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thekeeshman posted:
Cleansing the Taint had at least one immediate ramification on the Black Tower: it removed protection from it as a recruitment tool for Taim. That possibly kept a few more Asha'man on Rand's side.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:22
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What pissed me off the most about that book was that it was the first book I waited for. I started reading the series shortly after Winter's Heart came out. So when I finally caught up, Crossroads of Twilight was the first one I had to wait for and anticipate. And then...that poo poo came out. Ugh.
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Aug 21, 2023 16:26
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Also a lot of the hate and fear of men channeling had become systemic at that point. It doesn't matter if it's cleansed or not. Look at most of the actual experiences people talk about in the books about their interactions with men who can channel. They are sad or pitied. But the world in general treat them as evil incarnate.
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Aug 21, 2023 17:12
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Also a big theme of the books is fixing past mistakes. Honestly the cleansing would've been a good place to just kick off the last battle right there.
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Aug 21, 2023 17:42
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Also a big theme of the books is fixing past mistakes. Rand cleanses the taint. WHAT THE gently caress. DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW HARD IT WAS TO gently caress THAT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE? THAT'S IT, LAST BATTLE NOW. Of course in Gilbert Gottfried voice.
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Aug 21, 2023 17:51
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Dark One Gilbert Godfried / Creator Paul Reubens
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Aug 21, 2023 17:55
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thrawn527 posted:Rand cleanses the taint. Well I'm just imagining all of that DERMANDRED stuff in his voice and now I'm cackling like a cartoon witch.
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Aug 21, 2023 17:55
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Also a big theme of the books is fixing past mistakes. Honestly that's pretty much exactly when Moridin pushes the button, it just takes the rest of the world a few months to realize that it's kicked off.
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Aug 21, 2023 18:38
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:Honestly that's pretty much exactly when Moridin pushes the button, it just takes the rest of the world a few months to realize that it's kicked off. Yeah, that's the first time Moridin actively encourages killing Rand. Shortly after "Dashiva" hears that Rand is planning on cleansing the taint is when he makes an attempt on Rand's life. At that point Moridin's only play left was to have Rand destroy the world, which almost worked!
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Aug 21, 2023 18:43
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Gnoman posted:Yes, that is what I'm saying. Even if it didn't work like he planned, spending much of Crossroads of Twilight on "how did everybody in the world react to what the gently caress just happened" is an idea that sounds worth playing with. Regardless, I have a soft spot for the book. In part probably because it was actually the first one I had to wait for as a kid, which I know is the opposite reaction to most people. It's also just generally got a decent amount of Mat in it and that's almost never a bad thing.
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Aug 21, 2023 20:11
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bio347 posted:I really do think that the idea of CoT's structure is pretty drat neat. Time kinda slowly advances as we move from PoV to PoV, and the theory behind it seems sound as you say (on paper, at least). It was also probably a bit of a necessary evil, because the end result is that all of the plotlines are finally again in the same temporal moment so that KoD and onward can put on the jets to the finish line. You say this but then Perrin ends up yonks behind everyone else for ToM
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Aug 21, 2023 20:21
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Every time I get to Crossroads of Twilight on my rereads, i always forget that almost everything I remember as being good in it actually happens in Path of Daggers. Almost the entire book is a lot of tedious shoe leather to get characters into position to pay off the next book, which is actually, in retrospect, one of the better books in the series. Even the Mat stuff is largely just a lengthy preamble to setting up his courtship of Tuon, which is mostly actually developed in PoD.
