[BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- so cheesy but so good

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > [BOOK SPOILERS] Robert Jordan's Waste of Time -- so cheesy but so good

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DarkHorse: Dec 13, 2006; Vroom vroom, BEEP BEEP!; Nap Ghost

Joementum posted:

That and people getting naked. Oh, are we about to do some kind of ritual? Gotta be naked for that. Encountering a new culture? Oh, look, they're disrobing.

Just the chicks tho

I think we only see a few cases of male nudity, like Mat being balls out when the dark hounds attack in Rhuidean

Where's that copypasta from another turning when the White Tower is all dudes and Logain is Amyrlin banging his hog on the table to prove he's male?

# ? Sep 14, 2023 17:38

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# ? Jun 4, 2024 22:41

CainFortea: Oct 15, 2004

DarkHorse posted:

Just the chicks tho

I think we only see a few cases of male nudity, like Mat being balls out when the dark hounds attack in Rhuidean

The Aiel too sometimes.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 17:40

Shageletic: Jul 25, 2007

Or the only same sex relationships is woman and woman. Elaida's Keeper in KoD literally refers it as a "phase" if iirc.

Also, is the general theme of KoD or at least the thread connecting all of the plots getting along with the slavers?

# ? Sep 14, 2023 17:47

CuriousSymptoms: Jul 18, 2004; Those Goddamn Rainbows Are At It Again

DarkHorse posted:

Just the chicks tho

I think we only see a few cases of male nudity, like Mat being balls out when the dark hounds attack in Rhuidean

Where's that copypasta from another turning when the White Tower is all dudes and Logain is Amyrlin banging his hog on the table to prove he's male?

I believe there is a story that the actual IRL Pope had to sit on a chair with a hole in it so his zone could be manually inspected for the purposes of confirming that the candidate was a biological (in medieval speak) man, following the ascension of Pope Joan, although apparently this is - like so many batshit rumours - unfortunately a myth. I often wondered, though, if the Aes Sedai getting topless was, if not a parody of this, then at the very least a knowing reversal of roles.

'Duos habet, et bene pendentes.'

# ? Sep 14, 2023 18:17

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

CuriousSymptoms posted:

'Duos habet, et bene pendentes.'

Kind of amusing that the gender of the person is not mentioned. So it could be �she has two of them, and they hang well��which would still have been appropriate for Jordan�s ceremonies in WoT. My Latin isn�t strong enough to know if �duos� necessarily refers to a pair of masculine objects, unfortunately.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 18:40

Nion: Jun 8, 2008

Gwaihir posted:

The stuff with Matt and Tylin was also really bad, but, at least with that bit you can say that there was a purposeful attempt to highlight how poorly sexual assault is typically regarded in terms of disbelieving victims, victim blaming, playing it off as jokes, etc. The execution wasn't good but the intent was there.

Sadly, from what I've seen in interviews, the intent really wasn't there. RJ intended for it to be funny.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 19:24

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

I forget if I've mentioned it, but on watching E1 again, in the meeting we see an Aes Sedai ring with a black stone, and the next time we see Liandrin she is fiddling with her ring, as though checking it's the right one.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 19:29

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

If I was going to join a clandestine evil organization I would probably not bother to acquire visible symbols of my role in that organization (e.g. rings).

# ? Sep 14, 2023 19:31

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

withak posted:

If I was going to join a clandestine evil organization I would probably not bother to acquire visible symbols of my role in that organization (e.g. rings).

It's all about symbols and style

# ? Sep 14, 2023 19:32

NeurosisHead: Jul 22, 2007; NONONONONONONONONO

Gwaihir posted:

I think that particular plotline is just straight up the worst/lowest point of the books. Very minor spoilers, but, it stays bad all the way to the end, including the remnants in Sanderson's books.

The stuff with Matt and Tylin was also really bad, but, at least with that bit you can say that there was a purposeful attempt to highlight how poorly sexual assault is typically regarded in terms of disbelieving victims, victim blaming, playing it off as jokes, etc. The execution wasn't good but the intent was there.

Faile's stuff with Rolan and the brotherless and the entire captivity arc is just bad start to finish.

