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KilGrey posted:One thing I most definitely missed while watching…how was the bond broken between her and Lan? She obviously wasn’t stilled and shielding someone doesn’t break the bond. I thought removing the shield would bring the bond back? Or that she was deliberately masking the bond like Alanna and her one warder. I know in the books they don’t know how to remove a bond once it’s been done until the end of the series. Yea, they've explicitly changed it so that masking/unmasking is a weave. No mental hankerchiefs. Also, yea it's the second paragraph. People inventing reasons why things don't work that are explicitly portrayed differently on screen get really lovely when you just say "No that's wrong".
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Oct 8, 2023 19:24
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DTurtle posted:As we saw in this episode, unmasking the bond (and probably masking as well) require channeling. Moiraine masked the bond at the end of season 1 so that she could sneak out with Rand without Lan interfering. She was then shielded and therefore couldn't unmask the bond. eke out posted:yeah it was like "she was masking the bond, got shielded, and couldn't undo it" or something along those lines. then when she got un-shielded, she kept it that way because she'd basically broken up with lan lol CainFortea posted:Yea, they've explicitly changed it so that masking/unmasking is a weave. No mental hankerchiefs. That makes sense. I forgot she did that in season 1. I took the beach scene as her bonding him again. So it was just her unmaking. Thank you! KilGrey fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Oct 8, 2023 |
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Oct 8, 2023 19:36
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The bond unmasking change does also mean that Alanna only has one functioning Warder any time she ends up in combat without some prep time.
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Oct 8, 2023 20:09
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Nion posted:The bond unmasking change does also mean that Alanna only has one functioning Warder any time she ends up in combat without some prep time. She's probably a lot faster at it than Moiraine, since she probably does it more often. They were also basically re-affirming their platonic marriage vows so they went a bit extra on the beach.
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Oct 8, 2023 20:50
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The simple fact is that corny poo poo is awesome when portrayed with conviction.
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Oct 8, 2023 22:44
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Oct 9, 2023 00:07
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Bongo Bill posted:The simple fact is that corny poo poo is awesome when portrayed with conviction.  
Barreft fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 00:11
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I do love that they’re letting the actors playing the forsaken just ham it up on screen and act like the nutty super villains they are.
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Oct 9, 2023 00:18
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Bongo Bill posted:The simple fact is that corny poo poo is awesome when portrayed with conviction. See also: Pacific Rim
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Oct 9, 2023 00:20
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Joementum posted:I do love that they’re letting the actors playing the forsaken just ham it up on screen and act like the nutty super villains they are. They know what we're here for. Sucks that Josha can't act but hey
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Oct 9, 2023 00:33
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Barreft posted:They know what we're here for. I thought that Nynaeve’s actress was the weak link in the finale. Was pleased with Rand’s performance.
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Oct 9, 2023 02:35
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Grundulum posted:I thought that Nynaeve’s actress was the weak link in the finale. Was pleased with Rand’s performance. Which is wild, because she was one of the highlights in the first half of the season. Meanwhile Egwene's actress didn't get much in the first half, but then just crushed in the second half. Kind of like the books I guess! "Oh Egwene hasn't done anything for awhile? Well, I'm sure she'll get to do a lot in...300 pages."
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Oct 9, 2023 03:48
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I think that Nyneave's actress was doing it fine, she just didn't have any big moments compared to everyone else. Her moments were a lot more introspective and personal growth type things.
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Oct 9, 2023 04:01
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Show Moggy struck me as just very scandy crime drama. The girl with the dark one tattoo. Lisbeth might have done an actual trap though. Sitting in a room like an rear end in a top hat waiting for the person you want to walk through the door would to come through the door wouldn't be a Lisbeth move. What if Rand, Nynaeve and Moiraine walk through the door or any combination of 13 female channelers who are floating around.
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Oct 9, 2023 04:29
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Nynaeve is at the downturn of her arc. She's not having a good time and didn't gonna get to be badass for a bit. Not the actress's fault.
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Oct 9, 2023 04:35
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CainFortea posted:I think that Nyneave's actress was doing it fine, she just didn't have any big moments compared to everyone else. Her moments were a lot more introspective and personal growth type things. I felt she was having her ‘come to Jesus’ moment of oh poo poo, this poo poo is for real. She can only cover up her feelings with stubbornness for so long. I know people think she should have been super rage and channel bombing everything in a 2 mile radius, but I feel like the actress conveyed that Nyneave was straight loving terrified in those moments. A few episodes back she was in the arches in the middle of a battle watching her loved ones die too. Egwene isn’t the only one with some PTSD poo poo. She needs to channel right now and she can’t which adds to the terror. Elayne had to ground her with walking through how to be a wisdom before she snapped out of it.