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Aug 21, 2023 20:31
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In So Habor
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Aug 21, 2023 20:47
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Every time I get to Crossroads of Twilight on my rereads, i always forget that almost everything I remember as being good in it actually happens in Path of Daggers. Almost the entire book is a lot of tedious shoe leather to get characters into position to pay off the next book, which is actually, in retrospect, one of the better books in the series. Even the Mat stuff is largely just a lengthy preamble to setting up his courtship of Tuon, which is mostly actually developed in PoD. I think you meant Knife of Dreams both times? But yeah, most of everything is in KoD, except for the Perrin moment where he throws away the axe that's been referenced since book 1.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:18
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Nothing good happens in Path of Daggers
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Aug 21, 2023 21:36
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Gnoman posted:IIRC, even Jordan didn't think it worked properly, but you can really see what he was trying to do. The end of Winter's Heart is a fundamental change in the balance of the world, and wanting to demonstrate how everybody reacted is a plausible idea. That would be cool, but unfortunately ppl didn't seem to react to it other than a brief surge of surprise and panic, then it was back to their own somewhat interminable plots. E: looks like I wasn't alone in thinking this Shageletic fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Aug 21, 2023 |
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Aug 21, 2023 21:41
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Mad Hamish posted:Well I'm just imagining all of that DERMANDRED stuff in his voice and now I'm cackling like a cartoon witch. Imagine no more! https://youtu.be/4X8xqmu5Uyw
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Aug 21, 2023 21:48
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Rarity posted:Nothing good happens in Path of Daggers Especially not to armies
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Aug 21, 2023 21:49
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Even male channelers didn’t believe it after it happened cause they were still infected by madness it just didn’t progress past that point. Only wonder girl Nynaeve found a way to heal the madness and nobody really seemed to care after that. It probably should have changed the world more drastically than it did especially if you wanted to write a whole book on its effects.
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Aug 21, 2023 21:51
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Rarity posted:Nothing good happens in Path of Daggers I just finished PoD on my reread and the book was way better than I remembered. Perrin bumbling through a meeting with Alliandre and being honest which makes her think he is a master tactician, all while Morgase is watching? Fantastic scene. The use of the bowl and Elayne accidentally mini-nuking the Seanchan? Good stuff. Rand's Vietnam? Good, albeit not for any character who is involved. Elayne hasn't become insufferable yet, but I know it's coming. I remember liking CoT but the parts that I remember really liking all involve Mat. We'll see what I think on this reread. Nthing the other posters who think it's a cool concept, but the execution didn't quite work. It was the second book I had to wait for, and was definitely hoping to get to the fireworks factory. Which we did in AKoD, but the 5 years between Winter's Heart and A Knife of Dreams were too long. "There's a new WoT book! Oh, it's a prequel." Jordan did say that he only worked on/released New Spring when he did because he felt pressured by his publishers, and regretted doing so afterwards. He said he wouldn't release any other prequels until after the series was finished and well...guess we're not getting those.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:07
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Rarity posted:Nothing good happens in Path of Daggers Yeah, my brother just finished Crown of Swords for the first time and did not enjoy it, and I don't know what to tell him about what's coming. Keep at it, buddy?
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Aug 21, 2023 22:11
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:I think you meant Knife of Dreams both times? Yep. The [blank] of [blank] names all entirely blend together after Lord of Chaos, when they stop having anything much to do with the book contents.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:11
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RembrandtQEinstein posted:"There's a new WoT book! Oh, it's a prequel." I'm not even mad at New Spring, because it's a good book. Its timing is unfortunate, as is the fact that we'll never get more prequels (which obviously pales in comparison to losing the man himself), but the book is good enough that I think it justifies its existence, if that makes sense. But I was also annoyed at the time when that came out instead of a mainline book.
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Aug 21, 2023 22:16
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The patient nerd who started reading the books after they were all out wins again
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Aug 21, 2023 22:21
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I finished New Spring recently and it hits way better when it's not following a year+ long wait from CoT (and with KoD to read straight after). The development of Moiraine and Lan's relationship is really cute  Very excited to get into KoD now. I was very down on it the first time cause I was still angry about The Slog so I'm excited to reassess
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Aug 21, 2023 22:52
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To be entirely fair, the world at large's reaction (or lack thereof) to the Cleansing is incredibly realistic and believable. Particularly in the world of today. It just... is maybe not as fun to read about.Rarity posted:You say this but then Perrin ends up yonks behind everyone else for ToM
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Aug 21, 2023 23:05
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So we got our first season 3 leak The aftermath of a bloody battle in the White Tower, looks like the coup happens in season 3. This poor extra or whoever they are probably had no idea how much info could be gleaned from this image  
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Aug 21, 2023 23:16
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I don't think it not immediately changing the world is especially unreasonable when you consider just how short a span of time was involved. The entire series takes place over three years, and cleansing saidin is in the third year.
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Aug 21, 2023 23:29
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Colonel Cool posted:I don't think it not immediately changing the world is especially unreasonable when you consider just how short a span of time was involved. The entire series takes place over three years, and cleansing saidin is in the third year. Also how many male channelers are there?