I appreciate the attempt to look at that plot through a more modern social lens, but I'm pretty confident that RJ never intended anything other than everyone having a good laugh at the idea of a woman inflicting sexual duress on a man. Men of RJ's age raised boys who are now men of my age to believe exactly that. I'm not saying the guy was a sex pest or anything, but I don't think there's any reason to gloss over his more distasteful generational assumptions.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 19:39

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

The Wheel of Time turns, and Arguments come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Arguments that gave it birth comes again. In one Page, called the Six Hundred and Fifty-First Page by some, a Page yet to come, a Page long past, a post rose about the great spectre of Tylin. The Post was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 20:03

ONE YEAR LATER: Apr 13, 2004; Fry old buddy, it's me, Bender!; Oven Wrangler

CuriousSymptoms posted:

He sure did love spanking, huh

Well he was a graduate of The Citadel after all

# ? Sep 14, 2023 20:07

buffalo all day: Mar 13, 2019

Legends have faded to myth, and now comes another extended discussion of RJ�s sick, twisted and downright perverse enjoyment of boobs.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 20:12

ChickenWing: Jul 22, 2010

NeurosisHead posted:

I appreciate the attempt to look at that plot through a more modern social lens, but I'm pretty confident that RJ never intended anything other than everyone having a good laugh at the idea of a woman inflicting sexual duress on a man. Men of RJ's age raised boys who are now men of my age to believe exactly that. I'm not saying the guy was a sex pest or anything, but I don't think there's any reason to gloss over his more distasteful generational assumptions.

I dunno, if you look at the books in cultural context I'd say it makes it even more obvious that RJ was trying to make a bit of a point about womanizing not being so fun when the tables are turned, just because of how attentive the rest of the books are to the male/female power dynamic. Doubly so because his friends are all "ohoho mat is getting a taste of his own medicine", mirroring roughly the reaction you'd be able to expect in that situation around that time

# ? Sep 14, 2023 20:35

silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

Yeah I completely believe that the goal was to show what happens when the tables turn. I've also heard a nice interpretation that a good indicator of "directly removes someone's bodily autonomy or agency" is "died". Tylin, anyone using compulsion, etc.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 20:47

withak: Jan 15, 2003; Fun Shoe

My takeaway on that part was also that we were supposed to have a sensible chuckle at Mat getting a taste of his own objectification medicine.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 21:00

Moonlit Knight: Nov 26, 2018

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

The Wheel of Time turns, and Arguments come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Arguments that gave it birth comes again. In one Page, called the Six Hundred and Fifty-First Page by some, a Page yet to come, a Page long past, a post rose about the great spectre of Tylin. The Post was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

This "it wasn't the beginning, there are no beginnings, it was a beginning" thing has always bothered me. Are there beginnings or aren't there?

# ? Sep 14, 2023 21:42

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

World beyond end. The "a beginning" is the start of this particular story, but it is by no means the beginning of everything.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 21:43

Zore: Sep 21, 2010; willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d�etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

withak posted:

My takeaway on that part was also that we were supposed to have a sensible chuckle at Mat getting a taste of his own objectification medicine.

I thought it was the opposite since you have a whole scene where Nynaeve and Elayne get chewed out by Aviendha about it and apologize to Mat for being lovely. It feels weird that the scene exists and Nynaeve has a whole 'admit she's wrong to Mat and promises to talk to Tylin' moment if we're supposed to find it humorous.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 21:55

silvergoose: Mar 18, 2006; IT IS SAID THE TEARS OF THE BWEENIX CAN HEAL ALL WOUNDS

Moonlit Knight posted:

This "it wasn't the beginning, there are no beginnings, it was a beginning" thing has always bothered me. Are there beginnings or aren't there?

There's no beginning or ending to the wheel of time, but there's beginnings to individual stories along the way.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 22:00

RembrandtQEinstein: Jul 1, 2009; A GOD, A MESSIAH, AN ARCHANGEL, A KING, A PRINCE, AND AN ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE.

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

The Wheel of Time turns, and Arguments come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Arguments that gave it birth comes again. In one Page, called the Six Hundred and Fifty-First Page by some, a Page yet to come, a Page long past, a post rose about the great spectre of Tylin. The Post was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But it was a beginning.

I went back and read through the entire thread when I thought to finally look for it.

RJ sure as heck nailed that everything is cyclical. The same arguments show up, the same refuting points are brought up.

There are also a lot of really cool posts interspersed so, could be worse!

