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Shard posted:Was fight song by marilyn manson used as a video package in a wwf ppv because I would have swore it was but can't think of which one it might be this is wrestling questions that DON'T deserve their own thread
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Oct 2, 2023 22:36
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When did finishers become a thing? Did wrestlers in the 40s or whenever have established match-ending moves or did they just win with anything?
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Oct 2, 2023 23:22
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Taffy Torpedo posted:When did finishers become a thing? Did wrestlers in the 40s or whenever have established match-ending moves or did they just win with anything? there were no finishes that were clean enough to establish finishers until 1979. The three count being invented in 1975 to replace the double count out and double dq started that fad. Little know fact
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Oct 3, 2023 00:07
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So how did people win matches before then? Was it all submission or was it the 1 count like in amateur wrestling?
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Oct 3, 2023 04:28
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the first finisher i can recall getting popularized was in 1919, and it was the one winged angel
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Oct 3, 2023 05:44
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ChrisBTY posted:So how did people win matches before then? Was it all submission or was it the 1 count like in amateur wrestling? In classic catch wrestling, the object was literally just to throw your opponent down to the mat, and resist them trying to do the same to you. I did a deep dive on this once, and found a bunch of advertisements for matches rather than full cards, because the matches were ungodly long with stipulations like "can X wrestler throw Y wrestler down 10 times in three hours!?"
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Oct 3, 2023 08:59
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to actually answer their question, ed lewis is commonly credited as the first wrestler to have a regular finisher with his version of a sleeper hold. but yeah through the most part up until the mid to late 70s and even commonly through the 80s matches typically ended on whatever was believable for the time tho some wrestlers did have their signatures that they relied on like bruno's bearhug or body slam
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Oct 3, 2023 09:02
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So Bruno would just body slam Gorilla Monsoon and call it a day?
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Oct 3, 2023 09:32
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Sandman McMahon posted:Whatever happened to Blue Kane? That guy was cool I saw him wrestle just a few weeks ago in the UK for GCW!
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Oct 3, 2023 12:01
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ChrisBTY posted:So Bruno would just body slam Gorilla Monsoon and call it a day? Perhaps SL was making a joke about how back in the day promotions (especially but not exclusively WWWF) would prolong feuds by having a lot of count-outs/time limit draws/DQs to allow for rematches? Or perhaps it's just 
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Oct 3, 2023 12:15
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ChrisBTY posted:So how did people win matches before then? Was it all submission or was it the 1 count like in amateur wrestling? There is a pool of match ending moves everyone can use. Big dropkick, suplex, certain submissions things like that. Certain wrestlers had signature moves like billy robinson had the butterfly suplex, Bruno the bear hug, but it was not something every wrestler had until you had lots of pin fall finishes.
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Oct 3, 2023 13:30
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who needs finishers when you can get a pin fall off this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7eLa7jtPeY&t=758s
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Oct 3, 2023 13:37
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they call it a high risk move for a reason
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Oct 3, 2023 13:40
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if you are curious check out a few matchs from the 50s https://www.youtube.com/@chicagofilmarchivespresent1774 I think they are much more watchable than most stuff from the 60s/70s.
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Oct 3, 2023 14:00
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Taffy Torpedo posted:When did finishers become a thing? Did wrestlers in the 40s or whenever have established match-ending moves or did they just win with anything? The style that the Gold Dust Trio promoted made recognizable big moves a lot more important, but most guys didn't have unique finishes that they were known for. From the 40s through the 70s there were guys who made it part of their gimmick, but most didn't. In the 70s it became more important to be known for some signature moves, and the 80s boom made it pretty much a necessary part of your gimmick if you weren't a jobber. But even then, there wasn't this idea that you always have to win a match with your finisher. Now all WWE main event wrestlers need multiple finishers so that they can win any type of gimmick match against any wrestler with one of their finishers, or a roll-up.
