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ram dass in hell posted:imagine no more, there are dozens of us in cspam. agriculture was a mistake. having agriculture is a major contributing factor leading to the formation of patriarchy to determine which person stands to inherit the land. no agriculture, know peace. know agriculture, no peace. ftw The question of inheritance wasn't relevant until the scientific principles of reproduction and genetic inherence were discovered by pastoralists. Maybe the Vegans were right?
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Sep 13, 2023 16:43
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Chapter six of "Weaponizing Anthropology" isn't particularly salacious and mostly deals with the fact that the US Army's Counterinsurgency Field Manual, released to much liberal media fanfare in 2006, is riddled with plagiarism, including verbatim lines of text from encyclopedias, answers.com, and various sociology textbooks with no attribution or citation or credit. it's also been a hot minute since I've thought about someone saying "the surge worked"
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Sep 13, 2023 16:52
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it kept us in iraq for another decade so crown it
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Sep 13, 2023 17:16
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I feel there’s something pernicious about the “civilization is fundamentally evil” meme. it’s just 1980s style selfishness dressed up as woke pseudoscience. the only thing it does is justify evil acts.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:22
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Yeah I agree I think it's a way to stifle any vision of a society which has a more harmonious relationship with nature
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Sep 13, 2023 17:23
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Trabisnikof posted:I feel there’s something pernicious about the “civilization is fundamentally evil” meme. it’s just 1980s style selfishness dressed up as woke pseudoscience. the only thing it does is justify evil acts. it's like the phrase "humanity is the virus" or some other such misanthropy, where the real culprit is deliberately obfuscated by pointing instead to an overgeneralization
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Sep 13, 2023 17:26
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Trabisnikof posted:I feel there’s something pernicious about the “civilization is fundamentally evil” meme. it’s just 1980s style selfishness dressed up as woke pseudoscience. the only thing it does is justify evil acts. i don't really blame anyone for it, imagining a world without the capitalist mode of production is really hard when you're living in it. that's part of what made marx so creative and important.
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Sep 13, 2023 17:48
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nah humans and most animals are jerks hth
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Sep 13, 2023 17:48
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I read Two Oxen Ahead and Ancient Food Technology and have concluded that 400-600 AD are a sweet spot, if we can find a substitute for slave labour on larger estates, olive presses etc.
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Sep 13, 2023 18:33
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Trabisnikof posted:I feel there’s something pernicious about the “civilization is fundamentally evil” meme. it’s just 1980s style selfishness dressed up as woke pseudoscience. the only thing it does is justify evil acts. The only way to have no civilization/agriculture or some kind of minarchist imaginary-Old-West wonderland is to have way, way fewer people. Civilization might be evil but killing the vast majority of the world's population to get down to levels required to make hunter gatherer poo poo work globally is way the gently caress more evil. There's no unringing the agriculture bell.
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Sep 13, 2023 20:09
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Frosted Flake posted:I read Two Oxen Ahead and Ancient Food Technology and have concluded that 400-600 AD are a sweet spot, if we can find a substitute for slave labour on larger estates, olive presses etc. there was a major ecological collapse in the 500s following some volcanos that hosed everything up in western europe (more than it already was)
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Sep 13, 2023 20:17
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Anprims are just fascists who get squeamish at the label. They want exactly the same thing; harkening back to an idealised past where people were pure, and the trappings of modern civilisation (like disabled people being able to live) weren’t corrupting the human spirit.
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Sep 13, 2023 22:48
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in re: George Bush meeting with Allen Dulles in 1961, it wouldn't have been surprising. Dulles was the in-house counsel for Brown Brothers Harriman & Co. which you may remember from (among many other awful things between the wars) Averell Harriman being named director of the Mutual Security Agency in September 1951, and creating the Psychological Strategy Board later that year (which would be headed by Gordon Gray, scion of the RJ Reynolds tobacco company). the 1952 victory of Eisenhower made Allen Dulles head of the CIA and his brother John Foster Dulles Secretary of State. (In the mid-50s the H. Smith Richardson Foundation was established, named for the owner of Vick Chemical Company. I leave that as an exercise for the reader.) Poppy Bush was a Navy superstar because somebody waived his flight requirements before he served in WWII. and here are his best friends and family around that time: 
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Sep 14, 2023 00:54
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secret police funded by Vicks vapo-rub
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Sep 14, 2023 01:32
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unfortunately I can't actually find anything during the early 1960s aside from the Zapata Offshore stuff which was an obvious intelligence cutout but you couldn't prove it now they burned the records in the late 1970s in a "warehouse fire."