E: my two cents is RJ was trying to make commentary and ran it by Harriet. Both of them thought levity would be better but it didn�t always track.

I still prefer that to Sanderson having Mat wax poetic about her when he kills the Gholam. That bit was all him, and was�not the best.

RembrandtQEinstein fucked around with this message at 22:11 on Sep 14, 2023

# ? Sep 14, 2023 22:09

Comrade Blyatlov: Aug 4, 2007; should have picked four fingers

RembrandtQEinstein posted:

I went back and read through the entire thread when I thought to finally look for it.

RJ sure as heck nailed that everything is cyclical. The same arguments show up, the same refuting points are brought up.

There are also a lot of really cool posts interspersed so, could be worse!

E: my two cents is RJ was trying to make commentary and ran it by Harriet. Both of them thought levity would be better but it didn’t always track.

I still prefer that to Sanderson having Mat wax poetic about her when he kills the Gholam. That bit was all him, and was…not the best.

This is how you get Ishamael, he just wants to end it all so he never has to hear it again

# ? Sep 14, 2023 22:17

RembrandtQEinstein: Jul 1, 2009; A GOD, A MESSIAH, AN ARCHANGEL, A KING, A PRINCE, AND AN ALL TERRAIN VEHICLE.

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

This is how you get Ishamael, he just wants to end it all so he never has to hear it again

That is how I feel, having read all of those posts in a relatively short time and seeing many of the same posters having the same argument when somebody new brings it up.

Break the wheel. End it all.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 23:14

nine-gear crow: Aug 10, 2013

Comrade Blyatlov posted:

I forget if I've mentioned it, but on watching E1 again, in the meeting we see an Aes Sedai ring with a black stone, and the next time we see Liandrin she is fiddling with her ring, as though checking it's the right one.

Liandrin can change the colour of her ring stone. If you go back and watch the cold open to S1E1, the first time she channels, there's a close up on her hand, and the stone in her ring turns from red to black. It happens so fast, you can barely see it, but it's there.

# ? Sep 14, 2023 23:16

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

nine-gear crow posted:

Liandrin can change the colour of her ring stone. If you go back and watch the cold open to S1E1, the first time she channels, there's a close up on her hand, and the stone in her ring turns from red to black. It happens so fast, you can barely see it, but it's there.

which, you know, i love that she cares enough to do that

# ? Sep 14, 2023 23:18

Anias: Jun 3, 2010; It really is a lovely hat

Rarity posted:

If you're looking for bad� in the� books there's Faile�

# ? Sep 14, 2023 23:24

Barreft: Jul 21, 2014

anyways an hour til the show!

# ? Sep 14, 2023 23:54

pik_d: Feb 24, 2006; follow the white dove

TRP Post of the Month October 2021

Barreft posted:

anyways an hour til the show!

In theory, at least!

# ? Sep 14, 2023 23:56

Barreft: Jul 21, 2014

pik_d posted:

In theory, at least!

I saved the .de link so if they pull what they did last week I'll link it again

# ? Sep 15, 2023 00:00

Hughmoris: Apr 21, 2007; Let's go to the abyss!

It sucks the season is already half-way over.

# ? Sep 15, 2023 00:17

Barreft: Jul 21, 2014

Hughmoris posted:

It sucks the season is already half-way over.

Yeah I hate Amazon.

# ? Sep 15, 2023 00:21

Fauxshiz: Jan 3, 2007; Jumbo Sized

Super pumped to see the fallout from the Lanfear stabbening. Please give me more Hopper. Please don't gently caress up Egwene in Falme.

# ? Sep 15, 2023 00:31

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

Fauxshiz posted:

Super pumped to see the fallout from the Lanfear stabbening. Please give me more Hopper. Please don't gently caress up Egwene in Falme.

Pretty sure Falme fucks up Egwene fiercely, with lasting consequences.

# ? Sep 15, 2023 00:32

Barreft: Jul 21, 2014

Goofballs posted:

Legion does the Tel'aran'rhiod stuff perfectly, and the fight scene above would be out of the world for the Falme showdown or the Rahvin fight. When David attacks the Division in the first season is also great at super powerful channeler annihilates no magic soldiers, there's also when he melts that guys brain in Season 3 which is the same as really sucking at compulsion.