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Oct 3, 2023 16:06
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Edge & Christian posted:That was the original concept behind "escape the cage" matches, that you'd have to beat your opponent so thoroughly you could saunter out of the cage unhindered. That sort of evolved into Last Man Standing/Texas Death matches. But also pinning your opponent's shoulders to the mat and having a referee count to three is both something borrowed from forms of legitimate wrestling and also something that has been going on in fixed professional matches for about one hundred years, and if you search for a random Bruno match in the 1960s (or random matches filmed for newsreels in the 1930s) they ended with pinfalls and three counts. I didn't know. I didn't assume because he wasn't Cavuaro.
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Oct 3, 2023 20:26
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Somewhere in ancient text or hieroglyphics is someone doing a Burning Hammer and we just haven't found it yet
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Oct 3, 2023 21:42
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I remember reading that Flair had heat with some of those who came before him because when he'd go over clean, his finishing sequence was suplex, kneedrop, figure four. Well, Harley Race used to used a basic suplex as a finish sometimes, and Brody used a running kneedrop, so I guess people thought he was the periods equivalent of a spot guy, which is insane with hindsight
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Oct 4, 2023 02:19
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El Gallinero Gros posted:I remember reading that Flair had heat with some of those who came before him because when he'd go over clean, his finishing sequence was suplex, kneedrop, figure four. Well, Harley Race used to used a basic suplex as a finish sometimes, and Brody used a running kneedrop, so I guess people thought he was the periods equivalent of a spot guy, which is insane with hindsight Karl Gotch in 1990: quote:WON: One of the things Larry Malenko told me and I don't mean necessarily Billington or Satoru Sayama is that a lot of wrestlers nowadays look like a trampoline act.
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Oct 4, 2023 03:16
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did Gotch ever directly work with UWFi and/or RINGS to train folks or is this just an old man yelling at a cloud
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Oct 4, 2023 09:40
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Harley Race, killing the business
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Oct 4, 2023 09:47
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Venomous posted:did Gotch ever directly work with UWFi and/or RINGS to train folks or is this just an old man yelling at a cloud I know he worked with original UWF, don't think be was involved with UWFI though. But he did have guys involved in UWFI as well as Pancrase & Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi and so while there's definitely an element of old man yells at clouds, he also would be showing support for his disciples. But yeah, Harley Race as the Bucks of his day is such an all-time grumpy old fart line
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Oct 4, 2023 10:28
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Harley Race's term for too many big spots all at once was "popcorn."
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Oct 4, 2023 14:52
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haunted bong posted:Harley Race, killing the business Harley Race offered thousands of dollars for somebody else to kill the business. ...KABUKI!
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Oct 4, 2023 15:02
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I'll take any answers I can get here: who had the first fantastical gimmick? Who were the first wrestlers to wear masks or face paint? (let's not count racial cosplay since I can only assume there's some awful blackface or redface characters)
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Oct 6, 2023 20:41
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I'll take any answers I can get here: who had the first fantastical gimmick? Who were the first wrestlers to wear masks or face paint? (let's not count racial cosplay since I can only assume there's some awful blackface or redface characters) First masked wrestler I've heard of is The Masked Marvel (Mort Henderson) who appeared out of nowhere at the International Tournament at the now Hammerstein Ballroom in 1915. The gimmick was suggested by a promoter who had toured with a masked opera singer.
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Oct 6, 2023 20:46
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Mask gimmicks go back to the Parisian troupes of the mid-19th century, though they really exploded in the 20s and 30s after the Masked Marvel. Kinda hard to draw a line on "fantastical" gimmicks. Mysterious foreigners with borderline-mystical powers go back a long way.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:20
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Halloween Jack posted:Mask gimmicks go back to the Parisian troupes of the mid-19th century, though they really exploded in the 20s and 30s after the Masked Marvel. Oh wait how did I forget there were masked wrestlers in Paris in the 1840s peaking in the 1860s with The Masked Man who was internationally known. I've probably posted about him in this thread too.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:24
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The first wrestler with superhuman powers was Abraham Lincoln. He held the Union together with his mighty thews.
