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lol at assuming anyone cares about the apple keynote anymore in tyool 2023
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Sep 13, 2023 14:24
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like i guess the soulless husks of executives still do so they just projected that onto everyone else i remember old old boss (the rich failson one that i've talked about plenty in here) had a copy of stebe's book like, on a display stand in the middle of this otherwise mostly empty shelf his house, so as you went up the stairs you couldn't avoid looking directly at it. it didn't look like it had ever been opened or read or anything, more that it was some kind of altar meant to give good business
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Sep 13, 2023 14:27
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Shame Boy posted:oh i had no idea it was so explicit, that's kinda a bummer lol re: the benchmark thing, i will have a hard time convincing finance we can really sell something unless we have a previous model or market data on a benchmark to show it’s viable. the sales teams will say “i don’t know how to sell this. mark me down for 500 units annual forecast” (500 is basically nothing). etc
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Sep 13, 2023 14:33
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fart simpson posted:re: the benchmark thing, i will have a hard time convincing finance we can really sell something unless we have a previous model or market data on a benchmark to show it’s viable. the sales teams will say “i don’t know how to sell this. mark me down for 500 units annual forecast” (500 is basically nothing). i guess that's something i see in software too (and it's probably universal), definitely a lot of "well here's some numbers [from a competitor / entire industry], clearly we need to do that thing so we can get 100% of those numbers" also i feel like sales' job is literally to sell things and if they don't know how to sell a thing they're not very good at it
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Sep 13, 2023 14:39
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actually that reminds me a lot of this "book" that i only know about cuz the author was on a youtube show i watch: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B09VW3BTDG/ basically he wrote an actual book (a satire of a fictional right wing pundit's autobiography) and hired a PR firm to promote it. the PR firm assigned the most asinine sales guy to it, who didn't bother to read the book, or the increasingly short summaries of the book he was sent, ignored it to work on other books (like the zombie cookbook!!! haha how wacky!), and ultimately just wasted like $3000 of this guy's money, all while sending emails about how FUCKIN' PUMPED!!! he was to GET OUT THERE AND START SELLING SOME BOOKS!!! so to hopefully recoup at least a tiny bit of the costs the author compiled all their correspondence into this book. it's def worth the two bux if you wanna laugh at the deranged mind of a marketing and sales guy
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Sep 13, 2023 14:50
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unity hosed up in many ways, but from a PR standpoint their most severe mistake was confusing the apple event that talks about invisibly incremental iphones and watch poo poo that nobody cares about with the apple event that announces new macs that are either hilariously bad, really good, or often both at the same time literally the only thing of note in yesterday's presentation was usb-c iphones and everyone knew that was coming unity needed apple to reveal that they were making a new mac mini based on risc-v, shaped like a lava lamp, with a $6,000 accessory stand that allows it to follow you around your house
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Sep 13, 2023 14:51
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Shame Boy posted:hey fart simpson i got a question for ya: i've been thinking about how new categories of consumer electronics start out very inventive and experimental but then just kinda settling in to all being slight variations on one standard market-leading thing and becoming kinda boring, like for example smartphones before the iphone all being weird and different vs. a few years after it came out all kinda standardizing into "glass rectangle". have you ever seen that happen like, from the inside? is it a slow process or does the boss just come in one day and go "okay everyone stop all the R&D and design efforts, this other company's thing is selling real big and we're just gonna rip it off now, also half of you are redundant and fired"? I have limited experience in electronics, mostly in mobile apps, but I did see how everyone converged on copying successful stuff in programming and design paradigms. In my experience trends like these happen very similarly to how you describe it. 1) The boss says we gotta copy the [market leader] app, even though it doesn't make sense to do that. 2) The client says they want a [MarketLeader] for [Niche Market], please build it and make it look like [MarketLeader]. (Facebook for Hunters. Tinder for Pets. Patreon for Charities) 3) Your fellow dev (or even myself) says that [MarketLeader] uses a Design paradigm, which is justification for us to start copying them. 4) All of the above, in combination I've dealt with many clients and bosses and they all have Very Strong Ideas about how We Must Do Things, and usually it's just them being impressed by some trend. For example, one of our clients made IOT Device for your home, which we had to build the software for. Their device designs trended towards copying Apple's sleek white look. When we tried to propose our own software design changes they sometimes overrode use with "make it look more like Apple." In this case it was unclear where in this IOT company this sentiment was coming from, so it could have been the boss or others. My CV: In 2014 I was the one dedicated mobile developer at a small startup. The boss called a Very Important Meeting to announce that they are going Mobile First as a company. He forgot to invite me to that meeting. Votskomit fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Sep 13, 2023 |
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Sep 13, 2023 15:17
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Internet Janitor posted:sometimes it can be remarkably effective to take a headcount of the people in a meeting, multiply in average wages, meeting length, and frequency, and ask your boss whether X meeting is actually worth the 10 grand a month (or whatever) it's costing the company The problem is that from the product managers POV it may possibly make their job easier just in case so gently caress literally everyone and everything else.