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Aug 21, 2023 23:41
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Shageletic posted:That would be cool, but unfortunately ppl didn't seem to react to it other than a brief surge of surprise and panic, then it was back to their own somewhat interminable plots. I don't know that I'd go quite that far because fear of what it portended push the Salidar group of Aes Sedai into co-operating with the Asha'man, which at the time felt like it could have huge implications; it's just that the pay off for that is mostly in smaller characters and moving background players around in the end, rather than meaning anything to the main cast, since Rand basically abandons the Black Tower and Egwene is a captive at the time if I recall. I did like that to most of the world it was a mystery they could only shrug in the face of because it was so overwhelming they couldn't do anything about it at the time, and so unknown they couldn't figure out anything about it after the fact but I do think that it might have helped if at least one member of the main cast had been able to push their plot forward as a direct result of it. It might have helped if we'd gotten a bit more POV for a Forsaken and how it hosed their plans and forced them to change things up drastically or something even.
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Aug 22, 2023 00:02
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Saidin being clean is monumental difference and yet is also completely invisible to everyone in the world except maybe 1000 men and like 100 women who bonded/were bonded by them
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Aug 22, 2023 05:43
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Every time this thread talks about the cleansing I'm reminded that Nynaeve learned how to heal madness, and with this incredible discovery healed exactly one person. She never healed anyone else, and never taught the other yellows.
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Aug 22, 2023 05:55
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Didn’t the last battle kick off days after she healed that guy? There were other things to worry about, and I recall getting sweet eff all in the way of epilogue that didn’t involve Rand and his harem. Maybe she taught others after the literal end of creation had been averted.
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Aug 22, 2023 05:58
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I love the all the chapters where they do the cleansing but it basically amounts to nothing. Rand wasn’t really going mad and would eventually cleanse himself and most of the male channelers basically say they can’t really tell a difference. For something so monumental it should have had sweeping consequences. I guess putting more effort into the black tower like the other goon suggested would have been the correct choice but the black tower needed more focus anyways. He had the cool rear end idea and nowhere to take it.
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Aug 22, 2023 05:59
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Invalid Validation posted:I love the all the chapters where they do the cleansing but it basically amounts to nothing. Rand wasn’t really going mad and would eventually cleanse himself and most of the male channelers basically say they can’t really tell a difference. For something so monumental it should have had sweeping consequences. I guess putting more effort into the black tower like the other goon suggested would have been the correct choice but the black tower needed more focus anyways. He had the cool rear end idea and nowhere to take it. I mean, long-term it's a really big deal. If the dark one is sealed up but the taint is still there, then male channelers will still be hunted down before they can go mad and gently caress up the world.
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Aug 22, 2023 06:10
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Yeah, big miss on what night have been at the home stretch of the books there. Imagine if the entire Elayne succession plot was spent on actually fleshing out the black tower, more real cleansing impacts, starting to show more of a shift, etc. We got a few of those scenes but they were just kinda buried under the weight of interminable perrin slogging and Elayne 's parade of morons.
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Aug 22, 2023 06:12
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The forsaken no longer needing the dark one's protection was potentially the most interesting aspect of it but I don't think that went anywhere either right
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Aug 22, 2023 07:16
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Invalid Validation posted:Even male channelers didn’t believe it after it happened cause they were still infected by madness it just didn’t progress past that point. Only wonder girl Nynaeve found a way to heal the madness and nobody really seemed to care after that. It probably should have changed the world more drastically than it did especially if you wanted to write a whole book on its effects. To be fair, the immediate ramifications only effect a few people, relatively speaking. The world will be changed by it more drastically as time goes on, but it's also got the whole Last Battle thing change the world at the same time.
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Aug 22, 2023 09:07
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Just turned a ship the size of the world, and all that. Not every big thing needs big immediate effects, it can be big just for what it was.
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Aug 22, 2023 13:34
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Invalid Validation posted:Even male channelers didn’t believe it after it happened cause they were still infected by madness it just didn’t progress past that point. You're remembering it wrong. Multiple male channelers mention it being clean, but people don't believe them on the assumption that it must be the madness. One of the bonded Aes Sedai admits that she can't find any trace of the taint through the bond, but find saidin so terrifying that she doesn't consider that conclusive.
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Aug 22, 2023 13:45
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