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Shageletic posted:Inclusion of elements borrowed from the books isn't an automatic emblem of quality. Shageletic posted:invent whole cloth elements, like Laila's introduction So it's actually okay to diverge from the books. Except when they do. While also displaying that you don't know the source material. Because Laila is not invented whole cloth. Fake Edit: Or I suppose you just don't know what "invented whole cloth" means. That's a possibility I suppose. Also the fact that you ignore the primary elements of the post about Nyneave's bullshit in favor of focusing on something that is entirely ancillary is an interesting tidbit.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:10
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DTurtle posted:I edited my post above with some answers, but in short: isn't the paradox that if the dark one is freed in one reality he's freed in all realities, but also if he's imprisoned in one reality he's still imprisoned in every reality?
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Oct 3, 2023 20:11
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That's what Verin tells Egwene yes
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Oct 3, 2023 20:17
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silvergoose posted:That's what Verin tells Egwene yes Thanks, forgot who said it. Found the page: https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Dragon_Reborn/HZlVJVT91nAC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=verin%20paradox&pg=PA188&printsec=frontcover
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Oct 3, 2023 20:17
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The love triangle is a real thing the show tried to set up, just badly. There are scenes in the first episode that point toward it, particularly Nynaeve telling Perrin to go home to his wife during Egwene's celebration and then Layla acting cold toward him and Perrin being defensive. I saw more than one non-reader intuit there might be some kind of history between those 3.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:22
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CainFortea posted:So it's actually okay to diverge from the books. Except when they do. While also displaying that you don't know the source material. Because Laila is not invented whole cloth. Focusing on ancillary things seems to be your trademark. Im not trying to have a contest about who knows the books the most, or angry about the show inventing new plots or characters. It's about how well they're done. Laila's introduction, and quickly conducted murder, in the beginning of the shows plot is a new invention by the show's creators. And its built on one of the hackiest tropes out there. You brought up love triangles are in the books, and my answer was so what? Why does that matter, to anyone, when we're discussing the quality of this show? And regarding Nynaeve's internal machinations obviating that she was not really in a love triangle, again, I feel this is ancillary. Rather than getting stuck in argument about whether or not it existed,the question should be, was Nynaeve's character arc satisfying to watch at all? And I'd say, personally, not at all.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:27
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yeah the show was pretty clearly writing towards a love triangle with that stuff. what they intended with it and where they wanted it to go is pretty hard to discern, but they very obviously did it and left it in the edit. also you don't really need to establish perrin's fears about doing violence to others in episode one if uhhhhh we don't actually need it in episode one. perrin gets plenty of exposure to different ideas about violence and force as part of his journey anyways, from the tinkers to the whitecloaks to the seanchan to aviendha. all that stuff can (and does) build perfectly organically towards his issues. also plenty of people wouldn't want to do violence to others after what happens to the two rivers generally. "we gotta give him a wife and immediately kill her to establish this character trait that will not be relevant in this season" is just sloppy, cheap, and insulting to the audience. like including a wife who exists only to be fridged in episode one and then never referencing her again is leaps and bounds more confusing to people than "this character who is big and strong doesn't like hurting people." it's genuinely stupid. in general the show as a piece on its own (like, just a regular genre tv show trying to tell a story in 8 hours, leaving aside the issue of adaptation wholly) has really struggled with focusing on stuff that matters rather than stuff that doesn't, which is why it's now 15 hours in and can't figure out what to do with or how to characterize like half of its ostensible main cast. imo they should've just made a full adaptational decision to focus in on moiraine, nynaeve, and egwene. put rand/mat/perrin intentionally out of focus, make that a creative choice. the show is much more lively when dealing with the aes sedai and the tower and seems greatly confused and drags whenever it has to do anything else; it would've been way easier to just not worry about anything else and let it be a show about how this institution responds to the dragon reborn. Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 20:30
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Anyone have any takes about the sad warder??? Simply can’t get enough rehashing the same dumb poo poo that had me quit reading this thread 2 years ago.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:32
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Pleads posted:Perrin and Aviendha accomplished very little but at least they introduced toh and hand talk, I guess. I did always think of hand talk as smaller gestures that could be done with one hand, but I guess that'd be harder to show in a tv series. And yeah that moment with Lan and Rand in front of the guards was hilarious.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:53
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Stepin? More like Step off this mortal coil because you’re so sad you little baby.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:55
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buffalo all day posted:Anyone have any takes about the sad warder??? Simply can’t get enough rehashing the same dumb poo poo that had me quit reading this thread 2 years ago. Sure, season 2's sad warder plotline was also bad and had an underwhelming payoff this past episode.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:55
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Shageletic posted:We're at the end of two seasons here, and I still can't think of a standout scene or moment. Plenty of standout scenes and moments exist.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:56