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Oct 6, 2023 21:28
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how did masks become so central to lucha? I've always assumed it was because of el santo's influence or something but I don't know if it was already an established thing by the time he became the megastar that he was
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Oct 6, 2023 21:58
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Was cm punk actually ever considered the best wrestler in the world?
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Oct 7, 2023 00:25
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Shard posted:Was cm punk actually ever considered the best wrestler in the world? no. his peak for match quality would have probably been between the end of 2003 and mid 2005, by which point kenta kobashi was blowing everyone out of the water with his GHC Heavyweight Title run as well as dragon gate finally popping off and having insane ciberneticos on the regular thanks to the Blood Generation and Do Fixer feud.
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Oct 7, 2023 00:29
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It was always, to most, Bryan Danielson, but when he became "Best In The World" I would argue he was the hottest act in wrestling period, and he was always incredible at putting matches together and great on the mic. So y'know, subjective measures on what you'd consider that phrase to mean. The "pipebomb" promo and run into and out of MITB 2011 is still pretty incredible.
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Oct 7, 2023 00:29
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Visual Basic Bitch posted:how did masks become so central to lucha? I've always assumed it was because of el santo's influence or something but I don't know if it was already an established thing by the time he became the megastar that he was It's because of aztec tradition, apparently that's one of the few things not kayfabed by lucha presented in the US
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Oct 7, 2023 00:30
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i dunno how hot it was, it only did about 20k more buys than the prior ppv headlined by john cena vs r-truth. it did help punk sell a lot more merchandise but they completely fumbled/sabotaged any momentum he had built up during the build and ppv did afterwards.
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Oct 7, 2023 00:33
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STONE COLD 64 posted:no. his peak for match quality would have probably been between the end of 2003 and mid 2005, by which point kenta kobashi was blowing everyone out of the water with his GHC Heavyweight Title run as well as dragon gate finally popping off and having insane ciberneticos on the regular thanks to the Blood Generation and Do Fixer feud. I think his peak match quality was actually 2021 - 2022. His matches were not that good in 2003 and he was obviously good in 2005 but he spent half the year in OVW where like, he was good but not doing mind blowing stuff. But the answer is no, Bryan Danielson was the best in the world and that's pretty much why Punk got that moniker in WWE.
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Oct 7, 2023 00:33
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STONE COLD 64 posted:no. his peak for match quality would have probably been between the end of 2003 and mid 2005, by which point kenta kobashi was blowing everyone out of the water with his GHC Heavyweight Title run as well as dragon gate finally popping off and having insane ciberneticos on the regular thanks to the Blood Generation and Do Fixer feud. Plus, like, when Punk's WWE title win and "I'm the best, so I am!" push happened, Tanahashi and Nakamura were in the process of rebuilding New Japan, and Okada would be in the mix a year or two later.
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Oct 7, 2023 00:34
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MassRafTer posted:I think his peak match quality was actually 2021 - 2022. His matches were not that good in 2003 and he was obviously good in 2005 but he spent half the year in OVW where like, he was good but not doing mind blowing stuff. i guess thats true, his aew stuff became a weird blind spot for me i think due to how recent the run was. the mjf dog collar match was great as were his matches with darby and eddie, i missed out on the 2022 moxley match though.
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Oct 7, 2023 00:36
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Oh yeah no question they fumbled absolutely everything after he started actually using the Best In The World moniker but there was that brief shining flash where it almost felt plausible. And then Kevin Nash showed up.
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Oct 7, 2023 00:40
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Here's another one - with hindsight what is the general consensus about Daniel Bryan and Edge retiring but then being able to wrestle later?Were the injuries overblown, did they just need enough time to heal, is it all smoke and mirrors or did medical procedures get better? Or a little bit of everything?
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Oct 7, 2023 00:49
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