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Oct 9, 2023 04:36
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KilGrey posted:I felt she was having her ‘come to Jesus’ moment of oh poo poo, this poo poo is for real. She can only cover up her feelings with stubbornness for so long. I know people think she should have been super rage and channel bombing everything in a 2 mile radius, but I feel like the actress conveyed that Nyneave was straight loving terrified in those moments. A few episodes back she was in the arches in the middle of a battle watching her loved ones die too. Egwene isn’t the only one with some PTSD poo poo. She needs to channel right now and she can’t which adds to the terror. Elayne had to ground her with walking through how to be a wisdom before she snapped out of it. On top of that, she's dressed as a person she loving hates and also just tortured someone. She's probably feeling quite out of sorts with her own self identity. And her normal reaction of Just Be More Stubborn hasn't been working.
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Oct 9, 2023 04:41
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The other thing too is that she had just felt a person die through the a'dam. Lots of trauma in a very short period.
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Oct 9, 2023 04:48
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Nion posted:And then one of the women hurls the nearest heavy object into the face of the other woman. It makes a loud thud, followed by a bunch more noise as the object, and the woman, falls to the floor. The janitor quietly but swiftly backs away through the nearest door. That would need a humorous scene. The closest we've gotten to in the show was Mat asking if it was a murder thing. WoT spends about as much time humanizing characters by having them in funny situations as super dramatic ones. Those connective tissue, allows the plot to breathe and make the points when things jump off hit even harder.
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Oct 9, 2023 05:32
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Speaking of Nynaeve, my kids were watching some random Power Rangers today and I definitely spent 5 minutes squinting at the White ranger with the TERRIBLE American accent before I realized it was her actress! Glad she’s gotten better at those even though I can still sometimes hear the Kiwi break through in WoT.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:19
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Nynaeve was also given absolute poo poo-all to do for like 40 minutes of that finale. How many times did they cut back to the wonder girls and they were still just kneeling on the ground after Elayne took the crossbow to the leg? I think it was at least 2 scenes of them sitting there doing nothing before Nynaeve pushed it through (lol) and then they limped off towards the tower. One of my biggest pacing notes with the finale was that the conflicts kicked off far too early, and then just dragged on around the rest of the story. Falme never felt big enough (and the Seanchan presence felt far too powerful) for the scale of fighting they kept depicting after the Whitecloaks attacked, and the showdown on the towertop felt like Ishy throwing magic missiles against Egwene's shield for far longer than she should have been able to hold out in her condition/vs his power.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:49
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I definitely think Nynaeve's role would have been better if they kept her anger block and she just berated Elayne for not having crossbow resistant flesh until she got pissed enough to instantly heal it better than any Aes Sedai could do. Better than just cutting to her looking anguished 63 times.
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Oct 9, 2023 06:56
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I used to be a princess until I took an arrow to the knee
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Oct 9, 2023 07:21
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I think they're going for something more meaningful than just being mad. It's not like it really changes anything, she will be able to channel when the story demands it either way. I think they could have cut one of those nyneave/elayne bits and maybe a few shortened scenes elsewhere to still give us Ingtar's darkfriend redemption.
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Oct 9, 2023 07:29
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Devorum posted:I definitely think Nynaeve's role would have been better if they kept her anger block and she just berated Elayne for not having crossbow resistant flesh until she got pissed enough to instantly heal it better than any Aes Sedai could do. Nynaeve's entire arc in this season was "No one should have this power." Not letting her have a simple psychological trick to turn it on and in turn having her subconscious decision not to use her channeling lead to actual consequences was a good idea and will make her change of tune toward actually wanting to be Aes Sedai much more natural. It could have been executed better though.
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Oct 9, 2023 09:06
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Sanguinia posted:Nynaeve's entire arc in this season was "No one should have this power." Not letting her have a simple psychological trick to turn it on and in turn having her subconscious decision not to use her channeling lead to actual consequences was a good idea and will make her change of tune toward actually wanting to be Aes Sedai much more natural. It could have been executed better though. Sure, but the reasoning honestly seems silly when she's staring at a crossbow bolt sticking out of a friend's leg and they need to save another friend and also she's supposed to be a healer in general. Yes, it's good that she sees there's consequences...but not that she kept letting the consequences pile up and just sat there watching with an anguished expression. It was turned into something of a farce and I think that having a psychological trick would have been better than what we got. Hell, they already gave her a psychological trick that she's used multiple times. At the end of the day, we got what we got, though.