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El Grillo posted:Man I was trying to figure out what was up with the maiden hand talk. For some reason it hadn't clicked... what they're showing isn't hand talk lol. That's why it looks so clunk and is so slow. What a weird choice. They are done with one hand, the language consultants specifically wanted it to be one handed so it can be done with a weapon in the other hand
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Oct 3, 2023 21:01
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arteliad posted:The love triangle is a real thing the show tried to set up, just badly. There are scenes in the first episode that point toward it, particularly Nynaeve telling Perrin to go home to his wife during Egwene's celebration and then Layla acting cold toward him and Perrin being defensive. I saw more than one non-reader intuit there might be some kind of history between those 3. Yes, Nyneave has always been like this. If it's a whole thing the show is trying to set up...where is it? It came up at the end, then like one or two scenes later Egwene and Rand have a talk where they dismiss it as an issue, and then it never comes up again. At all. Shageletic posted:You brought up love triangles are in the books, and my answer was so what? Why does that matter, to anyone, when we're discussing the quality of this show? I did not bring them up. As usual, your reading comprehension needs work.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:09
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This show is not good enough to need people to be so hostile defending it in the freaking chill rear end book barn of all places.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:13
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socialsecurity posted:This show is not good enough to need people to be so hostile defending it in the freaking chill rear end book barn of all places. You are not the only calm person the internet. There is not only one drive to shitpost at people.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:15
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Shageletic posted:We're at the end of two seasons here, and I still can't think of a standout scene or moment. Literally any scene with Lanfear.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:16
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CainFortea posted:If it's a whole thing the show is trying to set up...where is it? It came up at the end, then like one or two scenes later Egwene and Rand have a talk where they dismiss it as an issue, and then it never comes up again. At all. It's right there in what you just described lol. It's a subplot they set up multiple times in episode 1 and pay off in episode 6 or 7 or whichever. Why? Couldn't tell you. But the scenes and dialogue you identified in this post literally exist purely to convey this subplot, have a (bad, stilted) narrative arc, and they are in the edit. It is indeed a whole thing the show came up with and put in.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:19
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socialsecurity posted:This show is not good enough to need people to be so hostile defending it in the freaking chill rear end book barn of all places. The books aren't good enough to need people attacking the show, but I wouldn't expect people posting in an 11 year old thread to understand that.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:19
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Do people really think the show wasn't setting up for a love triangle deal? I don't expect Perrin and Egwene to actually get together but Machin Shin uses that as its angle on Perrin. It's clear enough that it would be funny if they just abandoned it and never brought it up again.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:23
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thrawn527 posted:Literally any scene with Lanfear.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:32
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socialsecurity posted:This show is not good enough to need people to be so hostile defending it in the freaking chill rear end book barn of all places. Pretty much this. I was critiquing the faceless Amazon vp, not the writers. Writers/Rafe/acting-talent/crew all seem to be trying hard. Amazon prime video execs who seem to have pushed for weirdness are likely going to bin the show b/c Nielsen, never once wondering why the book readers are kinda meh. Anias fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 21:32
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Nihilarian posted:Do people really think the show wasn't setting up for a love triangle deal? I don't expect Perrin and Egwene to actually get together but Machin Shin uses that as its angle on Perrin. It's clear enough that it would be funny if they just abandoned it and never brought it up again. For there to be a love triangle it has to actually exist in the hearts and minds of people involved. So far the people who say there's a triangle are when Nyneave was being a martinet, Nyneave being lovely, and a metaphysical force of darkness that was wrong about a bunch of the other things it said.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:37
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All book readers know the real love triangle is between Perrin, Elayas and Hopper. I figure it will come back in the show where Ishy will give Perrin a choice between getting his wife back and saving Egwene and that will lead to another season of Perrin pouting.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:43
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Anias posted:Pretty much this. vvvvv Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, the Nielsen ratings so far aren't all that bad *for amazon*, because Amazon is the smallest streaming service and all their shows underperform due to most people not having Prime. It's not doing as well as it did first season but viewership seems to be improving and it's comparable with other hit shows. Also Nielsen is US only, while Wheel of Time is very big internationally. DTurtle fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 3, 2023 |
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Oct 3, 2023 21:46
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Yeah, the Nielsen ratings so far aren't all that bad *for amazon*, because Amazon is the smallest streaming service and all their shows underperform due to most people not having Prime. It's not doing as well as it did first season but viewership seems to be improving and it's comparable with other hit shows.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:48
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah, the Nielsen ratings so far aren't all that bad *for amazon*, because Amazon is the smallest streaming service and all their shows underperform due to most people not having Prime. It's not doing as well as it did first season but viewership seems to be improving and it's comparable with other hit shows. How does Nielsen even do streaming ratings? Did they move on past using a bunch of old people to extrapolate viewerships?
