plot materially from Winter's Heart, with some 270 pages in of every major character virtually being in the same place they were a book ago. It also doesn't any of the mini climaxes that Winter's Heart had, along with the general lack of cohesiveness found in the books since LoC. IIRC, even Jordan didn't think it worked properly, but you can really see what he was trying to do. The end of Winter's Heart is a fundamental change in the balance of the world, and wanting to demonstrate how everybody reacted is a plausible idea.
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Aug 21, 2023 04:40
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Gnoman posted:IIRC, even Jordan didn't think it worked properly, but you can really see what he was trying to do. The end of Winter's Heart is a fundamental change in the balance of the world, and wanting to demonstrate how everybody reacted is a plausible idea. So plausible that he spent the entire of Crossroads of Twilight doing it again.
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Aug 21, 2023 10:22
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Jedit posted:So plausible that he spent the entire of Crossroads of Twilight doing it again. Yes, that is what I'm saying. Even if it didn't work like he planned, spending much of Crossroads of Twilight on "how did everybody in the world react to what the gently caress just happened" is an idea that sounds worth playing with.
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Aug 21, 2023 10:38
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Hilariously/terribly though, it is almost all not about reacting to the taint being cleansed. So you just have this massive epoch-making moment at the end of one book and then a whole book of basically no one talking about it at all.
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Aug 21, 2023 15:47
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Aren't half the scenes in that book either chronologically before the taint is cleansed or involving people who don't even know about it? I remember reading it and wondering when the hell someone was going to address this supposedly earth shattering event but the book barely touches it. And honestly it never seems to affect the course of events that much. It removes a sword from over Rand's head, but it was a sword that could never really drop because he's the protagonist. He still has the nausea and weakness when he embraces the source afterwards. Taim is still a darkfriend and the Black Tower still goes completely to poo poo. It was a thing that needed to happen but I feel like the real ramifications would have all happened after the last battle and the books barely touch that.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:11
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Yeah I seem to remember most of the "reacting" being some brief moments of, like, some Asha'man looking off into the distance, realizing what just happened, being overcome with happiness, and then the book moving along as normal. And they were cool moments, but most of the book has nothing to do with it. But as has been said, even Jordan admitted the way he structured the book was a mistake.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:22
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