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Sep 14, 2023 01:52
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mdemone posted:unfortunately I can't actually find anything during the early 1960s aside from the Zapata Offshore stuff which was an obvious intelligence cutout but you couldn't prove it well if there was a real secret it would have come out by now
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Sep 14, 2023 01:53
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poisonpill posted:secret police funded by Vicks vapo-rub Parallel secret government might make a mockery out of democracy, but at least it smells nice!
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Sep 14, 2023 01:57
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mdemone posted:unfortunately I can't actually find anything during the early 1960s aside from the Zapata Offshore stuff which was an obvious intelligence cutout but you couldn't prove it now was it before or after church again?
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Sep 14, 2023 02:21
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poisonpill posted:secret police funded by Vicks vapo-rub maybe it can cure everything
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Sep 14, 2023 05:00
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The Saucer Hovers posted:was it before or after church again? I think it was before but I'll have to look that up.
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Sep 14, 2023 12:03
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Whats Anton LeVays deal? I remember hes come up in the past but i cant search the thread.
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Sep 14, 2023 17:36
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LaVey Satanism is edgelord Ayn Rand, LaVry himself has some potential links to recurring characters, that sort of thing.multistability posted:Michael Aqunio was a psyops guy in Vietnam who shortly after returning to the USA was made a High Priest in the Church of Satan after meeting Anton LaVey (who incidentally "signed his soul away to the devil" in some house on Haight-Ashbury in 1966 at the height of the hippie movement - alarm bells should be going off in ur head at this point). multistability posted:According to CHAOS, Jolly West arrived in Haight-Ashbury in 1966, the very same year LaVey sold his soul away to the devil in that very same neighbourhood. Small world
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Sep 14, 2023 17:41
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Real hurthling! posted:there was a major ecological collapse in the 500s following some volcanos that hosed everything up in western europe (more than it already was) I know it's not this threads thing, but can you rec any books on that? Would be interested to read more.
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Sep 14, 2023 18:16
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Danger - Octopus! posted:I know it's not this threads thing, but can you rec any books on that? Would be interested to read more. Environment and Society in the Long Late Antiquity Environment and Society in the Long Late Antiquity brings together scientific, archaeological and historical evidence on the interplay of social change and environmental phenomena at the end of Antiquity and the dawn of the Middle Ages, covering the period ca. 300-800 AD. It gives a new impetus to the study of the environmental history of this crucial period of transition between two major epochs in premodern history. The volume contains both systematic overviews of the previous scholarship and available data, as well as a number of interdisciplinary case studies. It covers a wide range of topics, including the histories of landscape, climate, disease and earthquakes, all intertwined with social, cultural, economic and political developments.
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Sep 14, 2023 18:19
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FF have you read The Dawn of Everything by graeber and another guy, and if so what did you think
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Sep 14, 2023 21:08
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Just finished Sol Yurick's Metatron. "The dream time is upon us."
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Sep 14, 2023 21:32
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Shear Modulus posted:FF have you read The Dawn of Everything by graeber and another guy, and if so what did you think I have not, I did watch Christman complain about it though. The closest knowledge I have to anthropology is tribal societies in pre-Roman Italy, and then in Mesoamerica and the Andes in the 16th century, both in the context of Conquest/Frontier studies. I know Graeber talks about Tlaxcala, and there has been a lot of interesting research there - it's on my radar because recently some Classicists have suggested more attention be paid to the indigenous polities of the Americas during the Spanish conquest because their interactions in many ways mirror Veii and the other Italic states that elected to support Rome during Roman expansion. As for any of the other stuff about living in harmony with nature or whatever, I have no idea. It's very strange to me than an Ornithologist wrote the most popular and enduring book on anthropology, Graeber providing an alternative to Diamond is worthwhile for that alone. e: I have a copy of The Great Divide by the intellectual historian Peter Watson I've been meaning to read forever.
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Sep 14, 2023 21:32
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whatever happened to that wiki that had 9/11 truther and other conspiracy stuff? I tried googling it but came up with nothing
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Sep 14, 2023 22:34
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redneck nazgul posted:LaVey Satanism is edgelord Ayn Rand, LaVry himself has some potential links to recurring characters, that sort of thing. thanks i had him and Aquino mixed together in my head. New Dawn of Humanity is very fun. FF you as a canadian would like the 1st chapter thats on Indigenous peoples critiques of europeans.