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Oct 9, 2023 10:25
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Pleads posted:the showdown on the towertop felt like Ishy throwing magic missiles against Egwene's shield for far longer than she should have been able to hold out in her condition/vs his power. An easy fix would have been Ishy just toying with Egwene instead of struggling. It might have undercut Egwene a bit but she'd still be heroic and powerful and courageous Ishamael could even have been amused when Perrin showed up and called out to Rand "you could stop this, you know" because his goal still is turning him to the Dark at this point
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Oct 9, 2023 15:01
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poo poo, Gathering Storm is so good. The freaking prologue is the most exciting and impactful chapter in many a book. The Prophet went out quickly and perfunctory, and it felt perfect. E: also love the focus on ordinary people.
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Oct 9, 2023 15:08
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funniest part of the finale was when the "dragon banner" was raised and they clearly gave the extras the direction to "cheer" and it looked like they were cheering for a firefighter in a network procedural.
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Oct 9, 2023 18:34
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DarkHorse posted:An easy fix would have been Ishy just toying with Egwene instead of struggling. It might have undercut Egwene a bit but she'd still be heroic and powerful and courageous I would have liked to see Egwene link with Nynaeve, she still would have felt like poo poo about being used like a battery for a second time but would have had some role in the episode. Altho in the scope of the show Mat didn't really accomplish much either besides stab Rand with the dagger. I guess he indirectly saved Perrin and got the magic shield to him via Uno. Could charitably assume that those seanchan hanging out on the roof might have tipped the scales without the heroes too? In other news, I got another friend into the show! We were looking for something to watch on a lazy Sunday and I suggested it since I was interested in seeing season one again anyway. We got through the first five episodes in a marathon and she's excited to watch the rest. Seeing them again with some distance from my initial watch, I liked them a bit more too. Also shockingly my mom loves the TV show, she's always enjoyed fantasy but she gets annoyed by grim and backstabby shows like GoT. She's also really interested in religion and spirituality so a lot of the more philosophical stuff in WoT resonates with her. She started in on the Rosamund Pike audiobook today which I will be even more shocked if she gets through but is still something I never would have imagined in a million years haha
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Oct 9, 2023 20:08
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Chomposaur posted:Could charitably assume that those seanchan hanging out on the roof might have tipped the scales without the heroes too? I don't think Elayne, Nyneave, and Perrin could have gotten past those soldiers without Mat clearing the way.
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Oct 9, 2023 20:15
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Chomposaur posted:I would have liked to see Egwene link with Nynaeve, she still would have felt like poo poo about being used like a battery for a second time but would have had some role in the episode. Altho in the scope of the show Mat didn't really accomplish much either besides stab Rand with the dagger. I guess he indirectly saved Perrin and got the magic shield to him via Uno. Could charitably assume that those seanchan hanging out on the roof might have tipped the scales without the heroes too? I'm going through Season 2 in a watch party with a friend and he said something similar to that. "This is a show made for middle aged women", given the number of 40+ women in prominent roles and hot male himbo eye candy constantly on display. He said he'd definitely recommend it to his mom and his sister to check out. My mother is similarly obsessed with the show and has been telling all her friends to watch it too.
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Oct 9, 2023 20:18
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It's just kind of a basic error and obviously repetitive to make nynaeve do the same beat twice in one episode between elayne and rand. it doesn't even get intensified by happening twice because there's no real space for her to have a heightened reaction the second time, as we're too busy with the whole final boss confrontation and rand-elayne meet-cute of it all. it's weirdest because...there's absolutely no reason she has to fail at healing elayne, narratively? it reads like an obvious "okay stall for time, nynaeve and elayne can't get to the last fight yet," but distance is what the show declares it is (which is fine, it's not generally the kind of show where the action cares much about a sense of space or location), so it doesn't delay or facilitate the two of them getting anywhere. there's a million other ways to play it, like her healing elayne and then failing to heal rand because she is too overwhelmed to be angry. but really anything other than "the same thing twice" woulda been good Valentin fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 20:21
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Chomposaur posted:Altho in the scope of the show Mat didn't really accomplish much either besides stab Rand with the dagger. I guess he indirectly saved Perrin and got the magic shield to him via Uno. Could charitably assume that those seanchan hanging out on the roof might have tipped the scales without the heroes too? I mean.... the cast were badly outnumbered and barely holding their own. It was pretty clear they were going to get crushed sooner or later.