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Sep 13, 2023 15:37
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a bad product manager is one of the worst hires a company can make because if they suck they have the power to not only make your products worse but also make huge numbers of other people unhappy with their jobs
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Sep 13, 2023 16:04
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every time I start a new job my brain forgets every lived experience i've ever had with a product manager and i dimly look forward to someone who maybe brings a much-needed customer empathy or long-term product vision to the table  but its always always always an obstinate true-believer in idiotic upper management whims who's bravery starts and ends with harassing their peers who do the work while capitulating to everything they can in order to not to get shouted at by anyone above them ever
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Sep 13, 2023 16:07
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i'm sure there are good ones or whatever tho lol
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Sep 13, 2023 16:11
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you dont need a product manager if your product is good. they exist to put bad ideas that management wants into products
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Sep 13, 2023 16:18
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yeah don't get me wrong, a metric of "we had lots of meetings!" is a curse and is square in the box of "we did all this stuff so we're agile!" step 1: lots of meetings step 2: refuse to write anything down because "it's in the stories in the Jira!" step 3; agile! I am seeing the fruits of this literally right now as I watch this project that started way before I joined slam into step 2 when everyone realises they missed 75% of the actual possible cases e: there are lots of meetings
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Sep 13, 2023 16:38
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Shaggar posted:you dont need a product manager if your product is good. they exist to put bad ideas that management wants into products you also don't need developers if your product is already good all they can possibly do is make it worse
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Sep 13, 2023 16:40
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Shame Boy posted:you also don't need developers if your product is already good the actual apex best product is one that does not exist. zero lines of code: the platonic ideal of a modern app
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Sep 13, 2023 16:41
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:I am seeing the fruits of this literally right now as I watch this project that started way before I joined slam into step 2 when everyone realises they missed 75% of the actual possible cases
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Sep 13, 2023 16:41
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qirex posted:this is what a good product manager does, catches all the weird poo poo in the requirements instead of simply being a happy path/minimum viable product "ship it" cheerleader like so many are today this is exactly what I said but because this is 4 months down the line it's already hosed and I don't think it can be un-hosed but I told my boss that there are gonna be some changes once this thing is done because my god e: you hosed it, you can't un-gently caress it.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:44
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Powerful Two-Hander posted:the actual apex best product is one that does not exist.
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Sep 13, 2023 16:46
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qirex posted:this is what a good product manager does, catches all the weird poo poo in the requirements instead of simply being a happy path/minimum viable product "ship it" cheerleader like so many are today
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Sep 13, 2023 16:51
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last place I worked had one week sprints and total of ~9-12 meetings with dev team per week depending on the week lol
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Sep 13, 2023 16:51
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best producttoucher i ever dealt with smoked weed every day outside the back door, had written about a fifth of the product and then decided not to write any more, therefore knew everything about the product and decisively actually knew more than most of us, and would lie in the hammock smoking weed instead of doing meetings he grew his own and it was fuckin dank
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Sep 13, 2023 16:53
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Shaggar posted:you dont need a product manager if your product is good. they exist to put bad ideas that management wants into products good ones also keep the bad ideas that management wants out of products Ahernia posted:the best you're ever likely to get is someone who understands that this is part of doing a good job but they will be saying stuff like "i'm relying on you guys to let me know what makes sense from an engineering perspective" aka making you do it for them a good pm who asks that question wants an answer in the shape of "doing X will take M time but doing Y will take N time," which they then use to minimize the bullshit you have to deal with from people outside of your team
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Sep 13, 2023 17:12
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qirex posted:this is what a good product manager does, catches all the weird poo poo in the requirements instead of simply being a happy path/minimum viable product "ship it" cheerleader like so many are today I have never seen this in my life. Usually it’s the architect who sets out the plan and was smart enough to design it in a way that you fill in all the gaps as you build it out. It’s also important that person does not leave before product launch. I strongly believe this is why products made by 1 or a few people are so good, see most indie mac apps. The architect never left and the product requirements didn’t go through 3 layers of the telephone game. They also always immediately go to poo poo when bought by a bigger company which just enforced my conclusion