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Sep 14, 2023 22:50
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I’ll check it out. I love Europeans doing weird stuff, like being malnourished in early Colonial Mexico because they believed eating “Indian” food turned you into a native person. There’s a well reviewed book that came out recently on the French’s project to transform North America into France, sort of 17th century terraforming, and of course if we notice the introduced species as out of place at all, we don’t think about the ideology behind it. It was very strange. A Not-So-New World: Empire and Environment in French Colonial North America When Samuel de Champlain founded the colony of Quebec in 1608, he established elaborate gardens where he sowed French seeds he had brought with him and experimented with indigenous plants that he found in nearby fields and forests. Following Champlain's example, fellow colonists nurtured similar gardens through the Saint Lawrence Valley and Great Lakes region. In A Not-So-New World, Christopher Parsons observes how it was that French colonists began to learn about Native environments and claimed a mandate to cultivate vegetation that did not differ all that much from that which they had left behind. As Parsons relates, colonists soon discovered that there were limits to what they could accomplish in their gardens. The strangeness of New France became woefully apparent, for example, when colonists found that they could not make French wine out of American grapes. They attributed the differences they discovered to Native American neglect and believed that the French colonial project would rehabilitate and restore the plant life in the region. However, the more colonists experimented with indigenous species and communicated their findings to the wider French Atlantic world, the more foreign New France appeared to French naturalists and even to the colonists themselves. Parsons demonstrates how the French experience of attempting to improve American environments supported not only the acquisition and incorporation of Native American knowledge but also the development of an emerging botanical science that focused on naming new species. Exploring the moment in which settlers, missionaries, merchants, and administrators believed in their ability to shape the environment to better resemble the country they left behind, A Not-So-New World reveals that French colonial ambitions were fueled by a vision of an ecologically sustainable empire.
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Sep 14, 2023 23:00
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Horizon Burning posted:whatever happened to that wiki that had 9/11 truther and other conspiracy stuff? I tried googling it but came up with nothing Probably History Commons? Went down a while ago and I'm not sure anyone knows why. Somebody backed up their 9/11 timeline on google drive, at least: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1yANtRkU-BaNExTu4QXBf-I2I5CL-3LQe
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Sep 15, 2023 10:47
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the miserable condition of society today is an engineered condition by historical powers to stay in charge and drive development, it is not the totality of humanity's ability to exist on earth, real material scarcity tag teamed with the biological imperative and the opposable thumb to enslave the world, but these conditions can be alleviated at any time by removing the conceptual driving force behind the current dynamics (the phantom idea that scarcity still exists, the actual biggest lie of them all) you don't maintain private property because as a concept it has served its usefulness and has been contorted into an anchor dragging us to our graves you don't reject modernity and return to monke, because choosing to not participate in society is not a revolutionary act, eugenics is fascism, and you don't... just remove millennia of development from the equation, it's an insane proposition for unserious dipshits, where would you even start, where would you end, where would you even get your historical framework for what to "return to" and "undo", and from which global perspective, christ just go die by misadventure on a low stakes hiking trail you weirdos the only way out is through synthesis, the negation of the negation, once the yoke of private property is abolished, once that capacity and space in society is freed up, we will have the resources and path to build a healed, sane society, transforming the contradictions into new drivers of societal development epstein didn't kill himself
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Sep 15, 2023 11:51
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Shut the gently caress up smarxist
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Sep 15, 2023 13:51
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smarxist posted:
There's no need for fancy pants "historical frameworks" or silly concepts like "starting and stopping" those are just sops for fragile human minds to pretend to be able to understand the things that happen to them. There is no "return to monke" because we never left monkey, the entirety of "human civilization as we know it" is less than a punctuation point in the non-existent and metaphorical concept of the history of this planet. Private property doesn't need abolishing because it never existed. Epstein didn't kill himself because there is no self.
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Sep 15, 2023 14:51
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Dokapon Findom posted:Shut the gently caress up smarxist no dont
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Sep 15, 2023 14:55
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its actually very easy, just do a global one child policy and invest whatever rich countries save on raising half a generation(plus some extra for colonial reparations) on education, infrastructure and welfare in poor countries and aim for 4 billion or whatever
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Sep 15, 2023 15:08
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fanfic insert posted:its actually very easy, just do a global one child policy and invest whatever rich countries save on raising half a generation(plus some extra for colonial reparations) on education, infrastructure and welfare in poor countries and aim for 4 billion or whatever why keep people spread out if you have that control? abandon most of the globe to nature and concentrate the smaller pop into more efficient zones for infrastructure
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Sep 15, 2023 15:17
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smarxist posted:epstein didn't kill himself
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Sep 15, 2023 15:37
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Sextro posted:Epstein didn't kill himself because there is no self.
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Sep 15, 2023 15:47
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"Epstein, kill thyself."
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