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Oct 9, 2023 20:28
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Chomposaur posted:Could charitably assume that those seanchan hanging out on the roof might have tipped the scales without the heroes too? Those soldiers weren’t ‘hanging out on the roof’. What do you think they were doing up there? They had probably the most important job a soldier could have in that battle if you ask Ishy. I doubt he would have put shlubs on that assignment. So you have a woman with an arrow through her knee being half carried by another who is so terrified she can’t channel. Sure, Mat has a diy dagger staff and Perrin maybe some wolf rage but those 4 aren’t taking out a large group of soldiers on their own. While carrying Elayne and Nyneave. Valentin posted:it's weirdest because...there's absolutely no reason she has to fail at healing elayne, narratively? Sure there is. It’s great character development for Nyneave. You can see the terror on her face and her mind racing. KilGrey fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 20:38
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Nynaeve also has a huge character progression moment: she admits she needs elayne's help.
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Oct 9, 2023 20:48
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that I can see, though I think it shouldn't have come at the cost of nynaeve's competence (elayne comes off as having to remind her of a very basic fact, it doesn't feel like nynaeve reclaiming her competence as a wisdom in the face of adversity, and I just kinda think that sucks). I just think of the two moments, her not being able to heal rand (which also, in its own way, means not being able to heal mat, because now this is His Fault Forever, sorry dude I know you were just feeling a ray of hope for the first time in a long time) is clearly the more interesting and vivid character moment in a lot of ways, but the lasting image of her in the episode is bluescreening over the arrow
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Oct 9, 2023 20:59
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Valentin posted:that I can see, though I think it shouldn't have come at the cost of nynaeve's competence (elayne comes off as having to remind her of a very basic fact, it doesn't feel like nynaeve reclaiming her competence as a wisdom in the face of adversity, and I just kinda think that sucks). Nyneave is at the nadir of the dunning kruger graph. Before she knew all the stuff she didn't know she didn't know, she was supremely confident in a bunch of stuff because being a stubborn woolhead worked in pretty much every situation. Then she goes through the arches, and gets captured by LIandrin for doing exactly the most Nyneave thing ever, and then gets captured AGAIN in Falme (luckily by a warder but still captured) because she keeps doing Nyneave things. She's seen what purposeful magical healing can do and she's still grasping around trying to find something to anchor herself to. She knows she can't go back to the way things were but she doesn't see how to move forward yet either.
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Oct 9, 2023 21:04
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i don't think we're actually supposed to think that nynaeve is incompetent in that scene. nynaeve struggles a lot with the idea of being an aes sedai and letting go of her old identity as a wisdom, as the arches highlight, and her confidence as a healer is supremely justified, as the show reminds us this season when she identifies that liandrin's son is suffering nerve pain and offers a remedy. a beat in the finale where her aes sedai powers fail her but she succeeds by 1) overcoming her own fear and dismay, 2) reaching out to other people and 3) relying on her old core competencies (proving that her identity need not be in question because her past as a wisdom can continue to inform her present, and becoming an aes sedai does not mean no longer being a healer), is i think supposed to be a heroic beat, especially because the arrow is presented as a real and threatening obstacle (again, they're stalled there for a while) that she overcomes, which lets elayne heal rand and ultimately enables ishamael's defeat. it's a beat of heroism before the ultimate ending note of frustration, which is the same thing they do with mat and a little with egwene right before perrin comes in (i think this reading also makes sense because frankly i assume the goal of the scriptwriters is not to feel like they are stalling their third-billed actress in a corner while the plot happens; the arrow business is supposed to be meaningful and the outcome is ultimately nynaeve's success). i just don't think it lands that way at all in how it's set up or delivered, and so comes off ultimately redundant e: VVV like i think we can all agree that's not the reaction the writers wanted, right? you're supposed to be like, wow, nynaeve did it, not "oh god, take the fletching off, wait you have to actually bind the wound, what are you doing, she's gonna bleed out the whole way up." but there was a disconnect between intent and execution here in several ways. Valentin fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Oct 9, 2023 |
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Oct 9, 2023 21:21
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I was laughing so hard at Nynaeve just loving shoving the whole rear end fletching through Elayne's leg. Snap the arrow in half and then push it through, Jesus Christ.
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Oct 9, 2023 21:27
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