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Sep 13, 2023 17:29
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MeruFM posted:I have never seen this in my life. Usually it’s the architect who sets out the plan and was smart enough to design it in a way that you fill in all the gaps as you build it out. at my current place the devs just estimate how many sprints a given story or epic will take and we don't point stuff. current team is un-weildy big for the kind of scrum we're doing so we're about to move to something called "swarms" which sounds really lame and I've already been telling people I'm absolutely not going to attend 4 different daily standups
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Sep 13, 2023 17:53
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Shame Boy posted:maybe, i'm not really asking for why cuz that argument's been done to death, i'm asking if he's got (or anyone else tbh) first-hand experience seeing it from the side of the people making the products, and if it's obvious what's going on or not from that angle "This product works, we need to copy this as best we can but make it distinct enough to not get us sued for patent infringement," a thing I was told when trying to do patent look ups when helping to design a medical device.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:39
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mature companies love to wait for an innovative disruptor to appear then if they get even marginally successful crush them by making a cheaper knockoff with a more famous brand name sonos is one of the few examples this hasn't worked for because they have a bunch of key patents in the area and they make actually good software, which is something no large consumer electronics company has accomplished yet
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Sep 13, 2023 19:31
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qirex posted:they make actually good software, which is something no large consumer electronics company has accomplished yet pff look at this scrub who has never heard of samsung
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Sep 13, 2023 19:40
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4lokos basilisk posted:pff look at this scrub who has never heard of samsung they just license chromecast and airplay despite being the single largest maker of a/v products in the world
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Sep 13, 2023 19:44
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qirex posted:they just license chromecast and airplay despite being the single largest maker of a/v products in the world tizen erasure
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Sep 13, 2023 19:51
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in a well actually posted:tizen erasure they still use that on their tvs?
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Sep 13, 2023 19:53
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in a well actually posted:tizen erasure inshallah
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Sep 13, 2023 19:55
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qirex posted:they still use that on their tvs? yes and I have two of them because I'm an idiot honestly it's "fine", it supports all the streaming services but it has the following problems in order of most to least annoying - it will sometimes flat refuse to connect to WiFi, or more accurately connects but won't show an active connection unless you disable and re-enable it. I ended up using a range extender with an ethernet port instead. also its "test connection" sends your Mac address etc. To Samsung, lol - it constantly attempts to show you its bullshit "Samsung TV" channels and is aggressively bad at re-enabling them. A pihole blocks it's absolute worst bullshit of trying to show you adverts though - I suspect that the os has a memory leak somewhere because you sometimes have to do a full reboot of it else it'll grind to a halt in summary, tizen is probably the least bad part of it and smart TVs all suck
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Sep 13, 2023 19:58
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qirex posted:they just license chromecast and airplay despite being the single largest maker of a/v products in the world just to be clear i obviously failed to make a joke about samsung software being very bad
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Sep 13, 2023 20:11
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4lokos basilisk posted:just to be clear i obviously failed to make a joke about samsung software being very bad don't worry, I assumed it was a piss take it's just funny that apple probably makes more money off their smart home stuff than they do
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Sep 13, 2023 20:15
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qirex posted:don't worry, I assumed it was a piss take it's just funny that apple probably makes more money off their smart home stuff than they do selling shovels to gold miners more profitable than mining gold
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Sep 13, 2023 20:32
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goblin week posted:SV dudes love standing up so much they buy a loving standing desk sure dude also why doctors and nurses and lots of others in the medical field use them for workstations if they aren’t using a laptop or mobile device
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Sep 13, 2023 20:47
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goblin week posted:SV dudes love standing up so much they buy a loving standing desk 
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Sep 13, 2023 21:01
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is it wolf thats the nutjob or klein, i forget
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Sep 13, 2023 21:02
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bob dobbs is dead posted:is it wolf thats the nutjob or klein, i forget if your naomi is klein, you're doing just fine of your naomi is wolf, oh buddy, ooof
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Sep 13, 2023 21:03
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always remember the handy mnemonic if naomi be klein you're doing just fine if naomi be wolf then oof baby oof
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