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Oct 3, 2023 21:54
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El Grillo posted:Man I was trying to figure out what was up with the maiden hand talk. For some reason it hadn't clicked... what they're showing isn't hand talk lol. That's why it looks so clunk and is so slow. What a weird choice. Found this cool video on hand talk, which I didn't realize was probably based off Native American Tribes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1-StAlw3aE CainFortea posted:Yes, Nyneave has always been like this. If it's a whole thing the show is trying to set up...where is it? It came up at the end, then like one or two scenes later Egwene and Rand have a talk where they dismiss it as an issue, and then it never comes up again. At all. You literally brought up love triangles being in the books. "Books got more triangles than Pythagoras"? And my question remains, so what? You're addressing criticisms that no one is making.
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Oct 3, 2023 21:59
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Shageletic posted:You literally brought up love triangles being in the books. No, I literally did not. Zore posted:And then fumble it massively by immediately fridging her and giving Perrin the godawful love triangle poo poo with Egwene and Rand as his Season 1 plot I don't know how to help you understand this more, but I am not Zore.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:02
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My wife refuses to read the books and doesn't want me talking to her about them, but she is sucked into the show and keeps asking me questions that I dance around like an Aes Sedai to avoid spoiling some cool reveals. She knew in season 1 that Rand was the dragon and that I dislike book Egwene and Elayne, so she is confused about how much I seem to love the show versions. Seriously Elayne and Egwene's actors are knocking it out of the park. Also she knows that Nynaeve and Mat eventually rule and are my 2 favorite characters but she is confused because Mat has done gently caress all. She was asking me why I loudly gasped at a scene with Mat gambling and I'm like... idk no reason. I'm just really hyped to see any bit of reality about this franchise. Just a little rambling but I am a book reader who also likes the show sorry
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Oct 3, 2023 22:02
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DTurtle posted:From what I’ve seen, basically all non-book readers and the vast majority of book readers like season 2 a lot. Where are you seeing this? Seems the majority of ppl here have some serious criticisms with the show?
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Oct 3, 2023 22:03
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Shageletic posted:Where are you seeing this? Seems the majority of ppl here have some serious criticisms with the show? You can criticize a show and also enjoy it
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Oct 3, 2023 22:05
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CainFortea posted:No, I literally did not. CainFortea posted:And finally a hearty lol at people complaining about how dare there be a love triangle in the wheel of time. Books got more triangles than Pythagoras I feel like we're talking past each other here. You brought up love triangles existing in the books. Tell me what I'm not seeing here.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:06
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Shageletic posted:Where are you seeing this? Seems the majority of ppl here have some serious criticisms with the show?
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Oct 3, 2023 22:07
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The show isn't very good. Woops time to get canceled.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:08
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RC Cola posted:You can criticize a show and also enjoy it Good point. I felt like the suggestion was that included having any negative impressions.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:10
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Shageletic posted:Where are you seeing this? Seems the majority of ppl here have some serious criticisms with the show? I see some "it is better than season 1" comments which is not exactly a ringing endorsement. We're about to watch the season 2 finale. If the show hasn't found its stride by now, it won't.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:10
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I like a lot of things about the current season. I think it's hard to argue it didn't find a strong voice several times this season, especially episode 6. I also felt Season 1 peaked with the 6th episode, though. We'll see how the finale goes.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:30
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CainFortea posted:How does Nielsen even do streaming ratings? Did they move on past using a bunch of old people to extrapolate viewerships? No one knows. Some people pretend to know, but they don't. Even the streaming people don't. I don't think the Nielsen people know. Shageletic posted:Where are you seeing this? Seems the majority of ppl here have some serious criticisms with the show? Wait, I skipped a bunch of pages, but did the thread turn against the show? I thought people were on board for season 2. Season 1 obviously had massive issues, but season 2 solved basically all of them, in my view. I'm all in. Hughmoris posted:I see some "it is better than season 1" comments which is not exactly a ringing endorsement. Okay, apparently I missed a lot.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:32
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Shageletic posted:I feel like we're talking past each other here. You brought up love triangles existing in the books. Tell me what I'm not seeing here. I would guess the part you're not seeing here is literally any of my posts except for the specific slices of it you want to argue with. I'll try to break this down one more time. I said the writers have shown they understand the books better than most people complaining about the show. Zore brought up the love triangle in the show. I pointed out that believing there is a love triangle in the show (and ignoring that it's in Nyneave's character to stir poo poo) is evidence of my point. You ask me why i'm bringing up love triangles.
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Oct 3, 2023 22:34
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